The only aspect of that concept we'll be seeing is the fact that it has a V4-- which may not even be new for all we know. All this means is some 2010 Honda will have a V4...
That or the new CBRRRRR will have fairings for wheels! LOL.
[image: View Post]vanion2, on May 15 2009, 09:17 AM, said:
:lurk:
Had the 6th gen VFR and went to Aprilia Tuono and love the Aprilia. It's true something about Italian bikes that give them kinda soul. Everytime I get back from a ride that Tuonno makes me smile and surprises me in a good way. I Just did not like the VTEC and heaviness of the VFR. VFR is good bike just not as much fun. But than again it's got a different purpose. So again not knocking it. If I could afford 2 bikes I would get a VFR for touring and keep my Tuono or get a Super Duke or R1 or something for ripping it up. Again not that the VFR can't go fast....just to me it seemed it was a bit harder to rip it up and felt a little more souless or less sporty. Anyways VFR is great all rounder I just hope the new VFR is lighter, no VTEC, 1000cc, no linked brakes and catered more towards sport riding but with a hard bag option. That's all I really which I had on my Tuono a better bag option, damn plastic tanks ;)
Am I the only one who *does not* want a 1000cc VFR?
The VFR got famous being an all-day, all-arounder bike; super-sport sized yet just comfortable enough to tour on. Since then supersports went from 750 to 600, but the VFR got longer and fatter.
The RC212v seems to be making OK power with it's puny 800cc.
Hell, why not make it 1800cc. with a power seat. and heated cup holders.
"Had the 6th gen VFR and went to Aprilia Tuono and love the Aprilia. It's true something about Italian bikes that give them kinda soul. Everytime I get back from a ride that Tuonno makes me smile and surprises me in a good way. I Just did not like the VTEC and heaviness of the VFR. VFR is good bike just not as much fun. But than again it's got a different purpose. So again not knocking it. If I could afford 2 bikes I would get a VFR for touring and keep my Tuono or get a Super Duke or R1 or something for ripping it up. Again not that the VFR can't go fast....just to me it seemed it was a bit harder to rip it up and felt a little more souless or less sporty. Anyways VFR is great all rounder I just hope the new VFR is lighter, no VTEC, 1000cc, no linked brakes and catered more towards sport riding but with a hard bag option. That's all I really which I had on my Tuono a better bag option, damn plastic tanks wink.gif
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SO YOU WANT A CBR1000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WELL Honda makes that, Captain
[image: View Post]thx1139, on Jun 8 2009, 09:00 PM, said:
Am I the only one who *does not* want a 1000cc VFR?
The VFR got famous being an all-day, all-arounder bike; super-sport sized yet just comfortable enough to tour on. Since then supersports went from 750 to 600, but the VFR got longer and fatter.
The RC212v seems to be making OK power with it's puny 800cc.
Hell, why not make it 1800cc. with a power seat. and heated cup holders.
[grumpy curmudgeon mode -off-]
I don't want more displacement. They can produce better numbers with 800cc of V4. Truth be told I would ideally like her to lose some weight. She tips the scales of comfortable handability for me when trying to muscle her around the garage. If they could shave off just 50 lbs (and I know that is a lot!) and keep everything else on par I think I would be 100% satisfied with that (as opposed to 95%). But that's just me. ;)
As for looks...It took a while for the 6th Gen look to grow on me coming from 600cc super sports so I consider myself flexible as long as they remember to keep function higher than form.
Lightweight supersports aren't required to carry to "real people" in comfort with hard luggage so their frames and, more importantly, subframes can be much lighter. Sure, you can get a 800cc motor to produce crazy horsepower but at what rpm and more importantly what amount of torque and at what real world rpm. And another thing, at what mpg, emissions, and price levels would you like all this?
[image: View Post]thx1139, on Jun 8 2009, 09:00 PM, said:
Am I the only one who *does not* want a 1000cc VFR?
...
The RC212v seems to be making OK power with it's puny 800cc.
I think a 1000c sport-tourer would have some appeal. I'm pretty happy with my 6th gen but I love the power delivery of my VF1000R. A modern version of that engine in a sport-touring rig would be very nice.
But, I'm with you in wanting something more in the supersport direction. In my dream world there would be:
VFR1000F/VFR800F sport-touring bikes, evolution of the current VFR
VFR600R lightweight V4 powered supersport. Done right this bike could shake up the market and make quite a splash in the racing world.
VFR1000R literbike supersport. At this displacement, the V4 has less of an impact with regards to smooth power delivery (those of you with recent GSX-R 1000's know this) so this one might be a harder sell to the public. But, I would love to see the modern day version of the VF1000R.
VFR750R modern day version of the RC30/RC45. As a racer, I really like the 750 but it seems like the market wants 600s or 1000s, Suzuki notwithstanding.
And, yeah, the RC212V puts out plenty of power with 800cc but I'll bet that motor is rebuilt after every race weekend too. :biggrin:
[image: View Post]FotoMoto, on Jun 8 2009, 11:47 PM, said:
Sure, you can get a 800cc motor to produce crazy horsepower but at what rpm and more importantly what amount of torque and at what real world rpm. And another thing, at what mpg, emissions, and price levels would you like all this?
I like RPM!
:wheel: :wheel:
VF500f had a redline of almost 13000, and that was in 1985.
In this bold new millennium, I think it's reasonable to expect torque and revs from a fresh design 800cc V4.
[image: View Post]FotoMoto, on Jun 8 2009, 09:47 PM, said:
Lightweight supersports aren't required to carry to "real people" in comfort with hard luggage so their frames and, more importantly, subframes can be much lighter. Sure, you can get a 800cc motor to produce crazy horsepower but at what rpm and more importantly what amount of torque and at what real world rpm. And another thing, at what mpg, emissions, and price levels would you like all this?
I was averaging 50 mpg on my 02 R6. As for rpms...the redline on that same bike was 15.5k (granted I always shifted around 6k when commuting). Of course, I understand that comfort comes at a cost of weight and realize that the VFR I love is what she is. I can live with that. But if Honda wants to entice me to buy a new bike by making an engine that has a little more umph to it I wouldn't object. Of course if Toro ever makes a kit for the 6th Gen ABS I may not have to worry about it. ;)
Weight watchers for bikes would not hurt the VFR. It is indeed, as the old Bob Wills tune goes, ..."momma's little fatty". I wonder about Honda upping the cc's as most of the rest of the world taxes based on displacement. Besides, as previously mentioned, loosing 50 lbs would help in a lot of areas. Perhaps going to 4 valves all the time is a solution too. My VFR gets the same mpg as my 84 VF1000F except it has less grunt from down low. Of course I am sure Honda does not monitor this site to get their tech advice so they will do what the marketing/money folks tell them is possible. My $.02.
motorhead1977, on Jun 14 2009, 09:58 AM, said: Weight watchers for bikes would not hurt the VFR. It is indeed, as the old Bob Wills tune goes, ..."momma's little fatty".
I thought I was the only one who knew about that song
Ah, it begins anew. Straight from the managing director of Honda Europe. "The first production machine related to the V4 Concept Bike will reach the market in the first half of 2010. And there will be more to come." Sounds like Honda's skunk works actually has something in mind.
I hope designer Kohama will shape it into a pleasant form. I like his resume so far...NS400R (1985), VFR750F (1990 and �94), NR750 (1989), CBR900RR (1992-2004), RC211V (2002) and CBR1000RR (2004-2008). We'll see...
Honda call Busy Little Shop before you decide on the next V4... I knows what you needs... don't make
me come over there... after all I know the location of secret R&D building...
“We know people think this bike is going to be a replacement for the VFR800 and the Blackbird but we do not see this bike as a replacement for anything. We see it as an all-new breed of machine, something very special.”
It is going to be a 1200cc V4 powered DN-01, or Fury, or maybe even something worse. I can't think of anything now, but Honda sure is clever with coming up with crap out of left field that nobody wants (except Skuuter). Watch.
The VFR will wither on the vine until they run out of their back log of parts for it, just like the Super Hawk, RC51, Blackbird, etc
[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Jun 20 2009, 06:28 AM, said:
�We know people think this bike is going to be a replacement for the VFR800 and the Blackbird but we do not see this bike as a replacement for anything. We see it as an all-new breed of machine, something very special.�
It is going to be a 1200cc V4 powered DN-01, or Fury, or maybe even something worse. I can't think of anything now, but Honda sure is clever with coming up with crap out of left field that nobody wants (except Skuuter). Watch.
The VFR will wither on the vine until they run out of their back log of parts for it, just like the Super Hawk, RC51, Blackbird, etc
Actually I think you're both right and wrong. They will probably ditch the VFR name for something more "modern", and possibly release the bike we want - a Sports Tourer -after they release something more on the hypersports side initially.
In essence I think it means they see V4 engines as a market differentiator from what is out there today, and since most of GP is V4 too they then have a direct link between prototypes and production.
I think the first released bike will be in the order of $25,000 (Australian), or more simply the premium end of the market. But yeah, not a "VFR" in the sense we're used to.
$25k? I think Honda's marketing people would know that most riders won't pay that for a Honda unless they're IoM racers who are racing to win... you can get some good sportsbikes and seriously fast Sport/Tour bikes for $20k. That extra $5k gets you into Aprilia and Ducati territory.
I think speculation about a sub-$20k FJR/ZX-14R competitor might be on the money, but I hope it's going to be a serious sportsbike*
* I'm wondering if Honda plans to go with 1200cc in anticipation of rule changes to allow 1200cc four cylinder motors in WSB? As with the 750/1000cc rules for 4cyl/2cyl, eventually the big twins will get too fast for the fours, and the rules will have to be changed to suit... although that is probably some years away.
Man, imagine a 1200cc V4 built to CBR performance specs... no cross-plane Yamaha would get near it. The 2009 CBR1000RR chassis is certainly up to that sort of power.
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Jun 22 2009, 06:59 AM, said:
I'll believe it when I see it. And if it turns out to be cool, I'll just have to cry because I already have a bunch of bikes.
I'm with Seb on this one. I still have not seen the new Aprilla RSV4 ???????
When it's in the show room then I'll buy one.......that way Seb can have yet another picture of himself on another bike. :biggrin: (Sorry buddie just had to get that in.)
I'm hoping for more bottom end and a bit less weight, 110 hp is OK if you don't have to go to a zillion RPM to get it. If the HP/weight ratio go too high we (here is Quebec) get zinged 1200$/yr for plates. :blink: Yes you read it right! The present power-weight ratio keeps the VFR in the cruiser category for plates, so I'm hoping the new one also falls in there too.
[image: View Post]DDO-VFR, on Jun 23 2009, 07:11 AM, said:
I'm hoping for more bottom end and a bit less weight, 110 hp is OK if you don't have to go to a zillion RPM to get it. If the HP/weight ratio go too high we (here is Quebec) get zinged 1200$/yr for plates. :blink: Yes you read it right! The present power-weight ratio keeps the VFR in the cruiser category for plates, so I'm hoping the new one also falls in there too.
BI
I'm with Seb and a few others. I hate to have to get rid of any bike I own just to make space for this one, if it appears.
[image: View Post]VF1000R, on Jun 8 2009, 08:53 PM, said:
VFR750R modern day version of the RC30/RC45. As a racer, I really like the 750 but it seems like the market wants 600s or 1000s, Suzuki notwithstanding.
It's not the market. It is the fact that there is no series that races a 750. When the RC's were out, Superbikes were 750cc. Now they are 1000cc. Why would they bother to do a 750?? Nobody wants them. They wouldn't sell.
Well, I'd want one, but yeah, I guess the two of us would be happy, lol??
Personally, I can't see them making a bike to compete with either the CBR600 or the CBR1000.
[image: View Post]poconovfr, on Jun 22 2009, 07:15 AM, said:
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Jun 22 2009, 06:59 AM, said:
I'll believe it when I see it. And if it turns out to be cool, I'll just have to cry because I already have a bunch of bikes.
I'm with Seb on this one. I still have not seen the new Aprilla RSV4 ???????
When it's in the show room then I'll buy one.......that way Seb can have yet another picture of himself on another bike. :biggrin: (Sorry buddie just had to get that in.)
**Warning WSBK spoiler**
I saw it Sunday...Getting a podium spot in WSBK, Donnington race 1. Biaggi and even Nakano are doing well on those this year. The perfect race started out as race 2 with the texan leading and the V4 shadowing him with the other V4 in 5th...until Biaggi tucked it.
I agree as well. I have one word - "insurance."
1000 CC sport bike equals higher insurance premiums. I'm happy with the 800cc bike.
[image: View Post]vanion2, on Jun 9 2009, 03:16 AM, said:
[image: View Post]thx1139, on Jun 8 2009, 09:00 PM, said:
Am I the only one who *does not* want a 1000cc VFR?
The VFR got famous being an all-day, all-arounder bike; super-sport sized yet just comfortable enough to tour on. Since then supersports went from 750 to 600, but the VFR got longer and fatter.
The RC212v seems to be making OK power with it's puny 800cc.
Hell, why not make it 1800cc. with a power seat. and heated cup holders.
[grumpy curmudgeon mode -off-]
I don't want more displacement. They can produce better numbers with 800cc of V4. Truth be told I would ideally like her to lose some weight. She tips the scales of comfortable handability for me when trying to muscle her around the garage. If they could shave off just 50 lbs (and I know that is a lot!) and keep everything else on par I think I would be 100% satisfied with that (as opposed to 95%). But that's just me. ;)
As for looks...It took a while for the 6th Gen look to grow on me coming from 600cc super sports so I consider myself flexible as long as they remember to keep function higher than form.
They take flash in "news flash" quite literaly as it has already been withdrawn from the website. Weird.
Honda has previous form on this - prior to its announcement, pics of the 2009 CBR1000RR were put online on official Honda pages, then taken down within a day. They need to ditch their marketing/web department...
Or maybe that's their gimmick to generate interest?
[image: View Post]timmythecop, on Jul 2 2009, 05:08 PM, said:
does this video make you optimistic or pessimistic about the new V4 bike?
If that is really Honda's corporate vision then I am optimistic. That is 180 degrees from the US company I used to work for. Risk taking was smothered because of the possibility of failure, cya is the current corporate vision.
timmythecop, on Jul 2 2009, 08:08 PM, said: does this video make you optimistic or pessimistic about the new V4 bike?
Worked for me... Where do I place my order?
Oh, and an application to work for Honda too.
That's engineering in a nut shell. How many of our greatest advances have been a result of failures?
Any company that recognizes this and embraces it will always come out the winner in the end. :fing02:
[image: View Post]poconovfr, on Jun 22 2009, 01:15 PM, said:
I'm with Seb on this one. I still have not seen the new Aprilla RSV4 ???????
Superchode and myself were admiring one yesterday sitting on the showroomfloor at a local dealer. I think it looks even better in person than from the pictures. Pricetag? €22.900. To put things in perspective: a VFR ABS is €16.000. The dealer also had a nice discount on a Duc 1098R €40.000€34.000. I guess nobody want them anymore and hold out intill the 1198R hits the showroom floor.
Me, I think I'll stick to my 3rd gen for a while :biggrin:
FotoMoto, on May 13 2009, 06:25 AM, said: Quote: "The finished V4-powered machine will be seen in autumn 2009. The bike will be on sale in spring 2010."
You can now sign up to win a one of the first test rides on the V4 and attend the press launch: click
Well, I signed up anyway, just to see what happens.
frankly Timmy the video did not change my opinion of Honda.
I still think that they can't/won't see the failures that they have had.
The Vtec generation VFR was not a success, it was a failure.
And it kind of looks like Honda still hasn't figured out what to do.
The fury???
the dn-01???
nothing in new in either the middleweight or full liter classes of sporttouring?
No useful standards for everyday use???
No useful standards for rookies to ride???
I'll not make a final decision on the next VFR(s) until they debut and I can see them in the plastic.
[image: View Post]JES_VFR, on Aug 11 2009, 10:57 AM, said:
The Vtec generation VFR was not a success, it was a failure.
And it kind of looks like Honda still hasn't figured out what to do.
The fury???
the dn-01???
nothing in new in either the middleweight or full liter classes of sporttouring?
No useful standards for everyday use???
No useful standards for rookies to ride???
No offense, JES, but I don't know how anyone can say the 6th gen VFR is a failure. As far as I can tell the 6th gen has sold well and has been a commercial success, but of course that gen has also been on the market much longer than previous gen's were. If it were a failure I think Honda would have killed it off a couple years ago, as they did with the SuperHawk and 919. Sure the 6th gen got VTEC and chain-driven cams, but for its market niche I think it's done pretty well.
I'm not thrilled with Honda's direction over the last few years, but then again I don't own stock in the company and there are plenty of other great bikes to choose from, so it's no big deal to me. I do have to give them some credit, however, for stepping outside the mainstream with bikes like the DN-01 and Fury.
As for your 'standards' comment, I'm with you 100%. I believe Honda makes useful standards and other bikes for new riders, but they don't sell most of them here. I wish they'd import the "new" 599, which looks like a terrific bike, but outside of a few select models (ex: Suz. SV650) middleweight nakeds don't sell well in the US.
End of thread · 54 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 8 Feb 2011
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