Holy Crap!

Hey guys! Long time no talk. I am a little behind the curve here, but I love the new VFR. I see everyone point, but this is going to be a killer machine. I guess all I have to do not is sell my K1200GT. Anyway, I look forward to getting back into the Honda community.

[image: View Post]Aurelius, on 30 November 2009 - 06:07 PM, said:

Hey guys! Long time no talk. I am a little behind the curve here, but I love the new VFR. I see everyone point, but this is going to be a killer machine. I guess all I have to do is sell my K1200GT and both my kidneys. Anyway, I look forward to getting back into the Honda community.



fixed for you

:goofy: LMFAO

There's a new VFR? :blink:

[image: View Post]FotoMoto, on 30 November 2009 - 08:42 PM, said:

There's a new VFR? :blink:

Nah, that's just another rumor from MCN. :laugh:

[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 30 November 2009 - 07:07 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Aurelius, on 30 November 2009 - 06:07 PM, said:

Hey guys! Long time no talk. I am a little behind the curve here, but I love the new VFR. I see everyone point, but this is going to be a killer machine. I guess all I have to do is sell my K1200GT and both my kidneys. Anyway, I look forward to getting back into the Honda community.



fixed for you


LOL. You are about right. 15k plus motorcycles seems to be the trend. They are charging by the pound, obviously.

[image: View Post]FotoMoto, on 30 November 2009 - 08:42 PM, said:

There's a new VFR? :blink:


That's what I said.

[image: View Post]TimC, on 30 November 2009 - 10:41 PM, said:

[image: View Post]FotoMoto, on 30 November 2009 - 08:42 PM, said:

There's a new VFR? :blink:

Nah, that's just another rumor from MCN. :laugh:


That was the last I heard. I think it's going to be an amazing machine.

Quote

That was the last I heard. I think it's going to be an amazing machine.

So get one asap, and regale us with tales of how great if is.
Give test rides! :beer:

The engine appears spec wise to be awesome.
By the same specs it's a heavy bitch.
Expensive too.

Ball 1, strike 2. Will it be a hit? :unsure:
Nevermind, I don't care about baseball. :wheel:

I think most of the hardcore vfr owners from old wanted a liter bike, not a 1200 monstrosity. Wanted a return to the gear driven cams, lose the vtec, just make it bulletproof and a great pulling engine. Then nothing too crazy just no more wieght, its 800 predessors were heavy, but they handle rather well sure footed. I dont remember anybody in the vfr community asking for a shaftie? We just wanted the same great all around bike with a great v-4 engine, I love my 98 for a reason its a great bike! Instead we get pretty much priced out of the market from what we paid with the last 4 generations - with a bike that is, bigger, heavier, more stuff we never knew existed that adds wieght and it doesnt blow the doors off the competition? - that sum it up?

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 01 December 2009 - 12:41 AM, said:

I think most of the hardcore vfr owners from old wanted a liter bike, not a 1200 monstrosity. Wanted a return to the gear driven cams, lose the vtec, just make it bulletproof and a great pulling engine. Then nothing too crazy just no more wieght, its 800 predessors were heavy, but they handle rather well sure footed. I dont remember anybody in the vfr community asking for a shaftie? We just wanted the same great all around bike with a great v-4 engine, I love my 98 for a reason its a great bike! Instead we get pretty much priced out of the market from what we paid with the last 4 generations - with a bike that is, bigger, heavier, more stuff we never knew existed that adds wieght and it doesnt blow the doors off the competition? - that sum it up?


Sums it up perfectly for me. What it does prove is Honda's arrogance in presuming to tell US what bike WE want, instead of listening to what VFR owners have been saying.

[image: View Post]rc36Honda, on 01 December 2009 - 01:05 AM, said:

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 01 December 2009 - 12:41 AM, said:

I think most of the hardcore vfr owners from old wanted a liter bike, not a 1200 monstrosity. Wanted a return to the gear driven cams, lose the vtec, just make it bulletproof and a great pulling engine. Then nothing too crazy just no more wieght, its 800 predessors were heavy, but they handle rather well sure footed. I dont remember anybody in the vfr community asking for a shaftie? We just wanted the same great all around bike with a great v-4 engine, I love my 98 for a reason its a great bike! Instead we get pretty much priced out of the market from what we paid with the last 4 generations - with a bike that is, bigger, heavier, more stuff we never knew existed that adds wieght and it doesnt blow the doors off the competition? - that sum it up?


Sums it up perfectly for me. What it does prove is Honda's arrogance in presuming to tell US what bike WE want, instead of listening to what VFR owners have been saying.


Mmmm, well stated blokes.

...I still need to ride one first..... :rolleyes: :cool:

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 01 December 2009 - 11:00 AM, said:

...I still need to ride one first..... :rolleyes: :cool:


Skuuter, what are you riding this week? Has that DN-01 disappeared from your garage?

[image: View Post]dendron, on 01 December 2009 - 11:29 AM, said:

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 01 December 2009 - 11:00 AM, said:

...I still need to ride one first..... :rolleyes: :cool:


Skuuter, what are you riding this week? Has that DN-01 disappeared from your garage?


...Yes it has....Wife hasn't had a Bike for a little while, so I got a matchin' pair of Honda 750 Aero cruisers..... :rolleyes: :fing02: :beer:

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 01 December 2009 - 11:38 AM, said:

[image: View Post]dendron, on 01 December 2009 - 11:29 AM, said:

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 01 December 2009 - 11:00 AM, said:

...I still need to ride one first..... :rolleyes: :cool:


Skuuter, what are you riding this week? Has that DN-01 disappeared from your garage?


...Yes it has....Wife hasn't had a Bike for a little while, so I got a matchin' pair of Honda 750 Aero cruisers..... :rolleyes: :fing02: :beer:


Amazing! Comfy I guess, but don't those floorboards get sparkly in those curvy bits all around you?

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 01 December 2009 - 12:41 AM, said:

I think most of the hardcore vfr owners from old wanted a liter bike, not a 1200 monstrosity. Wanted a return to the gear driven cams, lose the vtec, just make it bulletproof and a great pulling engine. Then nothing too crazy just no more wieght, its 800 predessors were heavy, but they handle rather well sure footed. I dont remember anybody in the vfr community asking for a shaftie? We just wanted the same great all around bike with a great v-4 engine, I love my 98 for a reason its a great bike! Instead we get pretty much priced out of the market from what we paid with the last 4 generations - with a bike that is, bigger, heavier, more stuff we never knew existed that adds wieght and it doesnt blow the doors off the competition? - that sum it up?


I think you have to consider the notion that the need/wants of the actual "buying" market have changed. Change can be hard, and inevitably there will be those that feel left behind.

Personally, I like the direction they've taken the bike, and speculate that I'm not alone. Still to early to tell of course, but I think this bike will be as good in it's niche as previous models have been... :twocents:

But maybe I'm just not a "hardcore" VFR owner... :mellow:

[image: View Post]Baketech, on 01 December 2009 - 11:48 AM, said:

I think you have to consider the notion that the need/wants of the actual "buying" market have changed. Change can be hard, and inevitably there will be those that feel left behind.

Personally, I like the direction they've taken the bike, and speculate that I'm not alone. Still to early to tell of course, but I think this bike will be as good in it's niche as previous models have been... :twocents:

But maybe I'm just not a "hardcore" VFR owner... :mellow:


Agreed! They are def going after the BMW market, with the associated price tag.
The styling may look a bit foreign but in a few yrs from now it will still look fresh, and recognizable.
Personally, a 1000cc bike splitting the middle would have been my wish, but hey, there are a few other 1 liter options out there like the V-strom, FZ-1, etc.

[image: View Post]rc36Honda, on 01 December 2009 - 01:05 AM, said:

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 01 December 2009 - 12:41 AM, said:

I think most of the hardcore vfr owners from old wanted a liter bike, not a 1200 monstrosity. Wanted a return to the gear driven cams, lose the vtec, just make it bulletproof and a great pulling engine. Then nothing too crazy just no more wieght, its 800 predessors were heavy, but they handle rather well sure footed. I dont remember anybody in the vfr community asking for a shaftie? We just wanted the same great all around bike with a great v-4 engine, I love my 98 for a reason its a great bike! Instead we get pretty much priced out of the market from what we paid with the last 4 generations - with a bike that is, bigger, heavier, more stuff we never knew existed that adds wieght and it doesnt blow the doors off the competition? - that sum it up?


Sums it up perfectly for me. What it does prove is Honda's arrogance in presuming to tell US what bike WE want, instead of listening to what VFR owners have been saying.


Prove? Based on what people say in a forum like this? On the contrary, it is arrogant for the small fraction of owners who are forum members and even smaller fraction of owners who demand every feature under the sun for the price of dirt to presume what the majority may want, let alone what extensive market research was conducted by the manufacturer.

Does Honda or any other manufacturer make mistakes in estimating the prototypical market? Of course. But Honda's track record is such that it has made them the number one motorcycle company on the planet. One doesn't get there by making stupid business decisions for every bike introduced (and surprise! the design of the new VFR is a business decision). A smart, business savvy manufacturer will target a design to meet the large center of the distribution curve, that is where the volume and profits are. Time will tell if Honda made the right decisions with the new VFR.

Targeting the fringes of the distribution curve is what the high end Italian bike makers do. They add endless farkles and bling to their bikes which doesn't actually do much for the rider other than stroke the ego, but it does raise the sticker price and/or lower their profit margin. It also guarantees their bikes are always low volume sellers, which of course means they don't make much money. Name any high end Italian bike maker and you'll find they have been in or near bankruptcy in the last decade. Some have disappeared altogether. Even Ducati would be extinct had it not been for TPG to come to their rescue in the mid 90's, and Aprilia bet the farm on MotoGP and lost out big time, hence are now owned by mainstream scooter company Piaggio (who by the way seem to be the only Italian bike company with plenty of money, notice the correlation?). Italian high end bike manufacturers make wonderful designs which (most of the time) are easy on the eyes, but they are horrible business managers.

I don't have pony in this race and I'm not out to defend Honda or any other manufacturer. But some people need a reality check. People who make such lopsided demands and think they know best should try to run a manufacturing business, any manufacturing business. You'll find that it ain't as simple and easy as you think it is.

[image: View Post]dendron, on 01 December 2009 - 11:45 AM, said:

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 01 December 2009 - 11:38 AM, said:

[image: View Post]dendron, on 01 December 2009 - 11:29 AM, said:

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 01 December 2009 - 11:00 AM, said:

...I still need to ride one first..... :rolleyes: :cool:


Skuuter, what are you riding this week? Has that DN-01 disappeared from your garage?


...Yes it has....Wife hasn't had a Bike for a little while, so I got a matchin' pair of Honda 750 Aero cruisers..... :rolleyes: :fing02: :beer:


Amazing! Comfy I guess, but don't those floorboards get sparkly in those curvy bits all around you?


High-mounted forward Foot Pegs on the Aero 750....You'll actually run outa' Tire before a peg touchdown on this particular Bike....if You feel/hear a Foot Peg scrape, better get ready to "abort mission" on an Aero..... :goofy:

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 01 December 2009 - 12:05 PM, said:

Prove? Based on what people say in a forum like this? On the contrary, it is arrogant for the small fraction of owners who are forum members and even smaller fraction of owners who demand every feature under the sun for the price of dirt to presume what the majority may want, let alone what extensive market research was conducted by the manufacturer.

Does Honda or any other manufacturer make mistakes in estimating the prototypical market? Of course. But Honda's track record is such that it has made them the number one motorcycle company on the planet. One doesn't get there by making stupid business decisions for every bike introduced (and surprise! the design of the new VFR is a business decision). A smart, business savvy manufacturer will target a design to meet the large center of the distribution curve, that is where the volume and profits are. Time will tell if Honda made the right decisions with the new VFR.

Targeting the fringes of the distribution curve is what the high end Italian bike makers do. They add endless farkles and bling to their bikes which doesn't actually do much for the rider other than stroke the ego, but it does raise the sticker price and/or lower their profit margin. It also guarantees their bikes are always low volume sellers, which of course means they don't make much money. Name any high end Italian bike maker and you'll find they have been in or near bankruptcy in the last decade. Some have disappeared altogether. Even Ducati would be extinct had it not been for TPG to come to their rescue in the mid 90's, and Aprilia bet the farm on MotoGP and lost out big time, hence are now owned by mainstream scooter company Piaggio (who by the way seem to be the only Italian bike company with plenty of money, notice the correlation?). Italian high end bike manufacturers make wonderful designs which (most of the time) are easy on the eyes, but they are horrible business managers.

I don't have pony in this race and I'm not out to defend Honda or any other manufacturer. But some people need a reality check. People who make such lopsided demands and think they know best should try to run a manufacturing business, any manufacturing business. You'll find that it ain't as simple and easy as you think it is.

Not sure what your point is, went off on a tangent with the Italian thing - not sure where that was going? Fact is market research did not produce the vtec! How do you research somthing that did not exist in the market, that was a business decision based on Japanese governmental influence and global noise and emissions laws - I have seen the honda memos about that. And it really did nothing really to enhance the bikes performance - at it was orginally marketed as some kind of performance enhancement at first, but it did not take long for buyers to get wise! Lets face it CBR's and Cruisers outsold vtecs! The whole notion about this bike being a product of extensive market research conducted by the manufacturer, really? Who did they target, where are the surveys? Nobody has said a word about being contacted by Honda for product surveys?

A lopsided demand is somthing like give us a fire breathing dragon with 200 hp and weighs in at 300lbs, sigle sided swing arm to boot. Nope they used to sell a vfr 1000 - featured it 2 days ago, its not like they dont have the experience. A liter bike tuned for sport touring riding and for lots of miles, like the vtec, like all the other vfrs before that, (yea its a sturdy engine) or the 5th gen, just a few more cc's. A slightly updated chassis to carry it and keep the overall fit of the bike, the same ergos, the same wheelbase, close to the same wieght, perhaps less it is afterall a sport touring bike, more sport than touring.


I have been at this vfrd thing a long time and I have just noticed alot of comments over the years, and have gathered up a general idea for what most people were saying here. Was it market research nope? I never bought a vtec because I did not think it was significantly better then the 98 I already had! I will be honest I wasnt expecting another tour de techno bike with automatic transmission, dual clutch, 1200cc's, shaft drive, come on this is so completely different - its a v4 but thats really it. I am not sure how we went from 800 cc's to 1200cc and all that other stuff? Market research - really? I am not so sure about that.

I am just saying! I dont hate the vfr1200 like some people here, its just out of my league price wise! Its marketed for a different type of rider than what I am. I dont know I will have to actually ride one to figure out what I really think. I did own a busa after all! I just want to talk about it, it wasnt ment to be negatively slanted if you will. I dont remember saying anything truely negative, perhaps honest is all. If I felt that bad about it I surely never would have changed the vfrd logo for it, I am certainly invested in it - its a new bike its brand new and well we will just have to wait and see wont we.

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 01 December 2009 - 02:52 PM, said:

I am just saying! I dont hate the vfr1200 like some people here, its just out of my league price wise! Its marketed for a different type of rider than what I am. I dont know I will have to actually ride one to figure out what I really think. I did own a busa after all! I just want to talk about it, it wasnt ment to be negatively slanted if you will. I dont remember saying anything truely negative, perhaps honest is all. If I felt that bad about it I surely never would have changed the vfrd logo for it, I am certainly invested in it - its a new bike its brand new and well we will just have to wait and see wont we.


YEP, what I keep sayin'... :fing02: In 40 Years of ridin', I've ridden and owned a lota' Motorcycles. Lotsa' Brands, and Lotsa' Types. I really think this is gonna' be a really fantastic Motorcycle. All of the pieces are there, and Honda's engineering usually does a great job of combinin' them into a Great Bike. Having ridden the Kawasaki Concours 1400, I really think this is gonna' be more in that segment of Bike. Doesn't mean it can't be "flicked" through twisties, because the Conny can be flicked also (made several spirited passes up and down Monteagle Mountain on two different ones). Personally, I like the near zero maintenance of shaft drive, and other bits and pieces included in the new VFR package. I like change...not to say I don't like Old Classics, because I do, but Motorcycle Manufacturing Companies have to keep playing to the next generations, using the newest ideas to stay in the hunt....I think Honda has a winner here in those respects. My personal approvals and opinions will have to wait until the long Test Ride, but I've been doin' this long enough that seldom I miss by much when it looks this good on paper...it's obviously not a CBR, but Honda sells those too. What my intuition says it's gonna' be is another Mile Marker Motorcycle for Honda, and quite possibly the best Sport Tourer VFR ever to date...We will see...until then, Half Full VFR Glass is better than Half Empty...Enjoyin' Motorcycles is a State-Of-Mind....acquire it, and even 50cc Scooters are FUN, and so are all of the Participants in this Sport..... :fing02: :beer:

Well, it's entirely possible that Papa Honda has another bike up their sleeve (or hiding in their pants) for later. Granted, the VFR1200 is now "official". But it's obviously big and expensive (too much so for me - I'd buy a Honda Fit for that price, and go back to owning a car!)

Maybe there's a VFR800 or some other such displacement to come out? I wonder what they'd base the engine off of, though. Anyway, pure conjecture on my part, to add to the swirling conjecture.

And no offense to those with low post counts, but do realize this is a thriving site with lots of user input, opinions, etc. that have aggregated over years.

Thus, there's a current of thought and opinion that isn't readily apparent to those who haven't been here as long. Note, that people will remind you of that ;-)

Well, according to the poll in this forum, the majority of members are actually pleased with Honda's design decisions. I stand in that majority. I hope for those in the minority that Honda can come up with a suitable substitute in the near future. I went to a BMW K1200GT because I wanted a bigger bike. This new VFR will be absolutely perfect for the Florida straights and the occasional trip to N. Georgia. I have missed my Honda.

[image: View Post]VFR4Lee, on 01 December 2009 - 12:20 AM, said:

Quote

That was the last I heard. I think it's going to be an amazing machine.

So get one asap, and regale us with tales of how great if is.
Give test rides! :beer:

The engine appears spec wise to be awesome.
By the same specs it's a heavy bitch.
Expensive too.

Ball 1, strike 2. Will it be a hit? :unsure:
Nevermind, I don't care about baseball. :wheel:


Will do Lee. I can't wait!

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 01 December 2009 - 12:41 AM, said:

I think most of the hardcore vfr owners from old wanted a liter bike, not a 1200 monstrosity. Wanted a return to the gear driven cams, lose the vtec, just make it bulletproof and a great pulling engine. Then nothing too crazy just no more wieght, its 800 predessors were heavy, but they handle rather well sure footed. I dont remember anybody in the vfr community asking for a shaftie? We just wanted the same great all around bike with a great v-4 engine, I love my 98 for a reason its a great bike! Instead we get pretty much priced out of the market from what we paid with the last 4 generations - with a bike that is, bigger, heavier, more stuff we never knew existed that adds wieght and it doesnt blow the doors off the competition? - that sum it up?


I hear ya, and I understand where you are coming from HS. Unfortunately, the motorcycle industry seems to be headed in the exact opposite direction. It's all about displacement and cutting edge technology. My BMW has a shaft drive, and I have mixed emotions about this piece. I just hope Honda did a better job designing theirs than BMW. I personally feel this bike will blow the doors of the competition. When we talk price, we should think TCO for those of us who do not care to service their own equipment. My 6k service on the BMW was $350. :blink:

The new VFR will not be a success.

Why, because I like the beast, other than MPG, and I'm really not sure what that will really turn out to be.

My taste in motorcycles has run somewhat counter to the trend in this country for close to 20 years, other than liking my big GS.

The VFR is not a touring bike and it is not a sport bike, what it is just does not sell well here. However, I love that type of bike, just like I loved my R1100RS and my Vtec VFR, once again the rest of the country did not, and they both sat in the show rooms.

The new VFR will have a so so initial run, then it will sit in the back of the dealers display space as the touring version, the ST replacement, and the CBR's sell in steady numbers.

Thank you, Honda, for building it. :fing02:

[image: View Post]rad, on 01 December 2009 - 05:44 PM, said:

The new VFR will not be a success.

Why, because I like the beast, other than MPG, and I'm really not sure what that will really turn out to be.

My taste in motorcycles has run somewhat counter to the trend in this country for close to 20 years, other than liking my big GS.

The VFR is not a touring bike and it is not a sport bike, what it is just does not sell well here. However, I love that type of bike, just like I loved my R1100RS and my Vtec VFR, once again the rest of the country did not, and they both sat in the show rooms.

The new VFR will have a so so initial run, then it will sit in the back of the dealers display space as the touring version, the ST replacement, and the CBR's sell in steady numbers.

Thank you, Honda, for building it. :fing02:


............. :goofy:

I think it's going to be a terrific bike, just not what I'm looking for right now. I'm going to keep my '98 VFR because I love it so much and can't stand to think of getting rid of it, look for a low mileage BMW LT to add to the garage for two-up touring , and maybe even pick up a Ducati Multistrada 1200 for fun if I can afford one. Those three will pretty much cover my interests. Oh, wait. Then there's the BMW GS models, and the...

[image: View Post]Aurelius, on 01 December 2009 - 05:31 PM, said:

...My 6k service on the BMW was $350. :blink:

And that only included checking the oil level and the tire pressure! Posted Image

[image: View Post]TimC, on 30 November 2009 - 10:41 PM, said:

[image: View Post]FotoMoto, on 30 November 2009 - 08:42 PM, said:

There's a new VFR? :blink:

Nah, that's just another rumor from MCN. :laugh:

Speaking of which, MCN were rather underwhelmed by their extended test of the VFR1200F.

[image: View Post]Baketech, on 01 December 2009 - 11:48 AM, said:

But maybe I'm just not a "hardcore" VFR owner... :mellow:

Yeah, I must not be either since I like my 6th gen and think it's the best looking VFR. Did I ask for VTEC, no, but I wanted a 6th gen and they all have it. Honestly it never really bothers me at all. All we've heard about is how "hardcore" or "real" VFR owners didn't get what they wanted. Well, they haven't gotten what they wanted for a long time now. Whoever "they" are should be used to disappointment by now.

[image: View Post]rufrydrsc2, on 01 December 2009 - 06:57 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Baketech, on 01 December 2009 - 11:48 AM, said:

But maybe I'm just not a "hardcore" VFR owner... :mellow:

Yeah, I must not be either since I like my 6th gen and think it's the best looking VFR. Did I ask for VTEC, no, but I wanted a 6th gen and they all have it. Honestly it never really bothers me at all. All we've heard about is how "hardcore" or "real" VFR owners didn't get what they wanted. Well, they haven't gotten what they wanted for a long time now. Whoever "they" are should be used to disappointment by now.


:laugh: LMAO!!! :goofy:

:+1:

Some great news... if it finds it way to the states....

"The company have also announced the bike will come with a three year warranty and increased servicing intervals of 8,000 miles, or annually, after the initial 600 mile �running in� service."

Article...

[image: View Post]Aurelius, on 02 December 2009 - 11:45 PM, said:

Some great news... if it finds it way to the states....

"The company have also announced the bike will come with a three year warranty and increased servicing intervals of 8,000 miles, or annually, after the initial 600 mile �running in� service."

Article...


8000 mile servicing? I hope that doesn't include valve adjust. :blink:

[image: View Post]UFO, on 03 December 2009 - 12:09 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Aurelius, on 02 December 2009 - 11:45 PM, said:

Some great news... if it finds it way to the states....

"The company have also announced the bike will come with a three year warranty and increased servicing intervals of 8,000 miles, or annually, after the initial 600 mile �running in� service."

Article...


8000 mile servicing? I hope that doesn't include valve adjust. :blink:


I wonder what the recommended oil is if they're planning on getting 8000 miles out of it.... it only takes 4L. Personally I don't mind spending a bit of money to change it more often to protect my engine.

[image: View Post]phobe, on 03 December 2009 - 10:30 AM, said:

[image: View Post]UFO, on 03 December 2009 - 12:09 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Aurelius, on 02 December 2009 - 11:45 PM, said:

Some great news... if it finds it way to the states....

"The company have also announced the bike will come with a three year warranty and increased servicing intervals of 8,000 miles, or annually, after the initial 600 mile �running in� service."

Article...


8000 mile servicing? I hope that doesn't include valve adjust. :blink:


I wonder what the recommended oil is if they're planning on getting 8000 miles out of it.... it only takes 4L. Personally I don't mind spending a bit of money to change it more often to protect my engine.


Service interval on my K1200GT is 6k and on my SUV 10k miles. I don't lose much sleep over it myself. Is there some particular reason you have reservations in extended service intervals?

LOL, does anyone read their service manual now? 8,000 mile oil changes are honda spec for the 6th gen as well. Personally I do 10,000 mile with Amsoil.

[image: View Post]rc36Honda, on 01 December 2009 - 01:05 AM, said:

Sums it up perfectly for me. What it does prove is Honda's arrogance in presuming to tell US what bike WE want, instead of listening to what VFR owners have been saying.


For your consideration...
Honda didn't make the VFR1200 primarily for the existing owner base. Recall that the VFR was a corporate "statement"/flagship about how great the technology was. It's aimed at the Acura car/BMW bike crowd who don't mind paying for all the gee-gaws. $16k is not an insurmountable price point to existing high end beemer owners. Notice any subtle design similarities to late model Acura TL's? I'm sure that's not by accident.
[image: Posted Image]

Looking for Honda hypersports bikes? The CBRR line provides until something else comes along. Want a hypersports V4? Aprilia

[image: View Post]rc36Honda, on 01 December 2009 - 01:05 AM, said:

Sums it up perfectly for me. What it does prove is Honda's arrogance in presuming to tell US what bike WE want, instead of listening to what VFR owners have been saying.


ROFL, ironically this post follows right along with the arrogant attitude many people seem to have. The only thing it proves is the arrogance to think that Honda gives half a damn what YOU (not directed at rc36honda) think about the bike they have came out with. They, like any other manufacturer, watch market trends and try to stay innovative while making a product that appeals to a mass customer base. Has Honda asked anyone on this website, or any other for that matter, what they thought about the 6th gen? They don't care if anyone on here likes VTEC. If they did they wouldn't have continued producing it for 7 years. It seems that Honda is content with the VFR not selling millions. Like it has been said before, it is their showcase and like it or not IT WILL SELL. They seem content with it being a limited production, and honestly that's one reason I think they are so cool. I don't want a bike that everyone has. There is no pleasing everyone all of the time. The number of 6th gen owners that sold their new bike to buy a 5th gen because of harboring such a hatred for the changes is minuscule at best. It's amusing to read all the comments about how Honda hasn't listened to them, and how this (along with the last few generations) will be the end for the VFR line. I just wonder if the doomsdayers will ever get over themselves and quiet down. What Honda has been telling you for years is if you are looking for a bike reminiscent of what the original VFR was designed as, look elsewhere. You are not traveling in the same direction that they are, and they aren't losing sleep over it.

[image: View Post]KoshN, on 04 December 2009 - 06:16 AM, said:

Looking for Honda hypersports bikes? The CBRR line provides until something else comes along. Want a hypersports V4? Aprilia

:+1: to the millionth power.

[image: View Post]rufrydrsc2, on 05 December 2009 - 07:24 PM, said:

What Honda has been telling you for years is if you are looking for a bike reminiscent of what the original VFR was designed as, look elsewhere. You are not traveling in the same direction that they are, and they aren't losing sleep over it.

Um, hello, does the name "EDSEL" ring a bell??

Attributing omniscience to any manufacturer based on history, size, budget or any other number of erroneous factors is something that experienced industry analysts have done as well as fallible forum fulminators. The industry (bike and car) is fairly littered with designs that were put out onto the market based on what the manufacturer thought the market needed only to see them founder without a trace.

Let me give you an example, and, remember here, we are talking about the arrogance of manufacturers.

In 1998 Ford Australia debuted the new AU model Falcon, the locally-designed car to take on GM-Holden's Commodore. Heavily based in styling upon the ugly as a hat full of a#@$%holes Ford Taurus, the car was a big leap of faith for the local Ford arm who saw that the time had come to produce a Falcon that was truly an Australian car (even to the extent of naming it the "AU"). Speaking to the media at the time of its release, Ford's MD, Geoff Politis, said that he knew that the styling was radical but that, "We know what's best for the Australian car-buying public and they will come to accept this car as the car of the future. I'm confident that, in time, the Australian public will see this as the best 6-cylinder car we've ever made." (or words to that effect)

Fast-forward to 2002, just four years later. Politis is gone and Ford spends a bucket of money to release the BA model Falcon, looking almost like a clone of the current model Commodore. What went wrong? I'll tell you what went wrong. The AU was a sales disaster. Private buyers deserted Ford in droves rather than be seen driving the turkey, taxi drivers hated the compromised driving position and the difficult to manage boot opening and Ford only saved their corporate bacon in this country by flogging off the thing at huge discounts to fleet buyers in order to stay afloat.

The AU almost singlehandedly destroyed Ford's credibility as a car manufacturer in this country and, with the upgrades to the BA model still continuing, Ford is languishing in a very poor 3rd place in the market here, staving off complete disaster by again looking to the corporate sector to prop them up with fleet sales. The damage that the AU did to Ford's reputation in this country has almost been fatal.

I could multiply examples, but this one should suffice. Even the best manufacturer can mis-read the market. Even the greatest can get it wrong. My fear is that Honda, in seeking to convince us that they have created a whole new "class" of motorcycle (though quite what that class IS has not been successfully spelled out at this stage) may have ended up producing a very expensive design exercise that not only doesn't belong in any existing class but that fails totally to create one of its own.

Until proven to be wrong, I remain skeptical and I believe that we could see this latest exercise continuing to drive prospective S/T owners into the arms of the Sprint ST at ever-increasing rates.

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 01 December 2009 - 02:41 PM, said:

Not sure what your point is, went off on a tangent with the Italian thing - not sure where that was going? Fact is market research did not produce the vtec! How do you research somthing that did not exist in the market, that was a business decision based on Japanese governmental influence and global noise and emissions laws - I have seen the honda memos about that. And it really did nothing really to enhance the bikes performance - at it was orginally marketed as some kind of performance enhancement at first, but it did not take long for buyers to get wise! Lets face it CBR's and Cruisers outsold vtecs! The whole notion about this bike being a product of extensive market research conducted by the manufacturer, really? Who did they target, where are the surveys? Nobody has said a word about being contacted by Honda for product surveys?

A lopsided demand is somthing like give us a fire breathing dragon with 200 hp and weighs in at 300lbs, sigle sided swing arm to boot. Nope they used to sell a vfr 1000 - featured it 2 days ago, its not like they dont have the experience. A liter bike tuned for sport touring riding and for lots of miles, like the vtec, like all the other vfrs before that, (yea its a sturdy engine) or the 5th gen, just a few more cc's. A slightly updated chassis to carry it and keep the overall fit of the bike, the same ergos, the same wheelbase, close to the same wieght, perhaps less it is afterall a sport touring bike, more sport than touring.


I have been at this vfrd thing a long time and I have just noticed alot of comments over the years, and have gathered up a general idea for what most people were saying here. Was it market research nope? I never bought a vtec because I did not think it was significantly better then the 98 I already had! I will be honest I wasnt expecting another tour de techno bike with automatic transmission, dual clutch, 1200cc's, shaft drive, come on this is so completely different - its a v4 but thats really it. I am not sure how we went from 800 cc's to 1200cc and all that other stuff? Market research - really? I am not so sure about that.


First off... [image: Posted Image]

Second, I personally think it's sad that Honda has deserted a good chunk of the VFR crowd to chase BMW buyers. It would of been nice if they had designed a different bike for this venture, but that's business I guess.

]intresting thread ,ive never seen any consumer input asked for by the manufactures ie honda in the uk for the new model ,were any questions asked to usa users.as a point of intrest uk police use a few vfr vtecs ,they used to use st1300,now there using bmws.i wonder if they will trial the new vfr1200.can it travel with all the kit the police load the bikes up with?.i cant see myself purchacing the new 1200vfr,im looking in the adsto see if i can upgrade to avtecin the new year,at the moment prices are still out of my reach,my trade in for my 97 at 42,000 miles is now �1000.its a case of wait and see for the new year.as for the new vfr looks ok on paper we cant see it untill feb.210.price wise its way out of my leauge. :mellow:

[image: View Post]rc36Honda, on 06 December 2009 - 12:38 AM, said:

[image: View Post]rufrydrsc2, on 05 December 2009 - 07:24 PM, said:

What Honda has been telling you for years is if you are looking for a bike reminiscent of what the original VFR was designed as, look elsewhere. You are not traveling in the same direction that they are, and they aren't losing sleep over it.

Um, hello, does the name "EDSEL" ring a bell??

Attributing omniscience to any manufacturer based on history, size, budget or any other number of erroneous factors is something that experienced industry analysts have done as well as fallible forum fulminators. The industry (bike and car) is fairly littered with designs that were put out onto the market based on what the manufacturer thought the market needed only to see them founder without a trace.

Let me give you an example, and, remember here, we are talking about the arrogance of manufacturers.

In 1998 Ford Australia debuted the new AU model Falcon, the locally-designed car to take on GM-Holden's Commodore. Heavily based in styling upon the ugly as a hat full of a#@$%holes Ford Taurus, the car was a big leap of faith for the local Ford arm who saw that the time had come to produce a Falcon that was truly an Australian car (even to the extent of naming it the "AU"). Speaking to the media at the time of its release, Ford's MD, Geoff Politis, said that he knew that the styling was radical but that, "We know what's best for the Australian car-buying public and they will come to accept this car as the car of the future. I'm confident that, in time, the Australian public will see this as the best 6-cylinder car we've ever made." (or words to that effect)

Fast-forward to 2002, just four years later. Politis is gone and Ford spends a bucket of money to release the BA model Falcon, looking almost like a clone of the current model Commodore. What went wrong? I'll tell you what went wrong. The AU was a sales disaster. Private buyers deserted Ford in droves rather than be seen driving the turkey, taxi drivers hated the compromised driving position and the difficult to manage boot opening and Ford only saved their corporate bacon in this country by flogging off the thing at huge discounts to fleet buyers in order to stay afloat.

The AU almost singlehandedly destroyed Ford's credibility as a car manufacturer in this country and, with the upgrades to the BA model still continuing, Ford is languishing in a very poor 3rd place in the market here, staving off complete disaster by again looking to the corporate sector to prop them up with fleet sales. The damage that the AU did to Ford's reputation in this country has almost been fatal.

I could multiply examples, but this one should suffice. Even the best manufacturer can mis-read the market. Even the greatest can get it wrong. My fear is that Honda, in seeking to convince us that they have created a whole new "class" of motorcycle (though quite what that class IS has not been successfully spelled out at this stage) may have ended up producing a very expensive design exercise that not only doesn't belong in any existing class but that fails totally to create one of its own.

Until proven to be wrong, I remain skeptical and I believe that we could see this latest exercise continuing to drive prospective S/T owners into the arms of the Sprint ST at ever-increasing rates.


Um, hello, does the name "CB750" ring a bell?? God forbid that Honda or any other manufacturer take risks now and then!! If every manufacturer followed the status quo we'd all be riding BSA's or Triumphs with notorious Lucas electrics and a spare oil tank just to make sure we make it home.

Honda made a bold decision in the late 60's to develop a radical new 750cc (!!!) 4 cylinder OHC road burner with disc brakes, that didn't leak oil, that didn't leave you stranded on the side of the road, nor cost an arm and a leg. The rest is motorcycle history, just ask the British motorcycle industry about dust bins. Very few bikes are as mold breaking, paradigm shifting as the legendary CB750, but now Honda is once again pushing the envelope, raising the bar, and taking risks. I give major props to Honda for doing so. So many on this forum want Honda to just incrementally move forward i.e. increase a bit of displacement here, shed a few pounds there, nothing that would alarm them out of their comfort zone. But you don't maintain your market leadership for long by making feable changes and staying put. And who benefits? Why that would be the likes of you and me. You may not see the benefits now but I'll go out on a limb and say 5-10 years from now you'll look back and realize what a watershed the VFR1200 with DCT represented.

To use your example of the Ford Edsel or even the AU Falcon, a company makes a bet and loses. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but the best companies have a lot more winners than losers. Just like not every stock or investment is a winner, but you hope over the long haul you come out way ahead. And yes even Honda had it's share of bombs, just like Ford, just like Porsche, just like BMW. I hope Honda and it's competitors keep it up, innovating and pushing the envelop, in the end we all end up winning.

As stated by others, the VFR is not a mass appeal motorcycle which is one of the many reasons we love them. Here in the land of the Gixxer (So Florida) few have ever really seen a red 6th gen and it definitely gets some looks. Ok by me but the real fun is in the riding.

[image: View Post]Daniel Paul, on 06 December 2009 - 01:55 AM, said:

I personally think it's sad that Honda has deserted a good chunk of the VFR crowd to chase BMW buyers.

I know well over a dozen VFR riders that have switched to a BMW over the last couple of years, maybe Honda want to get their customers back.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 06 December 2009 - 10:40 PM, said:

Um, hello, does the name "CB750" ring a bell?? God forbid that Honda or any other manufacturer take risks now and then!! If every manufacturer followed the status quo we'd all be riding BSA's or Triumphs with notorious Lucas electrics and a spare oil tank just to make sure we make it home.

Honda made a bold decision in the late 60's to develop a radical new 750cc (!!!) 4 cylinder OHC road burner with disc brakes, that didn't leak oil, that didn't leave you stranded on the side of the road, nor cost an arm and a leg. The rest is motorcycle history, just ask the British motorcycle industry about dust bins. Very few bikes are as mold breaking, paradigm shifting as the legendary CB750, but now Honda is once again pushing the envelope, raising the bar, and taking risks. I give major props to Honda for doing so. So many on this forum want Honda to just incrementally move forward i.e. increase a bit of displacement here, shed a few pounds there, nothing that would alarm them out of their comfort zone. But you don't maintain your market leadership for long by making feable changes and staying put. And who benefits? Why that would be the likes of you and me. You may not see the benefits now but I'll go out on a limb and say 5-10 years from now you'll look back and realize what a watershed the VFR1200 with DCT represented.

To use your example of the Ford Edsel or even the AU Falcon, a company makes a bet and loses. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but the best companies have a lot more winners than losers. Just like not every stock or investment is a winner, but you hope over the long haul you come out way ahead. And yes even Honda had it's share of bombs, just like Ford, just like Porsche, just like BMW. I hope Honda and it's competitors keep it up, innovating and pushing the envelop, in the end we all end up winning.


As ground breaking as the CB750 was (and it's a great bike, it was my first and I loved it) it also remained mostly unchanged for over 30 years.

Using the CB750 as an example is nonsense, for the reason stated above and also because the market was crying out for it. The technology was already firmly established, MV already made and across-the-frame 4 (albeit to a very small and specialised market), Honda had perfected high-revving 4's in Grands Prix and the British motorcycle industry was ripe for the picking.

Honda's steadfast refusal to take into account the widely-known wishes of its main constituency, VFR riders in this case, has steadily driven dissatisfied prospective owners into the very arms of the manufacturer from which Honda rescued them a generation before. Sales of Triumph's Sprint ST models are healthy and the model is prospering because Triumph did what Honda should have done. Kept the weight down, boosted the capacity and made a PROPER S/T bike.

Cashed-up prospective VFR owners have also voted with their feet and bought BMW's.

I predict that this trend will continue. Current suggestions here in Oz is that the base model will be selling for $A23999 PLUS On Road Costs. (that's around 26 grand US)

[image: View Post]rc36Honda, on 13 January 2010 - 03:40 PM, said:

I predict that this trend will continue. Current suggestions here in Oz is that the base model will be selling for $A23999 PLUS On Road Costs. (that's around 26 grand US)


Much as I love the idea of the new Viffer, if they do release it at a price like that, I'm just not going to buy it. The bike is not worth $23k in basic form from any real world perspective such as equipment & technology provided. They seem to be wanting to say "see we're as good as BMW" and create a high-margin brand which they can then use to justify higher prices across the Honda range.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm actually looking at the Ducati Multistrada and waiting to see what any potential Sprint ST replacement has (because I don't like the current model). I was prepared to put up with the reduced fuel capacity, but that in conjunction with a $23k price tag is just too much. It is worth $19,000 RRP and not a penny more.

Somewhere in the past I probably posted that I would buy it no matter the cost, but they're just slapping me in the face now and it's become a personal matter.

[image: View Post]kaldek, on 18 January 2010 - 08:46 PM, said:

Somewhere in the past I probably posted that I would buy it no matter the cost, but they're just slapping me in the face now and it's become a personal matter.

took the words right outta my mouth.

Quote

Current suggestions here in Oz is that the base model will be selling for $A23999 PLUS On Road Costs. (that's around 26 grand US)

To put that price into perspective - the RSV4R is going to have a RRP of $A23990, plus on road costs... ten bucks cheaper than the VFR! :goofy:

I'd be going to Italy, and necking two Nastro Azzurro's with the change...

[image: Posted Image]

I guess I fall in line with Skutter on this topic completely. Also having ridden a Connie, I drool at the idea of the roll on power this thing will have. It's a nice looking machine (I can say that because the toaster oven pipe would be the first mod). I think this is a perfect example of "creative destruction." Products have to be reinvented or one's competition will simply find the next whatever that makes your product obsolete. The notion that the VFR will return to it's racing blood lines is pretty much a dream. I for one really don't want a machine that rivals the GSXR/CBR/R1 crowd. If they can make the 1200 feel like a VFR I don't care what it weighs. Ever rider review has stated that it really handles much like the current generation. The Connie didn't feel like a sport bike, it felt more like a wing with it's handle bars.

The price doesn't run me off either. Of course I would like to see it as affordable as possible but, I almost took the BMW route in 07 and I paid full price for my abs RWB. I love it... If the new bike feels like this one... and has the 150hp or what ever.. I feel it will be in my garage... maybe sooner rather than later.