One of the mod's that I have been advised to do is put a 19mm tailriser on for better turn in. But my question is, is this the one I need as I have been shown a picture of one but it didn't look anything like this one.
http://cgi.ebay.com....em=300377446504
Thanks guys. :biggrin:
[image: View Post]SJC, on 21 December 2009 - 04:47 AM, said:
One of the mod's that I have been advised to do is put a 19mm tailriser on for better turn in. But my question is, is this the one I need as I have been shown a picture of one but it didn't look anything like this one.
http://cgi.ebay.com....em=300377446504
Thanks guys. :biggrin:
Save yourself some money and buy some body shims from an auto parts store for a few bucks. They look almost exactly like what is pictured in that ebay auction and includes different thicknesses that you can stack up to the height you prefer. I've had the automotive aluminum (I think they're aluminum..) body shims on my 95 VFR shock for several years now with no problem. Put in as much as the threads on the shock threaded rod would allow for full nut engagement and got me about 20+mm of tail rise.
Beck
95 VFR
There are two ways to do this. One is by shimming the upper shock mount, which this part will allow you to do.
You can also do the same thing for nearly free with common washers, the benefit being you can choose your height based on the number of washers, downside being you need to remove the shock mount to get the washers on.
Oh, and you'll probably need a longer bolt for the upper shock mount.
The other way is with a tailriser that replaces the OEM suspension triangle like this:
http://www.bikefarmmv.de/pics/HONDA%20DREIECKE%201.jpg
Either will work. I did the free washer stack method, works fine.
[image: View Post]veefer800canuck, on 20 December 2009 - 09:06 PM, said:
There are two ways to do this. One is by shimming the upper shock mount, which this part will allow you to do.
You can also do the same thing for nearly free with common washers, the benefit being you can choose your height based on the number of washers, downside being you need to remove the shock mount to get the washers on.
Oh, and you'll probably need a longer bolt for the upper shock mount.
The other way is with a tailriser that replaces the OEM suspension triangle like this:
Either will work. I did the free washer stack method, works fine.
The third option is to get a shorter dogbone. Also, you can 'slot' the cheapo washers with a grinder, cutting wheel or hacksaw, whatever is handy, so they slide in without completely removing the upper mount.
[image: View Post]veefer800canuck, on 21 December 2009 - 05:06 AM, said:
There are two ways to do this. One is by shimming the upper shock mount, which this part will allow you to do.
You can also do the same thing for nearly free with common washers, the benefit being you can choose your height based on the number of washers, downside being you need to remove the shock mount to get the washers on......
That's why I used the "U" shaped auto body shims. All I had to do is loosen the top shock mount nut and slipped them in. Made sure that the open part of the "U" is pointed to towards the tail of the bike so in case the top mount nut does loosen up for some reason, the shims don't fall out of the bike too easily. Also make sure to check the tightness of the top shock mount nut periodically when I'm doing maintenance or cleanup in that area. Using auto body shims are the easiest and cheapest way to raise up the tails of the VFR. Replacing dogbones and link triangles can get expensuve and a lot more work for the similar amounts of lift.
Beck
95 VFR
Actually the easiest and cheapest way since the OP mentioned he wants quicker turnin would be to raise the forks in the tripples about 5-10 mm, Raising the rear works well to as posted above. I raised mine to the Max which required about 3/8" stack of washers.. If you use washers you can get them from Lowes, I used 3/8" ID x 1 1/5" OD. Its also easy to knock out the Bolt and put in a longer one. I ordered a xtra top mount when I did mine. Just take a air hammer to the flat side to easily break the welds holding the bolt..
Thurn Motorsports also makes raising links (Triangles) that you can use if you want.. There a UK based company..
If you raise the rear 20mm it only has the effect of raising the forks in the tripples about 5mm (-+)
[image: View Post]marid2apterbilt, on 21 December 2009 - 04:54 AM, said:
Actually the easiest and cheapest way since the OP mentioned he wants quicker turnin would be to raise the forks in the tripples about 5-10 mm, Raising the rear works well to as posted above. I raised mine to the Max which required about 3/8" stack of washers.. If you use washers you can get them from Lowes, I used 3/8" ID x 1 1/5" OD. Its also easy to knock out the Bolt and put in a longer one. I ordered a xtra top mount when I did mine. Just take a air hammer to the flat side to easily break the welds holding the bolt..
Thurn Motorsports also makes raising links (Triangles) that you can use if you want.. There a UK based company..
If you raise the rear 20mm it only has the effect of raising the forks in the tripples about 5mm (-+)
True, but by lowering the front end, you actually lose ground clearance.
Raising the rear, you gain ground clearance. Good thing on a VFR.
I think its better (safer) to shim the rear rather than dropping the front because it increases the ground clearance in a dangerous spot - the exhaust header behind the right footpeg. The only disadvantage is that the rear tire will probably be (just) touching the ground when the bike is up on the center stand, making it hard to spin the tire when lubing the chain. In fact I have to roll the centerstand feet back onto a thin (3/8") wood plank in order to lube the chain or change the rear tire.
I also noticed the bike tilts over a little bit more on the side stand now and the seat height is a bit higher - not a problem for me, I'm 6' 1" tall.
This was one of the best/cheapest mods I've done for fairly aggressive twistie riding. I touched the header once before this mod and it scared me pretty badly. Since the mod I haven't had any problems (in that area).
By the way, a .25" (6.3mm) shim will increase the ride height by .75" (19mm) due to the 3:1 geometry built into the swingarm/shockmount.
Suspension settings can get complicated - best to start with a baseline then changeing setting from your baseline. My baseline is 35mm sag front and back then a few clicks on the shock adjuster to feel. You can do a search for sag and read lots of threads on the subject.
I did this mod a long time ago, using large washers I cut notches in so that I could just loosen the bolt and slide them in. I removed them a year later and never looked back. Faster turn in? Yea sure the same thing can be accomplished by setting your sag properly front and back and simply adjusting the preload on the shock up and dropping the preload on the forks.
More clearance is fine if your scraping hard parts in the turns, which is probably caused by a combination of improper sag and coasting in the turns (no throttle in the turns makes the bike sag too low while leaned over). I think having the bike lifted too high in the back makes the rear end too loose, too much wieght on the front wheel makes for difficult slow speed manuvers too, if your not likeing the steering and you have made adjustments to your preload perhaps a different set of tires is in order? Most the problems with steering feel can be adjusted normally by using the preload adjusters and then measuring the sag front and back, counting clicks on the shock and lines on the forks taking note of what works for you. Lifting the bike too high also raises the center of gravity making the bike more difficult to flick over from side to side - the pendulum effect. I keep my bike just so high as not to scrape parts and low enough to flick it over easy.
[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 21 December 2009 - 04:00 PM, said:
Suspension settings can get complicated - best to start with a baseline then changeing setting from your baseline. My baseline is 35mm sag front and back then a few clicks on the shock adjuster to feel. You can do a search for sag and read lots of threads on the subject.
I did this mod a long time ago, using large washers I cut notches in so that I could just loosen the bolt and slide them in. I removed them a year later and never looked back. Faster turn in? Yea sure the same thing can be accomplished by setting your sag properly front and back and simply adjusting the preload on the shock up and dropping the preload on the forks.
More clearance is fine if your scraping hard parts in the turns, which is probably caused by a combination of improper sag and coasting in the turns (no throttle in the turns makes the bike sag too low while leaned over). I think having the bike lifted too high in the back makes the rear end too loose, too much wieght on the front wheel makes for difficult slow speed manuvers too, if your not likeing the steering and you have made adjustments to your preload perhaps a different set of tires is in order? Most the problems with steering feel can be adjusted normally by using the preload adjusters and then measuring the sag front and back, counting clicks on the shock and lines on the forks taking note of what works for you. Lifting the bike too high also raises the center of gravity making the bike more difficult to flick over from side to side - the pendulum effect. I keep my bike just so high as not to scrape parts and low enough to flick it over easy.
:+1: To what HS said. Getting your suspension properly set up is the first step. You may have already done this.
If you still wish to raise the rear, you might want to consider starting out with a bit less than 19 mm. You will be surprised at the difference it will make and 19 may be a bit much.
As mentioned before, with the increased ride height, you will probably need to place something like a 3/4 inch plywood board on the ground under the center stand in order to get the rear tire off the ground for chain maintenance.
After setting desired SAG numbers, you do NOT want to use preload adjustments to change bike rake or ride height(unless of course your adding a passenger or trip gear). Doing this will only screw up your Sag numbers, if you want to change the bikes rake after setting desired sag then that's when you shim the rear or drop the front for desired rake.
The Only way to achieve proper SAG numbers is with the correct Spring Rates for your weight on that bike, this is the Foundation of building any bike's suspension system! If you don't install the correct springs for your weight then everything else is only a compromise and will never be ideal.
Also being able to achieve desired Rider sag numbers in No way indicates that your running proper spring rates, you have to have ideal FREE Sag numbers along with proper Rider sag numbers. This is the only real way to know that you have the correct spring rates. BTW at least half of the "PRO" shops & Tuners suggest the wrong spring rates numbers for our VFR's from everything I can see & from info from members who are doing it right by achieving both correct Free & Rider sag numbers! :unsure:
What bike rake that might work best for you will depend a lot on what type of riding you mostly do! People who live in the twisties will most likely enjoy a little quicker steering, where as commuters and tourers might be happy with stock rake.
Thanks guys, I'll go and do some searchers on setting the sag and see how it goes. Also some people have said the lowering the forks increases the turn in but also some have said that rising the forks increases turn in. Which is it :unsure: I thought it was lowering.
raising the fork tubes in the tree(lowering the front of the bike)makes your turn in quicker.
It's a great mod.
One of the things this geometry change does is raise the center of gravity which will aid the side to side transition, making the bike feel lighter.
I have two sets of link plates and an adjustable ride height shock and for a heavy machine, you can get it to turn and transition quickly.
I learned quite a bit by taking it to GMD Computrack to get the geometry checked, and then they ran "what if"s" to get to their "sweet numbers" and all of that data has been very helpful.
[image: View Post]azboy, on 21 December 2009 - 05:48 PM, said:
I learned quite a bit by taking it to GMD Computrack to get the geometry checked, and then they ran "what if"s" to get to their "sweet numbers" and all of that data has been very helpful.
I would be interested to hear what they came up with for the VFR's "Sweet Spot". :fing02: