[image: View Post]phobe, on 24 January 2010 - 06:07 PM, said:
An innovative and unique powerful V4 unlike anything else built. An advanced and powerful linked ABS braking system. A new shaft drive design that doesn't feel like a shaft. A new paint process that shames the finish of high-end luxury cars. Digital throttle. Layered fairing design that evacuates hot radiator exhaust under the bike and directs cool air to the engine and rider... with no visible fasteners. Hell they even designed a new way of building seats.
And if you choose, the World's first motorcycle DCT,which is by all accounts a revelation and a game-changer.
A shitload of new patents. None of that counts? Unless by "tech features" you mean "cheap gadgets".
Phobe, I feel like you've had too much of the koolaid, but that's your prerogative.
Like others here I had a chance to see the new bike at the NYC IMS this past weekend and I was very excited about the opportunity. I have been trying to stay positive about the bike, although inside I suppose I feel more like Larry (eg BusyLittleShop) and feel that at 600 lbs the bike misses the mark with me. Many have said that it does NOT feel that heavy, etc.
1. Weight: having now sat on the bike and rolled it around (although no test ride) I personally think that those who do not feel the weight are kidding themselves. That said, I'm comparing to a 5th Gen and sitting on the 6th Gen which was also there made me realize how much heavier they were vs my bike as well. I would say that the 6th Gen and 7th Gen feel close in weight. Honestly I don't even know what the weight figures are for a 6th Gen, but that's my .02 there.
2. Looks: Like others before me I DO agree that the bike looks better in person. That said it still did not "rock my world" like looking at a 1198 or anything. One piece of the looks that I found odd was that there is a "cutout" that allows light to pass through a piece of the windshield and through a "tunnel" (for lack of a better description). I'm unsure of the purpose but was not a big fan of that.
3. Adjustable Windshield: what a freakin' joke. The windshield requires TOOLS to adjust. A prior bike of mine had a "true" adjustable windshield. While is was not electric, it did not require any tools. Simply grab it with two hands and move it. This was actually useful in the rain / cold. I would never have moved it on a trip if it required tools.
4. bags: to me the bags are a stolen thought from BMW. This is the EXACT same mounting system that BMW uses on the RT, RS, and GT (prior gen) models. The good news is that it is a decent design (although I personally like the new design used on the K12/13S MUCH better). The way this design works bags have been known to "eject" themselves occasionally at higher rates of speed. The good news is that this is a better design than I've seen Honda use for their luggage on any other bike in terms of looks with the bags removed. The bags themselves are a tossup to me. They seemed to be Givi quality (which they could be as they source some work to Givi) which I don't see as a positive or negative really.
5. fasteners: so a lot seems to be made about the "invisible fasteners". Maybe I'm alone here, but I don't see that as a huge "win". While disassembling bikes I MUCH prefer to have panels which are fastened by SCREWS. Having owned Suzuki, Honda, and BMW motorcycles I can say without hesitation that this is one of the things that I really like about BMW motorcycles. Forget mounting tabs that can easily be broken while trying to "fight" them loose. I suppose that if you are the type of person that never services anything on your bike yourself then it could be a "win". For me I'll take the accessible stainless steel screws any day.
6. Fuel economy: 31, yes THIRTY-ONE miles per US gallon... are you freakin' kidding me?
7. Fuel range: empty tank at approximately 160 miles... at risk of sounding redundant, ARE YOU FREAKIN' KIDDING ME?
To Phobe's points:
1. Phobe: An innovative and unique powerful V4 unlike anything else built.
Matt: do we know that? I don't know that any of us mere mortals have had a chance to throw a leg over one yet. Several of the mags make it sound powerful but not exhilarating (which by the way is how I find my K1200S, so maybe I'm just wanting too much?). I suppose that we CAN say that it's unique, but is that worthy of praise if the performance is not there?
2. Phobe: An advanced and powerful linked ABS braking system.
Matt: have you not ridden a modern day ABS machine? I would say that any I've ridden in the last 5 years (Harley aside) have been "advanced and powerful". Again, without personal experience I don't see how any of us can really say for sure.
3. Phobe: A new shaft drive design that doesn't feel like a shaft.
Matt: Again unless you are an insider and have ridden this, how do you know that? Additionally I would suggest that the K12/13S don't feel like you traditional beaten down shaftie bike either... course most BMW shafties have not felt this way for years.
4. Paint... the paint DID look nice, but I'm not sure that I found it as "special" as what I was expecting... maybe due to hearing about it and raising my expectations.
5. Phobe: Layered fairing design that evacuates hot radiator exhaust under the bike and directs cool air to the engine and rider...
Matt: personally don't care for the look and would rather have the overwhelming heat thrown out of my 5th Gen on me
6. Phobe: And if you choose, the World's first motorcycle DCT,which is by all accounts a revelation and a game-changer.
Matt: yipee! :rolleyes: A bike for all the folks in the world that don't know how to shift properly! Again, I have not experienced it, but I'm having a VERY hard time imagining that I'd WANT to give up the experience of clicking through the gears myself. Who knows though, I always thought my hand was good until upgrading to the real thing one day.
7. A shitload of new patents. None of that counts? Unless by "tech features" you mean "cheap gadgets".
Matt: really not sure that I care about patents. What would be nice are the "extras" that end up on the bike. Not a requirement, but some nice things other manufactures are doing that are missing on the new VFR: Traction Control, Electronic Suspension Adjustment, Cruise Control, Tire Pressure Monitoring, selectable fuel / power mappings, electronically adjustable windshields, heated grips, heated seats, gauge clusters that include average speed, average miles per gallon, and distance to empty among others. Possibly YOU PHOBE think that all of these things are "cheap gadgets" that should not be included.
Most that have made it this far through my post/rant likely think that I have it in for the VFR. This could not be further from the truth. I currently own a 2008 Suzuki GSX-R 750 for track duty, a 2000 Yeller VFR, and a 2007 BMW K1200S. I was HOPING that the VFR would knock my socks off. I LOVE V4's and hoped that it would be THE BIKE that made me want to sell my 5th Gen AND BMW. I really find my K12S a nice ride but was hoping for three things that I thought the new VFR might deliver:
1. a V4 motor for power delivery... was pretty sure I would get that one
2. reliability. While I have not experienced any issues with my BMW outside of a fuel gauge sending unit which was covered under warranty, I'm a subscriber to Honda reliability and lower cost of ownership.
3. at 7k RPM+ on the Beemer I feel a high pitched vibration that bothers me. Most do not notice this / find it an issue, but I have very sensitive hands and hoped the VFR would fix that.
Those things said, in order to trade the KS for the VFR the Honda would need to be an equal in all other aspects. Having placed MY butt on one and seen one with MY eyes now I'm afraid it is NOT gonna happen. :(
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