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4th gen tail section made into one piece

49 posts Started 11 Mar 2010 Last recovered post 14 Sep 2012 Wayback Machine snapshot 13 Aug 2022
#1 SEBSPEED Thread starter

Did this over the last weekend, took all 5 pcs of a 4th gen tail and fused them into one piece. Thought you guys might like to see &/or try it. I just have parts pics right now, I'll add some tool and product pics a little later. I used my trusty Dremel with a round cutting bit to groove the seams, and the PlastiFix is made by Urethane Supply Company. The process is tedious, but this is the strongest/most solid plastic repair method I've used yet.

Started w/ the left side tail panel, and clamped the lower rear piece to it. Grooved it w/ the Dremel, and added the tape because it wasn't sitting perfectly with the vice grip alone:

[image: PICT1235.jpg]

Add PlastiFix:

[image: PICT1238.jpg]

15 min later... Strong!

[image: PICT1246.jpg]

Lather, rinse, repeat. I added the right side tail panel next(along with bolting the top center piece in place):

[image: PICT1248.jpg]

Then fused in the top center, and then the half moon. Taillight is bolted in place for support.

[image: PICT1251.jpg]

[image: PICT1250.jpg]

[image: PICT1254.jpg]

[image: PICT1253.jpg]

You can see I fixed a crack in the half moon piece too.

PlastiFix: http://www.urethanes...&Category_Code=http://www.urethanes...stifixhowto.php

#3 RollinAgain

Seb,

You forgot to post a picture of the beers you'll need to complete the job succesfully.

Regards,

Rollin

#4 WIN6

So. . . maybe it's just becasue I completely lack all of the parts in this thread. But I was wondering. . . what's the benefit to this?

aside from the "because I can" and "becasue it makes it unique" which I do think are very valid reasons.

By the way, I'll keep the PlastiFix in mind, I'm sure I'll put it to use sometime.

#5 Guest

The benefit is that, it is well known for the 4th Gen tailpieces to crack and eventually break through. Making it all into one piece would, I imagine, strengthen it considerably. Good idea.

#6 SEBSPEED Thread starter
WIN6

So. . . maybe it's just becasue I completely lack all of the parts in this thread. But I was wondering. . . what's the benefit to this?

aside from the "because I can" and "becasue it makes it unique" which I do think are very valid reasons.

By the way, I'll keep the PlastiFix in mind, I'm sure I'll put it to use sometime.

rc36Honda has your answer above. The 5 old pieces of plastic that comprise the VFR tail are notorious for turning into a house of cards over time; too much vibration and heat/cold combined with many isolated stress points(all the small screws and tabs that hold the pieces in place), make for many cracks and failure points.

#7 SEBSPEED Thread starter
RollinAgain

Seb,

You forgot to post a picture of the beers you'll need to complete the job succesfully.

Regards,

Rollin

Under ideal conditions, this would be a 2-3 beer job(not 2-3 Miller Lites, btw, good stuff!!). However, if you're working with the windows and doors shut like I was due to weather/whatever, the "lovely scent" of the chemicals will be enough to knock you for a loop... get fresh air often! I highly recommend reading the MSDS sheet on this stuff before using. The package looks innocent enough, possible bodily harm is not!

#8 V4 Rosso

Interesting. Looks good, I may have to give that a try myself. Thanks for the pictorial SEB :cheerleader:

#9 Tightwad

The unfortunate side of this is you have to paint it afterwards....Seb may be capable of that, but many are not. I was wondering the same "why" question, but it makes sense now.

#10 SEBSPEED Thread starter
Tightwad

The unfortunate side of this is you have to paint it afterwards....Seb may be capable of that, but many are not. I was wondering the same "why" question, but it makes sense now.

Hey, if you can push a button...

[image: Timmy.jpg]

:cheerleader:

#11 Guest

Man that is awesome I wish I had thought to do that to mine when I rebuilt it. Mine is now a 4 piece. We were missing so much plastic that connected the right side and under that we molded it into one piece, should have done it for the whole thing, that's going to look very clean when you get done with it.

#13 Burns

Seb,

forgot to ask when I was talking to ya... can you sand/shape the stuff after it sets up? Does it actually act like normal plastic or does it act more like a solid glue.. you said it was pretty rigid compared to, say, ABS glue.

#14 SEBSPEED Thread starter
ss_burns

Seb,

forgot to ask when I was talking to ya... can you sand/shape the stuff after it sets up? Does it actually act like normal plastic or does it act more like a solid glue.. you said it was pretty rigid compared to, say, ABS glue.

It cuts & sands like ABS plastic. :cheerleader:

#15 YoshiHNS

You don't have to stop there. I think I forsee a need for more plastic welding and paint in your near future :cheerleader:

#16 SEBSPEED Thread starter
YoshiHNS

You don't have to stop there. I think I forsee a need for more plastic welding and paint in your near future :lurk:

Yeah, I keep hearing that... lots of talk & no action! You had a whole trailer to put your stuff in last time! :warranty:

Just messin w/ ya Yosh :cheerleader:

#18 Burns
YoshiHNS

You don't have to stop there. I think I forsee a need for more plastic welding and paint in your near future :warranty:

Yosh, we need to coordinate... 3 people renting a paint booth gets even cheaper.. wink.gif although we'd better come up w/ some REALLY good suds for Seb, to actually go for this plan.

#19 mrmatt

Great idea, my plastics still look decent but am starting to get cracks in the usual spots...

Looking forward to see the finished result :cheerleader:

#20 YoshiHNS
SEBSPEED

Yeah, I keep hearing that... lots of talk & no action! You had a whole trailer to put your stuff in last time! :cheerleader:

:warranty:

Still... :lurk:

#21 SEBSPEED Thread starter
ss_burns
YoshiHNS

You don't have to stop there. I think I forsee a need for more plastic welding and paint in your near future :cheerleader:

Yosh, we need to coordinate... 3 people renting a paint booth gets even cheaper.. wink.gif although we'd better come up w/ some REALLY good suds for Seb, to actually go for this plan.

3 is gonna get a little crowded - and I hope at least 2 want the same color... or you're getting "fade" jobs! tongue.gif

#22 YoshiHNS
SEBSPEED
ss_burns
YoshiHNS

You don't have to stop there. I think I forsee a need for more plastic welding and paint in your near future :cheerleader:

Yosh, we need to coordinate... 3 people renting a paint booth gets even cheaper.. wink.gif although we'd better come up w/ some REALLY good suds for Seb, to actually go for this plan.

3 is gonna get a little crowded - and I hope at least 2 want the same color... or you're getting "fade" jobs! tongue.gif

There's more than one fastest color? :lurk:

#23 SEBSPEED Thread starter
YoshiHNS

There's more than one fastest color? :huh:

Not everyone can handle RED. :warranty:

#24 WIN6
SEBSPEED
WIN6

So. . . maybe it's just becasue I completely lack all of the parts in this thread. But I was wondering. . . what's the benefit to this?

aside from the "because I can" and "becasue it makes it unique" which I do think are very valid reasons.

By the way, I'll keep the PlastiFix in mind, I'm sure I'll put it to use sometime.

rc36Honda has your answer above. The 5 old pieces of plastic that comprise the VFR tail is notorious for turning into a house of cards over time; too much vibration and heat/cold combined with many isolated stress points(all the small screws and tabs that hold the pieces in place), make for many cracks and failure points.

Sounds like you should just go to a custom subframe and get rid of the plastic all together. . .

Makes sense now, thanks.

#25 Rice

Nice work, Seb.

I am working up the mental fortitude to begin fixing my broken plastics and Plastifix will come in handy.

Timmy paint will be used as well :huh:

After reading the description of Plasitfix on their website, I wonder if its delivery is followed by a visit from your friendly DEA agent. :warranty:

This kit includes 30 grams of WHITE powder, 50 ml of liquid, one molding bar, two application needles, two applicator cups, and one transfer pipet.
#26 SEBSPEED Thread starter

Nice work, Seb.
I am working up the mental fortitude to begin fixing my broken plastics and Plastifix will come in handy.
Timmy paint will be used as well :dry:

After reading the description of Plasitfix on their website, I wonder if its delivery is followed by a visit from your friendly DEA agent. :warranty:

This kit includes 30 grams of WHITE powder, 50 ml of liquid, one molding bar, two application needles, two applicator cups, and one transfer pipet.


You could order the black powder if you want to play it safe! :huh:
#27 SEBSPEED Thread starter
Grafted 2 uppers together to replace a damaged section:

[image: Posted Image]

And a missing area filled:

[image: Posted Image]

The black patch there is where I plastic welded some stainless steel mesh for reinforcement.

Next & last is to use the molding bar on the opposite side upper fairing to make a mold of the mount area, then transfer to above shown bad part and recreate the mounting location. If you're planning to paint anyway, this stuff is cheaper than buying new or used(if you can find good used 4th gen parts!)

Using the flexible molding bar to make an impression of a good mounting hole, and from that mold re-create the mounting hole on a broken part:

The hole in question is the left rear mounting hole, on the side of the upper fairing.

First, you need to heat a cup of water in the microwave till it almost boils. Then soak the bar in the water for 5 min or so. The bar will become soft and malleable, but not for too long.

I squished the soft bar into the mount area on the good part, after cleaning the part.

[image: Posted Image]

Let it cool/harden, then pull it out.

[image: Posted Image]

Stick it in the broken part, and secure it with tape.

[image: Posted Image]

Apply PlastiFix via the dropper method. At one point, I had a bit too much liquid on the part, so I tapped some powder out of the cup onto it to soak it up. Build it up high enough so you can create the flat back surface that mates to the bracket.

[image: Posted Image]

[image: Posted Image]

Open up the hole w/ the Dremel

[image: Posted Image]

And flush up the backside.

[image: Posted Image]

Then finish bodyworking the low spots.

[image: Posted Image]
#28 Lee 2002
As a curiosity, have you done all these repairs with just one kit or did you order multiple kits?

.... just planning for the future.... it'll happen sometime, the way I ride.
#29 SEBSPEED Thread starter

As a curiosity, have you done all these repairs with just one kit or did you order multiple kits?

.... just planning for the future.... it'll happen sometime, the way I ride.


One kit. Still about 1/3 to 1/4 of it left.
#30 Rice

[image: Posted Image]

Good to go! :laughing6-hehe:


This is EXACTLY what I've been pondering how to accomplish!
Now there is no reason for me not to attempt my repairs.
The fact that a single kit can be used for multiple repairs is good news too.
Thanks Seb!
#31 mellowyellow
looks good seb I was thinking of fixing up my daily driven Burgman but the plastics are so cracked up I would have to order cases of that stuff.
living life in the city and being ridden year round this poor scooter has gone down more times than Paris Hilton.
#32 sruss67
As always, nice work Seb and would like to do the same to my 4th gen.

Lots of small cracks starting to appear and hopefully I can get Plastifix in OZ.

Cheers
#33 The Phantom

[image: View Post]sruss67, on 19 March 2010 - 02:27 PM, said:

As always, nice work Seb and would like to do the same to my 4th gen.

Lots of small cracks starting to appear and hopefully I can get Plastifix in OZ.

Cheers


You can, and here's the guy to go to (courtesy of Scottrates off OzVFR):

Victorian Plastic Welding

Iain Morphett


58 Palmer Ave

Point Cook

Werribbee, Victoria, 3030

Country Code: AU

Phone Number: +61 4 07 00 7975

Fax Number:

email: vicplasticweld@gmail.com


He does all of the Urethane Supply Company products inluding the Mini 6 5600HT plastic welder which he has on discount for $220 - amazingly cheap, and you can repair almost any plastic with this kit (but you will also need Plastifix as the welder can't effectively repair some jobs). He does the Plastifix for $35 (30g kit), the equivalent kit from Plastex is $75!

I have the Mini 6 welder (Seb helped arrange one from the US for me) and it's great. Feel free to PM me with any questions, if you want to drop in at Palmwoods sometime to see how it works you are most welcome :fing02:
#34 VFDoug
Nice job Seb, and thanks for the info. I've been wondering what to use to fix all my cracked stuff. (I think I have one piece off the whole bike that isn't cracked or broken.)
#36 vfracer750
Nice work Seb. I was thinking of doing the same to my 3rd gen tail section. Do you think you could do the same weld job to the tail section on the underside to accomplish the same thing without having to repaint? I'd imagine some of the Plastifix would leak through the panel gaps a little.

Roger
#37 SEBSPEED Thread starter

[image: View Post]vfracer750, on 08 May 2010 - 08:32 PM, said:

Nice work Seb. I was thinking of doing the same to my 3rd gen tail section. Do you think you could do the same weld job to the tail section on the underside to accomplish the same thing without having to repaint? I'd imagine some of the Plastifix would leak through the panel gaps a little.

Roger


Hi Roger, it's best if you do both sides. More specifically, do one side, then groove the other side until you hit the repair on the first side. This way, you truly eliminate the seam.
#38 vfrrider

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 14 March 2010 - 03:29 PM, said:

K folks, got another use here. This time using the flexible molding bar to make an impression of a good mounting hole, and from that mold re-create the mounting hole on a broken part.

The hole in question is the left rear mounting hole, on the side of the upper fairing.

First, you need to heat a cup of water in the microwave till it almost boils. Then soak the bar in the water for 5 min or so. The bar will become soft and malleable, but not for too long.

I squished the soft bar into the mount area on the good part, after cleaning the part.
[image: Posted Image]

Let it cool/harden, then pull it out.
[image: Posted Image]

Stick it in the broken part, and secure it with tape.
[image: Posted Image]

Apply PlastiFix via the dropper method. At one point, I had a bit too much liquid on the part, so I tapped some powder out of the cup onto it to soak it up. Build it up high enough so you can create the flat back surface that mates to the bracket.
[image: Posted Image]

[image: Posted Image]

Open up the hole w/ the Dremel
[image: Posted Image]

And flush up the backside.
[image: Posted Image]

Good to go! :fing02:



Now that was creative and a definite saver.

Larry
VFRrider
#39 SEBSPEED Thread starter

[image: View Post]Tightwad, on 12 March 2010 - 08:20 AM, said:

The unfortunate side of this is you have to paint it afterwards....Seb may be capable of that, but many are not. I was wondering the same "why" question, but it makes sense now.


Ahem...

[image: Posted Image]
#40 roman
This looks awesome. I want to do this as well... I've had my tail section fall apart after 40K miles... once a single fastener gets loose on the back it rattles apart rather quickly :(. Right now I held it together using silicon sealant, which works okay but is non-permanent.

Some questions:

1) How easy is it to insert/remove the tail light/turn signals when it's fused a single piece? I figure it can take an amount of bending but not too much. (I may want to buff/tint he turn signal ambers.)

2) Should i try expoxying it together while assembled on the bike? I have a feeling if I'm off a bit putting it together it's going to cause problems mounting it on the bike.

3) Is it recommended to attempt this using ordinary ABS cement or plastic soldering?
#41 Beck
For guys with 4th gens that do not have cracks on thier tail farings (yet?).....could there be a preventatvie solution before having to deal with it this way? What about spraying the back of the tail piece with some sort of compound that will hold the different peices together like they were glued together...like maybe a couple of coats of spray-on pickup bed liner stuff?? It will avoid having to refinish the paint on the tails too, plus maybe help abrorb shock and vibration that causes the cracking.
Just an idea.....

Beck
95 VFR
#42 mrmatt

For guys with 4th gens that do not have cracks on thier tail farings (yet?).....could there be a preventatvie solution before having to deal with it this way? What about spraying the back of the tail piece with some sort of compound that will hold the different peices together like they were glued together...like maybe a couple of coats of spray-on pickup bed liner stuff?? It will avoid having to refinish the paint on the tails too, plus maybe help abrorb shock and vibration that causes the cracking.
Just an idea.....

Beck
95 VFR

Hmm, maybe Rhino Line the inside? I think I've also seen (on the interwebs) some guy put a type of clear plastic sheet stuff over his fairings, I think it was some guy working on his Ducati but can't remember what it was...
#43 SEBSPEED Thread starter

This looks awesome. I want to do this as well... I've had my tail section fall apart after 40K miles... once a single fastener gets loose on the back it rattles apart rather quickly :(. Right now I held it together using silicon sealant, which works okay but is non-permanent.

Some questions:

1) How easy is it to insert/remove the tail light/turn signals when it's fused a single piece? I figure it can take an amount of bending but not too much. (I may want to buff/tint he turn signal ambers.)
You should be able to do that without too much difficulty.
2) Should i try expoxying it together while assembled on the bike? I have a feeling if I'm off a bit putting it together it's going to cause problems mounting it on the bike.
If you want to do it right, and make it permanent, you need to remove the panels so you can do the proper prep work on the parts. You need to scuff the seams to provide a rough surface for the new material to bond to.
3) Is it recommended to attempt this using ordinary ABS cement or plastic soldering?
You can try it. I've used at least a half dozen different methods for joining/welding/repairing plastic, and this has left me with the best impression of strength and durability thus far.



For guys with 4th gens that do not have cracks on thier tail farings (yet?).....could there be a preventatvie solution before having to deal with it this way? What about spraying the back of the tail piece with some sort of compound that will hold the different peices together like they were glued together...like maybe a couple of coats of spray-on pickup bed liner stuff?? It will avoid having to refinish the paint on the tails too, plus maybe help abrorb shock and vibration that causes the cracking.
Just an idea.....

Beck
95 VFR


Beck, you want this product - Norton's SpeedGrip Seam Sealer:
http://www.nortonaut...p-Auto-7663.pdf

You'll still need to remove your rear bodywork, and scuff the seams on the underside. Re-assemble the parts off the bike with the oem hardware and use masking tape to hold the parts in place if needed. Find ways to prop up the part so that you're not "sealing in stress" when you seal the seams.

You'll start with a bead of the seam sealer over a joint, and an area about 1.5-2" around it. On top of that, you will squeeze in a piece of nylon sheetrock mesh tape(looks just like the tape in Norton's pdf above, but much cheaper!). Then once the tape is pressed in, finish it off with another layer of sealer. After it cures, you will have a nicely reinforced joint. It should last a long time too if done properly, I chose to use the PlastiFix to completely eliminate the seam.

Hmm, maybe Rhino Line the inside? I think I've also seen (on the interwebs) some guy put a type of clear plastic sheet stuff over his fairings, I think it was some guy working on his Ducati but can't remember what it was...


I haven't worked with bed liner material much, but it seems to me it would be too thin to be a good enough fix. Besides, you have to do the same prep work that I laid out above, so why not spend a few more bucks and use a product designed for the job? :biggrin:
#45 roman
^ Wow it looks really nice and clean! :fing02: I just might do it!
#47 nitrousva
Seb, great tutorial, that stuff sounds like what I need to do some repairs on my bike.

If I send you all my parts would you do a tutorial for Gen 3 bikes? :blush:
#48 PorradaVFR
Why not go ahead and add the Ducati downforce wings from the GP bike? :blush:
#49 SEBSPEED Thread starter
Edited the full thread to fix picture links.
End of thread · 49 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 13 Aug 2022