CCT Noise

2003 VFR800 with 32,000 miles sometimes makes a tapping sound that is too loud to be normal. I have read the posts and it sounds like a worn Cam Chain Tensioner. I can go days with no noise and some mornings the noise begins as soon as the engine is started while in neutral and at idle and will go away after the engine warms up, but when I ride for a few blocks and stop for a red light, I will hear the tapping and with a gentle engine rev the noise will stop. Other times when the engine is running normal, I gently rev the engine and will hear the tapping for around 15 seconds before it stops.

From what I have described is there another potential source of noise I should explore?

When I stop by the dealership it never makes the suspect tapping sounds. What does it cost to have both CCTs changed? I am hearing $1000 as long as the chain itself doesn’t have to be replaced and two weeks down time. Does this sound right?

I have also read various threads that recommend living with the CCT noise until it gets too bad. If the CCT is making noise, is this an optional repair if you can live with the noise or is it a repair best made before it gets worse?+

6/27/2010
- One more question. There is a common thread to many of the comments - Oil. For 26,000 miles I used the Honda GN4 10W40. It was after I switched to Repsol 4T 100% Synthetic / 10W30 oil that the CCT noise began. Since the Honda GN4 is a synthetic blend, can I go back from a full synthetic to a synthetic blend?

7/14/2010

- FIRST - I really appreciated everyone's feedback. Thank You.

- SECOND - The CCT noise began at about 30,000 miles. That is shortly after I switched from Honda GN4 10W40 to Repsol 4T 100% Synthetic oil. The noise did not start immediately but it was the only thing I had changed before the CCT noise started. I took the advice of those who recommended changing to a different oil to see if that would fix the problem before spending $100 to replace one CCT myself, $400 to have the dealership change one CCT for me or $1000 for the dealership to replace both front and rear CCT units. I changed the oil and the filter and switched to Honda HP4 10W40 Synthetic Blend. It has been several weeks and 300 miles with ZERO CCT noise. I have my fingers crossed that this fixes the problem. If anything changes I will update this thread.

Thanks again for great feedback and advice.

Allen, on 20 June 2010 - 03:28 PM, said: 2003 VFR800 with 32,000 miles sometimes makes a tapping sound that is too loud to be normal. I have read the posts and it sounds like a worn Cam Chain Tensioner. I can go days with no noise and some mornings the noise begins as soon as the engine is started while in neutral and at idle and will go away after the engine warms up, but when I ride for a few blocks and stop for a red light, I will hear the tapping and with a gentle engine rev the noise will stop. Other times when the engine is running normal, I gently rev the engine and will hear the tapping for around 15 seconds before it stops. From what I have described is there another potential source of noise I should explore? When I stop by the dealership it never makes the suspect tapping sounds. What does it cost to have both CCTs changed? I am hearing $1000 as long as the chain itself doesn�t have to be replaced and two weeks down time. Does this sound right? I have also read various threads that recommend living with the CCT noise until it gets too bad. If the CCT is making noise, is this an optional repair if you can live with the noise or is it a repair best made before it gets worse? Fear not. The bike will not break or have performance issues, if the CCT.(s), are noisy. I replaced all the guides, nylons, and the CCTs. Decided to live with the noise of them, and the clutch noise. Basically, nature of the beast. There was a thread 'round here on how to make them better. (If I recall, it was through making the spring tighter). Reguardless of what you decide to do, know that it is not going to strand you. (Not the cct's, anyhow). Sucks that the oil pock up is on the right side, as the clutch basket, and the CCT's. (I have 33,000 +, [23,000 since all of my efforts]).

Cam chain tensioners have been at the root of the noise you seem to be describing. If it is the CCT, it is historically the front tensioner. I don't ever recall hearing about anyone having the rear start making noise.

There are a lot of threads on this... do a forum search for Cam Tensioner

If you have any mechanical skills this is a job you can do yourself. I believe you can live with the noise a long time with no real damage (hondalover and others have/did) but it is really an easy cheap fix. But be aware it will most likely come back in time/miles.

The CCT noise that many here have experienced is not the classic chain rattle from too little spring tension with the adjuster. It is actually the mechanism inside the adjuster rattling in it's case. Air has gotten into the adjuster instead of oil. The front adjuster is usually the one because of its position angle. Decreased oil flow can be the problem. Using too thick oil or using an old or aftermarket oil filter can bring this on.

Mine started rattling when I changed the oil with out changing the oil filter one two many times. At 10k miles on the filter it began to rattle when cold. Since I replaced the filter with OEM it has not rattled for several months now. Others have reported using different oil made it go away. I use Castrol GTX 10W40 and with 80k miles on the original tensioners they are perfectly quiet.

[image: View Post]Allen, on 20 June 2010 - 03:28 PM, said:

What does it cost to have both CCTs changed? I am hearing $1000 as long as the chain itself doesn’t have to be replaced and two weeks down time. Does this sound right?


WHAT?! More like $100 and about forty minutes of downtime!

Serioiusly, read the threads here in the maintenance forums, but the CCT replacement procedure is essentially:

• Lift tank
  
• Remove airbox
  
• Remove front CCT
  
• Install new one
  
• Job done

And if you also do the rear CCT you just have to:

• Remove right footpeg bracket
  
• Remove exhaust heat shield
  
• Remove CCT
  
• Install new one
  
• Job done

[image: View Post]kaldek, on 20 June 2010 - 04:35 PM, said:

WHAT?! More like $100 and about forty minutes of downtime



:+1: to everything Kaldek said.

sounds like the large quote given considered replacing cam chains, which is not needed.
you can replace the cct it may not make noise again for a while or start right back up a couple weeks later

The answer though is in the oil, ive had issue with some of the (ma) friction rated mc oils and diesils with cct noise. Since switching to car oils, no more issue. over 40,000 mile since switching

BUt if you prefer an Mc oil , might try a light weight motul product or maxima, they normally have a little moly in them which may do as well as some of the car oils.

But invest $10 in a car oil and see how it does, before sheeling out $100 for a new tensioner and waste your time replacing a CCT. Exxon superflow 10w40 is my recommend, avaliable at pepboys

I've been running Mobil1 Highmilege oil recently, no noise with it,

As someone who has taken apart and analyzed the CCTs several times now, I still believe that CCTs don't "go bad". You can add more tension to the spring that pushes the wormgear against the cam chain guide and, yes, I do believe that your choice of oil will affect the CCT performance. If you look at the CCT after taking it off, there is a thin metal gasket with a tiny pin hole through which oil must be forced to reach the internals of the CCT, that is to say, I don't think you are getting much oil flow through the CCT internals. My belief is that if you use a heavier weight oil (heavier than the recommended 10W40) the decreased viscosity tends to provide more resistance to the spring. The spring is a relatively flimsy thing, but has on the order of 50 to 60 turns or so. You might imagine that decreasing the viscosity of oil that is sitting in between each and every one of those coils can amount to a fair amount of resistance, relatively speaking that is. So in the end, and from my experience, I believe that you need to make sure you have the proper amount of tension on the CCT spring AND the recommended weight oil that is clean (i.e. - don't increase the tension on the spring when you are 2000 miles over due for an oil change and then expect the knocking to stop. It WILL come back). Ultimately, if anything goes bad on the CCT, it's the spring itself, which I will grant you looses material strength over time, but I don't know what duration of that "time frame" can reasonably be expected to be.

I also concur that the front CCT seems to typically be the trouble maker.

BTW, I run Mobile1 10W40, 34K+ on the clock, and have fixed my CCT knocking problems WITHOUT replacing the CCTs.
Spend the time to fiddle with them and you may be happier that you saved a couple benjamins.

[image: View Post]Allen, on 20 June 2010 - 03:28 PM, said:

2003 VFR800 with 32,000 miles sometimes makes a tapping sound that is too loud to be normal. I have read the posts and it sounds like a worn Cam Chain Tensioner. I can go days with no noise and some mornings the noise begins as soon as the engine is started while in neutral and at idle and will go away after the engine warms up, but when I ride for a few blocks and stop for a red light, I will hear the tapping and with a gentle engine rev the noise will stop. Other times when the engine is running normal, I gently rev the engine and will hear the tapping for around 15 seconds before it stops.

From what I have described is there another potential source of noise I should explore?

When I stop by the dealership it never makes the suspect tapping sounds. What does it cost to have both CCTs changed? I am hearing $1000 as long as the chain itself doesn�t have to be replaced and two weeks down time. Does this sound right?

I have also read various threads that recommend living with the CCT noise until it gets too bad. If the CCT is making noise, is this an optional repair if you can live with the noise or is it a repair best made before it gets worse?


Thanks to everyone for the quick reasponse! Many of you suggested that changing the oil I use may solve the problem. For the first 28,000 miles I used the stock honda 10W-40 oil. About 4,000 miles ago I switched to Repsol 4T 100% Synthetic / 10W-30. Has anyone had any problems with the Repsol oil?

Dude, buy a new tensioner.

Part 14520-MCW-013, $80.

Interesting to note though that the part number changed in 2006. The old part number ended in 003.

[image: View Post]Allen, on 21 June 2010 - 12:04 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Allen, on 20 June 2010 - 03:28 PM, said:

2003 VFR800 with 32,000 miles sometimes makes a tapping sound that is too loud to be normal. I have read the posts and it sounds like a worn Cam Chain Tensioner. I can go days with no noise and some mornings the noise begins as soon as the engine is started while in neutral and at idle and will go away after the engine warms up, but when I ride for a few blocks and stop for a red light, I will hear the tapping and with a gentle engine rev the noise will stop. Other times when the engine is running normal, I gently rev the engine and will hear the tapping for around 15 seconds before it stops.

From what I have described is there another potential source of noise I should explore?

When I stop by the dealership it never makes the suspect tapping sounds. What does it cost to have both CCTs changed? I am hearing $1000 as long as the chain itself doesn't have to be replaced and two weeks down time. Does this sound right?

I have also read various threads that recommend living with the CCT noise until it gets too bad. If the CCT is making noise, is this an optional repair if you can live with the noise or is it a repair best made before it gets worse?


Thanks to everyone for the quick reasponse! Many of you suggested that changing the oil I use may solve the problem. For the first 28,000 miles I used the stock honda 10W-40 oil. About 4,000 miles ago I switched to Repsol 4T 100% Synthetic / 10W-30. Has anyone had any problems with the Repsol oil?



I've not used repsol, but even mobil one mc oil will have cct clack and mobil1 15w50 car oil. But 10w40 coventional Car oils seem to have properties that better lubricate the internals of the cct , and that equals no Klack.

10w40 motorcraft is also another known good one (avoid 20w50 car oils)

[image: View Post]kaldek, on 21 June 2010 - 05:05 AM, said:

Dude, buy a new tensioner.

Part 14520-MCW-013, $80.

Interesting to note though that the part number changed in 2006. The old part number ended in 003.



I replaced a cct, $100 down the drain and my time, as the new one started making the same noise, replacing these cct's is temporary at best, thats why you have people whove replacing 3 or 4 times over the life of the bike including cam chains. replacing doesnt solve the problem other than temporary if your lucky enough to get one thats quet.

Ive seen no improvements with part number changes on these cct's , mine was the latest number at the time. Directly oreder through Ayers via Honda.

$10 is all it takes with a conventional car oil (3 bottles) dont even need to change the filter , its so simple. You guys make stuff so fnk hard its rediculous

[image: View Post]spud786, on 21 June 2010 - 06:10 AM, said:

I replaced a cct, $100 down the drain and my time, as the new one started making the same noise, replacing these cct's is temporary at best, thats why you have people whove replacing 3 or 4 times over the life of the bike including cam chains. replacing doesnt solve the problem other than temporary if your lucky enough to get one thats quet.

Ive seen no improvements with part number changes on these cct's , mine was the latest number at the time. Directly oreder through Ayers via Honda.

$10 is all it takes with a conventional car oil (3 bottles) dont even need to change the filter , its so simple. You guys make stuff so fnk hard its rediculous


Dude, you having a few too many beers tonight or what? Every time I've changed my CCT's the bike has stayed quiet for another 20,000km or more. We're all just talking from experience mate!

Mine hasn't rattled for a long time, and I use car oil too (10w40 Shell Helix synthetic). So you're probably right too, but replacing CCTs does also provide a fix (even if 20,000km is temporary).

For those that decide to replace there CCT's just remember to CAREFULLY remove the unit from the head because there's a metal cap over the plunger that could be dislodged and drop into the engine. Some fit tightly and others are loose.

I bolted up a new front one somewhere around 45K because mine was rattling anytime the bike was running. After 15 minutes I could hear a rattle with the new one but it soon went away. A few thousand miles later it came back with a vengeance and again went away. I haven't heard it in 2K or 3K miles. Oh and I've been running Racing 4T. If I hear it again I'll just push my earplugs in a little further.

[image: View Post]kaldek, on 21 June 2010 - 06:58 AM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 21 June 2010 - 06:10 AM, said:

I replaced a cct, $100 down the drain and my time, as the new one started making the same noise, replacing these cct's is temporary at best, thats why you have people whove replacing 3 or 4 times over the life of the bike including cam chains. replacing doesnt solve the problem other than temporary if your lucky enough to get one thats quet.

Ive seen no improvements with part number changes on these cct's , mine was the latest number at the time. Directly oreder through Ayers via Honda.

$10 is all it takes with a conventional car oil (3 bottles) dont even need to change the filter , its so simple. You guys make stuff so fnk hard its rediculous


Dude, you having a few too many beers tonight or what? Every time I've changed my CCT's the bike has stayed quiet for another 20,000km or more. We're all just talking from experience mate!

Mine hasn't rattled for a long time, and I use car oil too (10w40 Shell Helix synthetic). So you're probably right too, but replacing CCTs does also provide a fix (even if 20,000km is temporary).


20km? try 1000 mile on my new cct if that, Where you klacking on your helix oil previously?

My only point, you want him to throw away $100 and his time, for a temporay fix that has been exposed over and over on this board for years as replacing tensioners the noise comes back . Im saying that can be permanantly and easily fixed for $10 and never have klacking ccts again .

Seems pretty simple
if the oil doesnt fix , then by all means go at a new cct,
But Do this and those tentioners become life time items, whisper quiet

I have no intension of ever replacing a vfr cct again , as I have no issue with cct klack:biggrin: and thats well over 40,000 mile on the brand new klacking tentioner that hasnt klack since coverting t , that was fixed with car oil and the rear cct is at 74 ,000 mile never been replaced, thats around 90km in ozzy conversion

[image: View Post]Lee 2002, on 20 June 2010 - 04:21 PM, said:

Cam chain tensioners have been at the root of the noise you seem to be describing. If it is the CCT, it is historically the front tensioner. I don't ever recall hearing about anyone having the rear start making noise.


Just replaced the rear CCT on my VFR (29k miles) and, if the shop that did the warranty work is correct, this is the SECOND rear that went bad on this bike. I had thought they had replaced the front one about 10k miles ago but per their records it was the rear. Go figure.

[image: View Post]PorradaVFR, on 25 June 2010 - 04:29 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Lee 2002, on 20 June 2010 - 04:21 PM, said:

Cam chain tensioners have been at the root of the noise you seem to be describing. If it is the CCT, it is historically the front tensioner. I don't ever recall hearing about anyone having the rear start making noise.


Just replaced the rear CCT on my VFR (29k miles) and, if the shop that did the warranty work is correct, this is the SECOND rear that went bad on this bike. I had thought they had replaced the front one about 10k miles ago but per their records it was the rear. Go figure.


Is it still making noise? alot of people replace the rears , but the rear would actually have to be bad to make noise, it pretty much submerged in oil. Maybe you've had a front issue the whole time , they are just to lazy to do the front.

Mostly, on vfr tensioners, there no difference between a bad one and a good one, or youd be hard pressed to find the difference.

The main issue with the vfr front tensioner, it sits vertical on top of the motor, if the internal body gets dry it will oscillate and make noise. People have tried to increase the spring tension to hold the internals togther tighter , and maybe that has helped in some cases. or even removing the metal cap has shown success. Actually adjusting winding is very technique sensitive, the whole thing can easliy implode and unwind if your hand slips.

But you can also back out the mounting screws 2mm and let the tensioner advance in the bike, then retighten (grately increases tension, this test was How I knew its wasnt chain rattle, as the noise was still there that pungler advanced alot and never backed off, I noted the position of the adjustment screw (it never moved), Which eventually lead me to the real reason the tensioner body itself oscillates internally due to lack of lubrication. Took me along time to catch which tensioner with stethoscope.

I didnt have any tensioner noise till 20,000 mile. Was on amsoil , but switched to various types of oil after that over the next ten thousand miles, and cct noise began almost immediately leaving the amsoil( i never put the oil equation together), . The oils were mc oil to diesil a huge range. Experimenting and testing tensioner adjustment till around 30,000 mile was futile I was fed up with kronic noise and bought a new tensioner. The new one began making noise almost immediatley, completely wasting my time and money. I was pissed. But I knew this as it had already been dealt with by rvcycko. New tensioners only temporily fix the issue at best, if at all.

I was tired of paying money for expensive oil, and just happed to buy some simple 10w40 valvoline car oil for an oil change, 50 mile later , Holy shit no cct idle noise. Next I switched to Exxon 10w40, which is much better shift oil. Motorcraft 10w40 works too. But I've been noise free on these 10w40 car oils since around 35,000 mile, now 74,000. The last two changes have been on mobile 1 HMile car oil, no noise with that.

But the cct front tensioners seem to like the 10w40 mb rated car oils, they are alttle slicker than the MA type , but work fine in the clutch. I've used in offroad application for years, much more abusive than the street.

BUt I suspect there are some mc oils that will acheived the same result. But listed above, the Exxon and the motocraft are proven top simple and cheap fixes to try , before you waste your time and money for a temporary fix

Can't argue with Spud's experience because it is what it is.

Since so many people use "car oil" instead of mc oil with no clutch problems, why is mc oil even recommended for a VFR? I can't recall ever reading a post that said "switching to car oil caused my clutch to slip". Isn't that rather uncanny? FWIW, I'm right at 30,000 miles on Amsoil mc oil with no issues. Staying with it since it has caused no problems...so far.... :blink:

I had cct klack at idle around 20,000 miles on my '04. I changed my Rotella T Synth / Suzuki MC oil mix to Rotella T Synth / Castrol MC oil and the klack went away. Since then I've not had it come back on me, even though I'm back to Rotella / Suzuki oil. Fresh Purolator "Civic" filter every time.

I figured it would either get worse, stay the same, or get better. It got better. If it comes back I'll probably try something really exotic like Chevron Delo 400 and Motorex BMW Boxer mix just to scare the klack away.

What's funny is that I didn't consider a Ducati when I wanted a new bike a few years ago because of "all the valvetrain problems" so instead I got a VFR Vtec. There's something ironic in there somewhere I'm sure...

Ironic that this couldn't be an issue on 3, 4 and 5 gens. Apparently Honda just couldn't stand a good thing (or maybe chains are cheaper than gears). :mad: If noise was the issue they should have just cut the gears helically rather than straight. Honda should recall these and keep owners happy, but they must only issue recalls when NHTSA has a gun to their head for "safety issues" - like inadequate wiring. Anyone at Honda listening? How could you build such a great bike and stick owners with two issues that drive them nuts? Now I'm watching the clock tick until my 6g starts its death rattle . . .

[image: View Post]Cogswell, on 27 June 2010 - 12:41 AM, said:

Ironic that this couldn't be an issue on 3, 4 and 5 gens. Apparently Honda just couldn't stand a good thing (or maybe chains are cheaper than gears). :mad: If noise was the issue they should have just cut the gears helically rather than straight. Honda should recall these and keep owners happy, but they must only issue recalls when NHTSA has a gun to their head for "safety issues" - like inadequate wiring. Anyone at Honda listening? How could you build such a great bike and stick owners with two issues that drive them nuts? Now I'm watching the clock tick until my 6g starts its death rattle . . .



Well, the Nice thing the noise doesnt stop the riding, and really I only had noise at idle for 10,000 mile till I fiqured out how to fix it.

But I hear in the last manuals Honda was recommending 10w30 oil, more than likely that would quelch the cct noise issue also.

I'm at 46k mi. on my '04 and started hearing what I believe is CCT noise recently. By coincidence, I used Mobil 1 4t Racing for the 1st time just before I left for TMac last month. Wasn't long after that I heard the CCT noise for the 1st time ever on my bike. Before this I had used either dino only or dino/syn blend oils, usually opting for Valvoline DuraBlend (in the blue bottle). Impossible to tell at this point whether one of my CCT's finally went around 45k mi. or if deluxe oil led to this.

Regardless, I'm not planning to replace either of the CCTs right away. If the noise stays intermittent as it is now, I can live with it for awhile and will swap the front CCT out this winter/off-season - probably in the early spring when I do some other annual maintenance work.


One question for the forum: I read somewhere that once you switch to full-synthetic oil you shouldn't go back to dino or blended oils. True or false? That doesn't sound right to me, but I ask because I'm thinking I might experiment and use dino or dino/syn blend for my next oil change and see if the CCT noise goes away. :unsure:

[image: View Post]vfrqqq, on 20 June 2010 - 10:32 PM, said:

As someone who has taken apart and analyzed the CCTs several times now, I still believe that CCTs don't "go bad". You can add more tension to the spring that pushes the wormgear against the cam chain guide and, yes, I do believe that your choice of oil will affect the CCT performance. If you look at the CCT after taking it off, there is a thin metal gasket with a tiny pin hole through which oil must be forced to reach the internals of the CCT, that is to say, I don't think you are getting much oil flow through the CCT internals. My belief is that if you use a heavier weight oil (heavier than the recommended 10W40) the decreased viscosity tends to provide more resistance to the spring. The spring is a relatively flimsy thing, but has on the order of 50 to 60 turns or so. You might imagine that decreasing the viscosity of oil that is sitting in between each and every one of those coils can amount to a fair amount of resistance, relatively speaking that is. So in the end, and from my experience, I believe that you need to make sure you have the proper amount of tension on the CCT spring AND the recommended weight oil that is clean (i.e. - don't increase the tension on the spring when you are 2000 miles over due for an oil change and then expect the knocking to stop. It WILL come back). Ultimately, if anything goes bad on the CCT, it's the spring itself, which I will grant you looses material strength over time, but I don't know what duration of that "time frame" can reasonably be expected to be.

I also concur that the front CCT seems to typically be the trouble maker.

BTW, I run Mobile1 10W40, 34K+ on the clock, and have fixed my CCT knocking problems WITHOUT replacing the CCTs.
Spend the time to fiddle with them and you may be happier that you saved a couple benjamins.




They are really easy to change. The manual says the throttle body has to be removed, it doesnt. It took me no more than 2 hours to do both and take my time.

I have ran 20-50 honda oil since new and my tensioners made it 55k miles before making noise. I just replaced both for good measure.

Just $.02 on the car oil thread through this . . . besides the CCT/ clutch issues affected by choice of oil, the oil is also dealing with high shear loads as it gets squeezed through the gears which can negatively affect viscosity and film strength - literally smashing the oil molecules. As the oil's film strength breaks down, there's less standing between the rod/main bearings and the journals in the reciprocating assembly. It can also negatively affect the wear surfaces on the gears as well. MC and diesel oil purportedly have additives that can stand up to that better - that car oils do not have and don't need. If I were running car oil, it would definitely be synthetic and I would probably change it more frequently - probably no longer than 3,000 miles between changes. Maybe that's overkill but worth it for me. It's too bad owners have to figure out how to balance this vs the CCT issue. YMMV.

[image: View Post]Cogswell, on 27 June 2010 - 02:41 AM, said:

Just $.02 on the car oil thread through this . . . besides the CCT/ clutch issues affected by choice of oil, the oil is also dealing with high shear loads as it gets squeezed through the gears which can negatively affect viscosity and film strength - literally smashing the oil molecules. As the oil's film strength breaks down, there's less standing between the rod/main bearings and the journals in the reciprocating assembly. It can also negatively affect the wear surfaces on the gears as well. MC and diesel oil purportedly have additives that can stand up to that better - that car oils do not have and don't need. If I were running car oil, it would definitely be synthetic and I would probably change it more frequently - probably no longer than 3,000 miles between changes. Maybe that's overkill but worth it for me. It's too bad owners have to figure out how to balance this vs the CCT issue. YMMV.



Yep, it's called shearing and has you say normal car oil doesnt have to deal with a trans and engine.

[image: View Post]TimC, on 27 June 2010 - 01:39 AM, said:

I'm at 46k mi. on my '04 and started hearing what I believe is CCT noise recently. By coincidence, I used Mobil 1 4t Racing for the 1st time just before I left for TMac last month. Wasn't long after that I heard the CCT noise for the 1st time ever on my bike. Before this I had used either dino only or dino/syn blend oils, usually opting for Valvoline DuraBlend (in the blue bottle). Impossible to tell at this point whether one of my CCT's finally went around 45k mi. or if deluxe oil led to this.

Regardless, I'm not planning to replace either of the CCTs right away. If the noise stays intermittent as it is now, I can live with it for awhile and will swap the front CCT out this winter/off-season - probably in the early spring when I do some other annual maintenance work.


One question for the forum: I read somewhere that once you switch to full-synthetic oil you shouldn't go back to dino or blended oils. True or false? That doesn't sound right to me, but I ask because I'm thinking I might experiment and use dino or dino/syn blend for my next oil change and see if the CCT noise goes away. :unsure:



you can go back , no problem

[image: View Post]Cogswell, on 27 June 2010 - 02:41 AM, said:

Just $.02 on the car oil thread through this . . . besides the CCT/ clutch issues affected by choice of oil, the oil is also dealing with high shear loads as it gets squeezed through the gears which can negatively affect viscosity and film strength - literally smashing the oil molecules. As the oil's film strength breaks down, there's less standing between the rod/main bearings and the journals in the reciprocating assembly. It can also negatively affect the wear surfaces on the gears as well. MC and diesel oil purportedly have additives that can stand up to that better - that car oils do not have and don't need. If I were running car oil, it would definitely be synthetic and I would probably change it more frequently - probably no longer than 3,000 miles between changes. Maybe that's overkill but worth it for me. It's too bad owners have to figure out how to balance this vs the CCT issue. YMMV.


I tpically run sub 3k change intervals any way, car oil being on the lower end. Exxon superflow and motorcraft are not pure Dino, they are hydro cracked syn oil. Its not labled that way or they'd have to charge syn prices. Its more via bulk and the way oils are made nowadays.

GTX , is dino, That stuff will plaque a motor

Other than extreme temp variance, the main benni of synthetic is in the cleaning ability. The wear metal numbers of anaylis do not show any real advantage with synthetics over conventionals.

Although car oils have been declinng in extreme pressure addditves, so have MC oils due to cats,

I had the CCT noise lately and changed my oil which seems to have solved the issue, at least for now.
If it comes back I'll change the CCTs out. I've been using synthetic car oils for a while now and had one oil change without changing a filter and that's when I noticed the change in sound/noise.
Don't think I'll be that lazy again and I'll just change the oil more regularly.

[image: View Post]superfunkomatic, on 27 June 2010 - 10:55 AM, said:

I had the CCT noise lately and changed my oil which seems to have solved the issue, at least for now.
If it comes back I'll change the CCTs out. I've been using synthetic car oils for a while now and had one oil change without changing a filter and that's when I noticed the change in sound/noise.
Don't think I'll be that lazy again and I'll just change the oil more regularly.



If running 15w50 mobil 1 , its klack prone too and so are 20w50 conventional car oils, they are too heavy to get oil up to the cct, more an issue when weather gets cold.

stick to 10w40 weights hydro cracked or 10w30, although a 10w30 I'd run very high grade synthetic .

I'm running 10w40 Mobil1 one HM oil for last 2 changes .no klack its takes 2 changes to be sure the new oil works on cct noise.

My motor run post 100 all the time, its really a track motor based use, I got over 40,000 thousand on exxon superflow and my motor is tighter than a drum, we wont get into my leaded race fuel diet. If you luv you motor you run Lead Baby!

[image: View Post]spud786, on 27 June 2010 - 02:57 PM, said:

[image: View Post]superfunkomatic, on 27 June 2010 - 10:55 AM, said:

I had the CCT noise lately and changed my oil which seems to have solved the issue, at least for now.
If it comes back I'll change the CCTs out. I've been using synthetic car oils for a while now and had one oil change without changing a filter and that's when I noticed the change in sound/noise.
Don't think I'll be that lazy again and I'll just change the oil more regularly.



If running 15w50 mobil 1 , its klack prone too and so are 20w50 conventional car oils, they are too heavy to get oil up to the cct, more an issue when weather gets cold.

stick to 10w40 weights hydro cracked or 10w30, although a 10w30 I'd run very high grade synthetic .

I'm running 10w40 Mobil1 one HM oil for last 2 changes .no klack its takes 2 changes to be sure the new oil works on cct noise.

My motor run post 100 all the time, its really a track motor based use, I got over 40,000 thousand on exxon superflow and my motor is tighter than a drum, we wont get into my leaded race fuel diet. If you luv you motor you run Lead Baby!




I wouldnt use 10-30. The manual staes 10-40 or 20-50. I run honda 20-50 because we have mild temps. I also use a little bit of lucas oil stabilizer. IDK, maybe it was luck but 56k miles beore mine went bas is pretty awesome relatively. Even then the noise was very intermitent. I changed them for piece of mind. There was no obvious diffirence between the frt. and rear but the noise is gone.

Use 10W40 in cooler temps. Remember W stands for winter, not weight.

ARRGG!!!  I'M SICK OF THIS CLACKETY CLACK!!!
Sitting at traffic lights, it reminds me of a Duccati exposed clutch, only worse.
I called APE and confirmed they have them for the 02-08 VFR.  I'm going to order them and was just wondering:

- has ANYONE installed these and had any issues with fitting?
- ANYONE interested in also buying, to see if we can get a little bulk order discount?

- ANYONE interested in travelling to the beautiful Okanagan for a mechanical afternoon, followed by all the beer, wine and beef you want? :blush:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 27 June 2010 - 01:04 AM, said:

But I hear in the last manuals Honda was recommending 10w30 oil, more than likely that would quelch the cct noise issue also.

This is true.  I bought a 2006-2007 manual off a guy who sold his 2006, and everywhere oil specs are mentioned Honda issued revisions to change "10w-40 or 10w-30" to "10w-30 only."

[image: View Post]soichiro, on 27 June 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

I wouldnt use 10-30. The manual staes 10-40 or 20-50.

What manual?  Must be an older one as stated in another post above.  It's not in mine.

[image: View Post]didit, on 07 July 2010 - 12:43 PM, said:

ARRGG!!!  I'M SICK OF THIS CLACKETY CLACK!!!
Sitting at traffic lights, it reminds me of a Duccati exposed clutch, only worse.
I called APE and confirmed they have them for the 02-08 VFR.  I'm going to order them and was just wondering:

- has ANYONE installed these and had any issues with fitting?
- ANYONE interested in also buying, to see if we can get a little bulk order discount?

- ANYONE interested in travelling to the beautiful Okanagan for a mechanical afternoon, followed by all the beer, wine and beef you want? :goofy:


What oil are you running right now thats alowing the klacking?

[image: View Post]didit, on 07 July 2010 - 12:43 PM, said:

I called APE and confirmed they have them for the 02-08 VFR.  I'm going to order them and was just wondering:

Apparently things have changed at APE.   This is a copy of an e-mail I recieved from them on April 5, 2010.

E-mail from A.P.E., on 05 April 2010, said:

Hello Lee,

Unfortunately it doesn't look like we have a tensioner that will work in your bike.  If you want you could send us one of your stock tensioners and we could take a look and see if we have a tensioner that will work in your application.  Let me know if you would be interested in doing this or if you have any other questions.

Thanks,DustinA.P.E.

661-256-7309
http://www.aperaceparts.com

[image: View Post]Lee 2002, on 07 July 2010 - 06:20 PM, said:

[image: View Post]didit, on 07 July 2010 - 12:43 PM, said:

I called APE and confirmed they have them for the 02-08 VFR.  I'm going to order them and was just wondering:

Apparently things have changed at APE.   This is a copy of an e-mail I recieved from them on April 5, 2010.


Interesting.  FWIW, APE shows the exact same part and gasket for VTECs, CBR600RRs, and CBR1000RRs.  A smarter-than-average bear might double-check the Honda part numbers and see if they are interchangeable...   :goofy:

On a manual adjuster, how do you know where to set it?  And do you just have to check it every once and a while?

[image: View Post]carlitos92, on 07 July 2010 - 06:44 PM, said:

Interesting.  FWIW, APE shows the exact same part and gasket for VTECs, CBR600RRs, and CBR1000RRs.  
At the time I was in contact with them, A.P.E. did not even mention the VFR on their website.  Some of their re-sellers did show the VFR as being a model available, and that was what I was attempting to verify.

I suspect A.P.E. has discovered there is a market available and either designed a new tensioner or verified that an existing design does indeed work.

[image: View Post]didit, on 07 July 2010 - 12:43 PM, said:

ARRGG!!!  I'M SICK OF THIS CLACKETY CLACK!!!
Sitting at traffic lights, it reminds me of a Duccati exposed clutch, only worse.
I called APE and confirmed they have them for the 02-08 VFR.  I'm going to order them and was just wondering:

- has ANYONE installed these and had any issues with fitting?
- ANYONE interested in also buying, to see if we can get a little bulk order discount?

- ANYONE interested in travelling to the beautiful Okanagan for a mechanical afternoon, followed by all the beer, wine and beef you want? :fing02:


DIDIT, what oil are your running right now, I want to mark it as a known cct issue oil?

[image: View Post]spud786, on 14 July 2010 - 09:35 PM, said:

DIDIT, what oil are your running right now, I want to mark it as a known cct issue oil?

The noise started on route to Colorado with standard oil.
Did a change in Portland to synthetic and still clackety at home.
Last change went to a 15 / 30 and really clackety.
Ditched the idea of APE manual tensioners and looking at replacing front with an OEM.
Called local Powerhouse and all of Canada is backordered - only 1 available!!!!!

Looking at ordering one from US for $85 + gasket + tax + shipping.

I just received my APE tensioners today.  I plan on getting the front one installed tomorrow, and don't really have any plan to replace the rear altough I did order two.  The instructions state to remove the rocker cover to check for proper chain tension.  I can tell you that I WON'T be doing be doing that.  I have a theory that I haven't heard expressed yet, I'll post it once I chat with a couple others.  FYI-the package states that the tensioner also fits a Polaris Predator.

[image: View Post]hondalover, on 14 July 2010 - 10:56 PM, said:

  FYI-the package states that the tensioner also fits a Polaris Predator.

Weird.

"APE part number XXXX, fits most Honda sportbikes, the Polaris Predator, and the '71-'74 Chevrolet Vega..."   :fing02:

[image: View Post]hondalover, on 14 July 2010 - 10:56 PM, said:

I just received my APE tensioners today.  I plan on getting the front one installed tomorrow, and don't really have any plan to replace the rear altough I did order two.  The instructions state to remove the rocker cover to check for proper chain tension.  I can tell you that I WON'T be doing be doing that.  I have a theory that I haven't heard expressed yet, I'll post it once I chat with a couple others.  FYI-the package states that the tensioner also fits a Polaris Predator.


Looking forward to your results.

[image: View Post]hondalover, on 14 July 2010 - 10:56 PM, said:

I have a theory that I haven't heard expressed yet, I'll post it once I chat with a couple others.  
I still have your flash-card video of the situation. Ditch work, come to the game, tell me all about the APE install and theory.

Got a spare, eh?  Hmmm?

standard oil.
Did a change in Portland to synthetic and still clackety at home.
Last change went to a 15 / 30 and really clackety.))))))))))))   Thats very vaque info

That really wasnt the recomend to fix the issue, but hope you enjoy the tensioner work.  Known cct good oils are motorcraft 10w40, Exxon suplerflow 10w40, Mobil1 hmilege 10w40 oil is fine. I havent spent the time on which mc oils are ideal

I've had zero tensioner noise in the last 45,000 miles.   I have 75,000 mile on the bike, my tentioner noise began around 20,000 mile coming off amsoil, and switching to diesil oils and some of the mobil1 motocycle oils. After replacing a tensioner at 30,000 mile and having noise come right back. I then stumbled on the FIX.

I wish you'd have tried the reccomend , but determined to take a different route, it all about choice I guess.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 15 July 2010 - 06:18 AM, said:

Known cct good oils are motorcraft 10w40, Exxon suplerflow 10w40, Mobil1 hmilege 10w40 oil is fine. I used Mobil 1 Racing 4T for my last oil change.  I believe I started hearing the CCT noise soon after.  Coincidence?  Could be, but my 6th gen. had ~44k mi. at the time.  (Now it's over 47k.)  Just bought a jug of Mobil 1 10W-40 High Mileage for my next oil change.  Looking forward to finding out whether the CCT noise stays or goes after the next oil change, which I'll likely do next month.

The noise doesn't really bother me, but it does worry me.  If the noise doesn't subside, I'll probably swap out the front CCT this off-season or maybe sooner.

Mine has been noisey for the last 10-15K, I've just ignored it.  It will go away for a few miles shortly after an oil change, but it always comes back.  Right now it's pretty noisey, so I'll be swapping out the CCT to the manual version and NOT changing my oil to lessen the likeihood of a false fix.  With the little bit of tinkering I've done with the CCT, I'm fairly certain that my noise will go away, AND I'll be able to run whatever oil my little brain decides on.

[image: View Post]TimC, on 15 July 2010 - 07:27 AM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 15 July 2010 - 06:18 AM, said:

Known cct good oils are motorcraft 10w40, Exxon suplerflow 10w40, Mobil1 hmilege 10w40 oil is fine. I used Mobil 1 Racing 4T for my last oil change.  I believe I started hearing the CCT noise soon after.  Coincidence?  Could be, but my 6th gen. had ~44k mi. at the time.  (Now it's over 47k.)  Just bought a jug of Mobil 1 10W-40 High Mileage for my next oil change.  Looking forward to finding out whether the CCT noise stays or goes after the next oil change, which I'll likely do next month.

The noise doesn't really bother me, but it does worry me.  If the noise doesn't subside, I'll probably swap out the front CCT this off-season or maybe sooner.


The mobil1 4t us a known klacker oil, by previous experience even the 15w50 car oil and especially the 20w50 4t

[image: View Post]hondalover, on 15 July 2010 - 09:37 AM, said:

Mine has been noisey for the last 10-15K, I've just ignored it.  It will go away for a few miles shortly after an oil change, but it always comes back.  Right now it's pretty noisey, so I'll be swapping out the CCT to the manual version and NOT changing my oil to lessen the likeihood of a false fix.  With the little bit of tinkering I've done with the CCT, I'm fairly certain that my noise will go away, AND I'll be able to run whatever oil my little brain decides on.


If you put a maual tensioner on it , that will cure the issue to run what ever oil you want.  sometimes manual tensioners leak , but maybe not an issue in the front location.

Not through the base, but the bolted threaded portion even though they normally have an oring,

[image: View Post]TimC, on 15 July 2010 - 07:27 AM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 15 July 2010 - 06:18 AM, said:

Known cct good oils are motorcraft 10w40, Exxon suplerflow 10w40, Mobil1 hmilege 10w40 oil is fine. I used Mobil 1 Racing 4T for my last oil change.  I believe I started hearing the CCT noise soon after.  Coincidence?  Could be, but my 6th gen. had ~44k mi. at the time.  (Now it's over 47k.)  Just bought a jug of Mobil 1 10W-40 High Mileage for my next oil change.  Looking forward to finding out whether the CCT noise stays or goes after the next oil change, which I'll likely do next month.

The noise doesn't really bother me, but it does worry me.  If the noise doesn't subside, I'll probably swap out the front CCT this off-season or maybe sooner.

I was pissed after spending $100 and my time on a new tentioner

[image: View Post]spud786, on 15 July 2010 - 07:39 PM, said:

[image: View Post]TimC, on 15 July 2010 - 07:27 AM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 15 July 2010 - 06:18 AM, said:

Known cct good oils are motorcraft 10w40, Exxon suplerflow 10w40, Mobil1 hmilege 10w40 oil is fine. I used Mobil 1 Racing 4T for my last oil change.  I believe I started hearing the CCT noise soon after.  Coincidence?  Could be, but my 6th gen. had ~44k mi. at the time.  (Now it's over 47k.)  Just bought a jug of Mobil 1 10W-40 High Mileage for my next oil change.  Looking forward to finding out whether the CCT noise stays or goes after the next oil change, which I'll likely do next month.

The noise doesn't really bother me, but it does worry me.  If the noise doesn't subside, I'll probably swap out the front CCT this off-season or maybe sooner.


The mobil1 4t us a known klacker oil, by previous experience even the 15w50 car oil and especially the 20w50 4t


Not on mine.  It clacked a little the same day I installed a new tensioner then went away.  A thousand miles or say after that it started  clacking again but went away and has been silent for several thousand miles.  It's really hard to say specific oils work and others don't because not every single owner has CCT clackity clack.  Maybe a new poll is in order to get a better idea.

I do know that my bike didn't clack early on with the Mobil 1 10-40 4T, but it did as of about 3 hours ago.  Now with the manual APE CCT it is silent.  Now as for ajustment, I will simply need to remove the seat, prop the tank up, use my rachet & extension with a 16mm crows-foot to loosen the lock-nut, then replace the crows-foot with 16mm socket and adjust the tensioner.  I am100% sure that I can accomplish this in less than 10 minutes, from the time I roll the bike onto the lift, to the time I roll it off.  
So pay the 65 bones and get a manual tensioner.  Then you can run whatever oil you want to in your precious VFR.

[image: View Post]dutchinterceptor, on 15 July 2010 - 08:08 PM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 15 July 2010 - 07:39 PM, said:

[image: View Post]TimC, on 15 July 2010 - 07:27 AM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 15 July 2010 - 06:18 AM, said:

Known cct good oils are motorcraft 10w40, Exxon suplerflow 10w40, Mobil1 hmilege 10w40 oil is fine. I used Mobil 1 Racing 4T for my last oil change.  I believe I started hearing the CCT noise soon after.  Coincidence?  Could be, but my 6th gen. had ~44k mi. at the time.  (Now it's over 47k.)  Just bought a jug of Mobil 1 10W-40 High Mileage for my next oil change.  Looking forward to finding out whether the CCT noise stays or goes after the next oil change, which I'll likely do next month.

The noise doesn't really bother me, but it does worry me.  If the noise doesn't subside, I'll probably swap out the front CCT this off-season or maybe sooner.


The mobil1 4t us a known klacker oil, by previous experience even the 15w50 car oil and especially the 20w50 4t


Not on mine.  It clacked a little the same day I installed a new tensioner then went away.  A thousand miles or say after that it started  clacking again but went away and has been silent for several thousand miles.  It's really hard to say specific oils work and others don't because not every single owner has CCT clackity clack.  Maybe a new poll is in order to get a better idea.


when winter returns see what it does then(note this too).  I've run the oils I posted in both cold and heat over 2years with no klack, and I had heavy klack, new tentioner was as bad if not worse than the one replaced. Same tensioner has been noise free, since day 1 running the first 50 mile on valvoline car oil(10w40), since then I ran exxon super10w40 and Motorcraft 10w40 no issue, which reallly are better oils than the valoline . I was skeptical running the mobil1 HM having klack before, but the HM mobil1 car oil has been fine.

$10 oil change, and a couple year of no noise, alot easier than messing with the cost of a OEM new tensioner. Its a gamble, maybe you get one thats klack free.

But you have people not even willing to devulge, what chance do they have adjusting a manual LOL!

[image: View Post]hondalover, on 15 July 2010 - 08:45 PM, said:

So pay the 65 bones and get a manual tensioner.
GTFOH....   $65....   now I'm pissed. So, you have a spare, Eh?

[image: View Post]Lee 2002, on 15 July 2010 - 09:56 PM, said:

[image: View Post]hondalover, on 15 July 2010 - 08:45 PM, said:

So pay the 65 bones and get a manual tensioner.
GTFOH....   $65....   now I'm pissed. So, you have a spare, Eh?
It was actually $125.58 for two tensioners and two new gaskets (without the oiling hole), so for one it would have been $62.79.  Does that make ya feel any better?  I'll be bringing the spare to the K if I remember for us to gander at, as well as your old one (I have an old one of my own now).

So, as I read this thread, I have yet to read that the "klacking" has caused any engine damage.  So why not just let it klack and ride on?  There doesn't seem to be a permanent fix from what I read.   What am I missing here?

[image: View Post]Bent, on 16 July 2010 - 06:42 PM, said:

So, as I read this thread, I have yet to read that the "klacking" has caused any engine damage.  So why not just let it klack and ride on?  There doesn't seem to be a permanent fix from what I read.   What am I missing here?


I found my permanent fix 45,000 mile ago, what you talking bout willis?

It was only in hine sight I realized I came off amsoil when all the klacking began with all the diessil and the mc oils I ran, but I have not ran amsoil oil since that time to see , i dont have acess to it. Its just a piffany looking back 60,000 mile ago when  i started having the duck klack.

My bike is noise free and has been for a long time? You cant read black and white print, and  think it means today or yesterday.
it could mean 15 years ago

[image: View Post]Bent, on 16 July 2010 - 06:42 PM, said:

So why not just let it klack and ride on? There doesn't seem to be a permanent fix from what I read.   What am I missing here?


For me anyway.... It was annoying as hell to have all that noise when I pulled into the parking lot at work and have my Honda sound like a truck-full-of-gravel in front of the Hardly riding co-workers.


There are several fixes.... 1) Decide to replace the tensioner as needed just like a consumable maintenance part.   2) Spud asserts you can run one of his various listed oils and cure the problem.  3)  Put on a manual tensioner like Hondalover did.

Note on 1) We all have to maintain various parts of our motorcycle (brakes, tires, sparkplugs, lamps, etc) there are parts that are going to break or wear.  We could decided to treat the CCT as one of these items and replace as needed. Note on 2)  If you happen to be a fan of one of Spud's listed oils you can try his fix and run one of them.   I suspect most people here have strong positions on oils and aren't going to change what brand or formulation of oil they are running in an attempt to appease the noise gods.   Note on 3)  This would be the most permanent solution, but much like your final drive chain it would require periodic adjustment as needed.

Nothing.   I think you are up-to-speed.  It is just an annoying noise issue that most people would rather their motorcycle not make.   It can be loud and even the casual non-motorcycling observer know that it's not a noise a well running motorcycle should make.

[image: View Post]Lee 2002, on 16 July 2010 - 09:02 PM, said:

   It can be loud and even the casual non-motorcycling observer know that it's not a noise a well running motorcycle should make.
My wife, the most non-mechanical person on the face of the earth (ok, that may be a strech, but clueless when it comes to abnormal engine noises) told me when I started my bike one day, that "it sounds sick".
This made that noise go away, and it won't matter what type of oil I use. :huh:
[image: Posted Image]
APE manual CCT installed in an '05 VFR

I agree with those above who said just consider CCTs normal wear and tear parts that have to be replaced periodically.

[image: View Post]Lee 2002, on 16 July 2010 - 09:02 PM, said:

I suspect most people here have strong positions on oils and aren't going to change what brand or formulation of oil they are running in an attempt to appease the noise gods. I'm not one of those people.  I'm willing to experiment a bit.  Will be curious to see if the next oil change 'fixes' the noise.  If not, maybe the next different oil will do it.  Worst case scenario, I'll just replace the stupid CCT.   :biggrin:

BTW, I bet the 6th gen. haters are laughing their asses off at this thread!   :laughing6-hehe:

congrats on the manual cct, any thing you didnt like?

[image: View Post]spud786, on 16 July 2010 - 10:54 PM, said:

congrats on the manual cct, any thing you didnt like?
Anything I didn't like about what???  I didn't like the noise my bike had been making for the past 2 years or so, so I fix it.  I want to run a particular brand of oil, that I think does a good job of lubrication.  I was willing to put up with that noise until I could come up with a fix and still use the oil I'm comfortable with.  As far as adjusting a manual tensioner, from what I've seen all 6th gen have a drive chain that has to be adjusted occasionally.  I'm pretty certain that a chain that is constantly running in oil and is in a semi-controlled environment (sealed inside an engine) will need far less maintance than the drive chain that is subject to all sorts of road grime, salt, sand, and who knows what else.  If anyone is on the fence about replacing their CCT with another OEM unit, I would highly recommend the manual version.  Plus, the manual version price will save you enough money that you can buy a couple quarts of the oil of your choice!!!!  How's that for a sales pitch?

Edited for clarification.

willis here.....thanks...now I know!  BTW, I use Amsoil 10w-40 and don't have the klack.....so far.

[image: View Post]hondalover, on 17 July 2010 - 04:44 AM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 16 July 2010 - 10:54 PM, said:

congrats on the manual cct, any thing you didnt like?
Anything I didn't like about what???  I didn't like the noise my bike had been making for the past 2 years or so, so I fix it.  I want to run a particular brand of oil, that I think does a good job of lubrication.  I was willing to put up with that noise until I could come up with a fix and still use the oil I'm comfortable with.  As far as adjusting a manual tensioner, from what I've seen all 6th gen have a drive chain that has to be adjusted occasionally.  I'm pretty certain that a chain that is constantly running in oil and is in a semi-controlled environment (sealed inside an engine) will need far less maintance than the drive chain that is subject to all sorts of road grime, salt, sand, and who knows what else.  If anyone is on the fence about replacing their CCT with another OEM unit, I would highly recommend the manual version.  Plus, the manual version price will save you enough money that you can buy a couple quarts of the oil of your choice!!!!  How's that for a sales pitch?

Edited for clarification.

I was simply asking if the tensioner was machined well and fit correctly, rather than a short story on how I wont be tormented with oil,.,,  How did you get to the shaft locking nut? It seem a very difficult location to get good torque on. Special tool or what?

you can count the turns with a smal screwdriver  on a auto tensioner, they raarely move much . 1 and 1/4 turn is about normal ,

[image: View Post]Bent, on 17 July 2010 - 06:44 AM, said:

willis here.....thanks...now I know!  BTW, I use Amsoil 10w-40 and don't have the klack.....so far.


Yeh bent I never went back and retried the amsoil. I'd come off of it .cause I moved and it was harder to locate, plus I was trying to save money, thats about the time, all the klacking began. I was running diesils and other mc oils for next 10,000 mile with routine klacking.  Never dawned on me oil would make a difference. But the front auto cct is in a unique position.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 17 July 2010 - 07:01 AM, said:

How did you get to the shaft locking nut?  

[image: View Post]hondalover, on 15 July 2010 - 08:45 PM, said:

crows-foot to loosen the lock-nut,



I have not seen this particular manual tensioner, yet.   But I would probably see about modifiying it by removing the adjusting nut (probably pinned or loctited on).  Then I would slot the adjusting thread to accept a straight screwdriver.   Then it could easily be adjusted with a socket-over-screwdriver adjusting wrench.

[image: View Post]hondalover, on 16 July 2010 - 09:55 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Lee 2002, on 16 July 2010 - 09:02 PM, said:

   It can be loud and even the casual non-motorcycling observer know that it's not a noise a well running motorcycle should make.
My wife, the most non-mechanical person on the face of the earth (ok, that may be a strech, but clueless when it comes to abnormal engine noises) told me when I started my bike one day, that "it sounds sick".
This made that noise go away, and it won't matter what type of oil I use. :pinocchio:
[image: Posted Image]
APE manual CCT installed in an '05 VFR

Do you have the APE part number for that tensioner?
Think I have the UK's loudest VFR,what with the CCT's and clutch basket noises!

[image: View Post]spud786, on 26 June 2010 - 03:43 PM, said:

[image: View Post]PorradaVFR, on 25 June 2010 - 04:29 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Lee 2002, on 20 June 2010 - 04:21 PM, said:

Cam chain tensioners have been at the root of the noise you seem to be describing.   If it is the CCT, it is historically the front tensioner.  I don't ever recall hearing about anyone having the rear start making noise.

Just replaced the rear CCT on my VFR (29k miles) and, if the shop that did the warranty work is correct, this is the SECOND rear that went bad on this bike.  I had thought they had replaced the front one about 10k miles ago but per their records it was the rear.  Go figure.

Is it still making noise? alot of people replace the rears , but the rear would actually have to be bad to make noise, it pretty much submerged in oil. Maybe you've had a front issue the whole time , they are just to lazy to do the front.

Nope - it was definitely the rear, replaced with new and bike is nice and quiet once again.   :pinocchio:

Just installed the APE tensioner and wondering about the initial adjustment without removing the cam cover?
Hondalover, if you are out there?.....

I too have now joined the ranks of those with the APE manual CCT installed and I gotta tell ya, it's like heavan again!
Took a trip to visit cassandtim in Wenatchee, where we spent a few hours in the afternoon swaping out the OEM, with great success.
My mechanical leader had to fasion the tensioner tool from thin air  ---  well, okay he used an old hacksaw blade.

[image: Posted Image]
cct tool maker.JPG

[image: Posted Image]
cct tool.JPG

Never even removed the coolant hose.  Just improvised with another tool too move it slightly out of the way.

[image: Posted Image]
cct with hose puller.JPG

Once installed, we started her up and adjusted the amount of tension by vibration feel.  You can finger tighten the bolt quite easily and obviously,
then when running I eased it out 3 1/8th turns, vibration increased so I went back in 1.5 1/8th turns and sinched it down.
The following day, a 5 hour ride home and all rides since have been in perfect silence.
We even cleaned out & re-lubricated my K&N, and I'll tell you she's running and sounding better than I can remember!

Now I too have a spair CCT for the rear (should I ever need it) and this offer.
If anyone should be doing this job and need the OEM tool to retract the spring, simply PM me with your name & address & I'll mail you this beauty,
but like the flaf, it must be kept available for others and returned after use.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 26 June 2010 - 03:43 PM, said:

I was tired of paying money for expensive oil, and just happed to buy some simple 10w40 valvoline car oil for an oil change, 50 mile later , Holy shit no cct idle noise.  Next I switched to Exxon 10w40, which is much better shift oil. Motorcraft 10w40 works too. But I've been noise free on these 10w40 car oils since around 35,000 mile, now 74,000.   The last two changes have been on mobile 1 HMile  car oil, no noise with that.

But the cct front tensioners seem to like the 10w40 mb rated car oils, they are alttle slicker than the MA type , but work fine in the clutch. I've used in offroad application for years, much more abusive than the street.

BUt I suspect there are some mc oils that will acheived the same result. But listed above, the Exxon and the motocraft are proven top simple and cheap fixes to try , before you waste your time and money for a temporary fix

I hoped this would do it for me but I didn't have any luck.   I replaced my front tensioner and no more noise.

[image: View Post]HenryCdn, on 15 August 2010 - 07:25 PM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 26 June 2010 - 03:43 PM, said:

I was tired of paying money for expensive oil, and just happed to buy some simple 10w40 valvoline car oil for an oil change, 50 mile later , Holy shit no cct idle noise.  Next I switched to Exxon 10w40, which is much better shift oil. Motorcraft 10w40 works too. But I've been noise free on these 10w40 car oils since around 35,000 mile, now 74,000.   The last two changes have been on mobile 1 HMile  car oil, no noise with that.

But the cct front tensioners seem to like the 10w40 mb rated car oils, they are alttle slicker than the MA type , but work fine in the clutch. I've used in offroad application for years, much more abusive than the street.

BUt I suspect there are some mc oils that will acheived the same result. But listed above, the Exxon and the motocraft are proven top simple and cheap fixes to try , before you waste your time and money for a temporary fix

I hoped this would do it for me but I didn't have any luck.   I replaced my front tensioner and no more noise.

What oil did you run?   If then new tentioner doesnt last, atleast you have a manual option now

[image: View Post]spud786, on 15 August 2010 - 08:22 PM, said:

[image: View Post]HenryCdn, on 15 August 2010 - 07:25 PM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 26 June 2010 - 03:43 PM, said:

I was tired of paying money for expensive oil, and just happed to buy some simple 10w40 valvoline car oil for an oil change, 50 mile later , Holy shit no cct idle noise.  Next I switched to Exxon 10w40, which is much better shift oil. Motorcraft 10w40 works too. But I've been noise free on these 10w40 car oils since around 35,000 mile, now 74,000.   The last two changes have been on mobile 1 HMile  car oil, no noise with that.

But the cct front tensioners seem to like the 10w40 mb rated car oils, they are alttle slicker than the MA type , but work fine in the clutch. I've used in offroad application for years, much more abusive than the street.

BUt I suspect there are some mc oils that will acheived the same result. But listed above, the Exxon and the motocraft are proven top simple and cheap fixes to try , before you waste your time and money for a temporary fix

I hoped this would do it for me but I didn't have any luck.   I replaced my front tensioner and no more noise.

What oil did you run?   If then new tentioner doesnt last, atleast you have a manual option now
Mobil 1 10w40 (non-synth car oil)

Just fitted a pair of APE manual tensioners to my '02 73000 mile VTEC, transformed the bike! Far quieter and has actually made it run better, can only assume that there was so much slack in the cam chains that it was throwing the timing out.

As a note for those that always blame the front tensioner, it was the rear on mine that was knackered....

[image: View Post]didit, on 07 August 2010 - 09:52 AM, said:

I too have now joined the ranks of those with the APE manual CCT installed and I gotta tell ya, it's like heavan again!
Took a trip to visit cassandtim in Wenatchee, where we spent a few hours in the afternoon swaping out the OEM, with great success.
My mechanical leader had to fasion the tensioner tool from thin air  ---  well, okay he used an old hacksaw blade.

[image: Posted Image]
cct tool maker.JPG

[image: Posted Image]
cct tool.JPG

Never even removed the coolant hose.  Just improvised with another tool too move it slightly out of the way.

[image: Posted Image]
cct with hose puller.JPG

Once installed, we started her up and adjusted the amount of tension by vibration feel.  You can finger tighten the bolt quite easily and obviously,
then when running I eased it out 3 1/8th turns, vibration increased so I went back in 1.5 1/8th turns and sinched it down.
The following day, a 5 hour ride home and all rides since have been in perfect silence.
We even cleaned out & re-lubricated my K&N, and I'll tell you she's running and sounding better than I can remember!

Now I too have a spair CCT for the rear (should I ever need it) and this offer.
If anyone should be doing this job and need the OEM tool to retract the spring, simply PM me with your name & address & I'll mail you this beauty,
but like the flaf, it must be kept available for others and returned after use.


I took didit up on his offer, and with the help of his tool, this post and Tightwad's how-to I swapped out the bad CCT for one from APE this past weekend. Aside from dropping the lower mounting bolt down into the motor's "V" (thank goodness for magnets), the swap went pretty quickly, and I didn't remove any coolant lines either. My VFR sounds SO much better now.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 20 June 2010 - 08:55 PM, said:

sounds like the large quote given considered replacing cam chains, which is not needed.
you can replace the cct it may not make noise again for a while or start right back up a couple weeks later

The answer though is in the oil,  ive had issue with some of the (ma) friction rated mc oils and  diesils with cct noise.  Since switching to car oils, no more issue.  over 40,000 mile since switching

BUt if you prefer an Mc oil , might try a light weight motul product or maxima, they normally have a little moly in them which may do as well as some of the car oils.

But invest $10 in a car oil and see how it does, before sheeling out $100 for a new tensioner and waste your time replacing a CCT.   Exxon superflow 10w40 is my recommend, avaliable at pepboys

I've been running Mobil1 Highmilege oil recently, no noise with it,


After switching to a car oil, how long did it take for them (CCT's) to quiet down?
Thanks!

[image: View Post]k13sman, on 26 September 2011 - 02:55 PM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 20 June 2010 - 08:55 PM, said:

sounds like the large quote given considered replacing cam chains, which is not needed.
you can replace the cct it may not make noise again for a while or start right back up a couple weeks later

The answer though is in the oil,  ive had issue with some of the (ma) friction rated mc oils and  diesils with cct noise.  Since switching to car oils, no more issue.  over 40,000 mile since switching

BUt if you prefer an Mc oil , might try a light weight motul product or maxima, they normally have a little moly in them which may do as well as some of the car oils.

But invest $10 in a car oil and see how it does, before sheeling out $100 for a new tensioner and waste your time replacing a CCT.   Exxon superflow 10w40 is my recommend, avaliable at pepboys

I've been running Mobil1 Highmilege oil recently, no noise with it,


After switching to a car oil, how long did it take for them (CCT's) to quiet down?
Thanks!

It will take about 50 miles or so, Kinda funny I mention a few oills that are proven to quiten, and then people get something different not on the proven list.

Pepboys carries the Exxon super flow 10w40, valvoline pretty much anywhere, although my favotie car oil was Exxon super flow. I should mention the exxon super flow is a Hydrocracked oil, much better than many low end mc oils.

My bike has 90,000 miles, all this issue was back between 19 to 30,000 miles. Trying various things with no resolve, so I bought a new front tentioner, within a 1000 miles it was klacking even worse. So I just needed a real cheap oil change, Valvoline 10w40 and Holy chit, gone.  But I ran car oil for about 30,000 miles,  evidently the car oil gave the tentioner what it need lubricating the body, Cause Ive been back on diesil oil for over 30,000 mile no noise problem same tensioner.  So if one of these car oils work, you may only have to run them 10,000 mile or .

Thanks spud, I'll give it a try.