Front End Shake

When I'm decellerating I often take my hands off the bars and sit straight up to stretch a bit. When the bike slows to about 35 mph, the front end starts shaking rapidly side to side. It stops if I accelerate. I can't feel it if I keep my hands on the bars. It's a bit disconcerting when it happens. Would this be a sign of bad bearings, or might there be some other cause? The front tire appears to be wearing evenly (no cupping). Any advice would be appreciated.

- How many miles on your front tire?

- How's the balance of your front tire? (if evenly worn with high mileage, the balance could be off, or you could have lost a weight)

- How old are your steering bearings, and when were they last adjusted?

- If you put the bike on the centerstand and weight the rear of the bike(to lift the front), grab the forks at the axle and move forward/back, do they feel loose or make a clicking/clunking noise?

- Again with the rear end weighted, front end up, do the bars move side-to-side smoothly, or do you feel any "notches"?

Loose head bearings and tire cupping are two things that could cause decelleration headshake. Check for both.....
In my case it was a a Dunlop front tire that was cupped that caused a mild case of it on my bike. It all dissapeared when I bought new Michelin Pilot Road 2' CTs. Already put on many miles on the Michelin, the front tire has zero cupping so far and the front end decelleration shakes still has not come back :fing02:

Beck
95 VFR

Thanks all for the quick responses! I love this site! Seb, my answers to your questions are in red below. Thanks!

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 21 July 2010 - 02:27 PM, said:

- How many miles on your front tire?
About 2,000.

- How's the balance of your front tire? (if evenly worn with high mileage, the balance could be off, or you could have lost a weight)
I think it's OK. I've never felt an out of balance condition.

- How old are your steering bearings, and when were they last adjusted?
Probably original, so 40,000 miles.

- If you put the bike on the centerstand and weight the rear of the bike(to lift the front), grab the forks at the axle and move forward/back, do they feel loose or make a clicking/clunking noise?
I'll try that.

- Again with the rear end weighted, front end up, do the bars move side-to-side smoothly, or do you feel any "notches"?
I'll also try that.

Perhaps its not relevant, but I had the exact same thing happen on my Katana. Slowing to stop, hands off the bars, sitting upright, it would shake violently. This problem was rectified when I replaced the tires. I guess it was the combination of the worn tires / poor balancing that caused this,

-Adam

From what I've been told "front end shake" can be caused by front tire cupping, out of balance front tire, or bad steering bearings...or a combination of these things.
Though the problem may "go away" when a cupped front tire is replaced it might not mean the problem is solved.
If you've got bad steering bearings it can cause the new front tire to wear unevenly eventually bringing back the front end shake.

I've got the 35mph shake on my bike...60k on the steering bearings and have ridden it on a lot of rough roads including rough dirt roads at times.
My front tire is seriously cupped which I'm sure contributes to the shake. But, I'm pretty sure the steering bearings are shot, too.
Anyhow, point is, don't just replace the cupped tire. Also check the steering bearings.

[image: View Post]Knife, on 21 July 2010 - 05:39 PM, said:

Thanks all for the quick responses! I love this site! Seb, my answers to your questions are in red below. Thanks!

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 21 July 2010 - 02:27 PM, said:

- How many miles on your front tire?
About 2,000.

- How's the balance of your front tire? (if evenly worn with high mileage, the balance could be off, or you could have lost a weight)
I think it's OK. I've never felt an out of balance condition.

- How old are your steering bearings, and when were they last adjusted?
Probably original, so 40,000 miles.

- If you put the bike on the centerstand and weight the rear of the bike(to lift the front), grab the forks at the axle and move forward/back, do they feel loose or make a clicking/clunking noise?
I'll try that.

- Again with the rear end weighted, front end up, do the bars move side-to-side smoothly, or do you feel any "notches"?
I'll also try that.

I think with only 2000mi on your front tire and 40k on your bearings, it's very safe to say that you need to change your head bearings! Even if it is the tire, 40k on the SHB is a lot, and you should change them anyway. Nail in the coffin? It's $35 vs $90-150 for a tire...

I'm pretty sure you'll confirm bad bearings when you do the tests above. Report back!   :cheerleader:

I had same shake on deceleration, made more pronounced with rear box attached, ever since bought my VFR w/ 17,000 miles on the clock.  A replacement set of steering bearings fitted by a mechanic at 28,000 miles made no difference.  Then at 36,000 miles a Honda workshop checked the bike and said the bearings were shot and had to be replaced (!) - this Honda workshop has proved to be fastidious and very good in my experience.  After they carefully fitted new Honda OEM bearings the steering felt entirely different - very light and darty - and coincidently the deceleration shake is gone.

Conclusion: steering bearings can be a cause of steering shake, but beware not all bearing kits nor all mechanics are the same.  Sometimes it pays to use the best.

Tony

Anyone have a suggestion for the best bearings and where to get them? (Yes, I'll do a search, too.)

[image: View Post]Knife, on 22 July 2010 - 09:10 AM, said:

Anyone have a suggestion for the best bearings and where to get them? (Yes, I'll do a search, too.)

At the risk of being too simple;  have you tried taking some preload out of the forks?

I had the same problem with my 03 with 16,000 km (not much) and simply tightening the steering head bearings fixed it.

John

Early on, I replaced the VFR ball bearings with taper roller bearings.  So far, no matter what tire I used, no matter what condition it was in, there has never been any signs of a front end shake.

I read a while back that many bikes that weigh in excess of 500 pounds often suffer from front end deceleration shake if they have ball bearings in the front end.

Ball bearings are claimed to give better feel and easier turn in but I haven't seen any difference.  Of course, I am not the fine tuned rider that is capable of detecting small changes like this but after putting in the taper rollers and getting them to the proper torque which is considerably less than what ball bearings call for, I have never looked back.

AllBalls Tapered Steering Head Bearings... MSS has them for about $30.  If you need an excuse to finally buy that new pair of gloves or new helmet - spend $75 or more and you get free shipping.   :laugh:

You're experiencing front end trail wobble and it's normal... some bikes may
wobble decelerating through the 45 mph range... keeping your hands on the bars
cures the front end wobble... some bikes wobble more than others and it's no
big deal with your hands on the bars in the critical speed range... your bike
should be immune at speeds above 45 mph...

The wobble is essentially a steering oscillation of the front forks that
doesn't involve the rear frame is any significant way... Typical 4 Hz for heavy
bikes and 9 Hz for lighter bikes... The frequency increases as the trail
increases and as front weight decreases... it depends essentially on the side
grip of the front tire... Manufactures work hand in hand with tire designers to
produce a bike and tire combination that quills the nature frequency of the
front to wobble... Haven't you noticed on some new model bikes they call for a
specific tire??? As that tire wears down and needs replacing the owner can go
with the known stock tire or venture into the unknown choosing a different
manufactures tire... he may get lucky and find a tire with the ability to quill
the natural frequency of the front wobble... or get unlucky a find a tire that
aggravates the front wobble... some tires dampened the wobble better than
others...

In conclusion... got good bearings but still got the wobbles... focus on
tires...

Note... if your steering head bearings are bad you'll notice a pronounce
centering effect as the balls get hung up on the flat spots on the race... if you're
steering head bearings are loose you'll notice a pronounce clunk during braking...

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on 16 August 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

You're experiencing front end trail wobble and it's normal... some bikes may
wobble decelerating through the 45 mph range... keeping your hands on the bars
cures the front end wobble... some bikes wobble more than others and it's no
big deal with your hands on the bars in the critical speed range... your bike
should be immune at speeds above 45 mph...

The wobble is essentially a steering oscillation of the front forks that
doesn't involve the rear frame is any significant way... Typical 4 Hz for heavy
bikes and 9 Hz for lighter bikes... The frequency increases as the trail
increases and as front weight decreases... it depends essentially on the side
grip of the front tire... Manufactures work hand in hand with tire designers to
produce a bike and tire combination that quills the nature frequency of the
front to wobble... Haven't you noticed on some new model bikes they call for a
specific tire??? As that tire wears down and needs replacing the owner can go
with the known stock tire or venture into the unknown choosing a different
manufactures tire... he may get lucky and find a tire with the ability to quill
the natural frequency of the front wobble... or get unlucky a find a tire that
aggravates the front wobble... some tires dampened the wobble better than
others...

In conclusion... got good bearings but still got the wobbles... focus on
tires...

Note... if your steering head bearings are bad you'll notice a pronounce
centering effect as the balls get hung up on the flat spots on the race... if you're
steering head bearings are loose you'll notice a pronounce clunk during braking...

:laugh:

My '99 always had the same wobble you describe Knife through all the Bridgestone tires I had except when absolutely new, meaning the first couple hundred miles. Going to tapered bearings made little difference, neither did swapping in my RC front end. Switching to Michelin PP and PP2 tires cured it, even all the way down to the wear bars. I just did this today on the way home, tires have about 4K on them, and absolutely not even a wiggle while decelerating no hands. Might as well put new bearings but I think it's the bike/tire combo that's the real culprit.

Thanks to all for the great advice and information. I'll report back after I test the front end as suggested, and if I swap out the bearings.

At risk of sounding the simplist of all... I once got my front axle out of line after I had taken the wheels off for a routine tire change. I guess I didn't take note of the position of the scribed line around the left side of the axle or it moved while I tightened the compression nut upon installation. Anyway after I noticed the shaking on deceleration, I found that lining up the scribed line exactly to the edge of the fork eliminated the shaking. Now I can employ the linked braking while riding with no hands, just like my Mom told me not to do!

[image: View Post]Bartlecon, on 18 August 2010 - 07:49 AM, said:

At risk of sounding the sounding the simplist of all... I once got my front axle out of line after I had taken the wheels off for a routine tire change. I guess I didn't take note of the position of the scribed line around the left side of the axle or it moved while I tightened the compression nut upon installation. Anyway after I noticed the shaking on deceleration, I found that lining up the scribed line exactly to the edge of the fork eliminated the shaking. Now I can employ the linked braking while riding with no hands, just like my Mom told me not to do!
Never crossed my mind. I'll take a look when I get home tonight. Thanks for the tip!

I did the same thing a few days ago.   The front end shook so hard I thought I was gonna go down.    Of course I have thousands of miles on my front tire.    I would start simple and re-balance the front tire before tearing into things.

While I agree with the bearing concensus, I've had a remarkably abnormal amount of headshake experience on many different bikes which came to me with a Dunlop.  Needless to say, Dunlops are never retained long on my new (used) bikes.  I've also ridden lots of bikes with bad or maladjusted steering bearings (I tend to have older bikes, most of these were heavyweights) and can verify the validity of Seb's tests.  My experience has been, even after bearing replacement, if there was a Dunlop up front with more than a very few hundred miles, the problem never completely went away until the Dunlop did.

[image: View Post]Ottoman, on 19 August 2010 - 11:47 PM, said:

While I agree with the bearing concensus, I've had a remarkably abnormal amount of headshake experience on many different bikes which came to me with a Dunlop.  Needless to say, Dunlops are never retained long on my new (used) bikes.  I've also ridden lots of bikes with bad or maladjusted steering bearings (I tend to have older bikes, most of these were heavyweights) and can verify the validity of Seb's tests.  My experience has been, even after bearing replacement, if there was a Dunlop up front with more than a very few hundred miles, the problem never completely went away until the Dunlop did.


Same here.  My 500 mile '08 with D204's  is doing this . . . so did every other VFR I had with Dunlops on them.  Dunlop must give these to Honda - otherwise I can't understand why Honda keeps using them.   I guess I'll just have to ride more 'till I need a new set . . . :fing02:

I got exactly same problem 01 VFR.I am an aggresive rider.The head also shake when cornering,slow and fast.I have change hub bearings,rebuild front shock and it still shake.I am considering install steering damper,is this a solution?

I also have the same problem. New bike in Aril, new tyres and does the same thing. The head bearings were checked and tighted up a bit but no change. The tyre has now done 12,000kms and after about 8,000 it did disappear for a short while but came back. Am picking it is the tyre and hoping it will go away when I get a new front.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 21 July 2010 - 02:27 PM, said:

- How's the balance of your front tire? (if evenly worn with high mileage, the balance could be off, or you could have lost a weight)

:+1:    I had the same problem with my previous bike.  Make sure the front is balanced and inflated properly.  Corrected both of these and the headshake cleared up.

i've change to brand new tire,always measure tire preasure.check front axle straightness.this shake happend more when accelerate from stop to higher speed.this shake cause rear end to wobbly.
When you lift the bike on front stand,it feel very light to lift the front end.Is this about weight distribution on vfr design is on rear and cause less weight on front?
Somebody using steering damper please tell us what is the difference

I have exactly the same worrys now, at around 60km/h speed the bars start to wobble, and you do feel it slightly whit hands on the bar, let the hands of, and you fear to fall becors it get so big movement side to side. I had not this on my previus set of tires, Roadsmarts, but he set before that, D208, was heavyly cuped in just 3k kms, and had also a bad headshake in sam speed.
For my trop last summer I got a new set of Conti RoadAttack2, and they have a slight cuping now, at ~4k kms, and has the wobble mention first. Also as I had top box during the trip and riding on motorwya at abowe 140km/h speed the bike started to ride loke a snake, sloghtlu wobbling all bike. Whitout topbox no issue. But I´m do leaning towards changeing the head bearings. I dont know if they ever changed, and I have 80k kms on the clock. Also after installing the PC, I have started to have small wheelies often accerelating, so it can be a couse the head bearings have had a hard time....

Michelin Pilot Road 2.

'Nuff said.

As mentioned many times above hands off bars minor head shake 99.9% of the time is tyre related, certain tyres just tend to do this even when balanced & from new tyre doesn't need to be worn. I used to always run Bridgestone 002 front (now replaced with 003) with a pilot power rear mainly because I push the front end & as bike riding is 100% confediance that was the front tyre I trusted (I'm not a believer you can't mix & match tyres). Didn't matter if 002 was brand new or worn every one I fitted would give shake if I let go of bars. They did the same on my track bike with a 002 rear so matched tyres, it was simply a caractoristic of that tyre.

I run Metz M5 front rear these days on my gen 6 & zero shake & best tyre so far I have used on the VFR dry/wet with better mileage than I used to get from pilot powers.

As miles piled up on my '01 (I'm guessing it happened around 40k to 50k), when I removed my hands at high speed, guessing above 60 mph, I'd get a fair amount of head shake. My Honda dealer mechanic first said it was common for the VFR. As time went on it became more pronounced. Mechanic agreed, put the front end in the air while on center stand, and steered the front end from side to side. We could feel the bearings hit a "detent" at a certain spot. Said it was worn head (ball) bearings. He recommended replacement with tapered roller bearings, which he installed. (Tires were never mentioned - I've never had an oddly worn tire.) Since then I've never had any further issues of this sort. I now have 100,000 miles on the machine.  

[image: View Post]kaldek, on 09 January 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

Michelin Pilot Road 2.

'Nuff said.

He he.  Glad to know someone else has their finger on the pulse of tires!

Check Steering Bearings, Wheel Bearings, Fork oil levels...

I had a wobble when you leave the hands...moved to Coned Bearings - issues resolved ...no wobble but it still banks to the right a little. but i think i can live with that

[image: View Post]keny, on 09 January 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

I have exactly the same worrys now, at around 60km/h speed the bars start to wobble, and you do feel it slightly whit hands on the bar, let the hands of, and you fear to fall becors it get so big movement side to side. I had not this on my previus set of tires, Roadsmarts, but he set before that, D208, was heavyly cuped in just 3k kms, and had also a bad headshake in sam speed.
For my trop last summer I got a new set of Conti RoadAttack2, and they have a slight cuping now, at ~4k kms, and has the wobble mention first. Also as I had top box during the trip and riding on motorwya at abowe 140km/h speed the bike started to ride loke a snake, sloghtlu wobbling all bike. Whitout topbox no issue. But I´m do leaning towards changeing the head bearings. I dont know if they ever changed, and I have 80k kms on the clock. Also after installing the PC, I have started to have small wheelies often accerelating, so it can be a couse the head bearings have had a hard time....

Recently installed Givi hard cases, including top box on my bike. Set off down the road, with only the (empty) top box installed and let go of the bars to snug up the jacket. The front end started a massive head shake. The front tire was ready for replacement, so I installed a new Roadsmart II. Find I still have headshake -- not as bad as with the old tire, but still there. Never had much of a head shake problem at all, in the past. Wondering if the aerodynamics of the top box are somehow contributing?