How to flip the eccentric in a 4th gen

I remove the wheel, and then... (please fill in the blanks)

Is it as simple as rotating the eccentric 180deg, then coming up with a new torque arm for the brake caliper mount?

Pics & tutelage appreciated... :lurk:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 19 August 2010 - 06:22 PM, said:

I remove the wheel, and then... (please fill in the blanks)

Is it as simple as rotating the eccentric 180deg, then coming up with a new torque arm for the brake caliper mount?

Pics & tutelage appreciated... :lurk:


Here is the issues when I started to do the flip.

#1 you have to counter sink one of the bracket bolt holes and get a belved screw to takes its place due to the fact the head of the bolt will hit before you can rotate it fully.
#2 I didnt like that the chain had to rise up to go over the upper plastic guard which could lead to faster wear of the guard and also the alignment of the chain to front sprocket is off.
#3 cant use a hugger anymore :(
#4 my chain was hitting my center stand .


I went with a tail riser and I had some made out of Aluminum before I installed mine. I just havent got around to putting a finish on them or sell them as is. If interested in giving them a go I was asking $45.00 shipped.

Brian

The Phantom

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1995 VFR750
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Posted 08 March 2006 - 07:19 AM
BusyLittleShop, on Mar 8 2006, 06:22 PM, said:
Phantom... I believe the 750s are like the 800s and that the eccentric is designed to rest at the 6 o' clock position... check your shop manual... the only thing I have to go by is Ron Ayers...


No need to check my manual, I flipped my eccentric a couple of years ago :thumbsup: They are definitely at 12 o'clock on the 750s. There are two bolt heads that hold the rear caliper bracket (to which the caliper itself is mounted) onto the flange that goes between the swingarm and the rear brake rotor. When you attempt to rotate the eccentric any lower than about 4 o'clock (rotating clockwise), one of the boltheads hits the swingarm.

Countersinking the hole and fitting a set screw allows full 360 degree rotation. And here is a pic of the countersunk bolt courtesy of JZH on hondavfrclub.org - I countersunk both of mine for uniformity but have no pics of it. You can just see it peeking over the top of the swingarm - if it was the original bolt the axle could not be in the 6 o'clock position.

Because the 800 runs the rear brake caliper underneath the swingarm, the set-up is reversed - but I don't have any pics to show this. I assume it's the same layout, with the bracket flange that has the caliper bracket bolted to it. Perhaps there is the potential there to actually _lower_ an 800 using a similar method, for those with ducks disease? : )

Magellan, I did the mod for the same reason, to gain clearance for the Wolf underseat pipes. I've also got some shims for the shock, and have cut the subframe a bit to get the pipes as high as possible - so now I think I'll be able to run the eccentric in the 'normal' position with one or two shims when solo, and will just flip the eccentric (all of 30 seconds work) when my better half is on the back seat.

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 11:56 AM
BusyLittleShop, on Mar 8 2006, 05:37 PM, said:
Good pics... thanks for pointing that out... I see now where Honda had no chance in
positioning the axle 6 o' clock due to bolt interference... weird... so how did flipping
the eccentric affect handling???

I like the countersunk idea... I think that would have been my solution as well...
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I did it some years ago on my 4:th gen, but the frontmost side of the shock made contact with the swingarm when fully extended - didn't like that. Also, the increased height made the center stand almost unusable and when using the side stand the bike leaned over too much for my liking. I ended up shimming the rear shock 1/4 in and raising the forks a tad more than 1/2 in instead.

Didn't ride it enough with just the eccenter flip to make a real good evaluation but I never experienced any headshaking. The stock 4:th gen is incredibly stable.

There is a good pictorial from some years back on the UK site. JZH, that you've propably met on VFRd, was involved in it.


And then to the topic of quick steering. At least I make a sharp distiction between quick- and over-steering. I don't hear anybody talking about that here.
Wonder if it works...

http://www.vfrdiscus...ms/page__st__30


And here I thought you would have been the guy to invent the flop :)

Also this site has alot of good info too, sign up if your not already:

http://www.bikersora...=eccentric+flip

Normal position:
http://www.bikersora...69&d=1047842956

Flipped position:

http://www.bikersora...70&d=1047843015

Counter sunk screw:

http://www.bikersora...28&d=1048024938

[image: View Post]SLO97VFR, on 19 August 2010 - 07:18 PM, said:

Also this site has alot of good info too, sign up if your not already:

http://www.bikersora...=eccentric+flip

Normal position:
http://www.bikersora...69&d=1047842956

Flipped position:

http://www.bikersora...70&d=1047843015

Counter sunk screw:

http://www.bikersora...28&d=1048024938

Thanks for dredging up that six-year old thread!

I don't think I ever had an issue with the chain dragging. Are you running stock sprockets?

Btw, I solved the "stands" problems by having a cast iron extension welded onto the bottom of the side stand, and then I spaced the centre stand bracket (this only works on an FL-FP '90-'93) down about 35mm, which also allowed me to use a TBR full system (which normally would have hit that bracket). There are more pics of all of that stuff on the UK VFR site. (I was once banned from there, but I was given a reprieve!)

Ciao,

Cheers guys. Glad I'm allowed to be lazy once in a while. :smile:

Been forgetting to update this for some time, finally remembering today...

I bought part # 92125A283 from McMaster Carr(.com). This is a stainless bolt, but I'm willing to take the risk - it's not a very high stress location. The lowest qty you can get is a 10pk, so if anyone else wants to do this, feel free to contact me, I have extras! :biggrin:



92125A283 - 18-8 stainless steel, M8 x 18mm x 1.25mm pitch

Somewhat related, when I try to adjust the chain slack and loosen the pinch bolt, it's really hard to move the adjuster. As if it's still tightened. I've inserted a screwdriver tip to wedge the holder out, still same deal, too tight to move easily.
I end up hitting the adjuster tool to make it move. Not good.

What would be the cause of this?
Thanks!

[image: View Post]VFRSuperfreak, on 22 October 2010 - 02:07 PM, said:

What would be the cause of this?

Usually road grit. It gets in the drain hole and settles in a wide groove in the swing arm, just below a corresponding wide groove in the hub carrier. Get enough in there and the carrier "grinds" to a halt...

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1287620871/gallery_362_402_21158.jpg
P6050001x.jpg

Ciao,

Any leads on where to get the proper countersink bolts to do the flip?
I guess one will also need to drill down some countersinks for their heads to sit in. Is that a drill press job or can it be done on the bike without disaasembling the rear suspension?
Did you guys use a certain/specific grade of bolt?? Please advise what grade minimum.
I've been wanting to also do this, but the whole countersinking thing kinda scares me as it is anchoring part of the rear brake system.........but I guess I can maybe finally do it this winter as a project.

Beck
95 VFR

Just for my empty trivia space in my head........... What is the benefit of flipping it..........

[image: View Post]Beck, on 22 October 2010 - 03:24 PM, said:

Any leads on where to get the proper countersink bolts to do the flip?
I guess one will also need to drill down some countersinks for their heads to sit in. Is that a drill press job or can it be done on the bike without disaasembling the rear suspension?
Did you guys use a certain/specific grade of bolt?? Please advise what grade minimum.
I've been wanting to also do this, but the whole countersinking thing kinda scares me as it is anchoring part of the rear brake system.........but I guess I can maybe finally do it this winter as a project.

Beck
95 VFR


Beck, look just a few posts up, the first one I posted today. There's a part number and everything! Or I can just send you one... :smile: The countersinking should really be done on a drill press, unless you have a countersink cage you can attach to your drill(which most folks don't). Countersinking the part at an angle by accident, as opposed to perpendicular, will result in the new bolt not seating properly. Also, by removing the part and c'sinking on a press, you remove the risk of getting aluminum chips into areas of the bike where they shouldn't be.

ps - if you buy the bolts I did, you will need a 90deg countersink larger than .5".

[image: View Post]Monk, on 22 October 2010 - 03:41 PM, said:

Just for my empty trivia space in my head........... What is the benefit of flipping it..........


Monk, this mod can be done on 3rd & 4th gens to raise the rear ride height, as the eccentrics come from the factory with the axle located in the 12 o'clock position(the mod moves the axle to 6 o'clock). 5th & 6th gens come with the axle already at 6 o'clock.

[image: View Post]Beck, on 22 October 2010 - 03:24 PM, said:

Any leads on where to get the proper countersink bolts to do the flip?
I guess one will also need to drill down some countersinks for their heads to sit in. Is that a drill press job or can it be done on the bike without disaasembling the rear suspension?
Did you guys use a certain/specific grade of bolt?? Please advise what grade minimum.
I've been wanting to also do this, but the whole countersinking thing kinda scares me as it is anchoring part of the rear brake system.........but I guess I can maybe finally do it this winter as a project.

Beck
95 VFR

You only need to countersink (or even replace) one of the bolts. I replaced both purely for aesthetic reasons. I don't know the names of any US-based titanium race bolt suppliers, but any of them would stock the one countersunk socket cap screw you need--it is not particularly special. (Yoyodyne, maybe?)

On the 3rd-gen, the caliper carrier is steel, so it's best an off-bike job.

Ciao,

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 22 October 2010 - 05:52 PM, said:

Monk, this mod can be done on 3rd & 4th gens to raise the rear ride height, as the eccentrics come from the factory with the axle located in the 12 o'clock position(the mod moves the axle to 6 o'clock). 5th & 6th gens come with the axle already at 6 o'clock.


Another curiousity induced question: what is the amount of rear ride height increase you get from this? Keeping in mind that the amount of hub eccentricity is the max amount, what would be the typical ride height change gained by "the flip".

In case you were wondering, the 1098 has the axle centerline towards 6 o'clock from the factory. The nice part about that bike is you don't need to do anything special to rotate it up.

[image: View Post]JamieDaugherty, on 23 October 2010 - 08:58 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 22 October 2010 - 05:52 PM, said:

Monk, this mod can be done on 3rd & 4th gens to raise the rear ride height, as the eccentrics come from the factory with the axle located in the 12 o'clock position(the mod moves the axle to 6 o'clock). 5th & 6th gens come with the axle already at 6 o'clock.


Another curiousity induced question: what is the amount of rear ride height increase you get from this? Keeping in mind that the amount of hub eccentricity is the max amount, what would be the typical ride height change gained by "the flip".

In case you were wondering, the 1098 has the axle centerline towards 6 o'clock from the factory. The nice part about that bike is you don't need to do anything special to rotate it up.


All I know is, the rear ride height lowers when the chain stretches and the eccentric is rotated to tighten it again. It sort of reverses efforts raising of the ride height ou miught have done if you shim the rear shock or lowered the triple clamps on the forks.

Beck
95 VFR

[image: View Post]JamieDaugherty, on 23 October 2010 - 08:58 PM, said:

Another curiousity induced question: what is the amount of rear ride height increase you get from this? Keeping in mind that the amount of hub eccentricity is the max amount, what would be the typical ride height change gained by "the flip".


My initial rough measures are just over 1".

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 24 October 2010 - 09:02 AM, said:

My initial rough measures are just over 1".


How close is that to 25mm? :491:

As mentioned, the actual ride height change would depend on the chain and where it puts the adjuster. For most people I would assume the actual ride height change would be around half, or 12mm. That's not a lot but it's something. I'll take anything that is free!

[image: View Post]JamieDaugherty, on 24 October 2010 - 11:52 AM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 24 October 2010 - 09:02 AM, said:

My initial rough measures are just over 1".


How close is that to 25mm? :491:

As mentioned, the actual ride height change would depend on the chain and where it puts the adjuster. For most people I would assume the actual ride height change would be around half, or 12mm. That's not a lot but it's something. I'll take anything that is free!


-1/+2 sprocket set will put my axle closer to 6:30 or 7 o'clock, which works out perfect for tire wear vs chain adjustment. Axle moves bike up as tire wears down. I haven't taken exact measurements but have put axle in eccentric and mounted on SSSA stand; actual difference in height measured at top of eccentric with axle at BDC vs TDC is ~1.125" or aprrox 28.6mm. :rolleyes: