FAULTY GROUND CONNECTOR

Well, I hope this sheds light on things and helps people with their electrical woes... hope it helps me too hahahaha.

:blink: :blink: :blink:

My bike's history:

2003 VTEC (Spain: so no wiring harness nor stator recall)

Installed VFRness around 55000 km.

1st stator fried at around 65000 km

Replaced with aftermarket stator.

Short time later R/R fried (dead battery put me onto it... stator readings were fine)

Replaced both

2nd stator fried at 75000 km

Replaced with OEM stator and replaced R/R (aftermarket) and battery (YTZ14s) just in case.

Few days later the stator-R/R connector fried. Cut out the connector from the equation and hardwired stator to R/R.

85000 km (just the other week) I was going over the electrical system and noticed the 3 yellow wires dowstream from stator-R/R connector (that is to say: between this connector and the R/R) getting very hot... disconnected it to take stator readings... fine... connected it back up and it started to smoke... shut off bike and curse Mother Honda and the horse she rode in on.

Discovered that one of the yellow wires was so hot you couldn't even touch it... the others were relatively cool (they will warm up, this is normal, but usually you can keep hold on them for several seconds at least... even longer is better). So my question to myself and fellow VFR buddies was... R/R or Stator?? An engineer friend of mine who deals with this stuff all day long had the brilliant idea of pulling the hot one and taking readings to see if at least this might get one back home... it probably would work if you disconnected one headlight and were real smooth on the throttle as the rectification of the AC volts would no longer level peak voltage into a smooth DC wave... and if you're radiator fan weren't coming on all the time (i.e. cool ambient temps)... and you didn't spend too long with the motor idling.... anyway, this is just a long-way-from-home desperate-act-of-survival tip...

So, in order to eliminate R/R or Stator as the culprit, we swapped the order of the wires around... let's call the female half of the connector (stator side) F and the male half (R/R side) M... so wire-wise we have the stock order of F1-M1, F2-M2, F3-M3. The M side wires are the ones getting hot and we had removed these from the white plastic housing and stuck them into the female housing in a different order... previously F1-M1 would get hot (well, really M1, but M1 connected into F1)... if we rearranged things, as in F1-M2, F2-M3, F3-M1... then if F1-M2 were the one heating up, the rpoblem would probably reside in the stator side of things... but actually F3-M1 was the one getting BBQ hot... so it was fairly certain the R/R was fugged...

While we were at it, we decided to check out the (famous over here in Spain) BYC... bit like KFC... Big Yellow Connector (read "Kentucky Fried Connector")... this is a reasonably large yellow connector through which a whole bunch of ground wires run, in the front subharness... it's not really large in size, but there are 12 wires running through it... each of a different thickness (guage)... three thicker ones and the rest are puny. This connector seems to join all sorts of ground wires (seemingly from sensors and the like) but with the surprising effectiveness of an ashtray on a VFR. Nill, null, zero, ziltch, none and sweet f-a effectiveness. It's a piece of crap and hardly creates any decent connections whatsoever. So we eliminated the connector, twirled the ends together and wrapped another section of cable around this (to bolt the other end of this to ground on the chassis) and soldered the lot with a torch solderer...

[image: 4a38e918eb04195d94ded805dbce7728.jpg]

[image: 289d281a49346850c7045afec3b5b38b.jpg]

[image: b904a9c1e7a3e4846f8705b70246286d.jpg]

[image: 577a055cae0f893434ce3d273401b17f.jpg]

[image: 199975eec5799d03edc409a1f46d950d.jpg]

[image: 7b4975cb59fd00887c3a8ba6d7bb202a.jpg]

[image: a605531abcf411b13349cdfda30d0a20.jpg]

I can say my VTEC transition and Fi system in general is running smoother so this probably means the ECU is receiving proper readings from sensors now because the surging issues had been getting intolerable lately.

I'm currently running a second hand OEM R/R a buddy lent to me for the meantime... Although I picked up, courtesy of Josh (Tightwad) at Wiremybike.com... the supposedly YOU-BEAUT mofset supercool R/R unit... so I'll be installing it this weekend to see how it goes... thing is it doesn't have the B&W feedback... so wondering if I should wire in the one from the VFRness (which I currently have completely disconnected) or not bother...

I'm getting a stable 14,3 V with the 2nd hand OEM R/R... battery reads 12,9...

Seems OK but it used to give out 14,6 V... before all this. Keen to try out the Mofsetter... 'cause I'm about to give up on the VTEC forever.... hope this helps people...

Link to 5th gen equivalent:

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/66045-urethra-i-found-it/&do=embed&comment=773553&embedComment=773553&embedDo=findComment#comment-773553

Top work mate - that ground connector is probably a major root cause of all the issues with VFRs. I think I'll tear into mine soon to do the same mod.

Auspañol

I'm getting a stable 14,3 V with the 2nd hand OEM R/R... battery reads 12,9...

Seems OK but it used to give out 14,6 V... before all this.

Be aware that some regulators are set to different voltages - a different R/R may regulate at 14.3 compared to 14.6. I wouldn't worry about that kind of difference.

Your half the way there !!!!!!!!!

kaldek

Top work mate - that ground connector is probably a major root cause of all the issues with VFRs. I think I'll tear into mine soon to do the same mod.

Auspañol

I'm getting a stable 14,3 V with the 2nd hand OEM R/R... battery reads 12,9...

Seems OK but it used to give out 14,6 V... before all this.

Be aware that some regulators are set to different voltages - a different R/R may regulate at 14.3 compared to 14.6. I wouldn't worry about that kind of difference.

I'm trying to convince everyone to check this conector out on their bike... it's got to be a major part of the electrical woes on at least the early VTECs...

10-4 on the voltage setting... I haven't had a single electrical hiccup on the bike, no flat batteries, no blown fuses or light bulbs or fried conectors since I did this mod... this summer will be the proof of the pudding with the hot temps and mountain runs...

So does this R/R do as you mention on the other thread?? Maybe I should check out the R/R you mention...

One thing that will kill a stator instantaneously is any short between the 3 yellow wires when the plug melts.

So... I had been starting to think this was just a Spanish based glitch... but... lo' and beeholdee:

Thank you sire, will look at it all!

Baileyrock

Thank you sire, will look at it all!

You are more than welcome Bailey... be sure to check out your good friend's Veefer800Canuck's "URETHRA" thread as linked above.

can someone please tell me where to find the big yellow connector?

ColoMotoChick

can someone please tell me where to find the big yellow connector?

On my 06 I think its an orange connector, but I checked it and looked good so I just shot it with some wd40. I dont want to do the CLOD weld unless I have to.

But its on the left side of the bike as pictured

In the front subharness, on the leftward running line which runs along the front fairing bracket's lower left arm... right about where you can see the thing in this picture... (wrapped in black electrical tape, so you'll be looking for a larger swelling along that line near the relay

[image: 9edc3957f6eef9f08e80eb125893261b.jpg]

I opened up my big yellow ground block. I was surprised. The thing was immaculate. No brown, no crud, just perfect looking wires. There were only 8 wires I believe in this block, I have the latest wiring harness (the one from the recall) so maybe that is why.

I do however get hot stator wires. Like REAL hot, I think this may be normal, not sure. My connectors aren't fried and when I have done tests everything came out fine, but I am tracking down surging issues. I may try to feel each wire individually to see if I can diagnose as was described here.

Is the Big Yellow Block the only "block" style ground connector we have on 6th gens? Or is there any others where its in a box like that wrapped in tape?

As far as I know that's the only one.. It's actually orange on the new 2006-on harness, at least in Europe..

Thing is they don't appear on the wiring diagram so maybe there are more somewhere.

Too-hot-to-touch wires is a real bad sign.

That bundled up bunch of ground wires all twisted and soldered together looks a bit scary....... But I guess it works!

I suspect though, that most VFR owners might be too picky about how their wiring looks and will not be brave enough to do a "McGuyver" style solution like that. I think a nice terminal block used as a ground buss for all those grounds should also work better than the original BYC....

my 06 abs (U.S.) is orange too. To tell ya the truth the 2002 manuals (wiring colors) are damn near worthless. lots of wire colors differnces since the 2002 manual.

So after looking for grounding cluster (for days) somewhere near the battery, now I know better. On my 2002 front fairing is going off tomorrow! 

But just to clarify. I am still waiting to hear from Honda (Australia) to hear if front harness recall has been carried out. If it hasnt, i wait with this mod? Correct?

And then on new or old harness I solder all together, and a thick gauge(?) wire I then lead to any nearby bolt, on the chassis?

Not just stupid, old as well. 

Trygve

Trygve So after looking for grounding cluster (for days) somewhere near the battery, now I know better. On my 2002 front fairing is going off tomorrow! 
 
But just to clarify. I am still waiting to hear from Honda (Australia) to hear if front harness recall has been carried out. If it hasnt, i wait with this mod? Correct?
 
And then on new or old harness I solder all together, and a thick gauge(?) wire I then lead to any nearby bolt, on the chassis?
 
Not just stupid, old as well. 
 
Trygve

Found it! Thanks. Its in good nick. Will wait and see what Honda says, re recall. Then attack it with a soldering iron. In the mean time I've got panels to fix and then paint.

How thick a wire did you use from solder job to chassis. And where on chassis?

Trygve Found it! Thanks. Its in good nick. Will wait and see what Honda says, re recall. Then attack it with a soldering iron. In the mean time I've got panels to fix and then paint.
 
How thick a wire did you use from solder job to chassis. And where on chassis?
 
 

HI

May be a bit of the thread but

Recently had an issue with A 5 gen 1999 800

FI light glowing dim then getting brighter.. no running issues and people say it mat be the ground block as lights may try and earth back through the FI light so I checked the earth block and all seemed fine (in fact it looked like new) so sprayed contact cleaner and re assembled. All well for a few weeks (oh also installed a vfrness) today the same issue so read in a previous thread to turn lights off and see what happens … well main lights off just small bulb on (we in uk call this parking light) and the issue stopped instantly ..so waited a few miles an decided to turn main lights on again … the issue came back o I am thinking that maybe I need to take the groung block out of the harness and solder the wires together and run a separate earth for the FI light wire as some others have done … Am I on the right track here … or is there something more sinister ...At no time did I have any running issues

Any advice would be appreciated

Speed

Yes, you are on the right track, I have to clean the pins(in the orange block near on the left side of the seat)) about once a year when this starts to happen. (2000 FiY)

I've tried bending the pins in or out in the hope of a better connection, but it still seems to be an annual event (normally when the warmer(for the UK) weather starts).

I guess eventually I will have to replace the block and solder the wires together.

The connections have never looked dirty or corroded 

Hi 

Thanks for the reply

So do you just keep one set of wires together and solder them ... same with the other set ... and that's it ? Would it be advisable to run another earth 

Regards Speed 

Yes to another ground wire.

You can't see electrons so you can't judge the effectiveness of a connector with your eyes. That's why someone invented multimeters.

Again the advice of this thread, is firstly, read the thread... and remove the connector, solder all the wires together PROPERLY, there's more than one way to do this... But cold solder or otherwise poor quality solder jobs are defeating the purpose... and run an extra wire to ground.

Period

Hi

Has anyone got a picture of this on a 5th gen as the 6th gen mat be different

It seems on the 6th gen all the wires in the block are connected … may be wrong here but I seem to remember that there were 2 sets of prongs in the 5th gen

A picture would really help

Speed

Link to 5th gen equivalent:

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/66045-urethra-i-found-it/&do=embed&comment=773553&embedComment=773553&embedDo=findComment#comment-773553

Hi 

Thanks ... so it seems that all the wires are connected .... an extra wire is soldered in and connected to a ground 

May also put in a ground for the FI from the ecu as someone else had so nothing can ground back through it 

Speed 

Hi 

So read an item about the Fi light and giving it it's own specific earth to lessen the ability for other circuits to earth through it 

So stated B1 to find which wire in the earth block is the Fi ... this confused me as the B1 is an earth from the ECU to various circuits so how can you pin point the Fi circuit from this ? The Fi light wire seems to be A7 into the ECU ... so am I missing something here ... how will I find out the wire from the ECU to cut from the earth block to give it it's own earth ? I then intend to solder the other wires from the earth block together and do away with the earth block 

Any advice greatly appreciated 

Thanks 

My advice is that this would appear to be a separate topic to the present thread and it may be beneficial to start a separate topic for this matter.

Hi 

Thanks I will do so

The 5th Gen version of the ground block is a luminescent Orange instead of yellow.  I had this problem the past week.  I put OxGuard on the connnector cap/contacts and it helped make the intermittent problem away.  So, I re-wrapped the connector block with electrical tape (3M Super 88) and buttoned her up.  A couple days later I loaded her up to head out for a Ride (Last Friday) and meet friends 5 hours away...lo and behold --- 20 miles out I had an intermittent fault and then the bike stalled at a stop light the next town ahead...BIKE WOULDN"T START!  pushed her across the street into a nearby neighborhood (on the edge of the next town) and parked it discreetly behind the neighborhood sign.  

Called my wife, picked me up I got the trailer and drove back.  Just for S&Gs I thumbed the starter button brought her home in a couple hours.  I opened her up checked the Stator, Checked the battery, checked the RR and everything looks good.  Take the connector off again...look for burnt ground wire connections...nothing.  Lo and behold she starts right up!!!! NO FI LIGHT!

I'm back on the road by 3:30--only 5-1/2 hours to go to a nice fire, dinner and friends to ride with the next day!  Rain starts 20 miles North...temps drop, and by the time in Northern PA the temp is 40F...and fog, oh, didn't I tell you it SNOWED earlier in the day...I missed it by leaving late!  My buddies direct me to my cabin (sweet PA state park cabin!) so we aren't camping in the coooooold rain...put my chair in front of a roaring fire, they put dinner in my lap, drink in hand and life is GOOOOOD...NO FI light the whole trip up to PA!

Next morning -- get up for breakfast at Forksville General Store...FI Light...intermittent then on the whole dang ride!!! crap.  I'm not going to strand my mates on the ride so I spend the whole day in camp working on the bike and doing some local hikes...I figure that if I can't get it fixed I'll ride back with a buddy on Sunday and we'll deal with the issues on the way home!  Button her up...we have enough butt connectors and wire to do a temporary grounding fix...but I'd rather wait til I can find a AutoZone or Home Depot to find the proper stuff...BUT I start the bike after eveyone gets back to show them the issue and the DAMN FI light goes away and stays away the whole Sunday ride home!!!

Needless to say, I'm soldering and grounding this coming weekend after i get home from my business trip...AND I'm buying a FZ-09 FAH0029 Mosfet RR just for peace of mind too...and maybe even a new battery!

Matt Roth

[image: thumbnail.jpeg]

Thanks for the post it’s helped a lot , I am half way round a tour of France, including Bol, and most of the 1300 miles with no headlight or indicators, cutting the engine out when switched on.

Thanks to this post I've found that it’s the yellow ground connector. I have another 1000 miles before I get home so I don’t want to risk my other lights or running so how do I open the box with basic tools without damaging it so I can rebuild it after cleaning?   

its not the block that is the issue its the cables going in to it. they are undersized for the load and they corrode inside the connector pins. Cut the block off, strip & clean the cables then solder the whole bunch together.  If you feel inclined, use a 3mm core wire & add it to the solder group & connect the other end direct to the battery negative terminal or a convenient bolt on the frame ! 

As you are on a trip, try a large chocolate block to replace the honda block, use 2 or 3 & add some jumper cables to the other sides to link them all. Should act as a temporary fix. 

Thanks Mohawk, I managed to open the block and cleaned the terminals then the insides as best I could. As I was riding in rain for an hour yesterday. It’s holding out at the moment so I will push on as I am

for now, I’m heading over the Pyrenees back to the uk now.

when I get back to the uk I make that modification.

Thanks for replying 

I also have a 2002 vtec sitting in my garage for months with problems. I too will take a look at this and try this mod in the summer time. Thanks for help.