High tech battery, Mechanical geek, Electrical dumbass.

My battery has been giving me hints that it was gonna give up soon. And finally after nursing the damn thing between rides with the trickle charger, it finally bit the dust. Even after an overnight shift on the charger, all the thing would do was just a ughhhfff to attempt to turn over the starter motor when I hit the button. Ok, I�ve frickn had it with the thing, barely 1 � seasons on an Autozone replacement battery, a sealed acid type. I had also noticed that the durn thing would occasionally weep battery acid drops and I would have to clean up the stuff with a WD40 wipe down. A bit of a PIA annoyance. I thought about it a bit and figured I didn�t want to grab another lead acid type and then fool with the trickle charge routine over the winter again. That kinda sealed the deal for me and I decided to jump safe at the new fangled high tech A123 Lithium cycle batteries by MOTY design.

Getting the new battery here, I was floored on how small the thing is. And then, how light the battery is too. 1.69 pounds! Holy crap! Stock battery, about 7 � pounds. So it�s an insta 5 and a half pound savings. Kinda tickles my weight savings funny bone. Whoo hoo! Jeez add in the 6.25 pound drop from the brake delink, and 7 pound drop using a Carbon Fibre exhaust, hmm�. 18.75 pounds. I like. (The rider has dropped 20 pounds too.. :biggrin: )

Here�s some pics of my install, ...no big deal for you EE geeks, but I�m an electrical dumbass.

Wow, what a little dude�..
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Taking care of the hook up with the main wires and heat shrink tubing.
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Heat shrinked and taped up ready to go.
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All installed and connected, ready for button up. I packed the battery in the box with some foam from an old knee pad I had laying around.
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The result? Bike insta started right up. Yay! :fing02:

Very nice!! How much??
C

I've been wanting one too. Being so small, it will fit any bike so I could keep it and install in my next bike if their life span claims are true.

[image: View Post]PolarBear, on 15 September 2010 - 10:49 PM, said:

Very nice!! How much??
C

Heh, heh, heh. Well if you have to ask......... :warranty:

They aren't cheap.......... yet.

Another benefit of being so small with a non-liquid chemistry, you could mount it pretty much anywhere. New, longer cables might be required of course.

So how much do they cost and what is the life span?

It was $160... .yeah, yeeaoow that hurt. But I'm thinking ok, another 60 bucks for another PIA battery that probly dies in 2 years or 90 - 110 bucks for some high qualtiy lead acid based dude that I still have to stick a charger on over the winters, and maybe a 3 to 4 years, or just screw it grab the high tech thing with a "supposed" 4x discharge/recharge cycle life and mbe 5 years. I think its kind of a wash. Yeah it stings now, but I wont be buying another battery for quite a while. .. Well see how it goes.

I have been head stratchn on these as to what kind of envionment you can mount them in. My Valkyrie is a frickn gas hog, (29 mpg) and the battery is currently under the seat and there lots of wasted space. Also, on the underside of the bike by the swingarm mount there is a big space that something could mount. I would love to take one of the 12 cell jobs, move it to the under the bike by swingarm mount and then figure out how to use the space under the seat around the old battery spot for an auxiliary gas tank of a few gallons. Right now, its 135 miles to the reserve switch over. Longer distance riding is goofy, you always have to watch your gas. Bleah.

That's not a bad price if you can get 5 years out of it..... I've been running these "Optima" batteries in my Jeep It's a '94 and I changed out the stock one in the 1st or 2nd year and I'm on my 2nd Optima. I wish they made e'm for MC's. About $135 - 50 ... but 7-8 years a batt..... keep us up to date and thx for the info........

Hey, the price is not too bad, assuming it lasts as long as they claim. But it's really nice to see someone making a good product which, in the long run, will better for the environment. Garbage and disposable batteries are not the best way to go IMHO. It's also nice to be able to save some weight in the process. Now I know I can put on 5 pounds and buy an expensive battery and not notice on the handling of the bike... :blink: j/k
As for your Valkyrie and its gas mileage, it would drive me nuts... Good luck on that one.

c

Oh I forget to add that the BIG plus for me on this thing is that there is no trickle charge maintence for it. It is supposed to hold 95% of its charge while sitting for 2 years. Just disconnect it and bring it in the house. Cool! And the battery life thing - 1000 cycles vs 250 cycles for the lead acid type. No battery acid to eff up parts. Dunno but seems like a win to me. :fing02:

[image: View Post]mello dude, on 16 September 2010 - 12:03 AM, said:

Oh I forget to add that the BIG plus for me on this thing is that there is no trickle charge maintence for it. It is supposed to hold 95% of its charge while sitting for 2 years. Just disconnect it and bring it in the house. Cool! And the battery life thing - 1000 cycles vs 250 cycles for the lead acid type. No battery acid to eff up parts. Dunno but seems like a win to me. :fing02:

I have a DIY version of this battery, it sat on a shelf for about 1.5 years, intermittently used as a 12v test supply for lights, horns, etc - after 1.5 years, I put my battery tender on it and it reached full charge status in about 45min. (not sure of exact time, I walked away and when I looked 45 min later it was charged!) If you need to make the cables longer, go to a car audio store and buy a length of 8ga monster cable, comes in translucent black and red. The mini Anderson connectors can be had on ebay for a few bucks.

Looking forward to seeing some long term feedback mello, I know these things work best when the bike it's living on has a good charging system - but we know how that can go on a VFR!

Sweet, this could be really useful in builds where space is a premium and there's no room for the large acid battery
Thanks for the write up

I wonder if it will get as hot as a laptop battery? There have been some laptop battery recalls where they caught fire, they get so hot. Don't put the R/R near it. :)

I'm not being negative - I think it's an awesome idea and I'm tempted to try one. Just trying to think of possible drawbacks.

I wonder what sort of battery management they use?

[image: View Post]elizilla, on 16 September 2010 - 11:56 AM, said:

I wonder if it will get as hot as a laptop battery? There have been some laptop battery recalls where they caught fire, they get so hot. Don't put the R/R near it. :)

I'm not being negative - I think it's an awesome idea and I'm tempted to try one. Just trying to think of possible drawbacks.

I wonder what sort of battery management they use?

BLS has one in his RC45, ask him if his gets hot. I think you're thinking of the other lithium batteries - The LiFePo cells don't explode.

Very interesting. I stopped using cheap batteries after one dead shorted just as I was pulling onto a busy street. So $160 doesn't seem too bad if I never have to replace it. I'm the one who will die first, who gives a crap about my heirs?

The specs say to remove for winter - just the manufacturer covering their ass or is there a good reason? Wouldn't be too hard to do though, with the light weight and quick disconnect.

Max temp 140 - voltage converter probably generates some heat, have you checked to see how hot it gets? Might want to reconsider the foam padding if it does.

http://motydesign.com/8cell_prod.php

Hmmm... the other brand looks like a better package:

http://www.shoraipow...14a1-bs12.aspx#

Looks like their FAQs aren't ready, I'd like to see their storage recommendations.

I have a concern on how the battery will react to constantly being charged. Their original design intent was for a full charge, and then a near full drain.

What s/he said... I'm not against technology advances, but I think I'm going to wait a bit before jumping on this particular bandwagon. At least they're using high-quality Anderson connectors--that's a good sign!

Ciao,

[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 23 November 2010 - 11:39 AM, said:

I have a concern on how the battery will react to constantly being charged. Their original design intent was for a full charge, and then a near full drain.
That's a good point. I noticed that the lithium battery pack on my laptop seems to lose performace as I constantly have it on charge everytime I docked on to my office desk connection. Is partial discharge and constant topping off OK with Litium batteries in general, or do they prefer full charge and discharge cycles instead. My experience with the battery packs on my RC models is that the latter seems to be what is preferrable as some manufacturers even suggest that batteries be fully discharged before charging back up for full performance. Whether that also relates to the battery's longevity, I guess, is the question.

Beck
95 VFR

well, I just took the plunge on one of these things. Went out to the VFR to go for a short ride and the battery didn't have enough cajones to get the bike started, even though it's been on a trickle charger constantly when in the garage. I'll report back if I have any issues (I hope not for the $160 price tag!) :ohmy:

As an alternative, do a search for the UltraBatt UB400LITE.

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Spec UB400LITE:
12V (13,2V) / 4,6Ah Lithium Power (comparable to 14Ah lead/acid battery)
Short pulse discharge 400A
Maximum continuous discharge 140A
Pulse discharge 10sec 240A (240 CCA cranking amps)
Size 114x62x81mm (LxWxH)
Weight 728gram

[image: View Post]toddulu, on 05 February 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

well, I just took the plunge on one of these things. Went out to the VFR to go for a short ride and the battery didn't have enough cajones to get the bike started, even though it's been on a trickle charger constantly when in the garage. I'll report back if I have any issues (I hope not for the $160 price tag!) :ohmy:

So far, even though I dont have a lot of time on it, I'm liking mine. the quick disconnect feature is great. On/Off the bike in 15 seconds. Very handy! :fing02:

- Lots of winter going on right now, so for the moment its sitting on my desk in the house.

At the show last month, I talked to the guy at the Shorai booth. They are super light and fairly close in price to Yuasa, for about a fraction on the weight. They've also been advertising fairly heavy in the magazines and even on Cycle World's website. If I were in need of a battery, I would go with the Shorai. I believe their website is shoraipower.com.

[image: View Post]bryan217, on 05 February 2011 - 09:53 PM, said:

At the show last month, I talked to the guy at the Shorai booth. They are super light and fairly close in price to Yuasa, for about a fraction on the weight. They've also been advertising fairly heavy in the magazines and even on Cycle World's website. If I were in need of a battery, I would go with the Shorai. I believe their website is shoraipower.com.

I'll probably try one of those too when my Valkyrie battery finally gives way just for comparison. One thing is for damn sure - no more lead acid batterys!

My battery is pooched right now - I'm going to order one of these MOTY 8 cell units. A Yuasa standard battery here is about $120 anyway - for the extra $40 I see advantages that are worth it.

Couldn't get to the Shorai website - wonder if they are toast?

There is actually a group buy going on right now on the barf where he is offering the 8-cell battery w/ a built in volt meter for $161. It has traditional posts on it rather than the quick disconnect leads though...

http://www.bayareari...158#post6363158

Unfortunately, I found this AFTER I had mine ordered. I don't really mind though cause I like the whole quick disconnect feature...

[image: View Post]Kanadian Ken, on 05 February 2011 - 11:09 PM, said:

My battery is pooched right now - I'm going to order one of these MOTY 8 cell units. A Yuasa standard battery here is about $120 anyway - for the extra $40 I see advantages that are worth it.

Couldn't get to the Shorai website - wonder if they are toast?
I think I read somewhere that he charges an extra $10 to ship to the Great White North. Also, just to give the guy some credit, he emailed me back within like 5 minutes of sending the PayPal payment letting me know he had received it. About an hour later he emailed me a picture of the package addressed to me w/ a USPS tracking label on it. Great service ordering on a Saturday and getting it in the mail the same day!!! :biggrin:

[image: View Post]toddulu, on 05 February 2011 - 11:47 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Kanadian Ken, on 05 February 2011 - 11:09 PM, said:

My battery is pooched right now - I'm going to order one of these MOTY 8 cell units. A Yuasa standard battery here is about $120 anyway - for the extra $40 I see advantages that are worth it.

Couldn't get to the Shorai website - wonder if they are toast?
I think I read somewhere that he charges an extra $10 to ship to the Great White North. Also, just to give the guy some credit, he emailed me back within like 5 minutes of sending the PayPal payment letting me know he had received it. About an hour later he emailed me a picture of the package addressed to me w/ a USPS tracking label on it. Great service ordering on a Saturday and getting it in the mail the same day!!! :biggrin:

Thats AOK with me!! I get tired of folks in the USA that aren't willing to ship north of the border due to having to fill out a form for customs. $10 for extra shipping - done deal. Sounds like he's providing great customer service.

Thanks for the extra info. And as for the BARF group buy - I'd rather go with the quick disconnects as well. Thanks for that heads up though!

:fing02:

An agm yuasa weighs about 7 or 8 lb, you save about 6 lbs and get alot of unproven risk at a much higher price.


I just dont get it myself , and good AGM's dont Leak, but should be interesting entertainment value in following the topic

[image: View Post]toddulu, on 05 February 2011 - 11:47 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Kanadian Ken, on 05 February 2011 - 11:09 PM, said:

My battery is pooched right now - I'm going to order one of these MOTY 8 cell units. A Yuasa standard battery here is about $120 anyway - for the extra $40 I see advantages that are worth it.

Couldn't get to the Shorai website - wonder if they are toast?
I think I read somewhere that he charges an extra $10 to ship to the Great White North. Also, just to give the guy some credit, he emailed me back within like 5 minutes of sending the PayPal payment letting me know he had received it. About an hour later he emailed me a picture of the package addressed to me w/ a USPS tracking label on it. Great service ordering on a Saturday and getting it in the mail the same day!!! :biggrin:

+1
I emailed the guy and within an hour he answered back, and then I shot him paypal money I think on a Monday, and I had the battery in hand on Wednesday. Service wise, I would definately order from him again.

I've been reading a bit about this new wave in battery tech, and it seems the cell to use is the a123 Systems. The first guys making and selling these batteries to the moto community were getting the genuine article, but now a lot of Chinese knock-offs are in the market and harming the reputations of these style batteries.
One way to find the real deal yourself is to get a DeWalt 36v battery pack. Apparently they have enough cells in them for two bike batteries. (presumably 18?) I've seen some tutorials on youtube about taking the cells out, and of building the bike style battery. DeWalt packs go for a little more than the bike battery retails. So if you have the proper soldering tools, wiring and plugs, and the heat shrink wrapping you could have two batteries at a good price.
There's a guy in Oz making them with hard plastic top and bottom plates that are bolted together. But theory is those defeat the built in failure venting on the end caps, and cause the cell to explode if there is a failure.
I think that a123 is in the process of building a new plant outside Detroit, so perhaps in the near future these batteries will be much more readily and cheaply available?
Our buddy Jared (Thirdgenlxi, he of the 200,000+ mile F4i) recently got one of the MOTY batteries. I believe the first one failed rather quickly, but was replaced at no cost, no problem. Haven't heard anything else after that. But then maybe I haven't been paying attention...