My Suspension Makeover is Now Complete

About a month ago, I dismantled the front and rear suspension and took them to Lindemann for a complete rework of forks and Penske 8983 shock replacement. Now, it's all back together again but this time my suspenders are an entirely new ballgame. I've gone from the minor leagues to the majors in one fell swoop! As I mentioned elsewhere this makes the third bike I've had reworked by Lindemann, you might say I'm a believer in his suspension tuning touch (his business skills are another matter but that's a different topic). I can say without reservation that the nearly $2K I've spent on this upgrade is worth every penny, far more meaningful than some fluffy exhaust cannister or such cosmetic mod.

I spent today out on my preferred "test track" which is actually an out of the way road which features a mix of technical twisties, esses, sweepers, and bumps with which to evaluate my suspension adjustments. At the end of the day, I've got my suspension tuned just the way I like it. With the stock suspension, I had to choose between firm rebound for stability in the twisties but quite harsh over bumps, or comfortable rebound for general riding but wallowly in the twisties.

No more. Not even close. With properly selected spring rates, compression, and rebound, I've got a very balanced machine which is both compliant, plush even, over the bumps and very stable in the technical stuff. My forks now have BOTH compression and rebound adjustment whereas the stock fork is rebound only. The Penske 8983 of course has both compression and rebound. The spring rates on both ends were increased by nearly 20% as they were undersprung and compression damping was low.

To say that I'm pleased with the results would be a huge understatement. I'm a firm believer after 3 bikes with professionally tuned suspension that money spent on quality suspension work is the best thing you can do to a motorcycle. It easily trumps exhaust modifications which although it reduces poundage cannot match the benefits of properly matched suspension. Even buying a bike with top shelf Ohlins doesn't mean much if it's not tailored for the bike, rider, and type of riding.

Out with the old, in with the new:
[image: Attached Image: Penske 00203.jpg]

I had to make a temporary mounting bracket for the compression damper out of some aluminum angle stock I had laying around, it's definitely a bit ghetto with the zip ties and all, but it'll have to suffice until the real bracket is completed:
[image: Attached Image: Penske 00405.jpg]

[image: Attached Image: Penske 00607.jpg]

I had to sacrifice a bit of convenience with the Penske as it doesn't have a remote preload adjuster like the stock shock but the adjuster ring is easily accessible, a trade-off I'm more than willing to make.
[image: Attached Image: Penske 00506.jpg]

Finally, I raised the forks about 3mm higher than the stock position as measured between the top of the clamp and the retainer ring clip. The stock sag measured 48mm, but now is 40mm, so by raising the fork by 3mm, the overall rise on the front end is 5mm above stock. BTW, the compression adjuster is what you're looking at, compression is on the left, rebound is on the right.
[image: Attached Image: Penske 00701.jpg]

In back the stock sag was 40mm, is now 30mm. So with the rear being 10mm higher and front 5mm higher relative to stock, effectively the rear is 5mm higher than the front which helps significantly reduce turn-in effort.

So now I'm truly a happy camper, my VFR is working sooo much better for me and has transformed it into something truly remarkable. I highly recommended this upgrade to anyone with the means to do so. :fing02:

I agree 100%. When I picked up my K1300s, I added front and rear Ohlins within a couple of months. $2k well spent dollars without question. You are so correct about aftermarket exhaust, to save 10lbs and add maybe 5hp, just doesn't add up. Don't get me wrong, a new Remus is up next, but I went with improved suspension first.

I see you are in SJ, we should link up for a ride sometime. I'm in SF, but ride in the Peninsula most of the time.

Very nice, & congrats!

One thing though... for $2k, you'd think they coulda wrapped some teflon tape around your adjusters to keep from mangling the finish the way they did!

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 26 September 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Very nice, & congrats!

One thing though... for $2k, you'd think they coulda wrapped some teflon tape around your adjusters to keep from mangling the finish the way they did!

I was thinking the same thing.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 26 September 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Very nice, & congrats!

One thing though... for $2k, you'd think they coulda wrapped some teflon tape around your adjusters to keep from mangling the finish the way they did!


You may have touched on the "business skills" part of Solo's post.

Yes, firm believer here in useing the farkle money on suspension First (according to your weight and riding needs)
Anytime this message can rise to top of a riders forum is a good thing!

I had my forks worked over by Lindemann and have been to his shop several times and will return, hopefully.
It's a sight to behold. (Think Sanford and Son :) People send him pieces to work on from around the world from the shipping labels laying about.
For me it's kinda like, would you eat at some of the restauarants you frequent if you had visual access to the kitchen?

I saved the pleasure of doing the rear shock swap myself but when done, they were happy to help me set sag.

From what I understand from my conversations with him, he is an off shoot from the original Fox Shocks company and started his own thing. Loaded up a cargo van/mobile shop and would set up camp at various local AMA race tracks to work his skills.

So the pretty "protecting the finish" thing isn't part of the fabric. They were always about reducing lap times!


Not sure if he or his crew is still doing the race track scene as much these days due to some medical issues that he freely shared.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 26 September 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Very nice, & congrats!

One thing though... for $2k, you'd think they coulda wrapped some teflon tape around your adjusters to keep from mangling the finish the way they did!


I can understand your assumption that Lindemann marred the finish on the preload nut, but no that was not his doing. Before taking the forks to him, I had done a lot of twiddling of the rebound and preload in my search for the best settings and in doing so, quite naturally the anodizing on the nut eventually wore off on the corners. I quite like the look, it sorta lets people know I'm not content with leaving suspension settings untouched. :cool:

[image: View Post]bayarearider, on 26 September 2010 - 10:05 AM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 26 September 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Very nice, & congrats!

One thing though... for $2k, you'd think they coulda wrapped some teflon tape around your adjusters to keep from mangling the finish the way they did!


You may have touched on the "business skills" part of Solo's post.

Yes, firm believer here in useing the farkle money on suspension First (according to your weight and riding needs)
Anytime this message can rise to top of a riders forum is a good thing!

I had my forks worked over by Lindemann and have been to his shop several times and will return, hopefully.
It's a sight to behold. (Think Sanford and Son :) People send him pieces to work on from around the world from the shipping labels laying about.
For me it's kinda like, would you eat at some of the restauarants you frequent if you had visual access to the kitchen?

I saved the pleasure of doing the rear shock swap myself but when done, they were happy to help me set sag.

From what I understand from my conversations with him, he is an off shoot from the original Fox Shocks company and started his own thing. Loaded up a cargo van/mobile shop and would set up camp at various local AMA race tracks to work his skills.

So the pretty "protecting the finish" thing isn't part of the fabric. They were always about reducing lap times!


Not sure if he or his crew is still doing the race track scene as much these days due to some medical issues that he freely shared.


Sanford and Son is the perfect description of Jim's shop :laughing6-hehe: His "in box" is just a huge stack of papers on the desk, and his filing system is pretty much the same! I've read some horror stories on the net of Jim losing checks, records, etc. that could easily be fixed with just a bit more organizational skill, but in the end we're not paying for his organizational skill but his craft. In my case, a two week job turned into four weeks just because of poor planning.

Jim is still doing the track scene despite his serious medical condition (I won't divulge the particulars but most of us would not wish this on our worst enemy). In fact my job was delayed a few days because he was unexpectedly called upon to work with a new Moto2 chassis developer for next years MotoGP season, he went down to Willow Springs to work on their suspension. That sorta tells you about Jim's reputation in the industry. If anyone chooses to do business with Jim, they will need an extra measure or two of patience to make up for his poor business practices and health issues, but at the end of the day, there simply is only a handful of people who do what he does at his level.

Mind my asking what just the front end work cost?

[image: View Post]pres589, on 26 September 2010 - 03:15 PM, said:

Mind my asking what just the front end work cost?

Not at all.
His website states $600 for basic valving including springs, oil, seals. Add $200 extra when converting rebound to compression damping in one leg as I had done. All prices do not include sales tax.

Solomoto:

I recently installed a Penske 8983 on my 07 FZ-1 and am sorting out the compression and rebound settings.

While I realize these bikes are different, may I ask how many clicks out from full in "seated" you are running for compression and rebound damping for street use on your VFR12?

WWWobble

[image: View Post]wwwobble, on 28 September 2010 - 07:03 PM, said:

Solomoto:

I recently installed a Penske 8983 on my 07 FZ-1 and am sorting out the compression and rebound settings.

While I realize these bikes are different, may I ask how many clicks out from full in "seated" you are running for compression and rebound damping for street use on your VFR12?

WWWobble

The bikes are very different of course and so is the weight. My settings probably have no bearing on your settings, it depends your riding style, internal valving, individual preference, etc. Since you're in the bay area, pay a visit to Lindemann. For a nominal fee, he will set your sag, and adjust comp and rebound to be in the ballpark, then you can make adjustments from there.

I am interested to know how Linderman added compression adjustment to a fork that does not come OEM with compression damping adjustment, pics please!

He said that Compression is in one leg, and Rebound is in the other leg. Seems to me that you would need a healthy fork brace to take some of the strain off the axle.

[image: View Post]chris2992, on 29 September 2010 - 08:40 AM, said:

He said that Compression is in one leg, and Rebound is in the other leg. Seems to me that you would need a healthy fork brace to take some of the strain off the axle.

One would think the imbalance would need a brace or something, but not true. In fact this is a common technique as I've learned, even top level race bikes employ this technique so it is well proven concept. I can attest it works quite well.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 29 September 2010 - 11:51 AM, said:

[image: View Post]chris2992, on 29 September 2010 - 08:40 AM, said:

He said that Compression is in one leg, and Rebound is in the other leg. Seems to me that you would need a healthy fork brace to take some of the strain off the axle.

One would think the imbalance would need a brace or something, but not true. In fact this is a common technique as I've learned, even top level race bikes employ this technique so it is well proven concept. I can attest it works quite well.

I have traxxion cartridges in my sv650's forks which are set up the same way (compression in one and rebound in the other). This is how the R1's suspension comes from the factory too. BTW, the traxxion fork cartridges and penske triple clicker shock is the best mod I ever did on my SV650. It's going to be a while before I do the suspension on my new VFR1200f, but I will do it to this bike at some point.

The legs work as one unit. You can also mix spring rates to achieve in between rates.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 29 September 2010 - 11:51 AM, said:

In fact this is a common technique as I've learned, even top level race bikes employ this technique so it is well proven concept.

It is common on mountainbike forks, never seen it on a motorcycle fork.

I just wonder how they achieve that? There is a rod that goes into the oem rebound stack that clicks off and adds more or less oil volume flow, do they exchange the compression stack and rebound stack upside down? Interesting to know what they did to give you compression adjustment on the rebound adjustment point?

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[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 29 September 2010 - 06:07 PM, said:

I just wonder how they achieve that? There is a rod that goes into the oem rebound stack that clicks off and adds more or less oil volume flow, do they exchange the compression stack and rebound stack upside down? Interesting to know what they did to give you compression adjustment on the rebound adjustment point?

Yeah, pretty much a reconfiguration of the valving to convert from rebound to compression. The bottom of the cartridge I think is closed off where the compression stack is normally located. Straight forward mechanically but the magic is in how it's tuned.

Just a bit of an update:

I now have several hundred miles since last weekend on my new suspension. More than ever before, I am enjoying what the VFR1200 always promised to be but I could never quite achieve with the stock suspension. It's like a whole new bike (well, it IS a new bike, but all over again! :goofy: ).

The difference in cornering is night and day. Braking into turns is far more stable and controlled without nearly as much dive as the stock forks, and trail braking (with balanced front and rear braking) no longer makes the bike want to stand up entering turns. Acceleration out of turns is now tight and precise, no more drifting wide due to a sagging rear end. Bump compliance is very good, plush even; the suspension provides a supple feel even as it is much more firm and stable in the turns. Exactly what I was expecting based on my prior suspension work with Lindemann and Penske.

The problem with the stock suspension is at least twofold:
1. The springs are under sprung, too light for the bikes weight. I went from .85mm/kg to 1.0mm/kg in front, and about 1000 lb/inch to 1200 lb/inch in the rear.
2. The fixed compression damping is too light front and rear

The combined effect of soft springs and light compression damping was a harsh ride. Yes, that is counterintuitive but true. By increasing the rebound damping to stabilize the bike and eliminate wallowing, the suspension "packs down" over bumps and makes it quite harsh over even mild bumps. Reducing rebound damping does the opposite: the bike is more comfortable over bumps but becomes less stable in the turns.

By increasing both spring rate and compression damping, not only is the weight properly supported but the compression damping prevents the suspension from packing down and blowing thru its travel on bumps. Again, counterintuitive, but the ride is now much more compliant and plush. Mind you, I'm not talking "cadillac" plush, but average road bumps are felt with a muted or softened thud as opposed to sharp, often painful jolts to the wrists and back.

For what it's worth, here are my suspension settings (I think I'm about average weight, about 170lbs with gear):
Front: 40mm sag with rider; compression: 10 clicks out; rebound: 10 clicks out. Applies only to Lindemann tuned forks with compression conversion.
Rear: 30mm sag with rider; compression: 13 clicks out; rebound: 18 clicks out. Applies to Penske 8983 with valving setup for the VFR1200 and 1200 lb/inch spring.

One side effect of my new suspension: my tires seem to be wearing faster. At just over 4000 miles, I'm just about down to the wear bars. Why you ask? The bike is now so much more confidence inspiring and stable that I find myself braking more aggressively, carrying more corner speed, and accelerating harder coming out. All of which are harder on the tires. If this is the price I have to pay for a great suspension, then so be it! :fing02:

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: money spent on properly sorted suspension components is the best thing you can do for a bike. Before you throw money at farkles like exhaust cans, even a power commander, put it into your suspension. You'll thank me for my advice if you do. :beer:

One more bit of an update: I forgot to include the latest fork offset settings in the triple clamp.

Since the stock sag was 48mm and the new sag is now 40mm, the front end ride height is a full 8mm higher than original. I found this much increase caused very high level steering effort, simple sweepers almost required manhandling the bars to get the bike to lean. I then raised the forks in the clamp by about 3mm with respect to the stock position (see original post), this helped greatly to lighten the steering effort. But later I decided to raise the forks an additional 5mm to essentially restore the original front end ride height i.e. +8mm due to reduced sag - 8mm due to raising the forks in the triple clamp= original ride height. With the original front end ride height restored, the steering effort is now low effort and responsive. Should anyone decide to have their forks reworked by Lindemann, I highly recommend you adjust the fork position to compensate for the reduced sag.

The original fork position has about 3-4mm of gap from the top of the bar clamp to the ring clip so raising the forks by 8mm means I should get 12mm total gap:

[image: Attached Image: Penske 70401.jpg]

One nice side benefit of this adjustment has allowed me to raise the handlebars 12mm simply by butting them against the ring clip at the top of the fork tubes:

[image: Attached Image: Penske 70202.jpg]

It almost feels as good as true Helibar, and depending on how much they are swept back (no longer locked in position), I can feel like I'm almost sitting bolt upright. I'm thinking I may not even need to get Helibars anymore, I'll have to see how it feels over the next few weeks.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 04 October 2010 - 12:48 AM, said:

One more bit of an update: I forgot to include the latest fork offset settings in the triple clamp.

Since the stock sag was 48mm and the new sag is now 40mm, the front end ride height is a full 8mm higher than original.


Interesting I think I would have just cranked it off like normal but this should provide a bit more comfort. Perhaps you can get a riser machined that has a notch for the handle bar tabs so you have that safety of not pinning your hand in the event of a tip over?

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 04 October 2010 - 02:18 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 04 October 2010 - 12:48 AM, said:

One more bit of an update: I forgot to include the latest fork offset settings in the triple clamp.

Since the stock sag was 48mm and the new sag is now 40mm, the front end ride height is a full 8mm higher than original.


Interesting I think I would have just cranked it off like normal but this should provide a bit more comfort. Perhaps you can get a riser machined that has a notch for the handle bar tabs so you have that safety of not pinning your hand in the event of a tip over?


Cranking off the preload wont give you more comfort. It will give you a lower front and therefore quiker turning in.
If you need a softer ride crank of the rebound damping or buy softer springs.

[image: View Post]Dutchgixxer, on 04 October 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 04 October 2010 - 02:18 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 04 October 2010 - 12:48 AM, said:

One more bit of an update: I forgot to include the latest fork offset settings in the triple clamp.

Since the stock sag was 48mm and the new sag is now 40mm, the front end ride height is a full 8mm higher than original.


Interesting I think I would have just cranked it off like normal but this should provide a bit more comfort. Perhaps you can get a riser machined that has a notch for the handle bar tabs so you have that safety of not pinning your hand in the event of a tip over?


Cranking off the preload wont give you more comfort. It will give you a lower front and therefore quiker turning in.
If you need a softer ride crank of the rebound damping or buy softer springs.

Yes this is true. A common misconception by most folks is that preload will make the spring rate harder or softer. Nope, preload is nothing more than a linear offset adjustment to raise or lower ride height on front or rear. For a given weight (bike + rider), the spring compresses the same amount because the amount of weight it must support is the same regardless of the ride height.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 04 October 2010 - 01:45 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Dutchgixxer, on 04 October 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 04 October 2010 - 02:18 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 04 October 2010 - 12:48 AM, said:

One more bit of an update: I forgot to include the latest fork offset settings in the triple clamp.

Since the stock sag was 48mm and the new sag is now 40mm, the front end ride height is a full 8mm higher than original.


Interesting I think I would have just cranked it off like normal but this should provide a bit more comfort. Perhaps you can get a riser machined that has a notch for the handle bar tabs so you have that safety of not pinning your hand in the event of a tip over?


Cranking off the preload wont give you more comfort. It will give you a lower front and therefore quiker turning in.
If you need a softer ride crank of the rebound damping or buy softer springs.

Yes this is true. A common misconception by most folks is that preload will make the spring rate harder or softer. Nope, preload is nothing more than a linear offset adjustment to raise or lower ride height on front or rear. For a given weight (bike + rider), the spring compresses the same amount because the amount of weight it must support is the same regardless of the ride height.


Wow! Thank you for that...I just got a major misconception education. So when I go to the track and the guy cranks my preload adjusters 1.5 turns on the forks and two clicks on the shock, all he's doing is lowing my bike? Wouldn't my ride "feel" stiffer with less dive upon hard braking and less compression in bumpy sections since the springs are now compressed more than my weight only would have?

This story just keeps getting better and better!

Today, after just 4650miles, I replaced the original Roadsmarts which were basically shredded to the wear bars on the sides (no chicken strips to be found :biggrin: ) . I decided to go with Pilot Power 2CT's front and rear and I can tell you it made my sweet handling bike all that much sweeter. Even with the worn tires, the new suspension and associated ride height adjustments transformed the bike into a light steering twisties magnet. I could tell however that I was pushing the limits of traction that no suspension can compensate for. With the PP2CT's, that problem was emphatically eliminated, and the sportier nature of the tires made the already light steering quite (dare I say?) flickable! Even at ahemm... elevated speeds, the steering response was both light and stable. The new suspension keeps the tires firmly planted which is very confidence inspiring. The only down side is that I don't have high hopes for long tire life, because if I can shred a sport touring tire in less than 5000 miles, then I can guess the supersport rubber is going to be considerably worse, particularly now that the bike begs to be pushed harder which can do nothing but eat tires quicker. Oh well, such is the price to play in this game :laughing6-hehe:

[image: View Post]Dutchgixxer, on 04 October 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 04 October 2010 - 02:18 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 04 October 2010 - 12:48 AM, said:

One more bit of an update: I forgot to include the latest fork offset settings in the triple clamp.

Since the stock sag was 48mm and the new sag is now 40mm, the front end ride height is a full 8mm higher than original.


Interesting I think I would have just cranked it off like normal but this should provide a bit more comfort. Perhaps you can get a riser machined that has a notch for the handle bar tabs so you have that safety of not pinning your hand in the event of a tip over?


Cranking off the preload wont give you more comfort. It will give you a lower front and therefore quiker turning in.
If you need a softer ride crank of the rebound damping or buy softer springs.

Lowering the forks in the triples 8mm like he did WILL give you a bit more upright riding positon or comfort in his case - which is what I said. I also said I did not think of that myself cause I would have just lowered the bike by cranking off the preload, he doesnt need a softer ride he needed to lower the front end cause he put in stiffer springs so the bike does not sag as much now.