VFR800 track project

Hey guys, just thought I'd start a thread on the VFR track bike project I've started working on. Its currently just a tribute to Honda parts interchangeability, but I think I have some unique ideas to make it an interesting project.

So far the general plan is to build a lightweight VFR track mule without spending an insane amount of money on internal engine modifications and crazy carbon fiber body parts. As she sits, theres a 5th gen engine with RC51 SP2 front and rear ends, a 6th gen main frame and lower "cushion" as Honda calls it. Yes, you 5th genners can bolt this thing to your bikes and add normal rear sets, easy peezy.

It looks like I should be able to use the 5th/6th gen style linkage by adding the mount for the triangle to the SP2 swingarm. This seems to be the most straight forward way of doing the swing arm swap while making a minimum of modifications.

I would also like to add some reinforcement to the main frame, and even try to link the main frame to the "cushion" by means of a bolt on aluminum plate, similar to the plates Erion racing used(as well as Moriwaki, and I believe Harris or Spondon on the SuperHawk) on their 929's. As for front of the frame stiffening, I'd like to extend the front engine mounts to the lower part of the block/case ala the RC45. I may also add a cross tube between the frame spars above the forward cylinder head and near the steering stem, or just box that area in similar to the RC45.

Why not just buy an RC45?

A. They're too expensive

B. They're too rare

C. They're too expensive

D. I can't afford one

E. Where's the fun in that?

At the bare minimum it should be a fun track bike with a glorious V4 soundtrack sending shivers down my spine, something my CBR600RR just can't quite do, though the 600 will be my benchmark for handling!

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I'm looking forward to see how it turns out, You will find that without Carbon fibre it's difficult to lose weight. How much difference SSSA compered to the CBR Swingarm? I save more than 6 kg on mine RC36/2

I'm looking forward to see how it turns out, You will find that without Carbon fibre it's difficult to lose weight. How much difference SSSA compered to the CBR Swingarm? I save more than 6 kg on mine RC36/2

I don't have a SSSA to compare with, as this one is being built from pieces. I'll try to weigh the SP2 swing arm when I get a chance, if anyone has 5th or 6th gen swing arm weights feel free to chime in.

I definitely plan on leaving off anything that isn't necessary, so most likely will be going for a total loss system(VFR's come like that from the factory anyway) and minimal body work. Actually, I was thinking about a carbon RVF400 upper and tank cover, with a small aluminum tank under the seat, so carbon is not completely out of the question. At some point I have to separate dream from reality though, and try to be as realistic as possible with regards to how much money I want to put into this. To be honest, I'll be happy if the bike weighs less than my CBR, which is around 410lbs wet. But I'd like to shoot for around 375 lbs wet.

Very interesting. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

:cheerleader: :cheerleader:

Love the idea of it. Go, go, go!!

Don't forget to post your details on what works & what doesn't. How much wider is the 51 swinger than stock? Have you checked chain alignment yet?

I just finished reading the VFRD custom bike thread to start reading this. :lurk:

If you don't need those front caliper brackets, let me know!

So, those "cushions" bolt on in the same place as the stock 5th gen footpeg thingy's?

I can tell you that the 4th gen swingarm weighs 26.6 lbs. Should expect a conventional swingarm to weigh around half that.

Sweet!

Great project. :fing02:

What, if anything, do you have planned for correcting the front geometry?

How does the steering head angle on a 6th gen fram differ from the RC51 (I am assuming that those are RC51 upper and lower triples) and what are your plans for correcting rake and trail so that the steering is not adversely affected?

Keith

I haven't centered the swingarm or aligned the chain yet, waiting for some sprockets to show up so I can do that. Seems to be tons of room for the RC51 arm to slide side to side. As for the foot peg "cushion", so far it looks like a straight bolt on for a 5th gen, I haven't measured it, but it looks like the linkage mounts in exactly the same place as on the 5th gen. I know the dog bone is the same part number between 5th and 6th gens(triangle plates are different though, at least the part numbers are).

I suggest you replace the dogbone with a pair of large heim joints and a turnbuckle to more easily adjust your ride height later on.

Does anyone know what the swing arm length (pivot to axle center) is on a sixth gen? Trying to get a rough estimate for what my final wheelbase will be.

kostritzer

Does anyone know what the swing arm length (pivot to axle center) is on a sixth gen? Trying to get a rough estimate for what my final wheelbase will be.

2 chain links more than a 5th. :goofy:

SEBSPEED

I suggest you replace the dogbone with a pair of large heim joints and a turnbuckle to more easily adjust your ride height later on.

Thats definitely something to consider in the future, I will be playing with shock length as well.

KPerham

kostritzer

Does anyone know what the swing arm length (pivot to axle center) is on a sixth gen? Trying to get a rough estimate for what my final wheelbase will be.

2 chain links more than a 5th. :goofy:

Thats at least an inch! Probably pretty close to what the SP2 length is, I'll have to go back and re-measure it.

kostritzer

KPerham

kostritzer

Does anyone know what the swing arm length (pivot to axle center) is on a sixth gen? Trying to get a rough estimate for what my final wheelbase will be.

2 chain links more than a 5th. :goofy:

Thats at least an inch! Probably pretty close to what the SP2 length is, I'll have to go back and re-measure it.

Cool project, I would like to do something simular weight strip with another 5th gen in the future. Any chance you weigh the SP2 swingarm?

mello dude

kostritzer

KPerham

kostritzer

Does anyone know what the swing arm length (pivot to axle center) is on a sixth gen? Trying to get a rough estimate for what my final wheelbase will be.

2 chain links more than a 5th. :goofy:

Thats at least an inch! Probably pretty close to what the SP2 length is, I'll have to go back and re-measure it.

Cool project, I would like to do something simular weight strip with another 5th gen in the future. Any chance you weigh the SP2 swingarm?

Haven't weighed it yet, but will do so soon. I'll try to weigh the entire assembly, swing arm, wheel, hub axle etc. so we can compare it to the VFR stuff.

kostritzer

Does anyone know what the swing arm length (pivot to axle center) is on a sixth gen? Trying to get a rough estimate for what my final wheelbase will be.

I don't have anyway to accurately measure that at the moment, but if you're looking for ballpark I have a swingarm not on a bike and it's ~560 mm, or ~22 inches center to center.

If you can wait a couple days I can give you a very accurate dimension, PM me if you're interested.

JTG

kostritzer

Does anyone know what the swing arm length (pivot to axle center) is on a sixth gen? Trying to get a rough estimate for what my final wheelbase will be.

I don't have anyway to accurately measure that at the moment, but if you're looking for ballpark I have a swingarm not on a bike and it's ~560 mm, or ~22 inches center to center.

If you can wait a couple days I can give you a very accurate dimension, PM me if you're interested.

Is that with the axle adjuster rotated all the way forward? If so, thats actually about an inch longer than the SP2 arm which is about 530mm according to the guys on the superhawk site. According to measurements taken from a thread on superhawkforum.com, the 5th gen is approximately 515.5mm. IIRC the 6th gen's wheelbase is approximately 2" longer than the 5th gens, so that would make sense.

kostritzer

JTG

kostritzer

Does anyone know what the swing arm length (pivot to axle center) is on a sixth gen? Trying to get a rough estimate for what my final wheelbase will be.

I don't have anyway to accurately measure that at the moment, but if you're looking for ballpark I have a swingarm not on a bike and it's ~560 mm, or ~22 inches center to center.

If you can wait a couple days I can give you a very accurate dimension, PM me if you're interested.

Is that with the axle adjuster rotated all the way forward? If so, thats actually about an inch longer than the SP2 arm which is about 530mm according to the guys on the superhawk site. According to measurements taken from a thread on superhawkforum.com, the 5th gen is approximately 515.5mm. IIRC the 6th gen's wheelbase is approximately 2" longer than the 5th gens, so that would make sense.

I have the axle adjuster removed, so that's from the center of the pivot to the center of the hole left when you remove the axle adjuster... sorry, should have mentioned that before :blush:

JTG

kostritzer

JTG

kostritzer

Does anyone know what the swing arm length (pivot to axle center) is on a sixth gen? Trying to get a rough estimate for what my final wheelbase will be.

I don't have anyway to accurately measure that at the moment, but if you're looking for ballpark I have a swingarm not on a bike and it's ~560 mm, or ~22 inches center to center.

If you can wait a couple days I can give you a very accurate dimension, PM me if you're interested.

Is that with the axle adjuster rotated all the way forward? If so, thats actually about an inch longer than the SP2 arm which is about 530mm according to the guys on the superhawk site. According to measurements taken from a thread on superhawkforum.com, the 5th gen is approximately 515.5mm. IIRC the 6th gen's wheelbase is approximately 2" longer than the 5th gens, so that would make sense.

I have the axle adjuster removed, so that's from the center of the pivot to the center of the hole left when you remove the axle adjuster... sorry, should have mentioned that before :blush:

Ok, so that measurement is probably somewhere in the middle then.

Not much of an update, but I've machined the spacers for the swing arm pivot, and aligned the wheels.

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Unfortunately this project is going to be put on hold for a little while. Some weird little bike followed me home and it's demanding all my attention!

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Looking good - wheel/spockets lineups is probably the toughest part to get right.

mello dude

Looking good - wheel/spockets lineups is probably the toughest part to get right.

You're right, there is about 2mm between the inside of the right side swing arm pivot and the engine case. I'll have to machine a few mm from one side of the counter shaft sprocket to align the chain.

Done anything on this project lately?

KPerham

Done anything on this project lately?

Unfortunately no. Been too busy working on my NC30 project lately, but that's sort of done now. Gonna be tough squeezing in working on the 800 when the weather is so nice! The other issue is that money that could be spent on this project can go to trackdays....

Next step for the VFR wil be to fabricate and weld a link onto the swingarm for the VFR linkage to mount to. At that point I should probably start looking for a running wrecked 5th gen to cannibalize.

BTW, Justin got the forks he bought from you re-valved and re-sprung, so we should start installing the F4i front end on his(my old) 5th gen this weekend!

kostritzer

KPerham

Done anything on this project lately?

Unfortunately no. Been too busy working on my NC30 project lately, but that's sort of done now. Gonna be tough squeezing in working on the 800 when the weather is so nice! The other issue is that money that could be spent on this project can go to trackdays....

Next step for the VFR wil be to fabricate and weld a link onto the swingarm for the VFR linkage to mount to. At that point I should probably start looking for a running wrecked 5th gen to cannibalize.

BTW, Justin got the forks he bought from you re-valved and re-sprung, so we should start installing the F4i front end on his(my old) 5th gen this weekend!

I'll be keeping an eye out for progress reports on both builds. :fing02: I'm sure the F4i forks will work great!

KPerham

kostritzer

KPerham

Done anything on this project lately?

Unfortunately no. Been too busy working on my NC30 project lately, but that's sort of done now. Gonna be tough squeezing in working on the 800 when the weather is so nice! The other issue is that money that could be spent on this project can go to trackdays....

Next step for the VFR wil be to fabricate and weld a link onto the swingarm for the VFR linkage to mount to. At that point I should probably start looking for a running wrecked 5th gen to cannibalize.

BTW, Justin got the forks he bought from you re-valved and re-sprung, so we should start installing the F4i front end on his(my old) 5th gen this weekend!

I'll be keeping an eye out for progress reports on both builds. :fing02: I'm sure the F4i forks will work great!

F4i conversion went smooth as a whistle. He ended up using the VTEC triples, F4i forks, F4i clip ons and VFR front axle/wheel/spacers/rotors. We also installed a complete RC51 front brake setup. Turns out the original lower triple and forks were considerably bent!

Justin is a mechanical engineer, and his future father in law runs a very nice machine shop, so between the two of them I should have the swing arm link figured out here pretty quickly!

Updates?

kostritzer

Not much of an update, but I've machined the spacers for the swing arm pivot, and aligned the wheels.

Hey all,

Best Thread ever! I have signed up just so I can join in.

I have similar plans with my Gen5, with USD forks/radial mount calipers for the front and I was looking at conventional, most likely either CBR954 or CBR600RR(3,4,5) swingarms.

Issues/considerations at Front-end: The driver is to get stiffer forks and better brakes. Biggest issue I see at the front-end, As is well discussed, is the fork offset which seems to be unusually large on the VFR800's, the way I see it to keep a short trail they ran a large rake angle (anybody care to comment why they went this way???) I'd actually like to keep this setup if possible as the VFR geometry is pretty sweet IMO.

Issues/considerations at Rear-end: Swingarms from RC51, CBR929, 954 and 600RR3-5 seem like they'd need the least work (similar setup, pivot bolt through engine cases). I need to book a trip out to a wrecker armed with a tape measure and verniers and start measuring everything up; I'd be very interested in swingarm lengths, pivot inner and outer dimensions, and weights of course. Again, a few people have commented that the SSSA is a bit of a porker, so I'd be keen to see how much weight can be spared. I will definately be weighing these components when I embark on this (targeting winter, starting to source parts already).

Once more loving what you're doing, and am dead-keen to get into it myself! (But I have to make the most of a British summer first!)

btec116

kostritzer

Not much of an update, but I've machined the spacers for the swing arm pivot, and aligned the wheels.

Hey all,

Best Thread ever! I have signed up just so I can join in.

I have similar plans with my Gen5, with USD forks/radial mount calipers for the front and I was looking at conventional, most likely either CBR954 or CBR600RR(3,4,5) swingarms.

Issues/considerations at Front-end: The driver is to get stiffer forks and better brakes. Biggest issue I see at the front-end, As is well discussed, is the fork offset which seems to be unusually large on the VFR800's, the way I see it to keep a short trail they ran a large rake angle (anybody care to comment why they went this way???) I'd actually like to keep this setup if possible as the VFR geometry is pretty sweet IMO.

Issues/considerations at Rear-end: Swingarms from RC51, CBR929, 954 and 600RR3-5 seem like they'd need the least work (similar setup, pivot bolt through engine cases). I need to book a trip out to a wrecker armed with a tape measure and verniers and start measuring everything up; I'd be very interested in swingarm lengths, pivot inner and outer dimensions, and weights of course. Again, a few people have commented that the SSSA is a bit of a porker, so I'd be keen to see how much weight can be spared. I will definately be weighing these components when I embark on this (targeting winter, starting to source parts already).

Once more loving what you're doing, and am dead-keen to get into it myself! (But I have to make the most of a British summer first!)

I've gone back and forth on the swingarm for this bike. I have an 05 600RR swing arm that I was looking into fitting, but I think its a bit too long compared to the SP2 swing arm which is maybe an inch longer than the 800 swing arm. It is also quite a bit narrower than the VFR engine case pivot point, so you'd have to get creative there. One nice thing about it is that besides the pivot, the only other thing you would need to adapt it it the dogbone link, since the shock is completely contained in the swingarm. I think the main reason I decided to go with the SP2 swinger is the fact that its gotta be one of the best looking arms I've seen(when cleaned up!) If you need any dimensions on either arm, let me know!

I actually have the bike strapped to my trailer as I type this. Gonna take it down to my friends shop so he can have a look at the swingarm to decide the best way to modify it for the VFR linkage.

Also looking into buying a running 5th gen donor bike to speed up the project. There are a couple of ratty 6th gens on CL local to me at the moment, but I really want to hold out for the gear driven whine from heaven!

Just sold my pretty NC30 road bike and am looking into buying a friends NC30 track bike, so that may slow down the project a little bit if I get my hands on that! I want to be able to switch back and forth from 360 and 180 degree V4 music!

kostritzer

I've gone back and forth on the swingarm for this bike. I have an 05 600RR swing arm that I was looking into fitting, but I think its a bit too long compared to the SP2 swing arm which is maybe an inch longer than the 800 swing arm. It is also quite a bit narrower than the VFR engine case pivot point, so you'd have to get creative there. One nice thing about it is that besides the pivot, the only other thing you would need to adapt it it the dogbone link, since the shock is completely contained in the swingarm. I think the main reason I decided to go with the SP2 swinger is the fact that its gotta be one of the best looking arms I've seen(when cleaned up!) If you need any dimensions on either arm, let me know!

I actually have the bike strapped to my trailer as I type this. Gonna take it down to my friends shop so he can have a look at the swingarm to decide the best way to modify it for the VFR linkage.

Also looking into buying a running 5th gen donor bike to speed up the project. There are a couple of ratty 6th gens on CL local to me at the moment, but I really want to hold out for the gear driven whine from heaven!

Just sold my pretty NC30 road bike and am looking into buying a friends NC30 track bike, so that may slow down the project a little bit if I get my hands on that! I want to be able to switch back and forth from 360 and 180 degree V4 music!

OK great to know, I almost wanted to buy a CBR6-RR swingarm, glad I didn't now. But I've now found one off a CBR954 which I should get in a couple of days, and I'll intend to use a shock off the same, I see some people already run these on the standard VFR800 rear ends. It'd still be interesting to compare some measurements against the RC51 though, such as inner and outer pivot point widths, and pivot/rear axle length (which if I recall is already written further up this thread?) and weight. When I get the CBR954 swingarm I'll do the same. Interestingly, I chose the 954 arm for the same reason you chose the RC51; it looks the best! Regarding the CBR600 (and hence CBR1000) swingarm design incorporating the top shock mount, I've thought about this and was a bit worried that passing all the loads of rear wheel movement solely through the engine cases could be introducing a bit more stress than the engine cases were designed for, without frame spars...

I have realised one minor problem common to both RC51 and 954 swingarms, they don't allow any room for the rear exhaust headers, this would have been nicely provided with the late model CBR-RR swingarms having a section removed to pass the under-seat exhaust mid section. Have you planned any good solutions for this??

As for rear wheel, love the look of the RC51 five-spoker, so hopefully I'll be able to make that work with the CBR swingarm. We'll see...

Gear-drive, IMO, is at least as aurally important as having the Vee in the first place!!!

btec116

I have realised one minor problem common to both RC51 and 954 swingarms, they don't allow any room for the rear exhaust headers, this would have been nicely provided with the late model CBR-RR swingarms having a section removed to pass the under-seat exhaust mid section. Have you planned any good solutions for this??

As for rear wheel, love the look of the RC51 five-spoker, so hopefully I'll be able to make that work with the CBR swingarm. We'll see...

Well, on the SP2 there is a space on the right side of the swing arm for an exhaust actually, not much, but something. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it I guess!

As for the SP2 wheels on a CBR swinger, I've heard they're a straight swap in the rear.

Heres a Durbahn beauty for an example of the exhaust routing[image: SP2_Aufm.rearrightLicht.jpg]

I've been looking at those 954 swingarms, looks like they'd be an almost direct fit! Same style linkage as the VFR, and similar length and spacing compared to the SP2 arm, hmmmm..... The only issue I see with it is the lack of space on the right hand side for the exhaust.

Well, I took the bike down to the machinist this weekend to get his advice. He said it won't be a problem to CNC a lug to weld to the bottom of the swingarm. Now I just have to get my engineer friend to take some final measurements and draw it up in solidworks for me!

Anyone in SoCal have a good running sub $1500 5th gen they'd like to sell me? I'm thinking about going to a 5th gen main frame as there is a class up in the SF bay area called "super dinosaur" that allows bikes 99 and under to run competitively, but thats just a pipe dream at the moment.

OK, I've received the CBR954 swingarm. I made some measurements:

LENGTH 540-565mm

(centre of swingarm pivot to centre of rear axle, accounting for 25mm rear axle movement)

WIDTH1 190mm

(measured between pivots to account for crankcase width)

WIDTH2 290mm

(measured outside of pivots, for lower brace/footpeg mounts)

SHOCK LINKAGE MOUNT

WIDTH 39mm

(identical to the VFR800 mount)

Means I will need to fit spacers between the swingarm and cases, I couldn't get a good measurement, but the cases are about 160mm wide I think. Anyone know what the swingarm pivot bolt diameter is? It's about 24mm on the 954. I will definitely have issues with the rear headers, they have nowhere to go at the moment. I'm thinking about a CBR1000RR swingarm as well, it has a beautiful cut-out for the tail-mount exhaust, but the design is quite different, with a continuous pivot tube. But the bearing seats look pretty simple and I think this could be made to work, it would also mean the rear pivot could be cut out to fit straight around the VFR engine cases, eliminating the need for extra spacers. Hmmm, too many options!

btec116

OK, I've received the CBR954 swingarm. I made some measurements:

LENGTH 540-565mm

(centre of swingarm pivot to centre of rear axle, accounting for 25mm rear axle movement)

WIDTH1 190mm

(measured between pivots to account for crankcase width)

WIDTH2 290mm

(measured outside of pivots, for lower brace/footpeg mounts)

SHOCK LINKAGE MOUNT

WIDTH 39mm

(identical to the VFR800 mount)

Means I will need to fit spacers between the swingarm and cases, I couldn't get a good measurement, but the cases are about 160mm wide I think. Anyone know what the swingarm pivot bolt diameter is? It's about 24mm on the 954. I will definitely have issues with the rear headers, they have nowhere to go at the moment. I'm thinking about a CBR1000RR swingarm as well, it has a beautiful cut-out for the tail-mount exhaust, but the design is quite different, with a continuous pivot tube. But the bearing seats look pretty simple and I think this could be made to work, it would also mean the rear pivot could be cut out to fit straight around the VFR engine cases, eliminating the need for extra spacers. Hmmm, too many options!

Those measurements seem to be pretty close to what these guys are getting over on the superhawk (firehawk to you brits?) site. Here's a link just for reference http://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/technical-discussion-28/swingarm-measurements-comparisons-17027/

I think I'm gonna stick with the SP2 swing arm for now since its about 75% figured out, and I really like the look. Besides, if you're doing the 954 arm then every one will benefit from two different conversion threads right?

As far as I remember, the VFR pivot bolt diameter is 20mm, thats one of the reasons I went with the SP2 arm as they use the same diameter pivot bolt. The SP1 uses the larger 25mm pivot, and I assume the 954 does as well. You should be able to remove the spacers in the engine case of the VFR and have them opened up to 25mm ID.

kostritzer

Those measurements seem to be pretty close to what these guys are getting over on the superhawk (firehawk to you brits?) site. Here's a link just for reference http://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/technical-discussion-28/swingarm-measurements-comparisons-17027/

I think I'm gonna stick with the SP2 swing arm for now since its about 75% figured out, and I really like the look. Besides, if you're doing the 954 arm then every one will benefit from two different conversion threads right?

As far as I remember, the VFR pivot bolt diameter is 20mm, thats one of the reasons I went with the SP2 arm as they use the same diameter pivot bolt. The SP1 uses the larger 25mm pivot, and I assume the 954 does as well. You should be able to remove the spacers in the engine case of the VFR and have them opened up to 25mm ID.

Ahh, I never thought about checking on superhawk forums... THanks for the Spacer idea, sounds alot easier than having new spacers machined to suit the VFR bolt...

Just to clarify, I didn't want to change your plans, I think they're awesome! And, I agree with you totally, we're taking two paths to the same solutions, gives others more options if they want to do the same.

But Anyway, if I was intending to copy you, what'd be the point in me posting?! :biggrin:

What I would be interested in though is weights; if you get your swingarm back, can you weigh it? I'll do the same as soon as I find somewhere that sells scales... We just moved to the UK (midlands) and some things are rather rare here (Errm, either that or we are clueless...) At the moment this includes bathroom scales and Methylated Spirits... Random! Luckily, cheap ebay bike parts and machine shops are in great abundance!!!

I'll definitely try to weigh the arm the next time I have it off. Actually, I need to remove it soon to mill the old lugs off so we can take measurements for the new lug. Wish I had the old VFR swingarm to weigh for comparison!

kostritzer

I'll definitely try to weigh the arm the next time I have it off. Actually, I need to remove it soon to mill the old lugs off so we can take measurements for the new lug. Wish I had the old VFR swingarm to weigh for comparison!

Thats the magic number I am curoius about. 6th gen is x pounds, 5th gen is x pounds...... Weight drop with RC51 arm is .....x. - I'm just curious what a tail job and swing arm swap would drop xx pounds. It would be interesting how reasonably far a streetable 5th gen could get without going crazy with carbon fibre.

mello dude

kostritzer

I'll definitely try to weigh the arm the next time I have it off. Actually, I need to remove it soon to mill the old lugs off so we can take measurements for the new lug. Wish I had the old VFR swingarm to weigh for comparison!

Thats the magic number I am curoius about. 6th gen is x pounds, 5th gen is x pounds...... Weight drop with RC51 arm is .....x. - I'm just curious what a tail job and swing arm swap would drop xx pounds. It would be interesting how reasonably far a streetable 5th gen could get without going crazy with carbon fibre.

I think the main problem the VFR has with weight is its engine, so you really have to take weight off everywhere to make a big difference. Of course with a 5th and 6th gen, the main frame is pretty light as its minimal. Of course I'd trade a bit of weight for some rigidity up near the front! If you compare a 5th/6th gen frame to a true RR superbike frame, even an older one like the RC45, the whole front structure is very open around the front cylinder head, its not braced or attached to the head in any way. Might make using full race slicks and stiff suspension a bit interesting on the track, we shall see! I think a street VFR with lots of lightweight mods should be able to get down to the low 400's or so, would definitely make mincemeat of most 600's if not a lot of liter bikes if set up properly and ridden well!

The motor is the soul of this bike. I'm interested in going with a RC46 replica at some point. Haven't taken my new to me CBR954 to the track yet but I do miss that velvety smooth V four motor when I'm riding canyons.

VFR Capt.Bob

The motor is the soul of this bike. I'm interested in going with a RC46 replica at some point. Haven't taken my new to me CBR954 to the track yet but I do miss that velvety smooth V four motor when I'm riding canyons.

100% agree with you! If the bike is at least as good as a trick 954 track bike with a V4 engine for a heart I'll be damn happy!

I've been searching for a track bike for a few months. CBR600, SV650, Ninja 650R, even a 2008+ Ninja 250R. Meanwhile, I have a perfectly good 5th gen VFR800 sitting in my garage gathering dust. It's stock with the exception of a Jardine slip-on and a Power Commander. I can only imagine how good it would sound (to me) charging down the main straight at Willow Springs. Thanks to this thread I am inspired to get this fat-boy 800 on a diet with some suspension mods and "run what I got." I'll be following the advise, ideas and goings-on here. Thanks.

Something like this, maybe:

[image: VFR-track3-1.jpg]

vguy

I've been searching for a track bike for a few months. CBR600, SV650, Ninja 650R, even a 2008+ Ninja 250R. Meanwhile, I have a perfectly good 5th gen VFR800 sitting in my garage gathering dust. It's stock with the exception of a Jardine slip-on and a Power Commander. I can only imagine how good it would sound (to me) charging down the main straight at Willow Springs. Thanks to this thread I am inspired to get this fat-boy 800 on a diet with some suspension mods and "run what I got." I'll be following the advise, ideas and goings-on here. Thanks.

Awesome, pretty soon we'll have to start a whole new section on VFRD for VFR track bikes! If you change your mind and want to sell her cheap I could use a donor for my project! ;)

Anyone in So Cal have an RC51 fuel tank I could borrow for mock up purposes?

kostritzer

I'll definitely try to weigh the arm the next time I have it off. Actually, I need to remove it soon to mill the old lugs off so we can take measurements for the new lug. Wish I had the old VFR swingarm to weigh for comparison!

I'm happy to weigh the original Gen5 swingarm, as soon as it comes out. To do this properly, it'd be worth weighing the whole assembly; wheel, axle, caliper, etc - not just swingarm. I can do this with the original stuff and will post it once I've bought a damn bathroom scale!

I've thought of a possible solution for the exhaust, I could run a 2x 2-1 system. The idea came to me while I was watching MotoGP! All the V4's run the same system, I'm sure for packaging reasons as well. Problem is, I don't know much (yet) about exhaust design, with respect to runner lengths and diameters, etc. I can use diameters from the standard exhaust as a starting point (obviously lengths will change) and go from there...

Positives: Solves packaging problems, Nobody (outside of MotoGP) has one, and most importantly, It'll look cool!

Negatives; trying to prevent torque dips will be harder, and obviously the fab-work (but that's arguably a positive anyway!)

Anyone know anything about exhaust design, or could direct me to some decent texts???

Someone get ahold of CornerCarver, I believe he's got an '01 swingarm laying around to weigh.

kostritzer

Anyone in So Cal have an RC51 fuel tank I could borrow for mock up purposes?

Have you seen one? The airbox is so massive that they had to extend the lower back portion of the tank under the seat a little bit in order to get some more fuel in there.

Love to loan you mine, but cross country shipping would be a bit inconvenient. Try Speedzilla Forum for a loaner?

btec116

kostritzer

I'll definitely try to weigh the arm the next time I have it off. Actually, I need to remove it soon to mill the old lugs off so we can take measurements for the new lug. Wish I had the old VFR swingarm to weigh for comparison!

I'm happy to weigh the original Gen5 swingarm, as soon as it comes out. To do this properly, it'd be worth weighing the whole assembly; wheel, axle, caliper, etc - not just swingarm. I can do this with the original stuff and will post it once I've bought a damn bathroom scale!

I've thought of a possible solution for the exhaust, I could run a 2x 2-1 system. The idea came to me while I was watching MotoGP! All the V4's run the same system, I'm sure for packaging reasons as well. Problem is, I don't know much (yet) about exhaust design, with respect to runner lengths and diameters, etc. I can use diameters from the standard exhaust as a starting point (obviously lengths will change) and go from there...

Positives: Solves packaging problems, Nobody (outside of MotoGP) has one, and most importantly, It'll look cool!

Negatives; trying to prevent torque dips will be harder, and obviously the fab-work (but that's arguably a positive anyway!)

Anyone know anything about exhaust design, or could direct me to some decent texts???

Actually, member HondaRV4 did just that with his exhaust on his 4th gen track bike. His bike is a big inspiration for this one, so much so that I bought a 4th gen last weekend.... Now I've got a bit of a dilemma! 4th or 5th? What to do, what to do!?!?!? Oh, I just love creating problems for myself....

KPerham

kostritzer

Anyone in So Cal have an RC51 fuel tank I could borrow for mock up purposes?

Have you seen one? The airbox is so massive that they had to extend the lower back portion of the tank under the seat a little bit in order to get some more fuel in there.

Love to loan you mine, but cross country shipping would be a bit inconvenient. Try Speedzilla Forum for a loaner?

Yes, I forgot about that. I really like the shape of the tank, I think it would look good with the 5th gen frame. Maybe a "dummy" RC51 tank with a fuel cell underneath would be the way to go.

kostritzer

Yes, I forgot about that. I really like the shape of the tank, I think it would look good with the 5th gen frame. Maybe a "dummy" RC51 tank with a fuel cell underneath would be the way to go.

I've always thought about incorporating one into a subframe. While you're at it, if you have access to aluminium welding, why don't you give it a go? You have a fuel pump anyway, so you can put fuel wherever you want it... What's the driver for the tank anyway? Looks? RC51's do look damn nice...

btec116

kostritzer

Yes, I forgot about that. I really like the shape of the tank, I think it would look good with the 5th gen frame. Maybe a "dummy" RC51 tank with a fuel cell underneath would be the way to go.

I've always thought about incorporating one into a subframe. While you're at it, if you have access to aluminium welding, why don't you give it a go? You have a fuel pump anyway, so you can put fuel wherever you want it... What's the driver for the tank anyway? Looks? RC51's do look damn nice...

Yes, looks were my main motivation for the 51 tank. Tyga makes a carbon tank cover for the RVF400, that would probably work pretty well too. Unfortunately this 4th gen is occupying my mind more than the 5th at the moment. Its a complete running bike, so it can be made into a track bike quite quickly, and I hate missing track days when the weather is so nice!

NEWS!

I've been looking for forks for a while, now I got two sets!

1 set off an '05 CBR1000RR, the other off a GSXR1000 K7. Thanks Fleabay! I bid on both thinking I might get one if lucky, and luck saw the humor in sending both my way! Considering I could have spent more than what they cost on a signle set of CBR954 forks from a wrecker I feel I'm doing well!

Some specs:

ORIGIN CBR1000RR5 GSXR1000K7

Fork Free length 325 350

Upper clamp 50 50

Lower clamp 54 56

axle diameter 25 25

caliper mounts 108 108

I will need to find a matching stem and triple clamps, obviously 954 or early 1000RR would be an easy option here. And I'm not sure of the stem length requirements. Some advantages of the K7 forks (besides that they look awesome!) is that they have much longer clamp areas than the CBR forks, and they also don't narrow down between upper and lower clamp areas. This gives more adjustment range to play with fork angles and more room for clipons. Also I'm very happy about the caliper mounts, I bought a set of Tokico Radials a while back and looks like they'll fit either fork without problem. I'll post some photos soon!

I also have the chance to get a CBR1000RR5 swingarm with shock and linkages for cheap. I'm still considering this for the rear headers and a 4-2-1 exhaust option. but it'd be more work with the swingarm pivot. Hmmm, too many options!

Question on WHEELS (anyone with some knowledge on this?)

I love the six-spoke standard front wheel. Has anyone tried to find a bearing with outer-race to fit the VFR wheel and inner race to clear a 25mm front axle? This would make me very happy! I'll have a query-around with some bearing places but if someone has the answer in the meantime, you could save us some time!

That's all for now!

Question on WHEELS (anyone with some knowledge on this?)

I love the six-spoke standard front wheel. Has anyone tried to find a bearing with outer-race to fit the VFR wheel and inner race to clear a 25mm front axle? This would make me very happy! I'll have a query-around with some bearing places but if someone has the answer in the meantime, you could save us some time!

That's all for now!

That front wheel is a boat anchor! get rid of it!

I'm not a big fan of three spokes, but they are a helluva lot lighter. I'm sure you could fit an SP2 front wheel which I'm partial to. I know I know, opinions are like assholes...

Use the gixxer forks because they Are longer. You'll need it!

Veefer800Canuck

Use the gixxer forks because they Are longer. You'll need it!

I'm going to run 07-08 CBR600RR forks on the 4th gen. They're quite short! 700mm if I remember correctly.

Hope your front tire doesn't hit the cylinder head or rad!

Veefer800Canuck

Hope your front tire doesn't hit the cylinder head or rad!

Radiator maybe, cylinder head I doubt it. I can always curve or relocate the radiator for more clearance. The way the bike sits at the moment with tons of free sag, its already at about the same fork length as the CBR600RR forks, plus the top triple is the "gull" design, so I get back a few mm's with that.

Cheers for the feedback!

Yeah, I was worried the 6-spoke front is a waste of time. Dammit, I just can't get past the fact that 3-spoke wheels are about as exciting as watching paint dry! But you're right, I'll be on the hunt for something a bit more weight-weary... Has anyone ever weighed wheels?

The GSXR forks have one problem; they're 56mm, which means I need a GSXR1000 K7 lower triple, which means that's a 28mm offset (which I'd like to keep higher rather than lower) and also means I can't run the Honda top-triple, which'd be good for the Gullwing top and extra room. Basically if I use the K7 forks I'm stuck with K7 tripleclamps and I haven't figured out how to make them work yet... Does anyone know of anything that uses 56mm lower clamp mounts??

One more data fact - I weighed the CBR954 swingarm, and it came in at 5.8kg. That's pretty good in my book! That, along with wheels, brakes, etc, should add up to something fairly significant! When I start pulling off components I'll weigh everything off the VFR to compare.

btec116

Cheers for the feedback!

Yeah, I was worried the 6-spoke front is a waste of time. Dammit, I just can't get past the fact that 3-spoke wheels are about as exciting as watching paint dry! But you're right, I'll be on the hunt for something a bit more weight-weary... Has anyone ever weighed wheels?

The GSXR forks have one problem; they're 56mm, which means I need a GSXR1000 K7 lower triple, which means that's a 28mm offset (which I'd like to keep higher rather than lower) and also means I can't run the Honda top-triple, which'd be good for the Gullwing top and extra room. Basically if I use the K7 forks I'm stuck with K7 tripleclamps and I haven't figured out how to make them work yet... Does anyone know of anything that uses 56mm lower clamp mounts??

One more data fact - I weighed the CBR954 swingarm, and it came in at 5.8kg. That's pretty good in my book! That, along with wheels, brakes, etc, should add up to something fairly significant! When I start pulling off components I'll weigh everything off the VFR to compare.

Can't help you with the forks, other than suggesting that you bore the lower triples from 54-56mm. As for the front wheel, how about an SP1 front? They're a six spoke design, and they have to weight less than a VFR wheel, if not as light as the SP2 5 spoker.

kostritzer

Can't help you with the forks, other than suggesting that you bore the lower triples from 54-56mm. As for the front wheel, how about an SP1 front? They're a six spoke design, and they have to weight less than a VFR wheel, if not as light as the SP2 5 spoker.

Bore out triple clamps? Does anyone do that? It could work, only need 1mm off the wall... On that line of thinking, could also turn down the forks...

On the SP1 wheels, I've been wondering if there is much of a weight difference between them and the SP2 wheels... Have you ever weighed them? Also do they use the same axles? CBR954 and 1000RR's all seem to run 25mm rear axles, and going off the forks, the front axle is 25mm on both the GSXR and CBR. This really opens up alot of wheel options...

So what's the deal now, are you going Gen 4 or 5??

Can I just say: Longer stroke, Complete ground-up redesigned engine (Gen-4 is based on RC30, Gen-5 is RC45), FI, and nobody's done one (yet...) :fing02:

btec116

1 set off an '05 CBR1000RR, the other off a GSXR1000 K7.

Some specs:

ORIGIN CBR1000RR5 GSXR1000K7

Fork Free length 325 350

Upper clamp 50 50

Lower clamp 54 56

I'm not sure what numbers your talking about as fork free length, but Fork lengths specs are:

05 CBR 1k- 717mm

GSXR 1k K7 - 720mm

Ref. RC51 - 755mm

BTW GSXR 1k forks from K3, K4, K5 & K6 all have 54mm lower clamp Dia. and K3/K4 have 32mm offset and K5/K6 have 30mm offset(triple clamp).

K7 GSXR 750 forks I'm pretty sure are 54mm (bottom clamp)also and are 735mm long.

btec116

kostritzer

Can't help you with the forks, other than suggesting that you bore the lower triples from 54-56mm. As for the front wheel, how about an SP1 front? They're a six spoke design, and they have to weight less than a VFR wheel, if not as light as the SP2 5 spoker.

Bore out triple clamps? Does anyone do that? It could work, only need 1mm off the wall... On that line of thinking, could also turn down the forks...

On the SP1 wheels, I've been wondering if there is much of a weight difference between them and the SP2 wheels... Have you ever weighed them? Also do they use the same axles? CBR954 and 1000RR's all seem to run 25mm rear axles, and going off the forks, the front axle is 25mm on both the GSXR and CBR. This really opens up alot of wheel options...

So what's the deal now, are you going Gen 4 or 5??

Can I just say: Longer stroke, Complete ground-up redesigned engine (Gen-4 is based on RC30, Gen-5 is RC45), FI, and nobody's done one (yet...) :fing02:

Well, I don't know for certainty that the SP2 wheel is lighter, just one of the things I've read online.

I know SP2 wheels have been installed on bikes with a 25mm front axle, its a matter of changing the bearings and spacers apparently. I know its definitely been done to early 1000RR's.

Looks like I'm going 4th gen for now. I currently have no running bikes, track or otherwise, and I found a cheap running 4th gen that I can get track ready much sooner than the 5th. Ideally I'd have a 4th gen with a 5th gen engine in it, as I like the overall design of the 4th gen frame a little more, and the 5th gen engine is pretty frackin' magical.

I just sold my NC30 recently, and the 4th gen is kinda like a +1 size NC30 in many ways. Working on it seems very familiar!

In the meantime I'll keep an eye on your project, and maybe pick up again on the 5th gen once I get the 4th gen squared away... I think I've typed "gen" enough now to last me the rest of my life.

:biggrin:

I might call you GenGEn from here on.

Just to confuse you even more while you're nice and vulnerable;

A recent Performance Bikes magazine had a reader bike snippet of someone who squeezed a Gen4 engine in an NC30 frame. The results were claimed to be pretty damn spectacular...

btec116

:biggrin:

I might call you GenGEn from here on.

Just to confuse you even more while you're nice and vulnerable;

A recent Performance Bikes magazine had a reader bike snippet of someone who squeezed a Gen4 engine in an NC30 frame. The results were claimed to be pretty damn spectacular...

Ha Ha,

Yeah, I've seen the NC30/RC36 hybrid. I actually frequent the PB mag forums and 400greybike nearly as much as I do this forum!

I just received an NC30 swingarm, I'm going to try to fit the hub to the 750. If I had a frame I'd be tempted to stuff an RC46 motor in it! (notice how I've managed to avoid using that three letter abbreviation? :biggrin: ).

vguy

I've been searching for a track bike for a few months. CBR600, SV650, Ninja 650R, even a 2008+ Ninja 250R. Meanwhile, I have a perfectly good 5th gen VFR800 sitting in my garage gathering dust. It's stock with the exception of a Jardine slip-on and a Power Commander. I can only imagine how good it would sound (to me) charging down the main straight at Willow Springs. Thanks to this thread I am inspired to get this fat-boy 800 on a diet with some suspension mods and "run what I got." I'll be following the advise, ideas and goings-on here. Thanks.

Something like this, maybe:

[image: VFR-track3-1.jpg]

Do you have any specifics on this bike? Love the exhaust, and specially the tail section.

novaman64

Something like this, maybe:

[image: VFR-track3-1.jpg]

Do you have any specifics on this bike? Love the exhaust, and specially the tail section.

That is a photoshopped version of Toro1's bike. The exhaust and front end are real, the tailsection is not.

I'll put a link in here in a minute when I find it.....

Heer 'y are:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/56404-my-98-gets-some-new-suspenders/page__p__667682#entry667682

Hmmm, all quiet on the Trackbike-front?

I've bought up a few more ebay parts...

So time to take a poll- I can either go with a GSXR1000 K7 or CBR1000 RR5 front end. The decision will dictate front wheel selection, as the disc spacing will be different, and I don't like the idea of spacing out discs... Does anyone know of any measurements on disc-spacing? I'm thinking of wheel options... CBR fork/triples assembled place the discs at around 120mm apart (axial), my VFR discs are 135. I haven't measured the GSXR spacing, but the triples are narrower than the CBR by about 7mm. 25mm front spindle gives plenty of wheel options and disc size spacing is no big deal with radial calipers. So the critical dimension becomes disc spacing.

Other decision makers are fork offsets - CBR is 30mm, GSXR is 28, The GSXR has considerably stiffer forks (56mm vs 54mm), at the moment I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. Because As we all undoubtedly know, Mr. Stoner's front-end chatter issues a few years' ago were caused by forks that were too stiff, and since his Desmosedici GP-09 was essentially a sub-standard V4 derivative of the RC46, I don't want to plague my otherwise perfect riding experience with overly-stiff forks.

OK, seriously though, not much else going on. Although, I am heading to my first (of hopefully many) trackdays in two weeks! Keen!

btec116

Hmmm, all quiet on the Trackbike-front?

I've bought up a few more ebay parts...

So time to take a poll- I can either go with a GSXR1000 K7 or CBR1000 RR5 front end. The decision will dictate front wheel selection, as the disc spacing will be different, and I don't like the idea of spacing out discs... Does anyone know of any measurements on disc-spacing? I'm thinking of wheel options... CBR fork/triples assembled place the discs at around 120mm apart (axial), my VFR discs are 135. I haven't measured the GSXR spacing, but the triples are narrower than the CBR by about 7mm. 25mm front spindle gives plenty of wheel options and disc size spacing is no big deal with radial calipers. So the critical dimension becomes disc spacing.

Other decision makers are fork offsets - CBR is 30mm, GSXR is 28, The GSXR has considerably stiffer forks (56mm vs 54mm), at the moment I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. Because As we all undoubtedly know, Mr. Stoner's front-end chatter issues a few years' ago were caused by forks that were too stiff, and since his Desmosedici GP-09 was essentially a sub-standard V4 derivative of the RC46, I don't want to plague my otherwise perfect riding experience with overly-stiff forks.

OK, seriously though, not much else going on. Although, I am heading to my first (of hopefully many) trackdays in two weeks! Keen!

If you are building a 250+ hp V4 race bike, then I wouldn't use either! :laughing6-hehe:

On the other hand, my personal preferences are keeping Honda bits on a Honda! :cool: That's just me, though...

Jokes aside, things have been a bit slower than planned but the new news is I have the GSXR forks in the frame!

So that's GSXR1000 K7 forks, running 50mm upper and 56mm lower triples and 28mm offset.

The lower steering stem bearing is identical to the Honda (ID/OD = 30/55mm), but the upper was a real PITA - stem is 30mm and frame is 47mm. There is one bearing which is a non-standard size, it only comes as a taper roller bearing and is made by NSK but on special order only and at around £60-70 each after delivery. I found a replacement at 1/6 the cost from China, I'm not a huge fan of Chinese bearings but I'll be keeping a close eye on it.

As far as fitting the forks in the frame, once the bearings were sorted it was as if it were meant to be - the GSXR lower clamps needed no modification to fit the frame and even the lock stops were in (almost) the right place!

There was one other thing I noticed is that the stem is a few mm too long - which means the upper steering head bearing inner race lands a bit too low on the stem which means you can't tighten the stem nut as it runs out of thread. All this needs though is a spacer made up - about 2-3mm sets the stem nut at the right height with plenty of thread.

I'll have to post some pics soon.

Interestingly, I sourced a CBR600 '04 front wheel into which I've put CBR1000 bearings - and the wheel sits fine on the GSXR axle. As it was an ebay wheel I need to get some discs and check that the discs line up with the calipers, but on first measurement it seems about right.

So if anyone's interested in getting ANY modern GSXR forks into a VFR frame, I have all the bearing info you'll need to do it. Now I'm just wondering if anyone's actually interested in this... :)

btec116

So if anyone's interested in getting ANY modern GSXR forks into a VFR frame, I have all the bearing info you'll need to do it. Now I'm just wondering if anyone's actually interested in this... :)

Of course we're interested! First things first... let's have that bearing number, and your source. Second, how about starting a new thread dedicated to your bike?

SEBSPEED

btec116

So if anyone's interested in getting ANY modern GSXR forks into a VFR frame, I have all the bearing info you'll need to do it. Now I'm just wondering if anyone's actually interested in this... :)

Of course we're interested! First things first... let's have that bearing number, and your source. Second, how about starting a new thread dedicated to your bike?

With some updated photos!

Agreed, new thread + pics, that way I don't have to be reminded of my failure of a VFR800 track bike project and I can simultaneously live vicariously through yours!

SEBSPEED

btec116

So if anyone's interested in getting ANY modern GSXR forks into a VFR frame, I have all the bearing info you'll need to do it. Now I'm just wondering if anyone's actually interested in this... :)

Of course we're interested! First things first... let's have that bearing number, and your source. Second, how about starting a new thread dedicated to your bike?

For Sure!

I've got a set of K7 750 forks w/wheel, calipers and rotors all ready to go. I too figured that the lower tree bearing was the same as the Honda, but never tried to sorce a upper bearing yet.

So please post up!

BR

Baileyrock

SEBSPEED

btec116

So if anyone's interested in getting ANY modern GSXR forks into a VFR frame, I have all the bearing info you'll need to do it. Now I'm just wondering if anyone's actually interested in this... :)

Of course we're interested! First things first... let's have that bearing number, and your source. Second, how about starting a new thread dedicated to your bike?

For Sure!

I've got a set of K7 750 forks w/wheel, calipers and rotors all ready to go. I too figured that the lower tree bearing was the same as the Honda, but never tried to sorce a upper bearing yet.

So please post up!

BR

Your conversion was my first thought when he brought it up. :wink:

Hehe, cheers guys, glad to hear it! :rolleyes:

Hmmm, new thread? - Not sure there's enough here, progress has been way slower than I'd be proud of...

OK so the bearing you'll be after is an NSK HR32906J - it is a taper roller bearing of dimensions: ID: 30mm OD: 46mm and thickness: 12mm.

I think (based on the infallible Google) that SKF may make one as well, but I could never confirm this. I also tried searching based on a made-up version of Koyo's part numbers (should be something like KOYO SAC3047), I found a vague mention on a Russian internet site, there may be a Honda that uses a ball bearing version with these dimensions, but I could not get in touch with them and there was no sale listing, or proper part number available on the site (it just mentioned it as part of some kit). And that's as far as I got...

The deal with this bearing is it's not a standard size - meaning not only that nobody in the UK stocks it; the biggest and best bearing suppliers told me they could NOT get them even on request.

Anyway, so I tried tracking the original NSK product first and only found one place in Europe that had the proper NSK items in stock (a bearing shop in Poland - I still have their contact, if anyone wants it ask and I'll go dig it up). By the time they could get some to me it would have been over £60 - or around $100USD each. Since I couldn't part with that kinda cash for such a simple product (purely on principle) I decided to try a Chinese supplier.

Here's the group I used, they communicated well, and were very helpful and reliable. They sent me two bearings by DHL for about £30 including shipping (most of that went to DHL!). I think that's not too bad. They are also negotiable on price and give discounts for multiple units. If you send them by China Air Mail they work out super cheap, but bit of a guess wether you'll ever get them or not!

Sales department

http://www.cysbearing.com

http://cysbearing2009.en.made-in-china.com/

Chaoyang Shining Trading Co.,Ltd

Tel:+86-15524989084

Fax:+86-04213391068

Skype: chinesesunnyxv

MSN:chinesesunnyxv@yahoo.cn

Email:chinesesunnyxv@yahoo.cn

But a few warnings -

1. This is my first Chinese engineered purchase - so understandably I don't have enormous faith in the quality. They seem perfect but it's all down to the material quality, and sadly I can't judge that just by looking at (or sniffing) them. Time will tell - which will be a while the way this build's going. I'll report back when I have some tracktime.

2. The bearings have one flaw (in design), the angle between the rollers and steering axis is about 5-10 degrees steeper than for normal rollers. This means they will be able to carry less axial load (in the path of the steering axis) than a conventional tapered roller bearing designed for steering heads. This is down to the bearing design itself, partly I guess to get big enough roller diameters packaged in the little room between inner and outer races - so would be exactly the same on the NSK units.

Now my best engineering guess says that I can get away with it, because it is the upper bearing and carries close enough to bugger-all static load, just the tightening torque. The rest - for any dynamic load cases (i.e. when the bike's actually braking or cornering) almost all the load is passed radially - for which they should be awesome. But - this is also just my opinion, and subject to being blatantly wrong!

Anyway, keen for someone else to do it too - so get into it!

BaileyrockFor Sure! I've got a set of K7 750 forks w/wheel, calipers and rotors all ready to go. I too figured that the lower tree bearing was the same as the Honda, but never tried to sorce a upper bearing yet. So please post up! BR

Hey BR - another possibly easier option is to get a CBR stem and press it into the GSXR lower triple clamp.

Advantages:

The lower diameters are the same so stem would go in no probs,

That would allow use of original Honda bearings,

The stem length would be correct (I think?)

Disads:

Extra cost (or having required tooling) for pressing the stems,

Different dimensions between the GSXR upper triple clamp and Honda stem? Not sure, but I've actually got both in the garage, I'll measure up...

I thought my way'd be a bit more unusual and therefore fun!

What's the GSXR750 offset? If it's 30mm, with a Honda stem you could also simply put on a Fireblade or SP2 top triple clamp. I couldn't beacause mine runs a 28mm offset. But the fork tubes are the same dimension up top - both 50's.

Top shelf work Mr. Holmes.

btec116

BaileyrockFor Sure! I've got a set of K7 750 forks w/wheel, calipers and rotors all ready to go. I too figured that the lower tree bearing was the same as the Honda, but never tried to sorce a upper bearing yet. So please post up! BR

Hey BR - another possibly easier option is to get a CBR stem and press it into the GSXR lower triple clamp.

Advantages:

The lower diameters are the same so stem would go in no probs,

That would allow use of original Honda bearings,

The stem length would be correct (I think?)

Disads:

Extra cost (or having required tooling) for pressing the stems,

Different dimensions between the GSXR upper triple clamp and Honda stem? Not sure, but I've actually got both in the garage, I'll measure up...

I thought my way'd be a bit more unusual and therefore fun!

What's the GSXR750 offset? If it's 30mm, with a Honda stem you could also simply put on a Fireblade or SP2 top triple clamp. I couldn't beacause mine runs a 28mm offset. But the fork tubes are the same dimension up top - both 50's.

Thanks for all the leg work, I'll try to pick my project again this year.

I'll need to check specs for any answers on my part. :rolleyes:

Finally, here are some long overdue pics.

The front wheel is the original six-spoker, It's only been fitted for show!

I can't use this wheel as the discs sit about 5mm too far apart - at the moment they clear the forks but rub on the caliper housings. I have a spare CBR600 wheel I will also test-fit (I just need some discs for them first), I think that should place the discs in about the right location. But I need a set of RR discs first (ebay be kind to me!)

I've had some major engine issues - you can see it a bit in the background but the engine is colossally corroded... I've never had a bike so badly corroded before - looks like the previous owner used it all through winter/s (probably every one of them since 1998 by the look of things). EVERY single external engine part is scrap-metal. ALL exhaust studs are seized or lost, the starter motor terminal sheared off after I looked at it disapprovingly, the cooling system was an abomination, and so far about 85% of every bolt I've tried undoing have been seized. My favourites are steel-in-aluminium corrosion seizures; I swear it makes better joints than welding! It's so bad now it just makes me sick to even look at it... I've given up, and found a cheap CLEAN!!! 6th Gen engine on ebay and will strap it in. Once I plasma-cut the seized engine bolts out! Then I have a perfect running engine worth of parts to hack at if I break anything.

This puts me in a bit of a dilemma - I have a 6th Gen engine but don't want to lose my gear-drive! So I will see if it's possible to retrofit the gear drive into the 6th Gen. Has Anybody ever thought of this before? Seems a bit backwards, I know, but I was never a fan of chains, or the valve deactivation anyway...

That's all for tonight! More pics soon...

[image: post-22737-0-63986500-1327361028.jpg]

[image: post-22737-0-23021400-1327361047.jpg]

btec116

This puts me in a bit of a dilemma - I have a 6th Gen engine but don't want to lose my gear-drive! So I will see if it's possible to retrofit the gear drive into the 6th Gen. Has Anybody ever thought of this before? Seems a bit backwards, I know, but I was never a fan of chains, or the valve deactivation anyway...

5th gen gears in 6th gen? Not happening.......(well I suppose if you catch the kaldek virus anything is possible) And if you want to get the 6th engine to run, that's a whole nother bag of tricks with the wire harness and ECU.

Um -a request -- start a btec's bike build thread..

+1

And regarding my original project, if anyone in southern California would like a free high mileage 5th gen engine with a 6th gen frame attached to it let me know! Need to make some room in my tiny garage!

Dammit kostritzer, now you're just teasing!

OK, may re-consider the new post... :)

btec116

Dammit kostritzer, now you're just teasing!

OK, may re-consider the new post... :)

Thought you'd say that! Keep your eyes peeled, a fifth gen engine will turn up eventually. There's always a few of them for sale on the US ebay site if you're willing to pay the shipping. This one has 116K on it, so I don't think you'd want it as your permanent engine anyway!

Can't wait to see pics of the bike with the Fire Blade swing arm mocked up!

116k

Should just be about run in :-)

twoeyedbob

116k

Should just be about run in :-)

Apparently it still ran great at that mileage. Previous owner said it smoked a little on decel, so he yanked it and stuck a low mileage one in it. The bike had 180K on the chassis when I bought the engine from him.

There's a 5th gen engine listed on ebay (physical location local to me) with 30k complete with tranny for $300. Of course, it would cost another $300 to get it shipped out to you, being large and heavy and all.

I've got a similiar inspiration as you guys here, in taking a fat VFR and tricking it out and slimming it down. My main point of difficulty is putting on a 08-11 CBR1000R tailsection/subframe as this is the style I like best. Given that, which generation or year do you think would be the easiest to do this one?

btec116

BaileyrockFor Sure! I've got a set of K7 750 forks w/wheel, calipers and rotors all ready to go. I too figured that the lower tree bearing was the same as the Honda, but never tried to sorce a upper bearing yet. So please post up! BR

Hey BR - another possibly easier option is to get a CBR stem and press it into the GSXR lower triple clamp.

Advantages:

The lower diameters are the same so stem would go in no probs,

That would allow use of original Honda bearings,

The stem length would be correct (I think?)

Disads:

Extra cost (or having required tooling) for pressing the stems,

Different dimensions between the GSXR upper triple clamp and Honda stem? Not sure, but I've actually got both in the garage, I'll measure up...

I thought my way'd be a bit more unusual and therefore fun!

What's the GSXR750 offset? If it's 30mm, with a Honda stem you could also simply put on a Fireblade or SP2 top triple clamp. I couldn't beacause mine runs a 28mm offset. But the fork tubes are the same dimension up top - both 50's.

I think there 30mm offset. Not done any work on them yet! :rolleyes:

Baileyrock

I think there 30mm offset. Not done any work on them yet! :rolleyes:

Kevin, send me your gixxer lower tree and a spare VFR lower, I can swap the stems for you.

SEBSPEED

Baileyrock

I think there 30mm offset. Not done any work on them yet! :rolleyes:

Kevin, send me your gixxer lower tree and a spare VFR lower, I can swap the stems for you.

Thanks Seb!

I'm still not sure how that helps or what I would need to make it work?

Installing the Honda stem allows the use of Honda bearings, but what upper triple? It would have to match offset(30mm?) and fork centers(207mm?) of the GSXR lower and if it's the 207 I think it is no Honda uses that spec.

BR

Refresh my memory - is the GSXR stem a larger diameter up top than the VFR stem?

If so, we can press the VFR (or any modern Honda steering stem) into the GSXR lower, then make a bushing to fill the gap at the upper triple stem hole.

If the GSXR stem is smaller, you simply drill out the hole in that upper to fit the Honda stem.

Presuming the lower stem diameter is the same, they should be fairly easy to swap by pressing out/in. The length would be set while pressing so the upper threads are in the correct location, then the Honda bearings can be used and the only outliers are: 1. the size of the top of the gixxer stem & 2. the depth of press of the Honda stem in the gixxer lower.

If you send one of each lower (complete) I can figure out where to set the Honda stem. If you send just a stem, I'll have to do some figuring as I don't think I have a complete Honda lower right now with the correct length stem installed.

SEBSPEED

Refresh my memory - is the GSXR stem a larger diameter up top than the VFR stem?

Yes the GSXR upper is larger a 30-55-17 vs the Honda's 26-47-15.

What about the fork tube centers of 207mm?

Or I just need a 30-47-15/17 upper bearing.

You said you have the whole front end, so if we put the VFR stem in the GSXR lower triple at the correct height, you can then use Honda bearings along with a custom spacer and everything else from the GSXR. Wheel, fender, brakes, everything. That's what you wanted, right?

GSXR upper triple too???

Yup

Gents,

I've been away for a while... I owe you some pics, will try upload in a few days :)

If it's not too late, DON'T bother with the GSXR/CBR stem swap, I tried exactly this a few weeks ago. Sadly the GSXR stem is 1mm!!!! larger than the CBR stem. How infuriating! I learnt this by pressing out the stems out of the GSXR1000 K8 and 2006 CBR1000 lower triple clamps and accepting a dismal defeat.

The Honda's (all the ones I've seen) run the 30mm diameter through the bearing inner race down into the triple clamp and use a flange to locate the stem at the correct height in the lower triple clamp.

Suzuki use a slight overbore at 31mm, and a groove and spring-clip at the base of the stem to achieve the same. Sorry, I never thought to take photos. This way they save having to do the finer surface machining required at the bearing race from extending into the triple clamp seating surface. Unfortunately really annoying for us though.

It's especially misleading, because it's hard to get the verniers up to the base of the Suzuki stem, and it looks near-enough 30mm that you assume it'll have the same diameters.

I always knew Suzukis were cheaper on build-quality than Hondas...

Quick update, bike is on it's wheels, the wheels have changed (surprise), rear swingarm is swinging in it's final resting place :)

main challenges now:

Sorting out the rear shock, linkages and lower link mounting

Sorting out front disc/caliper spacing

Subframe

Exhaust (planned in head, and numbers crunched, yet to crack out the welder!)

Welcome woolysocks .....

btec116

Updates:

Went back to Suzuki forks - the offset needed to make the CBR forks work with the Aprilia discs was too much. The Suzuki triples are narrower and bring the (radial) calipers almost perfectly in-line with the Aprilia wheel and discs. Plus the black DLC-coated inners look mega!

[image: attachicon.gif]29092012475.jpg

Rear disc (Aprilia) is on the wheel, and is almost right. The disc and bolts foul the standard 954 caliper mount, but not by much. I'll have 2mm skimmed off the outside of the mount and probabl make a 2mm wider rear wheel spacer, effectively moving the disc into the centre of the caliper mount bracket. It'll be close, but will work. Need to make another 2mm spacer for the other side to get the chain carrier to clear the swingarm, but no major drama.

[image: attachicon.gif]29092012468.jpg

They're baby-steps, but I'm happy, I'll have a full solution for wheels and brakes very soon. Then if I have the swingarm bracket sorted it'll be time to move onto some more interesting things like exhaust!

Bumping and old thread to see if btec116 was able to get that 954 swingarm to work with the 6th gen lower cushion... all vital info for my track bike project.

Bike looked like it could be AWESOME in the last photos!

:lurk:

vguy

I've been searching for a track bike for a few months. CBR600, SV650, Ninja 650R, even a 2008+ Ninja 250R. Meanwhile, I have a perfectly good 5th gen VFR800 sitting in my garage gathering dust. It's stock with the exception of a Jardine slip-on and a Power Commander. I can only imagine how good it would sound (to me) charging down the main straight at Willow Springs. Thanks to this thread I am inspired to get this fat-boy 800 on a diet with some suspension mods and "run what I got." I'll be following the advise, ideas and goings-on here. Thanks.

Something like this, maybe:

[image: VFR-track3-1.jpg]

^^ That, would make one helluva track bike . . . it's Toro1's supercharged 5th gen. It looks to have been Photoshopped, as the color is wrong, the black patch was added along the bottom of the tank - and someone edited out part of the tail section. Here's the original photo . . .

More photos here

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/gallery/album/5097-front-end-swap/?st=40

Cogswell

^^ That, would make one helluva track bike . . . it's Toro1's supercharged 5th gen. It looks to have been Photoshopped, as the color is wrong, the black patch was added along the bottom of the tank - and someone edited out part of the tail section. Here's the original photo . . .

More photos here

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/gallery/album/5097-front-end-swap/?st=40

That's clean AF! LOVE the black frame.

Hi there, just thought I'd revive this thread as it didn't seem to come to a conclusion.

I've managed to graft a CBR1000RR swinging arm (very much the same as the 929/954 setup) onto an RC46 as pictured.

I've not had a chance to run it for any distance but it does run and ride. I will be getting it road ready in the coming months.

[image: IMAG3770.jpg]

[image: IMAG3762.jpg]

[image: 2016_15_07_IMAG3626.jpg]

Has it lost any weight with the conversion?

I'm more curious about the linkage!

Ciao,

Lint, 2016-04-16 at 6:21 AM

vguy, 2011-06-05 at 2:49 AM

I've been searching for a track bike for a few months. CBR600, SV650, Ninja 650R, even a 2008+ Ninja 250R. Meanwhile, I have a perfectly good 5th gen VFR800 sitting in my garage gathering dust. It's stock with the exception of a Jardine slip-on and a Power Commander. I can only imagine how good it would sound (to me) charging down the main straight at Willow Springs. Thanks to this thread I am inspired to get this fat-boy 800 on a diet with some suspension mods and "run what I got." I'll be following the advise, ideas and goings-on here. Thanks.

Something like this, maybe:

[image: VFR-track3-1.jpg]

What tail is on that fifth gen?

A photoshoped original tail.

[image: bike_normal.jpg]

Rather you than me to ride that. If yoy intend to keep that setup for the dogbone links, then please use steel or SS for those adaptor brackets, that alloy will not survive long. Alternately either biy or make some proper length dogbones.

I have a V4 track project in the works.  Its called Project "Buy an Aprilia RSV4"  :goofy:

The last VFR project for my 5.5 was difficult enough, I don't even want to think about trying to increase the power and lower the weight of a VFR, regardless of generation.

But pass the popcorn I always love watching these!

I'm unimpressed, you seem to throw cash at your bikes with no accounting for taste and like bling more than anything else so here you are.

[image: IMAG0172.jpg]

[image: IMAG0177.jpg]