Change of oil weight

Hi everyone. First post here ever (cheers going off in my head).  Being a little neurotic, but I just purchased a '98 with 24,000 miles on the clock and it is in good to pretty good condition.  The gentleman I bought it from said he had been putting 10W 40 in it during his tenure with it (he was the third owner..first owner, Honda mechanic, second owner, older lady who didn't ride often).  I decided that this was going to be my commuter for years to come, as I am an educator who drives 57 miles each way to my university.  After reading too many of these posts and wrestling with all of the opinions, I decided I was going full synthetic from here on out.  So, today I performed my first VFR oil transfusion with Rotella T6, 5W 40.  I haven't ridden it again yet because I'm waiting for the air filter to dry from its cleaning and applying its oil tomorrow.  I live in Florida and, as I understand, with the weather being hot as a blacksmith's balls, that this oil weight should be fine.  I would appreciate any input I could get on this topic because there wasn't much in the way of history on this bike.
Thanks,
ISENHOUR

Attached Images

• [image: 2.HONDAVFR98.jpg]

First of all, welcome.  Good pic.  I use the same set up in both of mine (99 / 08) - washable air filter and Rotella 5W-40 with good results.

 ISENHOUR, on 20 June 2011 - 07:50 PM, said:

I live in Florida and, as I understand, with the weather being hot as a blacksmith's balls, that this oil weight should be fine.

10w40 is the recommended oil from Honda and since I live in Australia, we also get super hot days (well over 110F in heavy traffic sometimes).   My bike has had a constant diet of 10w40 its entire life and at 87,000 miles puts out as much power as a new bike.

Running a 5w40 won't hurt it - the 5w just refers to how the oil behaves when cold.  In other words, this oil behaves like an SAE 5 oil would at the same cold temperature.  It means it's better at cold startup, but since you live in Florida you don't need to go down to a 5w40, a 10w40 will do you just fine.

Welcome to the wonderful world of VFRD!!!  I too use mine for a 50 mile commute but I teach at a lowly Community College out side of Nashville LOL.

You will not regret your decision. BTW I made good friends with the campus police and they let me park where I can keep an eye on my red baby.

I ran a 5w40 full synthetic in my 6th gen for a while (Castrol) and didnt like it at all, the geartrain was noisier, the engine knocked on startup and the gearchange got very clunky after just 1500Kms so I changed back to the 10w40 semi I was using before and all those issues disappeared.

Hola and welcome to the board.

I've used shells t6 5w40 with decent results but my tranny got notchy around 800 miles. Also, my clutch was starting to chatter ever so slightly
at the same mileage.  I've read that this oil will shear a bit faster than comparable 10 or 15w-40 oils.  My first two oil changes on my new to
me 5th gen had the same results with oil changes done at 1000 miles.

I've since switched to this.
My link

I have 1100 miles on my current oil change with this oil and all is good.  My tranny and clutch seem to like it better.  

You may have different results with the t6 but I'll never run it again in my low mileage 1999.

Welcome and i have run the same oil for 20,000 miles  no problem.

 Muff, on 20 June 2011 - 08:12 PM, said:

Welcome to the wonderful world of VFRD!!!  I too use mine for a 50 mile commute but I teach at a lowly Community College out side of Nashville LOL.

You will not regret your decision. BTW I made good friends with the campus police and they let me park where I can keep an eye on my red baby.
Lucky you.  We have to pay the parking gestapo a yearly fee that might not be even close to your building!  Got any openings in Sculpture up there?!

 dogman, on 20 June 2011 - 08:17 PM, said:

I ran a 5w40 full synthetic in my 6th gen for a while (Castrol) and didnt like it at all, the geartrain was noisier, the engine knocked on startup and the gearchange got very clunky after just 1500Kms so I changed back to the 10w40 semi I was using before and all those issues disappeared.
So, did that take care of the noise and clunkiness?

 ISENHOUR, on 20 June 2011 - 08:31 PM, said:

 dogman, on 20 June 2011 - 08:17 PM, said:

I ran a 5w40 full synthetic in my 6th gen for a while (Castrol) and didnt like it at all, the geartrain was noisier, the engine knocked on startup and the gearchange got very clunky after just 1500Kms so I changed back to the 10w40 semi I was using before and all those issues disappeared.
So, did that take care of the noise and clunkiness?
Oh, sorry, you did answer that in your reply. Cheers.

The must be the new faculty lounge, welcome aboard. VFRs make great bikes for intelligent folks with no money so college faculty seem to gravitate to them. :comp13:


You're going to get a lot of opinions. My advice is to run what you have in the bike for 2 -3k, switch to something else do another 2-3K and  repeat this until you find something that feels right to you. I did and settled on Rotella T6. You may love it, or not. Regardless, it's not going to do anything bad to the engine.


Good luck. Sculpture, eh?

Surprised to see I am the first to recommend Mobil-1 full synthetic. It's been a few years since I left my 6th Gen to another owner but here's what i remember.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Rotella, I just preffered the Mobil, I got ti at walmart a gallon at a time when it's on sale for $16 bucks or so.

I also used the compatible car oil filter, do a search for a compatibility list, it's out there somewhere, and save yourself a few bucks on the Honda filter which is no better that other ones out there.

Hope I was helpful.

Welcome Bro!!  Amsoil full synth 10w 40.  Bought mine with just under 24k; now it has just under 69k.  Purchased two years ago next month, and I, too, do a 100 mile round trip commute!!

:lurk: oil thread...

Rotella T6 Synthetic is good stuff. Changed from Honda GN4 Pro after reading quite a bit about Rotella Syn's durability here and on bobistheoilguy.com. Its hard stuff to beat. Made the shifting on my 4th gen a bit touchy, but I'm accustomed to it now. It's a good synthetic IMO.

Isenhour, here's a great link with data on oil filters for our bikes.

http://motorcycleinf...FilterXRef.html

Welcome to the forum.

May I direct your attention here:

http://www.vfrdiscus...ial-oil-thread/

If there is only thing a owner has control over it is the viscosity of
their oil... the trouble with oil is its too thick at room temp and
just right at operating temps... that is why Shell Rotella T6 5W-40
provides improved low temperature flow compared to a 15W-40 grade...

As you can see Rotella 15w40 has a viscosity of 120 at 104ºF and a
Viscosity of 15.5 at 212ºF that means the oil is too thick during
start up to lubricate your engine properly and at 212ºF the operating
temp the viscosity is 15.5... which is fine but Honda designed the
engine to run at a viscosity of 10 at 212ºF... a better choice would
be Shell Rotella 10W30 because as you can see 10w30 has a viscosity of
83 which is still too thick to flow and lubricate your engine properly but it
is better than a viscosity of 120... and at the operating temp of 212º
the viscosity is 12 which is closer to Honda's design goal of 10...

Shell Rotella oils run very slow why just compare the difference in
viscosity with the same weight Mobil 1 synthetic oils...

Quote Shell Rotella T 15W40 synthetic oil...

At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 120

At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 15.5


Quote Shell Rotella T 10W30 synthetic oil...

At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 83

At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 12.1


Quote Mobil 1 0 30 synthetic oil...

At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 56.7

At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 10.3


Quote Mobil 1 0 40 synthetic oil...

At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 80

At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 14


Quote Mobil 1 15 50 synthetic oil...

At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 125

At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 17.4

Just make sure it's got oil in it and that it's not cage oil... make sure it's a motorcycle oil for oil-bathed clutches... 10W40, 5W40... I used to use a 15W50 (very hot climate) and no drama ever whatsoever... currently use the cheapest Kmart scooter oil that meets the Specs as per the Service Manual. You  will see reference to a couple of codes or specifications

For the VFR800's I find the following minimium standard speficied:

API: SF, SG or higher (= SH, SI...). API = American Petroleum Institute. I believe this has to do with how pure (mieral) or how synthetic an oil is and wheether it has additives to inhibit oxidation etc... SA would be pure Mineral.

JASO: MA (MA2 is also valid, don't worry about the 2) MA refers to oil-bathed clutches. MB is for dry clutches (like some Ducatis you see, or HEAR moreso). JASO = Japanese Automobile Standards Organization

The oil you buy must first meet these standards.

API: SF, SG or higher
JASO: MA (or MA2 is apparently fine although not mentioned in the manual)

Then according to your areas climate and ambient temperatures you may detour from the standard 10W40 a little.

 BusyLittleShop, on 21 June 2011 - 12:58 AM, said:

If there is only thing a owner has control over it is the viscosity of
their oil... the trouble with oil is its too thick at room temp and
just right at operating temps... that is why Shell Rotella T6 5W-40
provides improved low temperature flow compared to a 15W-40 grade...

/edit

Gotta love real world data!.  This is what makes oil threads a joy to read, it's like wiping your a$$ with silk! Please do post your oil's viscosities at operating temps, regardless of the brand.

So, not to muddle the issue but on the last change I used France's "Total Quartz 5000 15-40" which is made for both gas and diesel engines, I thought its particular set of properties was good, for this 35k mile engine and my constant 24c weather. -Plus it's priced the same as any other oil, or lower than specific, over-marketed brands.
Aside from having both ACEA A3/B3 cert's andAPI SL/CF, its viscosity indexes are;
110 @ 40c
14.3 @ 100c

Previous change; Repsol 20-50 moto-spec, at double the price. Other previous changes were done with Cepsa 15-40 and Castrol Tection 15-40 at 4-5k mile intervals.

Also, refer to the earier link posted, the "official oil thread"

Saludos!

 Auspa�ol, on 21 June 2011 - 04:26 AM, said:

API: SF, SG or higher (= SH, SI...). API = American Petroleum Institute. I believe this has to do with how pure (mieral) or how synthetic an oil is and wheether it has additives to inhibit oxidation etc... SA would be pure Mineral.
Negative...
The latest API service standard designation is SN for gasoline
automobile and light-truck engines. The SN standard refers to a group
of laboratory and engine tests, including the latest series for
control of high-temperature deposits. Current API service categories
include SN,SM, SL and SJ for gasoline engines. All previous service
designations are obsolete, although motorcycle oils commonly still use
the SF/SG obsolete standard.

I won't use a 5W/40 weight oil in the VFR due to the 5W.  It would be fine if it was only lubricating the motor, but since it's also used to lube the wet clutch it's too thin to handle the shearing action the clutch produces.  Especially in the heat of Florida.

Mark

 ki-speed, on 21 June 2011 - 07:47 PM, said:

I won't use a 5W/40 weight oil in the VFR due to the 5W.  It would be fine if it was only lubricating the motor, but since it's also used to lube the wet clutch it's too thin to handle the shearing action the clutch produces.  Especially in the heat of Florida.

Not sure if I agree with that mate - the 5W should only be relevant as a comparison against a single grade SAE 5 oil during cold starts.  The 40 is more what you should be considering for when the engine is at operating temp.

 vfrjim2002, on 20 June 2011 - 10:14 PM, said:

The must be the new faculty lounge, welcome aboard. VFRs make great bikes for intelligent folks with no money so college faculty seem to gravitate to them. :comp13:


You're going to get a lot of opinions. My advice is to run what you have in the bike for 2 -3k, switch to something else do another 2-3K and  repeat this until you find something that feels right to you. I did and settled on Rotella T6. You may love it, or not. Regardless, it's not going to do anything bad to the engine.


Good luck. Sculpture, eh?


Yeah, sculpture.  They'll pay you to do anything.  Thanks for the affirmation on the Rotella.  I used to live in San Antonio!  Don't know where you are in Texas, but I really enjoyed my two years in that city.
Take care and thanks.

 Hatter, on 20 June 2011 - 11:56 PM, said:

Isenhour, here's a great link with data on oil filters for our bikes.

http://motorcycleinf...FilterXRef.html
Thanks, very helpful.

 ki-speed, on 21 June 2011 - 07:47 PM, said:

I won't use a 5W/40 weight oil in the VFR due to the 5W.  It would be fine if it was only lubricating the motor, but since it's also used to lube the wet clutch it's too thin to handle the shearing action the clutch produces.  Especially in the heat of Florida.

Mark
Thanks Mark,
duly noted.
ISENHOUR

 ki-speed, on 21 June 2011 - 07:47 PM, said:

I won't use a 5W/40 weight oil in the VFR due to the 5W.  It would be fine if it was only lubricating the motor, but since it's also used to lube the wet clutch it's too thin to handle the shearing action the clutch produces.  Especially in the heat of Florida.

Mark



You didn't mention which brand but a typical 5W/40 has a viscosity of 89 at 104ºF and a viscosity of 14 at  212ºF... so how can that be too thin for your clutch??? besides gears will typically shear oil not the clutch action...

 BusyLittleShop, on 21 June 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

 Auspa�ol, on 21 June 2011 - 04:26 AM, said:

API: SF, SG or higher (= SH, SI...). API = American Petroleum Institute. I believe this has to do with how pure (mieral) or how synthetic an oil is and wheether it has additives to inhibit oxidation etc... SA would be pure Mineral.
Negative...
The latest API service standard designation is SN for gasoline
automobile and light-truck engines. The SN standard refers to a group
of laboratory and engine tests, including the latest series for
control of high-temperature deposits. Current API service categories
include SN,SM, SL and SJ for gasoline engines. All previous service
designations are obsolete, although motorcycle oils commonly still use
the SF/SG obsolete standard.


As you yourself say, you still find use of the SF/SG standard in real world practice... I still find these standards codes on the packaging so it's important to know what they mean and which one suites your bike. And besides, as the manual states, and seems to cater for updates in the nidustrial world: SF, SG or higher. So it's all covered right?

 Auspañol, on 22 June 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

As you yourself say, you still find use of the SF/SG standard in real world practice... I still find these standards codes on the packaging so it's important to know what they mean and which one suites your bike. And besides, as the manual states, and seems to cater for updates in the nidustrial world: SF, SG or higher. So it's all covered right?

"Higher" covers the latest SM specifications... SF and SG are obsolete
auto standards and have no motorcycle specific reference... All
specifications prior to SL are now obsolete and although suitable for
some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the
same level of performance or protection as the more up to date SL and
SM specifications.

Motorcyclist are spring loaded to the latest tire specification but treat the
latest oil specifications with suspicion... so lets review SPECIFICATIONS

Specifications are important as these indicate the performance of the
oil and whether they have met or passed the latest tests or whether
the formulation is effectively obsolete or out of date. There are two
specifications that you should look for on any oil bottle and these
are API (American Petroleum Institute) and ACEA (Association des
Constructeurs Europeens d'Automobiles) all good oils should contain
both of these and an understanding of what they mean is important.

API

This is the more basic as it is split (for passenger cars) into two
catagories. S = Petrol and C = Diesel, most oils carry both petrol (S)
and diesel © specifications.

The following table shows how up to date the specifications the oil
are:

PETROL

SG - Introduced 1989 has much more active dispersant to combat black
sludge.

SH - Introduced 1993 has same engine tests as SG, but includes
phosphorus limit 0.12%, together with control of foam, volatility and
shear stability.

SJ - Introduced 1996 has the same engine tests as SG/SH, but
phosphorus limit 0.10% together with variation on volatility limits

SL - Introduced 2001, all new engine tests reflective of modern engine
designs meeting current emissions standards

SM - Introduced November 2004, improved oxidation resistance, deposit
protection and wear protection, also better low temperature
performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.

The main advantage of the new specification over the obsolete
specification is its ability to lubricate at startup. SG and SM oils
have the same specifications at 104 F, 212 F and 302 F. It is the
startup viscosity characteristics that separate these oils... and its
unanimous among mechanics and engineers the most wear happens in an
our engines the during startup before warm... so it pays to use the
latest specification and before you select first gear warm the engine
up to operating temps...

I understand that if using oils with speficications higher than SF or SG, then it must state on the packaging that they are specific to motorcycles... you can't grab a car oil with SM on it and throw it in the bike due to the anti-friction components which will make your clutch slip. But from what I've read and heard, you CAN use a car oil if the API is SG or lower... �Does that sound right to you? (The fact they are obsolete aside please, because we still find these specifications on the packaging, so they may be technically obsolete, but they're still on the street).

 BusyLittleShop, on 22 June 2011 - 03:33 PM, said:

most wear happens in an
our engines the during startup before warm... so it pays to use the
latest specification and before you select first gear warm the engine
up to operating temps...

I don't think I'll ever be clear on whether to start and idle till warmup or start and drive away gently to warm the engine faster.   :comp13:

Seems like it would take a long time to let the engine warm up each time before you drive away.

You seem to know what you're talking about so is the above advice based on teardown inspections of engines operated under both methods or ???