I bought the wreck. Looks like I'm gonna have a bunch of spare parts soon.
Also: who wants to place bets that the fuel pump and coils I already had on order will magically fix the problems with my current bike? Oh well, at least it will be nice closure to the thread if that is the case!
The only bad thing about buying a repairable write off & registering is it will always be listed on WOR (Australia) as a repairable write off. I'm not up on Melb rules but before you couldn't fix them in NSW you had to have an extra inspection that cost $420 + blue slip (you can't register repairable write off in NSW anymore without special approval after you buy & fix bike which isn't guaranteed so you take the risk of blowing your money). If you want to save money in the short term the best option is do a motor swap.
I would put money on your problem not being mechanically related which is probably the essayist to diagnose, I would say you have an EFI problem but what is causing it can be a mine field to diagnose. When you get wreck I would firstly transfer ecu, wiring harness & sensors to your 02 just to see if it fixes the problem then if it does you can remove one component at a time until fault returns & bingo that's your problem & you can then sell off an operational bike.
Note: I would have changed plugs even if they look good just to be sure as I have has plugs that looked good that were faulty & changing them fixed the problem, if it doesn't fix the problem there not going to go to waste just shelve them till needed in future.
Fitted the replacement coils today. No change.
Somewhat concerned now this 2nd-hand ECU *is* dodgy!
I'm getting too good at pulling this bike apart. I decided to swap back the old ECU and wiring harness, and managed to get the whole job done in about three hours.
So with the 2002 ECU back in it, it runs a lot better. The misfire (actually more like wavering rpms) is still there but just less pronounced.
Also I checked up on registering a write-off and sure enough the VIV certificate costs $440. Hmmm, that makes dropping my plastics onto the wreck I bought a $1,000 proposition if you include registration. Since I have dads bike for a while I should just plan a motor swap.
kaldekI'm getting too good at pulling this bike apart. I decided to swap back the old ECU and wiring harness, and managed to get the whole job done in about three hours.
So with the 2002 ECU back in it, it runs a lot better. The misfire (actually more like wavering rpms) is still there but just less pronounced.
Also I checked up on registering a write-off and sure enough the VIV certificate costs $440. Hmmm, that makes dropping my plastics onto the wreck I bought a $1,000 proposition if you include registration. Since I have dads bike for a while I should just plan a motor swap.
And if you do the motor swap and have the same issue? What then? :huh:
SEBSPEEDAnd if you do the motor swap and have the same issue? What then? :huh:
Exactly. You've established that changing ECUs can make the engine run better or worse... what effect do you intend swapping the engine to have?
carlitos92SEBSPEEDAnd if you do the motor swap and have the same issue? What then? :huh:
Exactly. You've established that changing ECUs can make the engine run better or worse... what effect do you intend swapping the engine to have?
I'd be using the complete electrical system from another bike. I don't intend to use ANY of my current ECU/wiring harnesses and will pull the entire system across from the other bike. In essence, I am keeping nothing other than the frame from my 2002, unless I can't be buggered with the effort and just spend the money on having the wreck inspected. Either way, I will not be allowing any of the gremlins from my '02 to come across.
On another note, I'm getting the smell of burning hair/plastic from my ignition switch now.
I said something about ripples in a pond previously. Massive understatement.
Oh my Dog, that don't sound good.
Veefer800CanuckOh my Dog, that don't sound good.
Not to worry, I'm off to get the new bike tomorrow. The guy is also going to throw in some headlight assemblies for me. Wow...possibly a complete bike!
Assuming that your engine is fine, which it prolly is, and also assuming that the valvetrain is identical, ditto that, wouldn't it be easier to swap the harness?
Not stating. Just thinking out loud.
kaldekEither way, I will not be allowing any of the gremlins from my '02 to come across.
kaldekOn another note, I'm getting the smell of burning hair/plastic from my ignition switch now.
Sounds like one of your little gremlins might be running around with his hair on fire. :biggrin:
Sorry, mate. Good luck.
Good news! I found the source of the burning smell!
Bad news! I'm a dickhead!
[image: gallery_380_3610_1416915.jpg]
What's that burning smell?
Yes, exhaust headers get HOT, FAST. It appears that the burning smell was wafting up to the steering stem and appearing to come from the ignition switch. I swear I'm going to start seeing communists in my soup next.
Seems you're still apprehensive about dotting your i's and crossing your t's... go compile data until you feel better. :biggrin:
OK I picked up the wreck today. The guy there hadn't managed to start it but thanks to my (now) intricate knowledge of VFR electrics I had her fire right up. Right away it runs a lot better than mine even with a shitty tank of gasoline and probably dirty injectors. The bike appears to have crashed into the back of a truck with a tray bed, so the front subframe is bent badly and the oil cooler has a split in it. The ECU plugs also took a knock, cracked the white plug housing and one of the pins was a bit bent, but that's now sorted. It was missing a bank angle sensor (smashed to pieces) so I had to take mine with me when I picked it up.
Fairings are semi-OK. One side needs a bit of plastic welding but the right hand and tail fairing are in one piece. Handy spares.
Oh I also pulled the airbox - the intake stacks are short front tall rear and it looks like the airbox has never been off the bike.. Damn, that busted one of my other theories about intake stacks!
Now all I need to do is put a chair out in the garage, crank up the radio, drink a sixpack and decide what's easier - moving engines or paying $1000 to register this one with my plastics, subframe and oil cooler.
Discovered new bike was popping quite loudly as soon as the throttle was closed even in neutral. My immediate thought was that this is a stuck PAIR reed valve. Sure enough - shove a marble up the PAIR hose and problem has magically disappeared.
Going over this bike, it looks like it's never, ever been taken apart. I mean, aside from the front end crash damage and rust from sitting around it's MINT. Aarrgh, what to do! Three hours of work and I can put all my farkles & fairings on it but it's going to cost me a grand. Or, I tear into this mint machine and shove its motor into the frame of my '02.
I....I dunno what to do!
[image: gallery_380_6080_447760.jpg]
Busted Oil Cooler
[image: gallery_380_6080_595190.jpg]
Cracked ECU socket
[image: gallery_380_6080_3411369.jpg]
Pretty good condition
If you need a push on what to do, this is what I would do
Firstly the reasoning behind my decision, to register the reparable write off your up for est extra $1K & doing so will give you a later model bike registered but in reality due to being listed on WOR (Australian write off registry) the resale will be no more than your 02 in good working order. Even to register the later model you have to remove allot of parts from the 02 & the biggest pain is the exhaust so in really there isn't really extra work to just do the motor transplant except some frame bolts. This also has the bonus of your 02 motor being out on the floor to inspect & play with (big bore kit maybe). The other bonus is when your finished you can ride the bike without major delay jumping through hoops & you can hold off updating engine number until you decide what you might do with the 02 motor, so zero cost, zero having to deal with boffins at the registry.
So really to remove all the extra's & front sub frame will take longer than the motor swap & you also save $1K, get to ride when finished legally & don't have to jump through boffin hoops. Sort of makes the dission itself in my book MOTOR SWAP :cheerleader:
BUT before I bothered with motor swap I would try the new electrics in 02 as might just cure the problem as you do want to pin point what the problem is don't you.
zRoYzIf you need a push on what to do, this is what I would do
Firstly the reasoning behind my decision, to register the reparable write off your up for est extra $1K & doing so will give you a later model bike registered but in reality due to being listed on WOR (Australian write off registry) the resale will be no more than your 02 in good working order. Even to register the later model you have to remove allot of parts from the 02 & the biggest pain is the exhaust so in really there isn't really extra work to just do the motor transplant except some frame bolts. This also has the bonus of your 02 motor being out on the floor to inspect & play with (big bore kit maybe). The other bonus is when your finished you can ride the bike without major delay jumping through hoops & you can hold off updating engine number until you decide what you might do with the 02 motor, so zero cost, zero having to deal with boffins at the registry.
So really to remove all the extra's & front sub frame will take longer than the motor swap & you also save $1K, get to ride when finished legally & don't have to jump through boffin hoops. Sort of makes the dission itself in my book MOTOR SWAP :cheerleader:
BUT before I bothered with motor swap I would try the new electrics in 02 as might just cure the problem as you do want to pin point what the problem is don't you.
Interesting. I had only skimmed the service manual and it seemed like a motor swap was a big deal. You're saying it's not?
What about the following:
Surely that makes the job quite long?
I haven't ever needed to remove motor but looking at procedure I'm sure there are short cuts you can take for example the motor is part of swing arm pivot so if you remove shock & support motor with enough blocks you can remove main frame with front end up & away so motor with swing arm left on ground. You would still need to remove items to make job easy that may foul but looking at bike the main frame if motor supported will just lift off the trick would be making sure it is supported. Radiators are a single bolt with some hose clamps so no big deal there & you would have air box off to disconnect throttle cables. So more or less you would transfer the motor & swing arm ass across, have a good look at the bike you bought I'm sure it would work.
You would normally remove swing arm from motor because you want to split the cases & work on motor you don't you mainly just want to swap assemblies, you still would need to drain brake fluid & all fluids except oil but I'm sure you would replace that to start a service history.
It's really much less of a motor swap, and much more like a frame swap.
Remove bodywork & complete exhaust, place support under motor, remove forks, remove frame. Install your good frame and replace other bits in reverse order.
Rob's got a good pictorial of this in his "Get Bent" thread where he documents rebuilding his 5th gen with a new frame.
ps, I'm with Roy on this one.
SEBSPEEDIt's really much less of a motor swap, and much more like a frame swap.
Remove bodywork & complete exhaust, place support under motor, remove forks, remove frame. Install your good frame and replace other bits in reverse order.
Rob's got a good pictorial of this in his "Get Bent" thread where he documents rebuilding his 5th gen with a new frame.
ps, I'm with Roy on this one.
SOLD. I'll swap frames. Probably even use the swingarm from the new bike, but keep the shock on mine (since it's an ABS model with remote preload), but that's a 30 minute job.
Thanks fellas. I was going to go for a ride this weekend but I think the better option is to stay home and work in the garage on the two bikes. :beer:
Actually first thing's first - I will try the new bike's tank and pump on my bike, see if it changes engine behaviour. After that, there's not much left except the engine and the stuff inside it that could be toasted.
OK folks I have moved ALL the electrics from the new bike to my old bike. Started her up, and.... SAME PROBLEM as with the USA model 2006 ECU.
Time to put the new motor in as well. Something inside my 02 motor is totally stuffed!! If it was an electrical part, surely it would have to be the ignition pulse generator?
On the upside, it seems I have a perfectly good wiring harness and 2006 model ECU for anyone who's interested!
Well, you're nothing, if not methodical and doggedly determined.
I think I'd have fixed the problem with a half-pound of C-4 a long time ago!!!
Veefer800CanuckWell, you're nothing, if not methodical and doggedly determined.
I think I'd have fixed the problem with a half-pound of C-4 a long time ago!!!
Tempting. Very tempting. I will be a good boy and try the spark plugs from the new bike in the old engine first. Not that I can see how they'd make the engine rev to 3,000rpm when I start it up, but at this point it's worth eradicating everything, motor swap or not.
Veefer800CanuckHow did we know that you would come out on top through using perseverance And blunt force???
I am the king of percussive maintenance!
Backyard engineering at its finest! :biggrin:
kaldekVeefer800CanuckHow did we know that you would come out on top through using perseverance And blunt force???
I am the king of percussive maintenance!
"Percussive Maintenance"
I love it! Lol
Righty-o, I've got the old motor out of the 2002 frame. I even did it by myself, without a jack. I just knocked the forks up through the triple clamps and lowered the bike down, then took the last bolt out of the motor. It was a close thing - much harder with the wiring harness in the way!
I did notice though that either the new bike was missing some engine mount spacers, or I forgot that I took them out. If not, it appears that the new bike has had the engine out before, or it's a different engine than what I'm expecting......
Hmm, I wonder if there's an easy way to tell if the engine number is the original one that came with the frame?
kaldekRighty-o, I've got the old motor out of the 2002 frame. I even did it by myself, without a jack. I just knocked the forks up through the triple clamps and lowered the bike down, then took the last bolt out of the motor. It was a close thing - much harder with the wiring harness in the way!
I did notice though that either the new bike was missing some engine mount spacers, or I forgot that I took them out. If not, it appears that the new bike has had the engine out before, or it's a different engine than what I'm expecting......
Hmm, I wonder if there's an easy way to tell if the engine number is the original one that came with the frame?
Looking at the 02 & 06 frame parts the spacers are the same, they are numbered differently but use same part numbers, you will know if there are spacers you can't remember if you look around your garage you should have 2 of everything.
http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2002/VFR800+AC/FRAME/parts.html
http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2006/VFR800+AC/FRAME/parts.html
The only way to know if engine was swaped which is unlikely is do a full registry check which will cost you & see if engine number matches VIN number on record, if it does it will tell you original motor or there will be a listing motor changed, if it doesn't match then motor was changed but not recorded with registry.
zRoYzThe only way to know if engine was swaped which is unlikely is do a full registry check which will cost you & see if engine number matches VIN number on record, if it does it will tell you original motor or there will be a listing motor changed, if it doesn't match then motor was changed but not recorded with registry.
Yeah, I did a vehicle status check - the engine number is registered to the VIN so either it's the original motor or the previous owner (prior to the smash) had it swapped out. Unlikely given the low kilometres on it.
I must just have misplaced them!
OK new engine is in the old frame - did it myself without a jack! The bike is now slowly being put back together.
Of course, I forgot to put the chain back on when I installed the swingarm. Do I bother taking it off again or just buy a new link? Decisions, decisions....
kaldekOf course, I forgot to put the chain back on when I installed the swingarm. Do I bother taking it off again or just buy a new link? Decisions, decisions....
Gah, nobody has any link pins in stock. Looks like the swingarm's coming off again. :pissed:
kaldekkaldekOf course, I forgot to put the chain back on when I installed the swingarm. Do I bother taking it off again or just buy a new link? Decisions, decisions....
Gah, nobody has any link pins in stock. Looks like the swingarm's coming off again. :pissed:
If an x-ring or o-ring you can buy any brand chain link that is that type to replace & even if they order your looking 3 days max so can be the last thing you do as I'm sure there is enough stuff to do until then. But as you have had swing arm off it would be easy to remove again.
Damn man, 5th gen you can leave it on...
It's alright. Only took me 5 minutes in the end! I even left the shock connected.
OK, bike is running. Won't speak for how well it's going - I'll wait until I've ridden it before making any calls. Couldn't fit the Motad headers back on though, as the downpipe gaskets were all chewed up and the fitment was always tight to begin with. I'll need new gaskets so in the meantim I fitted the stock headers from the new bike, which kinda sucks because they're so darned quiet!!
you gonna have a VTEC yard sale afterwards???
Well done Kaldek this post is almost as epic as the one a couple of years ago when a lawyer sucked us all in whilst he extracted a new VFR out of Honda. Congrats you are a persistent b-----d. I'm hoping for it all to come out well for you. :fing02:
Veefer800Canuckyou gonna have a VTEC yard sale afterwards???
Hells yeah. There's the new fuel tank, the ECU and keys from the old bike, a whole bunch of stuff to hit eBay. Roy already claimed the ducktail too.
It's done. I've ridden it, and she's OK. Mentally, I'm shattered. In 9 days of my free time I have completely disassembled two VFR800s and built one back up with all the electrics and mechanicals (swingarm included) of the new one.
The new motor has a much better clutch - I've had to adjust my lever out for the first time in four years. It may also have a stuck open thermostat - not fully sure about that yet as it's a warm day.
Way to go ! YOu have fortitude my man - good job!!
kaldekIt's done. I've ridden it, and she's OK. Mentally, I'm shattered. In 9 days of my free time I have completely disassembled two VFR800s and built one back up with all the electrics and mechanicals (swingarm included) of the new one.
The new motor has a much better clutch - I've had to adjust my lever out for the first time in four years. It may also have a stuck open thermostat - not fully sure about that yet as it's a warm day.
:worthlesswithoutpics:
KanadianKenWay to go ! YOu have fortitude my man - good job!!
I know. I'm like a dog with a bone sometimes.
The person who deserves the most kudos is my wife Melissa, for putting up with me in the garage all day last Saturday, most of Sunday, every evening since then, all of yesterday, all of last night and half of today. I have three young children all under seven and a full time job. They're happy, but I feel bad for abandoning them.
Take them all out for Pizza tomorrow night!
Then, watch a DVD together at home, something funny.
Then, next week, take each of the kids out for a ride on the back of Daddy's bike. (or the front, for the younger ones)
And, take your wife out for a ride after that.
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My bike before teardown
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New '06 stripped-right
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New '06 stripped-left
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New bike ready for the motor to drop out
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New bike still waiting for the motor to be dropped
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I toyed with the idea of using the jack for a while
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My bike ready for the motor to drop
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New motor, old frame. Soon to be together!
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All done?
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Anyone want a chopper?
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My poor Motad's couldn't be used for now.
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Parts, anyone?
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Plenty of spares forever more...
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What to do with the old motor?
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For sale!
Wow - haven't seen a thread this interesting in a long time! Glad it worked out. If it were me, I'd be sick of wrenching by now, but the curiosity of what was going on inside that old motor would be killing me. Before it went off to the scrap dealer, I'd be taking it apart to see what was up with it. What was it - about 2 weeks from locating the donor bike to having it complete? Well done!
kaldek[image: gallery_380_3610_83049.jpg]
What to do with the old motor?
Surely there is a way to rig up a V-4 blender for TMAC. Or maybe a VTEC Barcalounger. :goofy:
CogswellWhat was it - about 2 weeks from locating the donor bike to having it complete? Well done!
Nine days. It was a bad idea, because on Sunday evening I crashed and came down with a terrible virus. I think I was holding up until the job was done.
I keep poking my head into the garage and wanting to tidy up in there but I basically haven't slept much in the last 48 hours. The upshot was that I was awake (4am) to watch the Indy GP!
kaldekCogswellWhat was it - about 2 weeks from locating the donor bike to having it complete? Well done!
Nine days. It was a bad idea, because on Sunday evening I crashed and came down with a terrible virus. I think I was holding up until the job was done.
I keep poking my head into the garage and wanting to tidy up in there but I basically haven't slept much in the last 48 hours. The upshot was that I was awake (4am) to watch the Indy GP!
Well kudos to you anyhoo, great job! You blow me away.... :fing02:
Now we need a contest on renaming this thread... :biggrin:
[image: View Post]crazybrother, on 30 August 2011 - 09:08 AM, said:
Just curious, what was wrong with the Donor Bike? Why not just make the '06 your new Bike and ride it?[image: View Post]Veefer800Canuck, on 30 August 2011 - 09:11 AM, said:
[image: View Post]crazybrother, on 30 August 2011 - 09:08 AM, said:
Just curious, what was wrong with the Donor Bike? Why not just make the '06 your new Bike and ride it?[image: View Post]Veefer800Canuck, on 30 August 2011 - 05:31 PM, said:
Yeah but although Kaldek could have gotten it titled, he would have had to pay a bunch of money in fees to have it done, so he went the other way. Now he has a clean title for basically a 2006 with 2002 frame and bodywork.[image: View Post]kaldek, on 01 September 2011 - 01:35 AM, said:
However, it's definitely got a slight tick from one of the valve buckets.[image: View Post]pres589, on 01 September 2011 - 04:18 AM, said:
Are you sure it isn't a hydraulic chain adjuster for the cam chain? A lifter tick would be a scary thing since wear would cause the clearance to shrink, not grow, so they 'tighten up' with mileage.
[image: View Post]dogman, on 02 September 2011 - 01:56 AM, said:
Thats no small job.[image: View Post]Veefer800Canuck, on 02 September 2011 - 06:07 AM, said:
With all the troubles I've heard about RE: failed wax units, I wonder what was wrong with the lever and cable that came before??[image: View Post]kaldek, on 02 September 2011 - 03:51 AM, said:
[image: View Post]dogman, on 02 September 2011 - 01:56 AM, said:
Thats no small job.[image: View Post]Veefer800Canuck, on 02 September 2011 - 06:07 AM, said:
With all the troubles I've heard about RE: failed wax units, I wonder what was wrong with the lever and cable that came before??[image: View Post]mello dude, on 02 September 2011 - 01:02 PM, said: