Yes I think it's true. I've had a Garmin Zumo 550 for a few years now and it has been a great tool. Unfortunately, the latest in smartphone designs have trumped the single purpose GPS units by offering technology and so many forms of functionality that it no longer makes much sense to carry a relatively heavy Zumo any longer.
I just purchased the latest Motorola Droid Bionic which has the futuristic 4G LTE broadband data technology. With one lightweight device, I get an 8MP camera, 1080p HD camcorder, GPS receiver, WiFi plus local hotspot, Bluetooth, MP3 player, endless web applications, email, voice mail, and of course voice with legacy 3G technology. All this for less than the price of a Zumo with a 2 year service contract. Amazing! I'm about to depart on a modest moto vacation which motivated me to buy this smartphone. I down loaded a free app called GPS Essentials but there are many other choices as well. It appears to do most of what the Zumo does and more. The only major difference as far a I can is that there is no companion PC software to create routes and manage tracking data, but who knows, maybe it is compatible with Garmin Mapsource or other routing tools. I know there is a common gpx format that allows exchange of data.
So there you have it. Anyone interested in a Zumo 550? Ha! I think I just undersold it my self.
[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 10 October 2011 - 04:04 PM, said:
Yes I think it's true. I've had a Garmin Zumo 550 for a few years now and it has been a great tool. Unfortunately, the latest in smartphone designs have trumped the single purpose GPS units by offering technology and so many forms of functionality that it no longer makes much sense to carry a relatively heavy Zumo any longer.
I just purchased the latest Motorola Droid Bionic which has the futuristic 4G LTE broadband data technology. With one lightweight device, I get an 8MP camera, 1080p HD camcorder, GPS receiver, WiFi plus local hotspot, Bluetooth, MP3 player, endless web applications, email, voice mail, and of course voice with legacy 3G technology. All this for less than the price of a Zumo with a 2 year service contract. Amazing! I'm about to depart on a modest moto vacation which motivated me to buy this smartphone. I down loaded a free app called GPS Essentials but there are many other choices as well. It appears to do most of what the Zumo does and more. The only major difference as far a I can is that there is no companion PC software to create routes and manage tracking data, but who knows, maybe it is compatible with Garmin Mapsource or other routing tools. I know there is a common gpx format that allows exchange of data.
So there you have it. Anyone interested in a Zumo 550? Ha! I think I just undersold it my self.
Only problem is the coverage, especially in remote area, you cant trust a phone for that. City life, I guess it will work. I had wide band area rural coverage, for lab top, it worked not bad, but still alot of dead zones.
[image: View Post]spud786, on 10 October 2011 - 04:13 PM, said:
Only problem is the coverage, especially in remote area, you cant trust a phone for that. City life, I guess it will work. I had wide band area rural coverage, for lab top, it worked not bad, but still alot of dead zones.
Yes, but that's true for any cell phone. GPS is independent of cell service
My Zumo 550 continues to be an asset. I've had an iphone for several years but it doesn't even come close to replacing the convenience of the Zumo when tearing it up; rain or no rain. I do have a tankbag amp and ER6is that seperates the 8500 and MP3s from the Zumo. I have trouble seeing the screen on the iphone when I'm sitting at a table, let alone in the saddle.
[image: View Post]2thdr, on 10 October 2011 - 04:06 PM, said:
I would be interested to replace my zumo 450...no bluetooth.
However, my droid X isn't waterproof...don't know about yours...also hard to operate with gloves on.
I'm not sure of the water resistance of the Bionic, but that and non-glove friendly are minor trade-offs for the added benefits.
[image: View Post]k13sman, on 10 October 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:
My Zumo 550 continues to be an asset. I've had an iphone for several years but it doesn't even come close to replacing the convenience of the Zumo when tearing it up; rain or no rain. I do have a tankbag amp and ER6is that seperates the 8500 and MP3s from the Zumo. I have trouble seeing the screen on the iphone when I'm sitting at a table, let alone in the saddle.
No doubt the 550 is still useful, just because it is obsolete (as a product) doesn't render it useless in absolute terms. It is rugged, probably why it's so heavy in comparison. I'm guessing that display technology has move forward also, the Bionic appears quite readable in daylight with a larger display than the Zumo.
Plus, I'm not sure if the phone will have the actual maps on internal memory. It will probably use location information from the nearest cellphone mast to identify where you are and start downloading map data. It will continue to download more map data as you travel along/based on the destination you entered. So if your subscription includes unlimitted data, you are good to go. Just stay away from any border as you may pick up a signal from a cellphone mast on the other side. You will get hit with roaming charges.... Kerching!!!!!
Plus, I'm not sure if the phone will have the actual maps on internal memory. It will probably use location information from the nearest cellphone mast to identify where you are and start downloading map data. It will continue to download more map data as you travel along/based on the destination you entered. So if your subscription includes unlimitted data, you are good to go. Just stay away from any border as you may pick up a signal from a cellphone mast on the other side. You will get hit with roaming charges.... Kerching!!!!!
Good point, the mapping is downloaded via mobile data connection as you move along. In that sense, the GPS application is dependent on cell coverage. Makes me wonder if I pre-load a route, can I down load the mapping via WiFi ahead of time? I'll also have to check to see if maps are available to be installed in memory just as they are on standalone GPS devices.
Will the smartphone give you verbal commands and have seamless satellite reception? i live in NH and AT&T/Verizon have they're moments of nothingness.
Although 4.3 sounds pretty good. The Zumo is 3.625" diagonal. But, i don't need to watch it: I just listen, most of the time.
Will the smartphone give you verbal commands and have seamless satellite reception? i live in NH and AT&T/Verizon have they're moments of nothingness. Although 4.3 sounds pretty good. The Zumo is 3.625" diagonal. But, i don't need to watch it: I just listen, most of the time.
Not too sure about the verbal commands, but that would be a function of the application itself, not the smartphone. I would think a competent app would provide audio since after all it is an audio device.
Plus, I'm not sure if the phone will have the actual maps on internal memory. It will probably use location information from the nearest cellphone mast to identify where you are and start downloading map data. It will continue to download more map data as you travel along/based on the destination you entered. So if your subscription includes unlimitted data, you are good to go. Just stay away from any border as you may pick up a signal from a cellphone mast on the other side. You will get hit with roaming charges.... Kerching!!!!!
Good point, the mapping is downloaded via mobile data connection as you move along. In that sense, the GPS application is dependent on cell coverage. Makes me wonder if I pre-load a route, can I down load the mapping via WiFi ahead of time? I'll also have to check to see if maps are available to be installed in memory just as they are on standalone GPS devices.
No I've looked in to it, you need the data connection to keep the map display active. I had a free trial of the Garmin App for my BlackBerry. In a week of normal GPS use, I was amost 300megs of data.
Oh ya, Zumo is IPX7 waterproof rated, your smartphone warnty goes poof if you get one drop of water on it.
I can't see smartphones replacing full time GPS units anytime soon.
Plus, I'm not sure if the phone will have the actual maps on internal memory. It will probably use location information from the nearest cellphone mast to identify where you are and start downloading map data. It will continue to download more map data as you travel along/based on the destination you entered. So if your subscription includes unlimitted data, you are good to go. Just stay away from any border as you may pick up a signal from a cellphone mast on the other side. You will get hit with roaming charges.... Kerching!!!!!
Data roaming can be disabled. There are also some true GPS apps for phones now - 16GB of storage is common so there is no need to rely on assisted GPS (downloaded maps).
I'll wait till you have used it for a year or so to see how you feel about it then.
I may be a little old fashioned but when dealing with electronics, it NEVER pays to put all your eggs in the one basket.
Issues, mentioned above, such as Waterproof, working outside the cellular network, using it with gloves on, are all valid, however I have worked with electronic gadgets ever since the first HP35 Calculator (yes, way back in 1980) and they are ALL prone to just quitting when you need them the most.
Just this weekend I destroyed my Apple MacBook Air, when I hit a disguised pothole at 100 Km/h. Lucky for me I still had my trusty Strike genius sitting there working away like nothing had happened.
It may be dated and the features not as extensive as some of the more modern wizardry offers, however a slightly dated working model, is far more useful then a broken one with ALL the gadgets included.
My experience with the mapping application on my droid smartphone is that it needs a data connection to be of any use as a gps. When it does have data, the gps app is great. That being said, I have not used it on the MC, only on the console of my vehicle but there is no reason it couldn't work as well in a tank bag. As I rely on the spoken instructions, the size of the screen isn't an issue and I wouldn't be trying to enter a destination while riding or driving anyway.
On the last mc trip, I used my TomTom gps which was fine for the most part but it still pays to have a paper map as a backup and for seeing a large area at once for route discussions where the relatively tiny gps screen doesn't portray the overview as effectively.
Call me a caveman, but I don't have/don't want a smartphone or any cell phone with a monthly plan. Firstly, it doesn't fit into my budget and secondly, I have no use for it. I have a pre-pay phone that I can use for $1/day when I'm on the road, and the number doesn't change.
Last time I checked out pricing, you could lay out around 2-300+ for a phone, then $80-100/month for the data plan for 2 years. So at minimum you're spending over $2000 for a convenience. I paid $140(IIRC) for my Nuvi 750, and $20 for my pre-paid cell phone. In 4 years when I'm ready to replace both of them (if I feel like stepping up to new technology), I can buy a new phone, a new gps, AND another bike!! :comp13:
Don't get me wrong, I think smartphones are really cool. I just feel cooler with cash in my pocket vs a phone in my pocket...
If your smartphone has GPS built-in, you do not need cell towers provided you buy the proper application(s) for your smartphone. I have Co-pilot for both my Iphone and Android tablet (one time payment, no monthly subscription). The application has static maps, no data download required (meaning no cell tower requirement). Works just like a standalone GPS.
Having said that, no smartphone or smartphone application I have tried even come close to the usefulness of a standalone GPS. In a pinch, a smartphone or tablet will be better than having nothing, but they can't replace the Zumo. The Zumo has far better maps, is waterproof, works with gloves on and is viewable in direct sunlight.
The software from the dedicated GPS units is ancient. I've tried all the major brands and unfortunately I found Garmin's to be the best, in the sense that it's the least awful. That's because it's still slow, has a small screen with a low resolution (480x270 at best) and difficult to edit custom routes. For instance, when creating a custom route going through A-B-C-D, when you want to add a new point between B and C using map browsing, it puts the map to point A! Lovely. There are some newer Nuvis that have an 800x600 screen resolution, but otherwise the software is mostly unchanged (same routing issues, tested at BestBuy).
Using a smartphone for GPS is more feasible than you might think as long as you don't rely exclusively on Google Maps&Navigation. As long as you stick to an offline navigation software like Copilot Live or Navigon (recently bought by Garmin) and download the map data once via WiFi (e.g. 1.3 GB for the US), you're good to go. The GPS chip from the smartphone is actually more usable than the one from your Garmin because it's assited GPS (AGPS) and uses the cell towers when available for acquiring its position faster. If you've ever waited 1-2 minutes for a standalone GPS to find the satellites, you know what I'm talking about.
But, I don't use a smartphone for navigation on trips longer than half a day. I use a 10" tablet (Toshiba Thrive), a RAM tablet mount and a water resistant sleeve (http://www.amazon.co...duct/B004AM625G). On larger bikes like the VFR that screen size isn't that big of an issue. This setup worked fine even with my BMW F650 GS and I'm in the process of setting it up for my recently purchased VFR as well (looks very promising so far). Will post details once completed and tested. Oh, and that's for about less than half the price of a Zumo.
[image: View Post]gll429, on 10 October 2011 - 09:06 PM, said:
if you have the garmin/tom tom/whatever...
use it... why not?
Well when you're traveling, you don't want to carry multiple gadgets if you can avoid it. The smartphone does exactly that.
[image: View Post]skyHALud, on 10 October 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:
The software from the dedicated GPS units is ancient. I've tried all the major brands and unfortunately I found Garmin's to be the best, in the sense that it's the least awful. That's because it's still slow, has a small screen with a low resolution (480x270 at best) and difficult to edit custom routes. For instance, when creating a custom route going through A-B-C-D, when you want to add a new point between B and C using map browsing, it puts the map to point A! Lovely. There are some newer Nuvis that have an 800x600 screen resolution, but otherwise the software is mostly unchanged (same routing issues, tested at BestBuy).
Using a smartphone for GPS is more feasible than you might think as long as you don't rely exclusively on Google Maps&Navigation. As long as you stick to an offline navigation software like Copilot Live or Navigon (recently bought by Garmin) and download the map data once via WiFi (e.g. 1.3 GB for the US), you're good to go. The GPS chip from the smartphone is actually more usable than the one from your Garmin because it's assited GPS (AGPS) and uses the cell towers when available for acquiring its position faster. If you've ever waited 1-2 minutes for a standalone GPS to find the satellites, you know what I'm talking about.
But, I don't use a smartphone for navigation on trips longer than half a day. I use a 10" tablet (Toshiba Thrive), a RAM tablet mount and a water resistant sleeve (http://www.amazon.co...duct/B004AM625G). On larger bikes like the VFR that screen size isn't that big of an issue. This setup worked fine even with my BMW F650 GS and I'm in the process of setting it up for my recently purchased VFR as well (looks very promising so far). Will post details once completed and tested. Oh, and that's for about less than half the price of a Zumo.
Would be good to see a pic or two of your mount. I have both a Zumo 650 and an Android 3. I use them both. The Droid is notoriously short on battery life although I have rigged a charger to take care of that. The Zumo is easier for me to see. The Droid is easier to program and use. If I had to buy a Zumo today (as opposed to two years ago) I think I'd be looking at the Thrive or some other tablet option. I'm still trying to master the intricacies of the Zumo. I love having it. Great security factor.
[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 10 October 2011 - 10:08 PM, said:
[image: View Post]gll429, on 10 October 2011 - 09:06 PM, said:
if you have the garmin/tom tom/whatever...
use it... why not?
Well when you're traveling, you don't want to carry multiple gadgets if you can avoid it. The smartphone does exactly that.
how much space does a smart phone take up in your pocket?
2nd.. if you crash.. and i hope you dont.. the chance your phone being busted is much greater.. then your double screwed...
[image: View Post]skyHALud, on 10 October 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:
Using a smartphone for GPS is more feasible than you might think as long as you don't rely exclusively on Google Maps&Navigation. As long as you stick to an offline navigation software like Copilot Live or Navigon (recently bought by Garmin) and download the map data once via WiFi (e.g. 1.3 GB for the US), you're good to go. The GPS chip from the smartphone is actually more usable than the one from your Garmin because it's assited GPS (AGPS) and uses the cell towers when available for acquiring its position faster. If you've ever waited 1-2 minutes for a standalone GPS to find the satellites, you know what I'm talking about.
Thanks for the pointers, I checked YouTube for both Copilot Live and Navigon. Both look very impressive and makes the smartphone the true equivalent of a standalone GPS with stored maps. Garmin also has a smartphone app but it seems iPhone centric and I have an Android phone.
Hae you used both and have a preference for one or the other?
I spent a bit of time researching CoPilot Live and Navigon. I settled on CoPilot Live and bought the North America version for $20 thru the Android Market. This includes both Mexico and Canada maps.
The user interface, ease of use, and menu structure feels a bit more polished than the Zumo 550. It's got voice directions, points of interest, lodging, restaurants, gas stations, real time weather and traffic, compass and heading. The data link allows you to upload your tracks in real time with Live Link if you should want to let friends track your trips (not to be confused with SPOT which is satellite based). One thing I haven't figured out is how to display speedometer and odometer. I haven't taken it out on the road yet so the lack of speedometer may be related to the fact that I'm stationary. I'll know soon.
Overall I'm quite favorably impressed, but unfortunately this represents another nail in the coffin for standalone GPS devices. $20 for complete NA map and application is quite appealing.
Thanks for the pointers, I checked YouTube for both Copilot Live and Navigon. Both look very impressive and makes the smartphone the true equivalent of a standalone GPS with stored maps. Garmin also has a smartphone app but it seems iPhone centric and I have an Android phone.
Hae you used both and have a preference for one or the other?
I've used Copilot Live in trips but only for about 1000 miles, maybe less. It's been reasonably reliable and newer updates improved things. I used it with both the tablet and my older Android phone (a Droid Eris). Overall I came to trust it more than my previous Garmin GPSs (a 255w and then a 750).
Unfortunately Navigon has issues on my Toshiba Thrive and it's unable to correctly detect the available free space, so at this point it's unusable. However, when it's working, it's supposedly superior to Copilot Live. It could be my tablet since I'm not fully convinced that Toshiba knows what they're doing (e.g. the Android 3.2 update is still unavailable while almost all other 3.x ones already have it, Netflix unavailable etc.).
Bottom line smart phones are wonderful gizmos but at the moment they don't come near a ZUMO 660 replacement. I used an Iphone with ram mount as a test & it failed as far as ease of use goes so having a ZUMO mounted on my bike & my smart phone in my pocket or tank bag is the best of both worlds.
The ZUMO is water proof, there isn't a smartphone that is so if it starts raining what you going to do stop & put the smartphone away which will then have problems sync gps & even if it still can you then have to rely on voice turn prompts.
The ZUMO you can operate with gloves on, the smartphone you have to stop to do anything, even change music.
ZUMO 660 has stero bluetooth & syncs with bluetooth smartphone so you know when a message or call comes in, I won't answer calls on my bike but it is handy when your expecting a call when riding & know when it's received.
The number one advantage for me is the ZUMO big screen, I have the HTC HD7 & the screen is still to small for on the bike when you need quick glances.
I have a streepilot 2820 on the VFR and a Nokia smartphone with built in GPS. My phone has multiple maps stored on SD card: Garmin City navigator, Openstreetmap cycle map & Nokia OVI maps and the route planning software that comes with it: Garmin Mobile XT & Nokia OVI. The phone also has Google Maps software but that uses offline maps, it is however very quick in calculating routes. Although the phone has the potential to be a every day use GPS system (Garmin Mobile XT can download traffic information which my Streetpilot can't) I have never used it on the VFR. First of all a dedicated GPS is much easier to operate on the bike, it is water- & shockproof, can store more than one pre planned route (not all smartphone GPS software has that capability), has better GPS signal reception and comes with good software that you can use on a home computer to plan trips.
I can see the smartphone replacing the dedicated GPS, where you can keep the phone(/personal mobile computer) safely stored away and only have a dedicated weatherproof touch screen mounted in front of the dash that communicates with your GPS phone using WiFi or Bluetooth.
I'm with the naysayers. Still running a flip phone from 7 years ago. Think $30 a month for service, but could be cheaper if I wasn't forced to pay for unlimited text by the rest of the world. I'm not in an environment where I need access to the internet 24/7, and I don't want be. We survived without it for years before. As for the rest of the functions, I'd rather have something meant for the task that's going to do it well rather than somethings that's going to do it mediocre at best. Phone pics are still terrible compared to a cheap digital pocket cam, and the camera has more built in features.
Data plan $30/month. 2 years = $720. Plus phone cost. So your looking at an extra grand for a smart phone at least, assuming you don't break yours and have to pay for a replacement.
Phone GPS's are great for use in a pinch and that. But no way a replacement for a daily use GPS, especially if you're on a long trip. Good stand alone GPS's will have better response, touch screens that work with gloves, built in maps, more ruggedness, no need to worry about draining your phone battery, water resistance or water proofness, no monthly fees, built in advanced routing features, fewer worries about signal strength, etc...
[image: View Post]skyHALud, on 10 October 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:
But, I don't use a smartphone for navigation on trips longer than half a day. I use a 10" tablet (Toshiba Thrive), a RAM tablet mount and a water resistant sleeve (http://www.amazon.co...duct/B004AM625G). On larger bikes like the VFR that screen size isn't that big of an issue. This setup worked fine even with my BMW F650 GS and I'm in the process of setting it up for my recently purchased VFR as well (looks very promising so far). Will post details once completed and tested. Oh, and that's for about less than half the price of a Zumo.
So how does that water RESISTANT bag work for causing premature failure of the internal components due to overheating?
[image: View Post]NorthernVFRDave, on 11 October 2011 - 08:36 AM, said:
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 10 October 2011 - 07:05 PM, said:
Call me a caveman, but I don't have/don't want a smartphone or any cell phone with a monthly plan.
Caveman :). Sorry can't believe no one else jumped on that one.
nope.. you can buy a smart phone and pre pay it.
personally.. my sidekick with NO voice plan.. (whats a deaf guy gonna do with it?) is 50 a month and has VIDEO chat to sign with my pals :happy:
[image: View Post]2thdr, on 11 October 2011 - 09:52 AM, said:
So how does that water RESISTANT bag work for causing premature failure of the internal components due to overheating?
That's a good point. I plan on using the bag only when it's raining, in which case it should be cold enough for cooling not to be an issue. On the other hand I haven't read complaints about overheating and subsequent failures even when using it in the sunshine, like next to a pool or beach.
[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 11 October 2011 - 06:31 AM, said:
Phone GPS's are great for use in a pinch and that. But no way a replacement for a daily use GPS, especially if you're on a long trip. Good stand alone GPS's will have better response
Nope, they have worse response times. The original poster was talking about a modern smartphone with a dual-core 1GHz CPU. Even my 700 MHz single CPU phone is faster than all dedicated GPS units I've used before.
[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 11 October 2011 - 06:31 AM, said:
, touch screens that work with gloves,
That's true, that's why I'm experimenting with a tablet. Yes, yes, pictures will come soon.
[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 11 October 2011 - 06:31 AM, said:
built in maps
You should always use a navigation app with offline maps. Hence my wifi-only tablet works just fine.
[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 11 October 2011 - 06:31 AM, said:
more ruggedness
Fair point. A case protector is usually fine, but the glass screens are vulnerable. That's a risk indeed.
[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 11 October 2011 - 06:31 AM, said:
no need to worry about draining your phone battery,
You also need to charge the GPS, don't you?
[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 11 October 2011 - 06:31 AM, said:
water resistance or water proofness
Use a waterproof casing.
[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 11 October 2011 - 06:31 AM, said:
, no monthly fees
Nope. Once again, use offline maps.
[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 11 October 2011 - 06:31 AM, said:
, built in advanced routing features, fewer worries about signal strength
That was my point, routing is problematic with Garmin. Copilot has awesome routing in comparison and you have choices because of competition between the navigation app vendors.
Don't get me wrong, we're experimenting here with the smartphone/tablet setup. But like others pointed this out, traditional navigation with dedicated GPS units face a steep decline and we're in the process of moving to smarter general-purpose devices which get the job done better and cheaper while being useful for other things as well. It has already started, whether you like it or not, but it'll take time to sort out the details.
[image: View Post]skyHALud, on 11 October 2011 - 12:49 PM, said:
[image: View Post]2thdr, on 11 October 2011 - 09:52 AM, said:
So how does that water RESISTANT bag work for causing premature failure of the internal components due to overheating?
That's a good point. I plan on using the bag only when it's raining, in which case it should be cold enough for cooling not to be an issue. On the other hand I haven't read complaints about overheating and subsequent failures even when using it in the sunshine, like next to a pool or beach.
Probably just passive cooling on those units or do they have a fan?
Also responding to some of your answers above, The charging of my GPS is transparent because it is mounted in it's cradle and doesn't have to move...it isn't doing double duty as another device. I can take it off the bike at night and use it on battery if I wish. I'm sure you know all this. I am just a person that likes to have a dedicated device that does one or two jobs well because that's what it's designed for, instead of a device that tries to be a jack of all trades and does most of it's tasks with mediocrity. A perfect example is trying to use an iPad or other similar device as a book reader. Dedicated book readers are 1000% better than anything else that tries to display ebooks.
If you put your phone in a waterproof case, how are you going to interact with it?
Most major carriers require that all smartphones on the network have a data plan. That's a monthly fee, regardless if you're using data or not. There might be ways to work around it on GSM networks, but the average person wouldn't be able to do it.
Guess we'd have to be specific about models. My TomTom One (<$100) is incredibly responsive to my touch inputs, whether it is crunching something or not. Can't imagine needing anything more.
GPS batteries on average don't last all day. Maybe around 4-5 hours on average across all models. Still some out there that will last all day. That's still phone battery life that gets saved. And smartphone batteries are (more or less) good for a day or two on normal use.
[image: View Post]skyHALud, on 11 October 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:
Copilot has awesome routing in comparison and you have choices because of competition between the navigation app vendors.
Sky, you're quite in sync with GPS tools, what routing tools are compatible with Co Pilot? I've already bought Co Pilot NA and maps, quite the application and no on-line map dependency :smile:
[image: View Post]2thdr, on 11 October 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:
I am just a person that likes to have a dedicated device that does one or two jobs well because that's what it's designed for, instead of a device that tries to be a jack of all trades and does most of it's tasks with mediocrity. A perfect example is trying to use an iPad or other similar device as a book reader. Dedicated book readers are 1000% better than anything else that tries to display ebooks.
It occurred to me that the smartphone is analogous to the VFR. If you have to own just one motorcycle, the VFR comes pretty close to checking all the boxes, the jack of all trades if you will. Same for the smartphone, it's not tops in any one category for which there is a standalone equivalent (but the CoPilot GPS comes damn close). The trade-offs are well in favor of the smartphone.
Smartphone development is early stages, you will see more features and capability in the coming years. But even what is available today in a single device is unimaginable only a few years ago. As good as single function devices are, it is no contest when it comes to the power and versatility of a smartphone. Jack of all trades indeed.
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 10 October 2011 - 07:05 PM, said:
Call me a caveman, but I don't have/don't want a smartphone or any cell phone with a monthly plan. Firstly, it doesn't fit into my budget and secondly, I have no use for it. I have a pre-pay phone that I can use for $1/day when I'm on the road, and the number doesn't change.
Last time I checked out pricing, you could lay out around 2-300+ for a phone, then $80-100/month for the data plan for 2 years. So at minimum you're spending over $2000 for a convenience. I paid $140(IIRC) for my Nuvi 750, and $20 for my pre-paid cell phone. In 4 years when I'm ready to replace both of them (if I feel like stepping up to new technology), I can buy a new phone, a new gps, AND another bike!! :comp13:
Don't get me wrong, I think smartphones are really cool. I just feel cooler with cash in my pocket vs a phone in my pocket...
Your analysis makes perfect sense. Maybe I should consider getting rid of my DROID2. But then what am I going to do on the train to work w/o my stupic time killer games? read a book?! haven't done that since college! :happy:
[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 11 October 2011 - 01:40 PM, said:
[image: View Post]2thdr, on 11 October 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:
I am just a person that likes to have a dedicated device that does one or two jobs well because that's what it's designed for, instead of a device that tries to be a jack of all trades and does most of it's tasks with mediocrity. A perfect example is trying to use an iPad or other similar device as a book reader. Dedicated book readers are 1000% better than anything else that tries to display ebooks.
It occurred to me that the smartphone is analogous to the VFR. If you have to own just one motorcycle, the VFR comes pretty close to checking all the boxes, the jack of all trades if you will. Same for the smartphone, it's not tops in any one category for which there is a standalone equivalent (but the CoPilot GPS comes damn close). The trade-offs are well in favor of the smartphone.
Smartphone development is early stages, you will see more features and capability in the coming years. But even what is available today in a single device is unimaginable only a few years ago. As good as single function devices are, it is no contest when it comes to the power and versatility of a smartphone. Jack of all trades indeed.
I can live with that assessment...as if you needed/wanted my blessing. LOL!
Do you have to have a bare finger for the touch screen to work like an iPhone? If so, you'll have to sew those strand thingies into the fingertips of your glove, won't you? (Can you tell I've never used a Droid?)
I've love my Zumo 550. It's rugged and waterproof and syncs with my Cardo headset and iPhone with no problem. Yeah, the Bluetooth is only mono, stereo would be better for the music, but music isn't my primary use for it. I'll admit the screen resolution is pretty lousy. It's old technology that hasn't kept up with the times, though it should for the price they charge. And the responsiveness of the touch screen is nowhere near the iPhone. When I use the Zumo for nav, it's usually custom routes that I inputted myself using Google Maps.
Do any of the smart phone apps have the capability to import custom routes? I really like what I've been reading about CoPilot Live. It definitely has some good features and good price (on sale right now). But I can't see using my iPhone as my primary GPS on the motorcycle between not being waterproof and not working with gloves. But I can see using it in the car. It looks much better than my wife's Nuvi, with the lane assist, real signs, etc.
ipads fit in tank bags map slot, gps works without data connection, preview your days ride ahead of time and it will remember more map area than what you need to. better than any smartphone out there, no monthly plan. if you need a phone keep yours or it does that too, wifi only for free, or data for $20 a gig with on/off button = plenty of talk time, bluetooth, more (i keep my service manual on mine too). F'ing awesome, imo, beats any and every gps device or smart phone out there,... for motorcycling purposes.
No this is not a spam commercial, i just love mine and see no problem with using it daily or for long trips, im still working on getting it on the bike though, almost there, had mine a while now, just got my vfr a couple months ago and excited about the potential.
search youtube ~ ipad_tankbag mov
search ebay ~ motorcycle ipad charger
I have a Samsung Galaxy Nexus: it is a big android phone using the latest Google operating system. The navigation on it is better than the navigation in my cars by far. You just speak the destination, and it immediately charts a course and gives voice directions. Even better than the iPhone.
That said, I ain't mounting it on my motorcycle. The bike will shake it to pieces.
I think the gps companies dropped the ball. They didn't keep up. The crappy screen resolution and graphics of most navigation systems suck compared to what we're now used to -- the iPhone. Until they up the ante, Garmin and Magellin are going to be in trouble.
Bottom line a smart phone is a good option for everything in the one package but at the moment for a motorbike there isn't a smartphone that ticks the most important boxes. You need water resistant & be able to make adjustments on the fly with gloves on & at the moment those options aren't available. There is also the problem of gps reception with smartphones when you disable tower use (you must have stand alone GPS app) which saves data cost & the problem when phone has no tower reception, there is a fix for this now just pair up a gps receiver which are available in 10mhz for very little cost. The latest release smartphones are getting more powerful chips with better reception but still the times I have tested smartphones my Garmin 660 still out performs them for reception anywhere unless I use an auxiliary gps receiver.
I like technology & would use a smartphone as the sole device on my bike when there is a water resistant model with either a touch screen that is glove friendly or has the capability or app available for voice commands to operate the phone functions so until then my Zumo 660 is the ducks guts & the only reason I carry a phone on my bike is phone calls which while riding have zero importance to me so could really leave the phone at home.
[image: View Post]NorthernVFRDave, on 10 October 2011 - 05:36 PM, said:
Oh ya, Zumo is IPX7 waterproof rated, your smartphone warnty goes poof if you get one drop of water on it.
I can't see smartphones replacing full time GPS units anytime soon.
But it will happen! There's no reason I can see why a fully touch-screen smartphone cannot be made IP-rated, and when that day comes, I'll buy one and ditch my Zumos. Just not until then...
[image: View Post]skyHALud, on 10 October 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:
The software from the dedicated GPS units is ancient. I've tried all the major brands and unfortunately I found Garmin's to be the best, in the sense that it's the least awful. That's because it's still slow, has a small screen with a low resolution (480x270 at best) and difficult to edit custom routes. For instance, when creating a custom route going through A-B-C-D, when you want to add a new point between B and C using map browsing, it puts the map to point A! Lovely. There are some newer Nuvis that have an 800x600 screen resolution, but otherwise the software is mostly unchanged (same routing issues, tested at BestBuy).
Using a smartphone for GPS is more feasible than you might think as long as you don't rely exclusively on Google Maps&Navigation. As long as you stick to an offline navigation software like Copilot Live or Navigon (recently bought by Garmin) and download the map data once via WiFi (e.g. 1.3 GB for the US), you're good to go. The GPS chip from the smartphone is actually more usable than the one from your Garmin because it's assited GPS (AGPS) and uses the cell towers when available for acquiring its position faster. If you've ever waited 1-2 minutes for a standalone GPS to find the satellites, you know what I'm talking about.
But, I don't use a smartphone for navigation on trips longer than half a day. I use a 10" tablet (Toshiba Thrive), a RAM tablet mount and a water resistant sleeve (http://www.amazon.co...duct/B004AM625G). On larger bikes like the VFR that screen size isn't that big of an issue. This setup worked fine even with my BMW F650 GS and I'm in the process of setting it up for my recently purchased VFR as well (looks very promising so far). Will post details once completed and tested. Oh, and that's for about less than half the price of a Zumo.
Did you end up using this set up? If so how did it work or what are you using now. I'm looking for a navigation system outside of a Zumo for the motorcycle. I use an iPhone now that works great for daily use, but really do not want to use it for long trips. I would like to load routes into whatever I get. Right now I'm looking at the Garmin Montana but its just so darn expensive.
I have a zumo 550 and I have a razormax from motorola with Copilot live on it. I have used the zumo for years, routes are easy to set up ahead of time with mapsource, dont like having to pay for new maps every year so I often forgo that if I am going the same old places. Copilot has a similar upgrade for maps. Copilot is not as easy to shape a complicated route with as it is with mapsource, god help me I tried to make a texamap route with it! I can drag a map and add lots of waypoints then it forces the map to roads I would like to travel but its not nearly as easy as mapsource and upload to zumo, cant share routes either, no way to pop a gpx file over to my desktop or laptop to share it! so the zumo still has the advantage, its water proof, glove freindly and is not as easy to get off on a tangent if you should touch the wrong button. Smartphones are strongly making a play for the one stop shop do it all device but not quite there yet!
Let's just wait and see if folks don't recognize the disadvantages of smart phones just in time for Zumo's response
to those deficits. I am sure they are cooking up something else in the Garmin kitchens
A single-purpose device ought to be better at that single purpose. 80% of my riding will not need GPS at all. For the 20% I have a smartphone mount that works with my gloves with the conductive thread I've sewn in. Frankly, I mostly want the turn-by-turn directions which I don't need to adjust much on the fly, so it works for most situations. I used the same phone for calls, tunes and even audiobooks if the trip is long enough.
I'm also a one-stop shop, swiss army knife type of guy. For something I do 20% of the time or less, that's good enough. If I was primarily touring to foreign lands, maybe I'd have a different answer. Most of us come from a generation where we knew how to use maps and markers and directional sense. I use that more than the GPS anyway.
Exploring remote twisties is really my only use for GPS on the fly (don't want to miss a critical turn) and as long as reception is decent, my Razr works fine.
I went for a lung and signed over my first born to pay for a Garmin 660 a while back. I coupled it to a 42" wide screen TV and mounted it on my handlebars. I have to look over the TV but it is a small price to pay for the detail I can see. It has a lean angle detector that buzzes when tire traction gets close to about 98% and I have it set up to make phone calls with a view of the party I am speaking to and couples a radar detector to the screen that flashes SLOW DOWN when in harms way.
And yes, I am about 4 beers in. :smile: but I did buy the 660 and I don't use it to its full capability or even come close.
Seb ----- no smart phone here either. I waste too much time on the computer as it stands and only use the phone I have to yack and figure out tips at restaurants with the calculator,
Another cave man here. Hope my old Captain Kirk style dumb cell phone works for a long time to come.
I guess my paper maps and map books are obsolete too.
But I've never felt much need for a GPS, or a smart phone.
No doubt they're cool, but it's the expense I don't like. Especially when it's every month.
And I guess there's an element of not wanting the pita of having to learn how to work yet another gadget.
Plus the smart phones appear to be highly addictive. A major time suck. :beer:
[image: View Post]Coastie, on 26 April 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:
[image: View Post]skyHALud, on 10 October 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:
But, I don't use a smartphone for navigation on trips longer than half a day. I use a 10" tablet (Toshiba Thrive), a RAM tablet mount and a water resistant sleeve (http://www.amazon.co...duct/B004AM625G). On larger bikes like the VFR that screen size isn't that big of an issue. This setup worked fine even with my BMW F650 GS and I'm in the process of setting it up for my recently purchased VFR as well (looks very promising so far). Will post details once completed and tested. Oh, and that's for about less than half the price of a Zumo.
Did you end up using this set up? If so how did it work or what are you using now. I'm looking for a navigation system outside of a Zumo for the motorcycle. I use an iPhone now that works great for daily use, but really do not want to use it for long trips. I would like to load routes into whatever I get. Right now I'm looking at the Garmin Montana but its just so darn expensive.
Yes I did. I started by setting up the tablet mount for the VFR:
The screen quality is miles better (AMOLED display) and it's large enough (4.65"). I'm currently working on an improved setup to have it mounted higher up, so that it's easier to glance at the route.
I'm still pretty happy with Copilot. It's far from perfect, but editing a route is a breeze compared to any dedicated GPS unit I've tried (e.g. route dragging, very similar to Google Maps). Route sharing is not that great (proprietary file format, can be shared only with an online backup solution like DropBox). As a backup, I have Google Navigation (requires data connection) and Navigon (another offline navigation app, but rather expensive for what it offers - no wonder the company got bought by Garmin).
All in all, I still stand by my solution, nowadays even more so than before: for almost half the price of a Zumo, you can buy an unlocked Galaxy Nexus ($400 from Google) and the Copilot app. Yes, the Zumo has some advantages, but at that price tag it's a ripoff.
The down side of this of course is, if there is a law about the use of cell phones and portable electronics well driving in your area. I'm sure if a local LEO saw an iPad strapped to your gas tank that would be enought of a reason to stop you. And you may end up having to take a day off work and explaining yourself in court.
[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 10 October 2011 - 08:18 PM, said:
[image: View Post]NorthernVFRDave, on 10 October 2011 - 05:36 PM, said:
I can't see smartphones replacing full time GPS units anytime soon.
Ask Garmin about that. The market for personal navigation devices is tanking due to the rapid acceptance of smartphones.
For the Camray and Range Rover drivers, yes. For the motorcycle riders, not so much.
Can someone explain to me why people need all this gps stuff just to get around?i know people who use their gps constantly even to go places they have been hundreds of times.
If you don't travel much then it is pretty hard to understand, but if you like to head out for 2-3 weeks and you have a destination then the GPS beats the pants off paper maps. I've used paper maps for 40 years and AFAIC the GPS is one of the greatest things since sliced bread.
I love to use mine to find those cool twisty, scenic roads when I get to an unknown area. And pulling up to a 4-way stop and just glancing at the GPS screen to see I need to go right is soooo much quicker than finding my place on a paper map on the tankbag.
Like I said if you don't really travel much, you don't really need one that much. But they are great when it comes time to find your way to an address in a big subdivision where all the streets look the same.
As the thread starter, I guess I should chime in once more. I just returned from a 3600 mile two week trip thru UT, CO, NM, AZ from CA. I used CoPilot Live exclusively on my phone and didn't even bother bringing my Zumo as backup because I wanted to shed as much weight as possible.
This is more of a mini-review of CoPilot application than anything, I must say the application leaves several things to be desired compared to Garmin but on the other hand it does a few things a Zumo can't do quite as well. The navigation of CoPilot has bugs or quirks that are frustrating to say the least. If the route is interrupted and restarted in the middle of the route it tries to direct you back to the beginning apparently because every few hundred yards or next turn opportunity it tells you to make a U-turn which I can only assume is to the start of the route! The only way to get around this is to quit the route and enter the destination from where you happen to be, but that is easier said than done if you want a specific predetermined route. Frustrating as hell. Also, the menu structure and logic is amatuer at best. Navigating the menus is a maze with no intuitive path, for example displaying your recent tracks is buried deep in the Settings menu where you least expect to find it.
The lack of compatible files and lack of interface to say MS Streets&Trips means doing all the routing in the application which is very tedious. I did find a convenient file format converter which can take a gpx route file from S&T and convert it to CoPilot format which I can then load to a specific folder but this assumes you know which folder to place it in. At least this is better than doing it in the CoPilot application.
What can CoPilot do better than a Garmin? The real time weather reports is convenient and no extra charge. Also, the Live Services is good which supplies local or nearby services obtained from a cellular data network unlike Garmin which relies on a static database. Also, CoPilot has something called Live Link which can report your position at specified time intervals to other users via email. Of course this assumes you have a good cellular data connection, if you're out of range, then it won't work. SPOT uses satellite data link which is much more reliable if you need tracking service for safety purposes.
Overall I give CoPilot 3/5 stars. Not nearly as polished as Garmin in terms of pure navigation functionality and maturity but this is not the limitation of the smartphone but of the application developer. In time these warts should be resolved and/or other competitors will come out with a superior product. I stand by my original assertion that smartphones are ushering out the days of standalone GPS devices like the Zumo. With this one device, it served all of my communication and navigation needs for the entire trip. The future is now and it will only get better!
[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 19 May 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:
The future is now and it will only get better!
Thanks for the review. Did you use the CoPilot Live USA which is $10? What does that offer that the CoPilot GPS app (free) doesn't? They also mention CoPilot standard and premium versions? Like HS I have the Razr Maxx and want to try out the GPS capabilities, the screen is almost as large as my ancient Garmin eTrex. I've driven with other people using the voice turn-by-turn GPS directions and almost tossed them out of the car until they shut it off. I don't see myself ever relying on that feature.
I get the idea that smartphones are an expensive luxury but really my unlimited data plan only adds $30/month to my basic cell service fee. I don't see this phone replacing a dedicated GPS but have it mainly for the dozens of other capabilities it offers. I'd bet within a few years dedicated GPS units will be gone but smartphone's capabilities in the GPS navigation area still need some work.
[image: View Post]ericlw, on 19 May 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:
Can someone explain to me why people need all this gps stuff just to get around?i know people who use their gps constantly even to go places they have been hundreds of times.
I think FJ12Ryder's reply quite enough for the usage of GPS for car.
There are also someone else love to use GPS devices because:
- they like to keep the tracklog of their trips. This is very beautiful function of GPS, which mainly furnished with handheld GPS devices or Garmin GPS devices. The tracklog contains the route you have traveled, with traveling time, elevation, speed... etc...
"Using a GPS tracking device as a “pen,” Nick Newcomen drove 12,328 miles around 30 states to draw the message “Read Ayn Rand” on America": [image: Posted Image]
- many people has the hobby called visiting confluences. "The goal of the project is to visit each of the latitude and longitude integer degree intersections in the world, and to take pictures at each location". This combines between sort of wild traveling and technical geographic skill. A good site to understand about confluences if you like to visit: http://confluence.org/
[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 19 May 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 19 May 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:
The future is now and it will only get better!
Thanks for the review. Did you use the CoPilot Live USA which is $10? What does that offer that the CoPilot GPS app (free) doesn't? They also mention CoPilot standard and premium versions? Like HS I have the Razr Maxx and want to try out the GPS capabilities, the screen is almost as large as my ancient Garmin eTrex. I've driven with other people using the voice turn-by-turn GPS directions and almost tossed them out of the car until they shut it off. I don't see myself ever relying on that feature.
I get the idea that smartphones are an expensive luxury but really my unlimited data plan only adds $30/month to my basic cell service fee. I don't see this phone replacing a dedicated GPS but have it mainly for the dozens of other capabilities it offers. I'd bet within a few years dedicated GPS units will be gone but smartphone's capabilities in the GPS navigation area still need some work.
I use CoPilot Live NA which covers US, Canada, and Mexico. I'm guessing the free version doesn't have any maps which makes sense. I don't know what the other differences are, you should check their website.
I disagree that smartphone GPS capabilities still needs work vs. a dedicated GPS device. The hardware capabilities are virtually the same i.e. the GPS receiver electronics in a smartphone is as good as if not better than that of a dedicated GPS device. I say better because a smartphone can take exploit assisted-GPS that a dedicated GPS device cannot. A-GPS uses cellular signals to vector it's location more quickly than GPS satellites alone and by combining the two, the location acquisition is both faster and more accurate. I'm involved in smartphone design and I can tell you the GPS electronics these days are integrated modules that any commercial device manufacturer can employ in their products. The differentiating features is always the application software as I've already described. You would be correct to bet dedicated GPS devices will soon be gone, but it won't be a few years from now, it is already happening.
Here is my smartphone cradle on the VFR. It's simply the auto windshield suction mounted cradle for my phone which happens to be a Motorola Droid Bionic. This worked very well and never came loose at all after nearly 4K miles. It's powered from the cigarette lighter adaptor.
I recently joined the 21st century and picked up a smartphone.
I have used it on several recent MC tours. My preference at this point is that I will stick with the Zumo as the primary nav device and employ the smartphone as a backup. Perhaps I am just used to the rugged, waterproof Zumo device which is easy to use with gloves. Also I continue to plan my tours/trips on my PC and download the file to my Zumo. Having the same mapset on the PC & Zumo makes things easier. Plus as others have mentioned I also record my tour tracks for review.
I continue to review additional potential smartphone software but they seem mostly point and shoot apps and invariably my routes are more complex. On my car I have been using the smartphone as my primary Nav device to better familiarize myself with its capabilities.
I cannot say for sure because I have a total of about 10 minutes on my cell phone I bought 5 years ago, but I think there are some of the smart phones that also work off the GPS satellites. Or so I have read anyway.
The cell phone definitely uses GPS. It's just that the Google Nav software in particular seems to need a data connection to render the maps. Much of the processing for the smart phones is done in the cloud. For instance to use my speech to text feature on my phone I MUST have a data connection. The phone cannot process the speech on its own.
I've had my Zumo 450 for 7 years and its still going strong. I'm on my 4th smartphone over that same time frame. Mostly because the battery gets cooked from too many charge cycles.
A data connection to keep the maps updated, GPS active for position, screen brightness full to see in sunlight, along with being plugged in and enclosed in a weather proof case, one would think would cause the phone to run hot, killing the life of the battery.
Then there is the whole issue of needing a data connection. Lots of places I ride at home, have holes where you can travel 40-50miles with no cell service. Heck down around The Gap cell service is zero everywhere in a lot of places.
Your smartphone might be ok, for short trips. But any major ride planning I'd want my standalone unit to guide the way.
THe real GPS units work off satelite, cell phones are off cell towers. I'll stick with the real thing, satelite! since I have to depend on it for my job.
Cell phones have built in GSP receivers too and are (at least mine is) as accurate as a regular GPS unit. Cell phones use cell tower signals to get a rough estimation of their global position which quickens the satellite fix.
Regular GPS receivers (TomTom, Garmin) that support WAAS/EGNOS not only use GPS satellites but also groundstations for even more accuracy.
Well, I have the Zumo 450 and just recently moved to the Smartphone realm. That being said I also have the life time map updates from Garmin. Since I already paid for the Zumo, have the latest maps (just updated this week no less), don't have to worry about weather proofing it, and everything is already setup for my bike I don't need the smartphone to pull double duty keeping it for emergencies only.
That and even though the screen is nice and the phone has a lot of nice features I dont want to load my data plan by using the navigation setup and the screen is not nearly as easy to read in direct sunlight as the Zumo.
If your concern is for 2 lbs of weight for a GPS then I don't know what to say. I have a camera bag I store mine in along with all my camera equipment and can't say it slows me down much.
Not saying that smartphones aren't awesome. I love mine just because it has made impromptu intelligence gathering a snap as well as helped me navigate to a few new places in my cages but as a replacement for my Zumo on the VFR? No thanks. But that's the beautiful thing about this topic. You can go either way and if you are happy with your setup then you are good to go.
Plus, I'm not sure if the phone will have the actual maps on internal memory. It will probably use location information from the nearest cellphone mast to identify where you are and start downloading map data. It will continue to download more map data as you travel along/based on the destination you entered. So if your subscription includes unlimitted data, you are good to go. Just stay away from any border as you may pick up a signal from a cellphone mast on the other side. You will get hit with roaming charges.... Kerching!!!!!
The app I use on my iPhone allows me to download maps from my route to the phone. You don't need data to sues it.
The reason I've always used the smartphone is the audio output.
I ride long trips with my phone managing the music playlist or audiobook as well as my navigation at the same time.
It will play music/book until I need directions and the music/book will fade out and the navigation voice will chime in telling me where I need to go then fade back into my music/book. It provides seamless transitions between long straights and navigating cities without ever having to actually look at the device. I have it running off the bike for a charge and sits in my tank bag.
Funny thing is, once I lock in the navigation it will continue to talk me through directions even when I lose signal in the mountains. How does that work? I have no clue, but I was plesantly suprised.
THe real GPS units work off satelite, cell phones are off cell towers. I'll stick with the real thing, satelite! since I have to depend on it for my job.
Cell phones have built in GSP receivers too and are (at least mine is) as accurate as a regular GPS unit. Cell phones use cell tower signals to get a rough estimation of their global position which quickens the satellite fix.
Regular GPS receivers (TomTom, Garmin) that support WAAS/EGNOS not only use GPS satellites but also groundstations for even more accuracy.
well my experience with phone verses a Garmin there's no comparison, garmin wins hands down nationwide works, the phone I prefer to use as a phone, and a garmin with a nice big screen and docking station, I dont see a real comparison.
I have an Android so I just pull up google maps, select my destination, hit Navigate and go!
-Drew
..and as long as your in the "Navigate" mode the screen remains on. (android phones anyway) Downside to the google maps app is if you have Scala Rider head sets (or others) the Google Maps feature does not have bluetooth technology so you can hear the turn by turn directions in your head sets. There is an app for Android called "Navigon" which is Garmin based. It does have bluetooth that you can enable to connect to a Scala Rider, etc. This app however will use up battery life. It does have alot of features that I thought was really neat but I'm going to get a Garmin bluetooth GPS...soon I hope.
The reason I've always used the smartphone is the audio output.
I ride long trips with my phone managing the music playlist or audiobook as well as my navigation at the same time.
It will play music/book until I need directions and the music/book will fade out and the navigation voice will chime in telling me where I need to go then fade back into my music/book. It provides seamless transitions between long straights and navigating cities without ever having to actually look at the device. I have it running off the bike for a charge and sits in my tank bag.
Funny thing is, once I lock in the navigation it will continue to talk me through directions even when I lose signal in the mountains. How does that work? I have no clue, but I was plesantly suprised.
-Drew
The Zumo line (less the 450) along with a fair number of other Garmin units support audio output for music via headphone jack or Bluetooth connection. Just put your tunes on an SD card and go. Plus the unit is powered off the bike already so there is no need to wire up your tank bag.
Music mutes for turn by turn instructions, and you can link your phone to the GPS as well, to access your address book via the GPS should you need to make a call. Also gives you call display on the unit so you can ignore wife when she is calling to see when your home ;)
I believe the newer Zumos also allow you to use your BT helmet headset to access voice commands to search the GPS database for Gas station and to pick and activate navigation to any preset waypoints. Things you really should pull over and stop todo, but under the right situations I don't see a problem with it.
A while ago, I had my 660 just resting in it's cradle after stopping for gas, and lost it on the side of the highway, never to be seen again.
I keep thinking about using a small tablet or smart phone for navigation, with the biggest advantage being a tablet allowing for faster scrolling and zooming of map area. Then again, most of the time I've used paper maps to navigate the fun roads. To flip the other way, something I google addresses on the fly would be pretty nifty.
(I'm rolling with a pay the minutes phone, the type you buy at Walmart.)
I'm likely to go with another 660 for the one-stop shop of waterproof and durable. I dropped my previous Garmin several times on the ground, with only a couple nicks to show for it.
if you are going on a serious trip, where serious weather can occur, go for a waterproof, mc specific unit (read resistant to shocks).
Anything else is like taking a knife to a gunfight.
I still have my phone on the bike as well (in a RAM AquaBox); running the Flitsmeister App. It knows all the fixed speed camera's (as is my Garmin unit which gets updated) but it warnes you for mobile ones that are reported by the users of the App via the phoen network. so you either report it yourself if you see one you didnot get a warning for. In case you get a warning, you are presented with a question "Is it still there Yes/No" this way we make sure those who will come along later do not get a false warning
I have encountered folks on the scottish hils armed with a smartphone for navigation. In chatting to them they did not have a map with them nor a compass (nor the skills to work with either either..... :-( ) Each to his/her own, but if the brown stuff hits the ventilator, either myself or Mountain Rescue can come to their aid. So yes I also carry paper maps on longer trips.....
if you are going on a serious trip, where serious weather can occur, go for a waterproof, mc specific unit (read resistant to shocks).
Anything else is like taking a knife to a gunfight.
...
Not to mention those of us who rely on a motorcycle as our only transportation. I have few mods to the bike, but what I put on had better be workable when I want it to. In other words, simple and robust will make me happy over more features or faster.
I frequently see people with problems with their smartphones. Either some update broke something, settings that did something they didn't want, software locking up, etc. Heck, a friend even had a brand new phone blow off the table in a restaurant, and break apart. My phone can be hurled across the room, and all that will happen is the rear cover pops off, and the battery comes out.
Still debating getting a cheap tablet for reading PDF's/maps on the road away from my desktop.
I never got around to fixing the power button, so the only way to turn it on/off was taking it out of the cradle. So I got used to put in in the cradle to turn it on, the popping it out and resting it there. If I had just fixed the bloody thing right, I would have never gotten into the habit of letting it rest there unsecured.
I have an Android so I just pull up google maps, select my destination, hit Navigate and go!
-Drew
..and as long as your in the "Navigate" mode the screen remains on. (android phones anyway) Downside to the google maps app is if you have Scala Rider head sets (or others) the Google Maps feature does not have bluetooth technology so you can hear the turn by turn directions in your head sets. There is an app for Android called "Navigon" which is Garmin based. It does have bluetooth that you can enable to connect to a Scala Rider, etc. This app however will use up battery life. It does have alot of features that I thought was really neat but I'm going to get a Garmin bluetooth GPS...soon I hope.
Mine doesn't.
I mean you can set it to "not time out" so the screen stays on while navigating but I just hit the button on top of the phone and shut the screen off myself.
-Drew
End of thread · 106 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 14 Apr 2013
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