About to replace my front tire for the 5th time, it states in the manual to replace with new brake caliper mounting bolt each time they are removed. I’m still using the original bolt, should I replace them with new ones or just keep using the same old bolt?
How often do members here replace the bolt?
Ahhhh lawyers. Never did replace a bolt and did the same job you are doing 20 or more times. Just make sure they are properly torqued and a bit of Lock-Tite blue wouldn't hurt.
How often? Never since 1984 on various motorcycles.
Clean the threads male/female, apply Blue locktite, torque wrench, ride.
I would only replace one if it were buggered somehow, but by then, you probably would know you already did something wrong to cause that.
(moved to "maintenance questions" forum)
Thank You for your responses, I guess I can keep using the same bolts and not having to worry about breaking apart.
Hold them up to a rule. If there is a visible gap between any of the threads & the straightedge or visible differences in thread pitch (distance between threads themselves) replace 'em. This indicates that they are beginning to lose their "stretch" from too many torque cycles, and have become brittle i.e. they could snap off the next time you torque 'em down or worse the next time you get on the brakes hard.
Like was mentioned above Honda's lawyers are the ones that suggest replacing them every time.
locktite? ive never used locktite on my brake bolts and they are never loose when i remove them to do mainatence,if you torque the right its not needed imo.never replaced any of the bolts either.
Edited February 8, 2012 by ericlwThe people that write the manuals should replace the lawyers with mechanics.
These bolts don't have a lot of torque spec.ed 20# if I remember right. Yes, on brakes I used Loctite.
ericlwlocktite? ive never used locktite on my brake bolts and they are never loose when i remove them to do mainatence,if you torque the right its not needed imo.never replaced any of the bolts either.
Maybe not, but a drop of the blue (medium strength) stuff certainly wouldn't hurt, expecially with important stuff that like, holds your wheels 'n brakes on 'n stuff.
Helps ME sleep better anyhow.
The OEM bolts, when new, come with a dry threadlocking agent already applied to the threads.
I used loctite (243?) on my caliper bolts, then when I frankenviffered I got some new bolts...and I've had them out and in a couple of times since then.
Are these wht they call "Stretch Bolts"? Same as with engine block studs?.Once they are torqued to specs they stretch to design spec limits and should not be reused.......per the engineers........
I myself never repalced mune when I de-mounted my calipers. Still alive and riding.......
Beck
95 VFR
Stretch bolts, like cylinder head bolts, are usually spec'd for tightening like so:
"Torque to (XX) ft/lbs, then turn bolt an additional 90 (or whatever) degrees of rotation".
I am using grade 12.9 socket head cap screws for my calipers so I'm not worried about them. They're just about the strongest bolts you can buy without getting into exotic materials and $$$.
I've been replacing them because they are inexpensive from Honda. I've never seen the old ones stretched or deformed in any way - I don't think I'd hesitate to use them again if the new ones were more expensive. I wonder if a dealership would replace them on a tire change - it's stated pretty clearly in the manual, but like stated above I think lt's got to do with lawyers writing the manuals.
When re-using the caliper bolts, it's important to get any of the old Loctite off the threads, both male and female. I have some dental picks and a selection of brass brushes I use for that purpose. The dental pick gets the bulk of it off and the brush(s) do a final cleanup. I don't often find much on the female threads on the fork tubes, but when I do, I can usually get it out with the dental pick. If not, I'll chase the threads with a tap for that purpose but only had to once. Clean threads are the only way to get accurate torque readings and maybe why Honda recommends replacement of the old ones.
Another possibility is to safety- wire them
Oh yeah, blame the lawyers...when it's clearly the engineers' fault! :unsure:
The Honda bolts for which the "replace each time" instruction is provided are also identified by Honda as "ALOC" fasteners. These are fasteners that are designed to exert maximum clamping force by being tightened to a higher torque value than ordinary steel fasteners. In essence, they are (like certain other critical-application bolts mentioned above) designed to stretch slightly upon installation in order to exert the maximum clamping force. How many times can you stretch a bolt? Do you ask a lawyer, or an engineer?
Given the rarity of both caliper bolt replacements and caliper bolt failures I think we can fairly safely say that the requirement of replacement each time is probably a bit too conservative. I used to rhetorically ask why so few Honda dealers had caliper bolts in stock if they were actually following Honda's own servicing instructions (they should have had them in bulk dispensers...) However, a stretched bolt will very likely fail if stretched enough, often enough. And as I have noted above, these particular bolts are supposed to stretch even when torqued to the correct torque (not to mention what happens if you overtorque them or use thread lock/anti-seize on them!) So if you don't know who's been wrenching on your caliper bolts since they were new, you might want to think about springing for a set of fresh ones--or maybe switch to titanium.
Precisely why Honda decided to use ALOC fasteners on its brake calipers I do not know. But I think it exceedingly unlikely that this was a decision made by lawyers...
Ciao,
JZH Oh yeah, blame the lawyers...when it's clearly the engineers' fault! :unsure: The Honda bolts for which the "replace each time" instruction is provided are also identified by Honda as "ALOC" fasteners. These are fasteners that are designed to exert maximum clamping force by being tightened to a higher torque value than ordinary steel fasteners. In essence, they are (like certain other critical-application bolts mentioned above) designed to stretch slightly upon installation in order to exert the maximum clamping force. How many times can you stretch a bolt? Do you ask a lawyer, or an engineer? Given the rarity of both caliper bolt replacements and caliper bolt failures I think we can fairly safely say that the requirement of replacement each time is probably a bit too conservative. I used to rhetorically ask why so few Honda dealers had caliper bolts in stock if they were actually following Honda's own servicing instructions (they should have had them in bulk dispensers...) However, a stretched bolt will very likely fail if stretched enough, often enough. And as I have noted above, these particular bolts are supposed to stretch even when torqued to the correct torque (not to mention what happens if you overtorque them or use thread lock/anti-seize on them!) So if you don't know who's been wrenching on your caliper bolts since they were new, you might want to think about springing for a set of fresh ones--or maybe switch to titanium. Precisely why Honda decided to use ALOC fasteners on its brake calipers I do not know. But I think it exceedingly unlikely that this was a decision made by lawyers... Ciao,
Heck, I've heard of safety factors of "5" being used by engineers on their design for many things, so, the bolts might be way over spec'd to start with..... Brakes + the litigious state of our society these days?...I wouldn't doubt if that's the case....
Beck
95 VFR
If it was a helicopter, I could see a safety factor of about 1.3 or so, due to weight restrictions and such, and the stringent service intervals assigned to aircraft.
Land-based vehicles for public transport are gonna have a hell of a lot larger safety factor built in.
And as JZH said, if the Honda dealers followed the service manual recommendation TO THE LETTER, they would have a 45 foot van parked out back of the dealership, chock full of caliper bolts at the ready. So why do they need to order them in when you go to the parts counter????
If a guy were super worried about the bolts, replace with grade 12.9 socket head cap screws and be done with the issue forever.
Titanium bolts are rated to around 120,000 PSI tensile strength, depending on the specific alloy. Grade 12.9 are rated slightly over 175,000 PSI
IIRC, shear strength is around 0.5 to 0.6 of the ultimate tensile strength, and caliper bolts are loaded in the shear plane during braking, so an increase in tensile strength of the bolts will have a positive effect on the shear strength.
I am not an engineer, just information I have gleaned off the internet from bolt manufacturer's websites.
[image: gallery_554_345_76917.png]
Black bolts in the photo are Grade 12.9, as are all the bolts for my triple clamps and handlebars.
[image: gallery_554_564_435293.jpg]
Also, the bolts are anchored into ALUMINUM, instead of cast iron like an engine block with TTY bolts. I think the female threads in the caliper would probably strip out before the bolt reached it's plastic deformation point.
I doubt that given the tensile strength of the aluminum caliper material (not sure about the caliper, but typical aluminum bolts = 55,000 PSI) that the steel caliper bolt would stretch into plastic deformation given the tensile strength of the bolts at 120-175,000 PSI, depending on the material quality.
Note the procedure for TTY bolts, none of which is in the FSM for the caliper bolts.
I still believe that the "new bolt" advice is a CYA move by Honda, and to ensure that locking agent is present on the threads, as it is already applied to the new bolts.
[image: gallery_554_345_7711.png]
Any fastener that is subjected to multiple torque cycles will eventually stretch, and fail. How many cycles it takes depends on many factors that are difficult to predict. That's why you inspect 'em or simply replace 'em to be "safe".
This. The mating surface between the caliper and carrier is not a critical fit. Nor is there any flatness or pinch requirements.
Personally, I have never used any thread adhesive. Considering that the oem bolts come with a dry threadlock, it stands to reason that bad things will happen if the bolt comes loose. Cheap, easy insurance. After reading this thread, I have a feeling I will be using a drop or two of loctite on my bolts next time my calipers are off. I already have some in my toolbox, so it would be foolhardy not to, no?
Veefer800CanuckAlso, the bolts are anchored into ALUMINUM, instead of cast iron like an engine block with TTY bolts. I think the female threads in the caliper would probably strip out before the bolt reached it's plastic deformation point.
I doubt that given the tensile strength of the aluminum caliper material (not sure about the caliper, but typical aluminum bolts = 55,000 PSI) that the steel caliper bolt would stretch into plastic deformation given the tensile strength of the bolts at 120-175,000 PSI, depending on the material quality.
Note the procedure for TTY bolts, none of which is in the FSM for the caliper bolts.
I still believe that the "new bolt" advice is a CYA move by Honda, and to ensure that locking agent is present on the threads, as it is already applied to the new bolts.
Veefer800CanuckAlso, the bolts are anchored into ALUMINUM, instead of cast iron like an engine block with TTY bolts. I think the female threads in the caliper would probably strip out before the bolt reached it's plastic deformation point.
I doubt that given the tensile strength of the aluminum caliper material (not sure about the caliper, but typical aluminum bolts = 55,000 PSI) that the steel caliper bolt would stretch into plastic deformation given the tensile strength of the bolts at 120-175,000 PSI, depending on the material quality.
I still believe that the "new bolt" advice is a CYA move by Honda, and to ensure that locking agent is present on the threads, as it is already applied to the new bolts.
I don't know where my back-up material is, so I'm not going to wing it and say anything more about clamping force, but when I noticed that Honda's torque value for its ALOC fasteners was higher than its "normal" torque value for M8 fasteners I decided that there was probably something more to this than just thread lock. After all, Honda could have just specified "use Honda Bond A" (or whatever is the OEM equivalent of Loctite blue) if they were mainly concerned with the fasteners coming loose. As we know, a lot more fasteners would get loctited than would ever get replaced with new...
Ciao,
JZHVeefer800CanuckAlso, the bolts are anchored into ALUMINUM, instead of cast iron like an engine block with TTY bolts. I think the female threads in the caliper would probably strip out before the bolt reached it's plastic deformation point.
I doubt that given the tensile strength of the aluminum caliper material (not sure about the caliper, but typical aluminum bolts = 55,000 PSI) that the steel caliper bolt would stretch into plastic deformation given the tensile strength of the bolts at 120-175,000 PSI, depending on the material quality.
I still believe that the "new bolt" advice is a CYA move by Honda, and to ensure that locking agent is present on the threads, as it is already applied to the new bolts.
I don't know where my back-up material is, so I'm not going to wing it and say anything more about clamping force, but when I noticed that Honda's torque value for its ALOC fasteners was higher than its "normal" torque value for M8 fasteners I decided that there was probably something more to this than just thread lock. After all, Honda could have just specified "use Honda Bond A" (or whatever is the OEM equivalent of Loctite blue) if they were mainly concerned with the fasteners coming loose. As we know, a lot more fasteners would get loctited than would ever get replaced with new...
Ciao,
Anything added to the threads of a fastener is going to have an effect on your torque reading whether locker, anti-seize compound, or plain old oil. If you're re-using the stock bolts with the factory thread lock removed (which is not easy to do!) a bit of blue Loctite certainly won't hurt, and it's lubricating properties would mean you'd need to up the torque slightly over standard to compensate for the lubricated threads.
Of course Loctite won't do you any good if the bolt snaps off, and makes it harder to extract the remains. Never had a caliper bolt loosen up on me. I just make sure they're clean, and torque 'em just to spec. Had the calipers off many times now, and the bolts still check out fine. I should probably have some replacements handy though as it's only a matter of time until I find them stretched upon removal.
I had new tires mounted and installed the wheels last night with help from a friend.
The manual says to "install the right brake caliper and tighten the NEW mounting bolts to the specified torque."
Do you use NEW bolts?
Enlighten me O' VFR Jedi Master.
I guess Honda considers tham as "stretch bolts" where they can only be tensioned at the specified torque once and must be replaced the next time they are loosened.
I reused mine on my motorcycles bikes already and I'm still alive......but of course, I cannot recommend doing so too if Honda notes in their service manuals to replace them every time you loosen them.....so do it at your own risk....
Edited October 12, 2012 by BeckI am trying to figure which bolts these are. Front brake caliper fiche calls for six of these: BOLT, FLANGE (8X45) 90135-MAJ-G41 . Fiche ref # 32. Are these to fasten the calipers to the front fork? Only two bolts hold each caliper to the forks. Right?
Here is a link:
I am also still alive.
But then, I've never used a torque wrench on those bolts :laugh:
Take this "advise" at your own risk.
I don't replace them. It may be that they recommend replacing them purely for liability reasons. They don't tighten down enough to "stretch" IMO. I can't remember if they have lock tight on them. Maybe that's the reason, if they do.
No, No, No! Honda says to replace these bolts because they come from the factory with thread locker on them. That's all!
They do not stretch, they just should use thread locker.
kaldekNo, No, No! Honda says to replace these bolts because they come from the factory with thread locker on them. That's all!
They do not stretch, they just should use thread locker.
I recall there was some plastic wrapped around the end of the threads when I removed mine. So Lok-tite is a reasonable substitute?
Just for the record, all bolts stretch, its how they exert clamping force. Its a permanent deformation thats bad. and all bolts are capable of that as well. But without a length measurement to start with, theres no way to tell if theres any permanent stretch.. ARP says to trash any of their fasteners that have deformed .001" or more.
Saying all bolts stretch and that is how they clamp is... uh...stretching it. :smile: Steel bolts in an aluminum threaded part are not really going to stretch. The threads in the aluminum may deform, but I doubt that the steel bolt will stretch. Steel bolts in a steel part would be a different story. But hey, I could be wrong. :tour:
Some older Volkwagens recommended that head bolts be replaced after they have stretched a certain amount.
MaxSwellI am trying to figure which bolts these are. Front brake caliper fiche calls for six of these: BOLT, FLANGE (8X45) 90135-MAJ-G41 . Fiche ref # 32. Are these to fasten the calipers to the front fork? Only two bolts hold each caliper to the forks. Right?
Here is a link:
I was looking at that exact fiche out of curiosty but couldn't determine which bolt they are.
I've always just used lock-tite on nuts/bolts that are more likely going to come loose and/or on an important part like a brake caliper. The only "new" items I for sure will put on are crush washers and seals. Of course if the bolt and or thread looks deformed I will replace the item. This can be costly if the threads happen to be on a part like the fork leg. But in those cases I have just used a heli-coil or drilled out and re-tapped the hole with a larger bolt size.
FJ12RyderSaying all bolts stretch and that is how they clamp is... uh...stretching it. :smile: Steel bolts in an aluminum threaded part are not really going to stretch. The threads in the aluminum may deform, but I doubt that the steel bolt will stretch. Steel bolts in a steel part would be a different story. But hey, I could be wrong. :tour:
Some older Volkwagens recommended that head bolts be replaced after they have stretched a certain amount.
Aluminum threads and steel fasteners have no bearing on the fact. Look at the VFR's aluminum engine block and it has steel head bolts, and I promise they stretch by design. If you look at an aftermarket fastener company, they list a spec for their fasteners for how much stretch will provide maximum clamping force. Measuring the stretch of a fastener is actually a much more accurate way of measuring clamping force compared to using a using a torque wrench, and in the engine building world, using a stretch gauge on the rod bolts(the single most important fastener in the engine) has become the standard for serious engine builders, it is a much more reliable method of torquing the bolt.
With the VW head-bolt recommendation, its because most manufacturers use what you call a 'torque to yield' bolt, and they are designed to be torqued once only and not re-used.
Edited October 12, 2012 by NakedVifferIn reality, these caliper bolts never come loose, loctite or no loctite. I don't even use a torque wrench on them any more, I just be sure they're not being over-tightened and I'm good to go. I never give them a thought because I know they will never come loose. The bolts on the 1200 radial mounted calipers are even more stubby and thread farther into the alu than previous VFRs. I have no issues reusing them for the life of the bike. Although there is no stress on them during braking on the 12
Edited October 12, 2012 by TamworthMotormike, the bolts you're looking for are (I believe) items 29 and 31. The drawing's a bit confusing for sure. I've never had to replace the right hand side bolts, but did replace the left hand caliper holder to fork leg bolts because they were very inexpensive. Cheaper to buy the two bolts than a small pack of threadlocker.
I think Kaldek's right - the manual calls them an ALOC bolt. I think it refers to a locking compound on the threads. They're a steel bolt threading into aluminum so I can't imagine them being a torque to yeild...
If you want to replace them go ahead, its not necessary, a drop of loctite to meet the oem spec is good though. I think torgue is around 22 ftlb. Personally Ive never had caliper mounting bolts fail on any bike, and never replace them as a preventative, without good reason.
Just got back from a ride without Loctite on my used caliper bolts and new tires. I didn't die.
Damn, the VFR is fun to ride! \m/ \m/
spud786If you want to replace them go ahead, its not necessary, a drop of loctite to meet the oem spec is good though. I think torgue is around 22 ftlb. Personally Ive never had caliper mounting bolts fail on any bike, and never replace them as a preventative, without good reason.
I reuse too and apply blue loctite, but I do clean off the old loctite before reinstalling. Wire wheel on the bolt and clean out the threads in the caliper.
I have never replaced calliper bolts with new since 1984 and I'm still here, FWIW.
When I grafted the RC51 front end on my bike, I didn't have the necessary OEM fasteners for the triple clamps and brakes, so I used the best bolts money can buy, grade 12.9 metric Allen head bolts. Plenty strong. I use blue locktite and torque 'em to spec. Never had an issue.
Don't use stainless steel bolts for critical chassis fasteners like forks brakes shocks etc. stainless has less tensile strength than regular steel. Bad deal.
I just replaced my caliper bolts with grade 12 hex heads. The stock bolts were visibly stretched at 50K. A dab of blue locktite, torque to spec, good to go.
FJ12RyderSaying all bolts stretch and that is how they clamp is... uh...stretching it. :smile: Steel bolts in an aluminum threaded part are not really going to stretch. The threads in the aluminum may deform, but I doubt that the steel bolt will stretch. Steel bolts in a steel part would be a different story. But hey, I could be wrong. :tour:
Some older Volkwagens recommended that head bolts be replaced after they have stretched a certain amount.
Steel bolts in alu do strech. In fact, for the steel bolts in the alu rods in our drag bikes you don't torque them, you use a micrometer and tighten them to a strech length (and replace the bolts with every use).
I also reuse the bolts, an apply some Loctite 246 (medium strength) :)
It's VERY important to rember the Loctite, as the caliper bolts can be loose with the risk of a serious crash :huh:
I have never replaced them. As far as I can tell, the only reason they say to replace is for the factory loctite.
Torque spec is 23lb-ft.
I hope that's a typo and you don't actually increase the torque to compensate for lubricated threads... :ohmy:
Ciao,
Right. Maybe someone can answer some questions for me...
1. Why does Honda specify visually very different fasteners when the "only difference" is that the ALOC ones come with factory thread-lock applied and the others don't? Have you looked at OEM ALOC fasteners and other OEM fasteners of the same size and compared them? Shouldn't they be the same fastener, just one with locking agent and the other not?
2. Are the ALOC fasteners the ONLY ones on the bike that are supposed to have threadlock on them? If not, why aren't the caliper fasteners just locktited upon assembly, like all the others? (A corollary: if the reason is "liability concerns", liability for what, exactly? What are these incessantly wheedling lawyers trying to accomplish--to sell more fasteners?)
3. Why do the ALOC fasteners have significantly higher torque values than regular OEM fasteners of the same size? Wouldn't the presence of threadlock REDUCE the suggested torque value, rather than increase it?
I'm especially interested in the answer to the last one, because the only thing I can think of is that ALOC fasteners are designed to stretch significantly upon installation. I can see someone replacing the ALOC fasteners with stronger ones (a la canuck), but re-torquing already-stretched ALOC fasteners to the same (relatively high) torque value specified for new ones (and adding thread lubrication to boot!) doesn't seem like a good long-term strategy to me.
[A previous thread for reference: VFRD, last year]
Having just done a little Googling for other threads (!) on other boards on this topic I am astounded at the level of confidence expressed by some people about the "meaning of ALOC". It appears to be almost inverse to their actual knowledge on the subject. Obviously, "Add Loctite Or Crash" isn't a serious explanation, but how can they be so sure that ALOC means "a fastener with threadlock already applied", without any objective evidence whatsoever that that is actually the case? (I mean, apart from dozens of expert Netizens saying exactly the same thing.) Their reasoning appears to be the result of observing two things: #1, Honda has given a special name to these particular fasteners. #2, these fasteners all seem to have some sort of threadlock on them. The conclusion then drawn is that ALOC = threadlock. Hmmm. Is that really the only possible conclusion?
Usual disclaimer: I'm not saying that ALOC fasteners will always fail if re-used. I know they don't, because I, like nearly everyone else in the world, have re-used them many times. Not only that, in my experience, even Honda dealers do not keep them in stock for every tire change for every bike they work on (I've tried to buy them), and last time I checked, brake calipers were not popping off bikes left and right. However, that is not the same thing as repeating over and over an explanation that is, at best, unproven and unsupported with actual knowledge and, at worst, completely false. :ohmy:
Ciao,
2 threads on the same exact topic? merged!
Anyone want to see a picture of a stretched caliper bolt?
About to order some new fasteners for the 91 VFR750F.....
Nobody was answering my question on another thread, so I will ask it here, since there is so much passion about a similar subject.
Was I stupid to use medium thread locker on my brake pad PIN fastener?
Thanks to anyone that answers...
I wouldn't say stupid, as long as you didn't get it anywhere except on the threads. Mostly unnecessary IMO.
JZHRight. Maybe someone can answer some questions for me...
1. Why does Honda specify visually very different fasteners when the "only difference" is that the ALOC ones come with factory thread-lock applied and the others don't? Have you looked at OEM ALOC fasteners and other OEM fasteners of the same size and compared them? Shouldn't they be the same fastener, just one with locking agent and the other not?
2. Are the ALOC fasteners the ONLY ones on the bike that are supposed to have threadlock on them? If not, why aren't the caliper fasteners just locktited upon assembly, like all the others? (A corollary: if the reason is "liability concerns", liability for what, exactly? What are these incessantly wheedling lawyers trying to accomplish--to sell more fasteners?)
3. Why do the ALOC fasteners have significantly higher torque values than regular OEM fasteners of the same size? Wouldn't the presence of threadlock REDUCE the suggested torque value, rather than increase it?
I'm especially interested in the answer to the last one, because the only thing I can think of is that ALOC fasteners are designed to stretch significantly upon installation. I can see someone replacing the ALOC fasteners with stronger ones (a la canuck), but re-torquing already-stretched ALOC fasteners to the same (relatively high) torque value specified for new ones (and adding thread lubrication to boot!) doesn't seem like a good long-term strategy to me.
[A previous thread for reference: VFRD, last year]
Having just done a little Googling for other threads (!) on other boards on this topic I am astounded at the level of confidence expressed by some people about the "meaning of ALOC". It appears to be almost inverse to their actual knowledge on the subject. Obviously, "Add Loctite Or Crash" isn't a serious explanation, but how can they be so sure that ALOC means "a fastener with threadlock already applied", without any objective evidence whatsoever that that is actually the case? (I mean, apart from dozens of expert Netizens saying exactly the same thing.) Their reasoning appears to be the result of observing two things: #1, Honda has given a special name to these particular fasteners. #2, these fasteners all seem to have some sort of threadlock on them. The conclusion then drawn is that ALOC = threadlock. Hmmm. Is that really the only possible conclusion?
Usual disclaimer: I'm not saying that ALOC fasteners will always fail if re-used. I know they don't, because I, like nearly everyone else in the world, have re-used them many times. Not only that, in my experience, even Honda dealers do not keep them in stock for every tire change for every bike they work on (I've tried to buy them), and last time I checked, brake calipers were not popping off bikes left and right. However, that is not the same thing as repeating over and over an explanation that is, at best, unproven and unsupported with actual knowledge and, at worst, completely false. :ohmy:
Ciao,
You're making this more complicated than it needs to be.
Yes you can re-use the stock fasteners if you first check the fasteners for stretching, and if none remove all traces of the factory thread locker + add a dab of medium strength thread locker on assembly. You can probably even re-use slightly stretched fasteners many times before they actually fail, but why risk your bike/life for the price of a simple bolt when all one needs to do is some simple measuring? The stock bolts are only $8 for the set. No reason to be penny-wise, and pound-foolish.
No reason to be penny foolish either.
If many other people have been reusing bolts numerous times and for 20, 40, 60,000 miles without issue, why the hell would I spend money on new bolts??? Obviously it's not a problem??
Take what you want from the internet - it's worth what you paid for it but I myself will not be buying a new caliper bolt unless I lose one!
MBraneAnything added to the threads of a fastener is going to have an effect on your torque reading whether locker, anti-seize compound, or plain old oil. If you're re-using the stock bolts with the factory thread lock removed (which is not easy to do!) a bit of blue Loctite certainly won't hurt, and it's lubricating properties would mean you'd need to up the torque slightly over standard to compensate for the lubricated threads.
The now-merged thread has made my original comment to MBrane's February 2012 post a bit out of place. Anyway, this is backwards--you need to decrease the torque setting to compensate for lubricated threads. The problem is, there is no fool-proof formula to tell you how much to decrease the torque setting. I've heard 25%; I've heard 50%. :mellow:
And sure, if you can accurately measure the actual stretch on your caliper bolts, you can monitor the situation that way, rather than by pre-emptively replacing perfectly good bolts. However, you first would need to have measured the new ones to know how much they have stretched when you measure them later.
Again, I'm not saying you're all going to die horrible deaths if you don't follow the Honda Workshop Manual's instruction to always use new ALOC fasteners...
Ciao,
2thdrWas I stupid to use medium thread locker on my brake pad PIN fastener?
Well, I'll just say that I hope you can get them out again! You generally apply anti-seize to those M10x1.0 retaining pin threads, as they have a tendency to get stuck, rather than fall out...
Ciao,
SEBSPEEDNo reason to be penny foolish either.
If many other people have been reusing bolts numerous times and for 20, 40, 60,000 miles without issue, why the hell would I spend money on new bolts??? Obviously it's not a problem??
Take what you want from the internet - it's worth what you paid for it but I myself will not be buying a new caliper bolt unless I lose one!
My thinking exactly.
It comes down to the level of personal comfort and personally, I am quite comfortable with simply putting the original bolts back, as long as there is some locking compound left on them from the factory. If not, I'll add some and reuse the bolts.
JZH2thdrWas I stupid to use medium thread locker on my brake pad PIN fastener?
Well, I'll just say that I hope you can get them out again! You generally apply anti-seize to those M10x1.0 retaining pin threads, as they have a tendency to get stuck, rather than fall out...
Ciao,
This is what happens when a dentist starts doing his own motorcycle maintenance...
Guess I'll take them out and clean off the blue stuff, put some anti-sieze on...thanks for the advice.
I've never replaced mine. I replaced the brake pad mounting bars once because they were too notched looking. 86,500 miles on the odometer. Maybe I'll replace them next time just to be safe since someone mentioned they are cheap. It's probably not the torque, as it is light, that compromises them but the heat generated coupled with the constant shear pressure applied under severe braking. I think under track or racing conditions I would replace them much more frequently. Normal street riding not so much.
I get it , beating a dead horse, I was checking to see if this thread would ever end.
motormikeJust got back from a ride without Loctite on my used caliper bolts and new tires. I didn't die.Damn, the VFR is fun to ride! \m/ \m/
It's been a while now...
Are you still alive? :D
Don't need any advice on replacing/not replacing brake caliper fasteners, but does anyone have handy the part numbers for a 6th gen to replace the four brake caliper ALOC fasteners? These are what I came up with:
1 ea - 90132-MZ2-000 BOLT, SOCKET (8X45) for left side
1 ea - 90133-MAT-000 BOLT (8X32) for left side
2 ea - 90107-MT3-003 BOLT, FLANGE (8X32) for right side (unsure of these...couldn't tell if same size bolt for both)
At least you can argue about the option. I took the rear disk off my 84 VF1000RE and discovered a PO had destroyed the threads on all 6 bolts and glued the bolts back in. I don't think using new or used bolts will make much difference to me.
Wow!! That is seriously insane.
FJ12RyderWow!! That is seriously insane.
At least I barely rode it before pulling it down. Reason for not riding was huge fuel leak and no working front or rear brakes. The PO rode it to my house and really scrubbed in the new tyres (maybe because he could not slow down in corners?).
Just finished rebuilding the rear end on that particular bike, new hagon shock and everything returned to factory spec (including replacement rear wheel and rotor).
Take a look at this page: http://www.qldcorvetteclub.com.au/tech/tech_talk/bolts.htm
It's pretty informative :)
Edited March 26, 2013 by jenshenrik