Linked Brakes issue

I recently acquired a 2000 VFR800FI and have been going through the bike doing maintenance and correcting minor issues.  I spent a few hours working on the brakes last night....replacing the fluid and bleeding.  Following the shop manual exactly, everything seemed to work out fine.  Got everything bled without much fuss.  Brake handle is nice and firm.  Brake pedal is nice and firm.  Problem is.....handle only stops front wheel and pedal stops only the rear wheel.

Is there a specific component in this linked braking system that could be bad or do I still have air somewhere that I've missed?  All parts appear to be stock.  I don't believe the linking was working prior to my brake work either.....just from spinning the rear wheel and grabbing the handle to see if it worked.....it didn't then either.

I've never had a bike with linked brakes, so I'm not necessarily going to miss them.....just want to make sure that I'm not headed toward some sort of catastrophic brake failure while on the road.

Any thoughts or suggestions of what to check?

The linked brakes do not operate unless the bike is in motion, so if you are evaluating it while it's on the centerstand, you won't see it. You can download a 5th gen service manual from the files section of this site and probably get a detailed explanation of how they operate.

There is a master cylinder on the left side of the front wheel that activates the rear brakes as the front end of the motorcycle dives under braking. You have to cycle that to see if the rear brakes will work while using the front brakes while in motion.

The rotational force of the left front brake rotor activates the secondary master cylinder which then makes the rear brakes come on.

As stated before, you won't see this unless the bike is in motion.

If you push the secondary forward with your hand, you can simulate a little brake force out back, but not much.

Ah, that sheds light on it. Thanks so much for the help. Didn't realize the front wheel had to spin. I do have the manual, but it's in .pdf and I have been just printing out the pages I need.....didn't see that part.

Thanks so much. Relieved to know that it's probably fine then.

IndyFour, how long did it take you bleed them out and did you have any help? I plan on changing over to SS brakelines in a few weeks and was considering doing it myself, but with limited work space and the fact that I have to park my car in a guest parking spot temporarily, I don't want to have to do that for more than one day. The HOA frowns on that.

IndyFour, how long did it take you bleed them out and did you have any help? I plan on changing over to SS brakelines in a few weeks and was considering doing it myself, but with limited work space and the fact that I have to park my car in a guest parking spot temporarily, I don't want to have to do that for more than one day. The HOA frowns on that.

I was probably in the garage for a couple of hours, but I wasn't in any hurry. The job requires removal of the rear wheel....and on my bike with stock exhaust, anyway....that requires removal of the muffler or at least tilting it out. Also, you have to lift the fuel tank slightly to access a bleed valve for the linked brake system. The rear caliper has to come off and set up on top of the rear rotor and the front left caliper has to be unhooked at one point in the process. It's not hard, just time consuming. I have a mightyvac, but usually have better luck bleeding with the "open, pump, close, release" method. The only time that is difficult to do is when bleeding the front left caliper on the link-brake line....I did have a helping hand for like 2 minutes for that bleed, but you could do it alone if you had a vacuum pump. It's all definitely a DIY job, just a bit time consuming....you can definitely do it in an evening.

I had a heck of a time bleeding the clutch line the other day....I ended up having to removed the master cylinder from the bars and tilting it a bit to get the air out. It wouldn't prime otherwise.

IndyFour, how long did it take you bleed them out and did you have any help? I plan on changing over to SS brakelines in a few weeks and was considering doing it myself, but with limited work space and the fact that I have to park my car in a guest parking spot temporarily, I don't want to have to do that for more than one day. The HOA frowns on that.

I was probably in the garage for a couple of hours, but I wasn't in any hurry. The job requires removal of the rear wheel....and on my bike with stock exhaust, anyway....that requires removal of the muffler or at least tilting it out. Also, you have to lift the fuel tank slightly to access a bleed valve for the linked brake system. The rear caliper has to come off and set up on top of the rear rotor and the front left caliper has to be unhooked at one point in the process. It's not hard, just time consuming. I have a mightyvac, but usually have better luck bleeding with the "open, pump, close, release" method. The only time that is difficult to do is when bleeding the front left caliper on the link-brake line....I did have a helping hand for like 2 minutes for that bleed, but you could do it alone if you had a vacuum pump. It's all definitely a DIY job, just a bit time consuming....you can definitely do it in an evening.

I had a heck of a time bleeding the clutch line the other day....I ended up having to removed the master cylinder from the bars and tilting it a bit to get the air out. It wouldn't prime otherwise.

Good to know, Thanks! I downloaded the manual a while back so that should help out a bit. I do have a Mity-Vac, so agin should be helpful. I also though about getting speed bleeders, not sure about that though, but it would be the appropriate time to do it.

Cheers

Takes a long time to bleed those brakes, speed bleeders have to be he way to go.

Duc2V4, what brand of SS lines are you going with, thinking of doing the same to my 98?

I was thinking of the HEL setup. I was looking to buy last year before Cristmas but it wasn't to be, I ended up picking up a Dainese Laguna Seca suit at the MC show instead. After looking at the calendar I think I'll have to wait until after April 15, just in case Uncle Sam is not as kind as last year!

Spiegler makes a set for $400. Are you aware of any difference between them and he Hel set? I have to believe that replacing all those old lines with SS has GOT to improve the feel and performance over the old lines. BTY, did you happen to see how well the VFR stopping distance is compared to so many other bikes? Consumer Motorcycle News shows a 98 with a top 10 result 60 to 0. Not much evidence to recommend a de-link.

[image: View Post]CDmotohead, on 16 February 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Not much evidence to recommend a de-link.

No recommendation - its still comes down to personal taste.....

http://www.vfrdiscus...__fromsearch__1

Not sure the difference between HEL and Galfer, but they're about the same cost. There was some reason why I picked HEL over Galfer, but I don't remember. I don't mind the linked braking system and will probably not get rid of it, unless I need to replace my forks with something that requires its removal. I have always had SS brake lines on all of my bikes that had hydraulics, so it's something I like to have on the VFR too. I have a small list of wants but I think I put the SS lines at the top of the list for now.

O.K.....new issue discovered.  As mentioned above, I changed the brake fluid and bled the brakes earlier this week.  It appears that the brakes are dragging pretty badly.....and were before the bleed as well.  The brake pads are pretty much spent, so have a new set (front and back) on order that will be here early next week.

With only 14k miles, i'm sure this bike has been sitting most of its life, especially the last few years.  The brake fluid change was way overdue.

The rear wheel drags the most.  I spin it and it will turn about 3/4 of a turn before coming to a stop.  The front wheel is not as bad, but still should be more free.

Last night I went out and removed both front calipers and pads, extended the pistons and did a thorough cleaning and lube.  The front pistons seem to be pretty free now, yet the front wheel still drags a bit.  Haven't yet touched the rear caliper.

Is it possible that a gunked up rear caliper with sticky pistons can in turn cause the front linked piston to not retract as well?  Not sure how the PCV (proportional control valve) plays into this equation either.

I suppose the next step is to remove and disassemble all 3 calipers and give them a good cleaning and then replace with the new pads when they arrive to see where I stand?  Any other advice?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

I had sticky calipers too, and destroyed a perfectly good set of front rotors. When I installed my new lines I also rebuilt the calipers, and both front master cylinders. Rubber does deteriorate over time especially when exposed to multiple heat cycles. The original seals were visibly worn with only about 30K on 'em, but they were 13 years old.

I didn't spring for a new PCV or rear MC (too much $$$), but the brakes work great now. Would be nice if they'd sell a rebuild kit for those instead of having to buy the whole assembly.