All, I know the link vs. de-link debate has been going on forever so I won't beat a dead horse. I don't plan on doing a front end swap anytime soon, so I think the consensus is to stick with the linked system. The bike is used for the street, but I'm hoping to start doing some track days soon.
Now, my problem/question is, I am preparing for my first track day (hopefully), and it is finally time to address the mushy, soft, and fading brake system. I have gone through every brake bleeding thread, and I have followed the proper procedure to the letter. However, I still have unacceptably mushy front brakes. I figure, since I am looking into my first track day, maybe it is time to upgrade to stainless brake lines. The stock lines are 14 years old, so it couldn't hurt.
Do you guys recommend the full Galfer Kit ($300 @ Pashnit) for my needs, or is there some reason to spend $440 on the HEL kit? Is the full kit the right way to go, or should I pick and choose what lines to replace?
Be certain you have fully purged the system of any air. This is tricky with the linked brake system. There is a bleeder under the seat I believe. I assume you got that one too.
If the brakes are properly bled, there should not be a mushy feel at the brake lever. Try switching your front pads to EBC HH or Vesrah RJL pads. You will be surprised at the improvement and it will be a lot less money than doing new lines. This should be more than sufficient for your first time at the track.
I had the same issue & figured that since I was keeping the bike I might as well have the good setup. I went for the Galfer lines. Remarkable difference!!! I only use Honda pads because the HH ones kill the rotors & Honda ones work just fine.
I'm really at a loss as far as further steps I could take during bleeding. I have followed the correct procedure, listed here and in the Haynes manual, twice in the last 8 months. You know, follow the correct bleed order, tilt the front left caliper back X degrees, hit the valve under the seat, then the rear, zip tie on the lever overnight, etc. Yet still, I can pull the lever into the bar.
One thing I haven't tried is replacing the pads. Thanks for the tip. I'll have to check what is in there now, and their condition.
I really don't have any suggestions, just another person who says that something is wrong somewhere. I have a '99 that has the original brake fluid (yeah, I know, bad, bad), original lines, and the brakes are solid. No give in the brake lever whatsoever. I have changed the brake pads a couple of times and am running the OEM Honda pads.
FWIW I have Galfer lines to put on but haven't done it because of the nightmare of bleeding.
I'm not sure what could be wrong. I don't use a vacuum bleeder tool, as to be absolutely certain no air is introduced. I have followed the procedure down to the T, and yet I can still pull the lever to the bar. I visually inspected the master cylinder seals, and I couldn't see anything wrong (not to say there isn't something). I'm at my wits end!
When I bought the bike I don't think the PO had ever changed the fluid. There was some nasty substance in the reservoirs of the clutch and front brake. Think it has anything to do with my problem? I suppose if that smegma is in the brake lines, and it is compressible, it could be causing my problems.
Ive always maintained that manual bleeding produced the best results with the least air in the lines and the best lever feel, Until I did the brakes on my VFR. try a vacuum bleeder, worked like a dream on mine.
Have you paid attention to the calipers?
Carefully clean the pistons, the sliding pins and the pad retaining pins. Grease with red rubber grease. Replace anything worn.
Clean sliding pins in particular are essential for good operation. If they do not work correctly you only have one side of the caliper working and it feels spongy.
Pic shows my 800FiY front caliper.
Almost looks like he mixed regular brake fluid with silicon brake fluid. It looks a lot like that if you don't clean all the old fluid out.
Stucky, on 01 May 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:
I'm not sure what could be wrong. I don't use a vacuum bleeder tool, as to be absolutely certain no air is introduced. I have followed the procedure down to the T, and yet I can still pull the lever to the bar. I visually inspected the master cylinder seals, and I couldn't see anything wrong (not to say there isn't something). I'm at my wits end!
When I bought the bike I don't think the PO had ever changed the fluid. There was some nasty substance in the reservoirs of the clutch and front brake. Think it has anything to do with my problem? I suppose if that smegma is in the brake lines, and it is compressible, it could be causing my problems.
Once you drain the master cylinder, it can be difficult to get all of the air out of it. Fluid will flow past the trapped air to the caliper and out of the bleed nipple. Try tapping on the master cylinder then slowly squeezing the lever. If you see a bubble, you have air in the master cylinder. If you can't get the air out with the master cylinder on the bike, remove it and prime it at your work bench after you clean it thoroughly. Tap with the something firm like a screwdriver handle.
Reverse bleeding works very well with the conventional brakes, i.e. non-linked, non-ABS, on my '95. You push brake fluid from the bleed nipple up to the reservoir which is the natural direction that air bubbles want to go.
I've never heard of anybody trying it on the newer models though. Maybe it won't work with all the extra valves in the system.
![[image: Posted Image]](http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy259/DesmoStucky/June%202011%20West%20Coast%20Ride/smegma.jpg){kind=link}