The cranking started getting slower and slower then I got a small puff of smoke near the battery somewhere.
Update
I bought a new gel battery since I didn't know the history of my existing unit. I had the starter tested at a local starter rebuilder, he said it tested OK, it tries to turn over but won't.
[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 23 May 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:
Pull it up next to your car and use it to give it a jump. Then worry about a new battery.
Yeah good idea I'll jump it with the Fiat, THAT should crank it over!
[image: View Post]karhawk, on 23 May 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:
[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 23 May 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:
Pull it up next to your car and use it to give it a jump. Then worry about a new battery.
Yeah good idea I'll jump it with the Fiat, THAT should crank it over!
Aren't Italians known for having fantastic electrical systems?
Just had a similar problem with the miniceptor. Remember, Voltage dosen't mean that Amperage is there. Amperage is important, without that, the Voltage is pushing basically nothing. I second the jump start idea, and I'll give a vote for a new battery. Cheap vs expensive is of little concequence, cheap batteries just need replaced more often I find. Should be able to get about two years from a $40 special if ridden regularly, more if you are religious about using a battery tender all the time.
[image: View Post]karhawk, on 23 May 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:
[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 23 May 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:
Pull it up next to your car and use it to give it a jump. Then worry about a new battery.
Yeah good idea I'll jump it with the Fiat, THAT should crank it over!
Just DON'T have the car running when you connect the cables (or at any time while they are connected). The car's charging system operates at a higher voltage, and will FRY your bike's electricals.
[image: View Post]CornerCarver, on 23 May 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:
have a local auto parts store test the battery with a load. I think it needs to be replaced
It won't crank hooked up to the Fiat which has a new battery, is the solenoid failing?
easy to tell if you touch the positive cable to that side of the starter relay and bypass the relay... does the starter feel too warm to keep your hand opn it while attempting to crank?
[image: View Post]CornerCarver, on 23 May 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:
easy to tell if you touch the positive cable to that side of the starter relay and bypass the relay... does the starter feel too warm to keep your hand opn it while attempting to crank?
I'll ck that, the fairings have to come off, if it wont crank I don't push it although I did get a puff if smoke out of that area a couple day ago, cranking with a tired battery and then puff! Smoke, you can usually smell problems first. I think I'll change the relay. Which wires are jumped to bypass the relay?
the start relay has the 30 amp fuse under the red cover that also holds the 4 wires. trace the two large gauge wires back, one will go directly to the positive of the battery and the other goes to the starter.
touch the positive lead from your jumper battery to the side of the relay that goes to the starter, not to the side that is about 5" long and goes to the battery.
[image: View Post]Dutchy, on 24 May 2012 - 04:21 AM, said:
The fact that the solenoid is clicking does not mean it is not broken...... Found that out myself a few years ago....
I'll bypass the solenoid and see what happens, I think I have a good battery, it shows over 12v and the headlights are bright and the horn is loud,
if it's not the solenoid it must be the starter?
My suggestion is for you to stop guessing, gain access to the factory service manual and follow the troubleshooting instructions therein accordingly.
Since you say you've already observed electrical components on the motorcycle have been "smoking" and have smelled things burning these are never good signs. If you simply keep making uninformed guesses about what may be wrong and continue throwing volts and amps at the issue by jumping from oversize auto batteries and battery chargers you're running the risk of causing even more damage imo.
Better to take it to a competent motorcycle mechanic if you have little (or no) practical experience with troubleshooting & repairing electrical issues.
Stopping now and turning the problem over to someone w/the tools and experience may cost less in the long run.
Sadly, I fear your motorcycle may already have suffered damage to the starter, stator, RR, wiring harness, main fuse, etc.
[image: View Post]smoothsailin, on 24 May 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:
My suggestion is for you to stop guessing, gain access to the factory service manual and follow the troubleshooting instructions therein accordingly.
Since you say you've already observed electrical components on the motorcycle have been "smoking" and have smelled things burning these are never good signs. If you simply keep making uninformed guesses about what may be wrong and continue throwing volts and amps at the issue by jumping from oversize auto batteries and battery chargers you're running the risk of causing even more damage imo.
Better to take it to a competent motorcycle mechanic if you have little (or no) practical experience with troubleshooting & repairing electrical issues.
Stopping now and turning the problem over to someone w/the tools and experience may cost less in the long run.
Sadly, I fear your motorcycle may already have suffered damage to the starter, stator, RR, wiring harness, main fuse, etc.
The smoking happened while cranking to start after sitting for a month, main fuse is fine since then I have only charged the battery and tried to jump it from the Fiat battery all to no avail. It does not turn over or turns over very slowly, bypassing the solenoid has no effect, although I'm pretty sure it will jump start just fine. I'll read the manual, but at this point I think the starter is the issue since bypassing the solenoid going direct to starter has no effect. Manual states: if it won't turn over after bypassing starter relay, starter is bad.
Hopefully you're right & perhaps only the starter may be bad.
Years ago I learned the hard way how using the battery-boost mode on one of my battery chargers while it was connected to the battery in my motorcycle can cause damage. In my case I discovered the stator in my motorcycle was fried after I fired up the reluctant beast this way one cold day.
Also you should avoid cranking the engine w/the starter for more than 5 seconds at a time and allow the starter to have a cooling-off period before trying again.
If testing proves the starter is faulty, a faster and less costly option to ordering and waiting for a replacement unit to arrive may be for you to search for a local company that may specialize in rebuilding starters & alternators. When the starter went bad on one of my vehicles a few years ago I removed the unit and carried it to a local rebuilder who was able to rebuild/repair it in less than a hour while I waited-and for a reasonable price. I've never had any more problems w/the unit since.
[image: View Post]smoothsailin, on 24 May 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:
Hopefully you're right & perhaps only the starter may be bad.
Years ago I learned the hard way how using the battery-boost mode on one of my battery chargers while it was connected to the battery in my motorcycle can cause damage. In my case I discovered the stator in my motorcycle was fried after I fired up the reluctant beast this way one cold day.
Also you should avoid cranking the engine w/the starter for more than 5 seconds at a time and allow the starter to have a cooling-off period before trying again.
If testing proves the starter is faulty, a faster and less costly option to ordering and waiting for a replacement unit to arrive may be for you to search for a local company that may specialize in rebuilding starters & alternators. When the starter went bad on one of my vehicles a few years ago I removed the unit and carried it to a local rebuilder who was able to rebuild/repair it in less than a hour while I waited-and for a reasonable price. I've never had any more problems w/the unit since.
Good luck!
I'm must have cooked the starter cranking it too long, though I am usually intuitive enough not to fry things. Lucky I don't have a boost mode on my charger or I would have used it.
[image: View Post]trjerm, on 24 May 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:
I'd pull the plugs and try it then. And if the starter can spin the engine over with no plugs but with plugs it can't that means it must be the starter? I have a new gel battery that is topped up but still slow or no cranking. The day before it ran great with perfect idle for about 10 miles, when I got home it wouldn't crank over.
[image: View Post]karhawk, on 24 May 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:
[image: View Post]smoothsailin, on 24 May 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:
Hopefully you're right & perhaps only the starter may be bad.
Years ago I learned the hard way how using the battery-boost mode on one of my battery chargers while it was connected to the battery in my motorcycle can cause damage. In my case I discovered the stator in my motorcycle was fried after I fired up the reluctant beast this way one cold day.
Also you should avoid cranking the engine w/the starter for more than 5 seconds at a time and allow the starter to have a cooling-off period before trying again.
If testing proves the starter is faulty, a faster and less costly option to ordering and waiting for a replacement unit to arrive may be for you to search for a local company that may specialize in rebuilding starters & alternators. When the starter went bad on one of my vehicles a few years ago I removed the unit and carried it to a local rebuilder who was able to rebuild/repair it in less than a hour while I waited-and for a reasonable price. I've never had any more problems w/the unit since.
Good luck!
I'm must have cooked the starter cranking it too long, though I am usually intuitive enough not to fry things. Lucky I don't have a boost mode on my charger or I would have used it.
[image: View Post]karhawk, on 26 May 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:
If the starter clutch fails will that cause similar issues?
Starter clutch failure will result in the starter motor spinning (the "vizzzz" noise) but not turning the motor over. Different problem to what you're describing.
In case you don't know what an unloaded starter motor sounds like, you can hear it by pressing the starter button when the bike is running. The sound is quite distinctive.
known good starter, new battery, new relay/solenoid, wires seem good still won't crank
WTF??!! It tries to crank then just clicks. I don't have the side stand light hooked up but that shouldn't matter?
I bought a new gel battery since I didn't know the history of the old one, I found a good starter which turned over the bike I got it from great, 30 bucks, new solenoid, 18 bucks so what the hell is wrong with this thing?
OKOKOK I'm stupid and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything electrical.
Bad ground, I moved the ground wire for the battery to a valve cover bolt, ops rubber gasket precluded a proper ground. Cranks like crazy now!!
Thanks
PS
I have two extra nice used batteries and starters, 20 bucks each