I've had my bike for about 2 months now ('99 VFR800FI) and have had to adjust the chain twice already. (I bought the bike used, with about 58k miles on it, and no idea when the chain/sprockets were last replaced.) Everything I have read indicates that their should be .75 - 1.5 inches of deflection in the chain while on the center stand. Does that sound correct?
The first time I adjusted it to .75 inches and withing a few days (~200 miles) the deflection had gone to 1.5 inches. I let it go for a while, until the chain started hitting the center stand while in the up position, and adjusted it to 1 inch of deflection. Well, after just a couple of days, the chain is already hitting the center stand when in the up position and has enough free play to touch the bottom chain slide on the swing arm.
The chain and sprockets look fine, no visible signs of wear or distortion. Am I performing the adjustments incorrectly, measuring incorrectly, or am I just due for a new chain (and possibly sprockets)?
If you haven't been overtightening it, i.e. it doesn't have much deflection at some point in the chain travel with the bike on the centerstand, then it's time to replace the chain.
After I put on a new, quality (DID or RK) chain it will need to be adjusted after a couple hundred miles or less. After that adjustment, maybe after a few thousand miles it may need to be snugged up a touch. If I have to adjust more than once in a couple thousand miles then I figure the chain is on its way out. A well lubed chain will last around 20,000 miles, or more depending how well lubed it is.
BTW, and I'm sure you know this, it's better to be a bit too loose than a little too tight.
I put mine on the centerstand and push up on the chain. If it is close to underside of the swingarm with a minimum of force, I figure it's good. I may be going about it wrong, but that's the way I do it. I also rotate the wheel and check in multiple places and go by the area with the least amount of slack.
Hmm, OK. I need to more thoroughly check that I don't have any tight spots as i rotate the chain all the way around a full rotation. (I did spot check it, but I think I need to double-check it at more closely measured intervals.) I can very easily push the chain up to touch the bottom of the swing arm, and like I said, it has enough slack to touch the center stand when hanging slack. That seems way too loose to me... Given that a chain is good, I would think that as long as I don't have an out of round condition in the sprockets causing a tight spot, even if I did over tighten a little, the chain would stretch to the slack it needs and stop.
Note that I can't fit my torque wrench on the bearing holder pinch bold so don't know if I'm tightening to exactly 54 lbs-ft, but I'm nearly certain that I'm getting it tight enough to not slip. I'm using the factory supplied tool kit wrench with the extension and putting nearly all the force I can manage (and would guess that if anything, I am over tightening it). (I've been wrenching on cars for many years and have a pretty good feel for approximate torque values when a torque wrench just won't fit.) But just to be sure, I'm going to mark things the next time I adjust it and make sure that's not the problem.
I've had my bike for about 2 months now ('99 VFR800FI) and have had to adjust the chain twice already. (I bought the bike used, with about 58k miles on it, and no idea when the chain/sprockets were last replaced.) Everything I have read indicates that their should be .75 - 1.5 inches of deflection in the chain while on the center stand. Does that sound correct?
The first time I adjusted it to .75 inches and withing a few days (~200 miles) the deflection had gone to 1.5 inches. I let it go for a while, until the chain started hitting the center stand while in the up position, and adjusted it to 1 inch of deflection. Well, after just a couple of days, the chain is already hitting the center stand when in the up position and has enough free play to touch the bottom chain slide on the swing arm.
The chain and sprockets look fine, no visible signs of wear or distortion. Am I performing the adjustments incorrectly, measuring incorrectly, or am I just due for a new chain (and possibly sprockets)?
cheap chain will stretch fast, Good chain hardly ever need to adjust, maybe one to 3 times in its life span
Hmm, OK. I need to more thoroughly check that I don't have any tight spots as i rotate the chain all the way around a full rotation. (I did spot check it, but I think I need to double-check it at more closely measured intervals.) I can very easily push the chain up to touch the bottom of the swing arm, and like I said, it has enough slack to touch the center stand when hanging slack. That seems way too loose to me... Given that a chain is good, I would think that as long as I don't have an out of round condition in the sprockets causing a tight spot, even if I did over tighten a little, the chain would stretch to the slack it needs and stop.
Note that I can't fit my torque wrench on the bearing holder pinch bold so don't know if I'm tightening to exactly 54 lbs-ft, but I'm nearly certain that I'm getting it tight enough to not slip. I'm using the factory supplied tool kit wrench with the extension and putting nearly all the force I can manage (and would guess that if anything, I am over tightening it). (I've been wrenching on cars for many years and have a pretty good feel for approximate torque values when a torque wrench just won't fit.) But just to be sure, I'm going to mark things the next time I adjust it and make sure that's not the problem.
Thats a bolt you really should torque and use a quality tool on, generally if a chain developes tight spots, will will not show stetch, cause the kinking prevents full stetch out of the chain.
58,000 miles, more than likely its atleast had two chains and that one is on the way out.
I can very easily push the chain up to touch the bottom of the swing arm, and like I said, it has enough slack to touch the center stand when hanging slack. That seems way too loose to me... Given that a chain is good, I would think that as long as I don't have an out of round condition in the sprockets causing a tight spot, even if I did over tighten a little, the chain would stretch to the slack it needs and stop.
You may notice when you sit on the bike that the chain no longer hits the center stand. As long as it isn't slapping against the C-stand when riding it should be ok. I keep mine just tight enough to touch the bottom of the swingarm. I've only had to adjust it about once a year.
If the chain is worn, it will need more adjusting.
Clean the chain very good and don't lube it.
Take the bike for a ride.
If there is a lot of clicking and clunking from the chain, it should be replaced.
I can very easily push the chain up to touch the bottom of the swing arm, and like I said, it has enough slack to touch the center stand when hanging slack. That seems way too loose to me... Given that a chain is good, I would think that as long as I don't have an out of round condition in the sprockets causing a tight spot, even if I did over tighten a little, the chain would stretch to the slack it needs and stop.
You may notice when you sit on the bike that the chain no longer hits the center stand. As long as it isn't slapping against the C-stand when riding it should be ok. I keep mine just tight enough to touch the bottom of the swingarm. I've only had to adjust it about once a year.
Thanks for that tip. I'll check and see how close to the c-stand the chain is with weight on the suspension.
Say, if you are in Rocklin we might be neighbors. I live near the Rocklin Thunder HS, how about you?
If the chain is worn, it will need more adjusting.
Clean the chain very good and don't lube it. Take the bike for a ride. If there is a lot of clicking and clunking from the chain, it should be replaced.
Thanks. I'll give that a try and see what things sound like.
I can very easily push the chain up to touch the bottom of the swing arm, and like I said, it has enough slack to touch the center stand when hanging slack. That seems way too loose to me... Given that a chain is good, I would think that as long as I don't have an out of round condition in the sprockets causing a tight spot, even if I did over tighten a little, the chain would stretch to the slack it needs and stop.
You may notice when you sit on the bike that the chain no longer hits the center stand. As long as it isn't slapping against the C-stand when riding it should be ok. I keep mine just tight enough to touch the bottom of the swingarm. I've only had to adjust it about once a year.
Thanks for that tip. I'll check and see how close to the c-stand the chain is with weight on the suspension.
Say, if you are in Rocklin we might be neighbors. I live near the Rocklin Thunder HS, how about you?
Sitting on the patio hearing whatever is going on at the HS stadium tonight as I type. Will send PM.
Hmm, OK. I need to more thoroughly check that I don't have any tight spots as i rotate the chain all the way around a full rotation. (I did spot check it, but I think I need to double-check it at more closely measured intervals.) I can very easily push the chain up to touch the bottom of the swing arm, and like I said, it has enough slack to touch the center stand when hanging slack. That seems way too loose to me... Given that a chain is good, I would think that as long as I don't have an out of round condition in the sprockets causing a tight spot, even if I did over tighten a little, the chain would stretch to the slack it needs and stop.
Note that I can't fit my torque wrench on the bearing holder pinch bold so don't know if I'm tightening to exactly 54 lbs-ft, but I'm nearly certain that I'm getting it tight enough to not slip. I'm using the factory supplied tool kit wrench with the extension and putting nearly all the force I can manage (and would guess that if anything, I am over tightening it). (I've been wrenching on cars for many years and have a pretty good feel for approximate torque values when a torque wrench just won't fit.) But just to be sure, I'm going to mark things the next time I adjust it and make sure that's not the problem.
Thats a bolt you really should torque and use a quality tool on, generally if a chain developes tight spots, will will not show stetch, cause the kinking prevents full stetch out of the chain.
58,000 miles, more than likely its atleast had two chains and that one is on the way out.
I'll have to see if I can get creative with a socket, a flexible extension, and the torque wrench...
Another way to check the condition of the chain is to grasp a link at the 3 o'clock position on the rear sprocket. If you can pull the chain any significant amount away from the sprocket - esp if you can see daylight between chain and sprocket, it's due for replacement.
I've been finding out by going though chains as I learn, that it comes down to when I get a new chain I'll run it about a hundred and check & adjust, then about a 1000m later readjust, and it's good for muti K miles........ and when it start needing adjustment again then it's starting to get to the point of replacement again...........
Lesson learned is loose is better than tight(as mentioned above)...........I stay between 1" to 1 and a quarter inches.......... I check on cs when chain is cool.....
I've been finding out by going though chains as I learn, that it comes down to when I get a new chain I'll run it about a hundred and check & adjust, then about a 1000m later readjust, and it's good for muti K miles........ and when it start needing adjustment again then it's starting to get to the point of replacement again........... Lesson learned is loose is better than tight(as mentioned above)...........I stay between 1" to 1 and a quarter inches.......... I check on cs when chain is cool.....
You dont need an extension, just a 3/8ths torgue wrench and a regular socket, preferably a 6 pointer.
Another way to check the condition of the chain is to grasp a link at the 3 o'clock position on the rear sprocket. If you can pull the chain any significant amount away from the sprocket - esp if you can see daylight between chain and sprocket, it's due for replacement.
OK, I cleaned the chain really well and gave it a whirl and it's relatively quiet. No tight spots as it rotates all the way around. I lubed it up, readjusted it, marked the adjustment point, managed to get my torque wrench on the pinch bolt and tightened it down to spec. I also checked the free play at the 3 o'clock position on the rear sprocket and it does have about 3/16" play, but no daylight between the chain and sprocket. Looks like I'm just about due for a new chain.
Now comes the quandary of changing up the gearing... I use the bike for commuting during the week and pleasure on the weekends, and while I like getting the 45-48 mpg I'm seeing, I would also like a little more low end punch. I'm thinking stock on the front (17t) and plus 2 on the rear (45t)
I have the 17-45 gearing on my "99 and really like it. It does turn a bit faster at highway speeds: about 5900 rpm vs about 5500 rpm at around 70 mph. But the trade-off is worth it IMO. I've changed a few other things so I don't know if the mileage changed any.
You really think the DID VX chain won't be fine for the VFR? I don't know that I would classify any DID chain as "crap". :tour:
I have the DID but don't remember which one I bought. I'm pretty sure I bought the VX and have a little over 16,000 miles on it. I haven't been as good as I should have been with oiling it so another 4,000 miles or so and it will be time to replace it. The stock chain went 19,300 miles, also with less than perfect maintenance.
Thanks FJ12Ryder, That's about the change I was hoping for.
spud786, I thougth all of the DID chains were supposed to be pretty high quality. Is there really a noticable difference bewteen the 3 grades?
Some DID chains are no better than any one elses, Thats why I mentioned the specific chain , either zvm, VM, or Zvmx grade of DID chain. The VX line is a Budget chain, smaller ect. I would not get that myself.
chain has made me a happy rider. It does what I want from a chain.....
Yep, that is the chain I have and it hasn't needed any adjustment with the first 1000 miles. I'm guessing this beast won't stretch much if it is designed for a Hayabusa, ZX14, etc..
Been using a prooiler since I replaced the chain last time and I haven't had to adjust in the 8500 miles since I installed them. I do run it on the loose side if that makes any differance. One of the vey few things that I have found to be better loose than tight...
OK, The recently adjusted chain is already way beyond loose and the pinch bolt/adjustment point didn't budge. It's stretching like there's no tomorrow... So i bit the bullet and ordered a new chain and sprocket set.
530 Steel Sprocket Set w/ Your Choice of Premium D.I.D. 530 X'ring Chain - HONDA VFR 800F1 98-01
-FRONT SPROCKET SIZE: 17 - Stock
-DID 530 CHAIN OPTIONS: DID 530 ZVMX Gold X'ring ($39.00)
-REAR SPROCKET SIZE: 45 ($13.00)
It should be here mid-week and I've already got Friday off work and penciled in as a maintenance day. :-)
Unless those are cheap, Chinese knock-offs or a scam you'd expect to pay approximately:
Good 530 chain=$ 99 to $150
Front sprocket=$25 to $35 Stock front sprocket has less vibration, quieter.
Rear spocket=$48 to $60 Steel rear sprockets are available only in OEM, while alloy variable gearing sprockets last less than half the miles, so will need replacement before the rest.
Rough rule is a top quality OEM chain is good for about 25,000 max, then often get replaced with a cheaper chain that wears faster and needs more adjustment.
You can save money on the parts but it takes time to find the best deals for the best quality parts on the day you're ready to order.
Unless those are cheap, Chinese knock-offs or a scam you'd expect to pay approximately:
Good 530 chain=$ 99 to $150
Front sprocket=$25 to $35 Stock front sprocket has less vibration, quieter.
Rear spocket=$48 to $60 Steel rear sprockets are available only in OEM, while alloy variable gearing sprockets last less than half the miles, so will need replacement before the rest.
Rough rule is a top quality OEM chain is good for about 25,000 max, then often get replaced with a cheaper chain that wears faster and needs more adjustment.
You can save money on the parts but it takes time to find the best deals for the best quality parts on the day you're ready to order.
LOL, sorry for the confusion. Those prices would be way too good to be true... but are the amounts above the standard package price. The total for my order, with tax and free shipping, was ~$265.
(Hmm, multi-quote didn't work like I figured it would... That was directed to the last 3 posts. Thanks to spud786 and vfrcapn, and everyone else that recommended the chain upgrade, too!)
32000 miles later and this chain is just about done. I have one link that seems to have lost an X ring and is worn and very sloppy, and several other links that are rather stiff. The rear sprocket still looks great, but I haven't taken a look at the front yet. If the front still looks good can I just replace the chain, or should I assume there is enough wear to merit replacing everything together?
If replacing everything is in order, I'm thinking of doing a 320 conversion, keeping the 17t front and 45t rear sprocket ratio, as I really like the way the bike feels with this set up. How much of a difference does the 320 conversion really make? Can it be felt in the seat of the pants?
Somewhere I saw a photo where a worn chain was laid out next to a new chain (same # of links). The difference in length was amazing (multiple inches). The sprockets have been wearing to the now longer distance between each link, even if it's not readily visible. IMHO to get the most service life from the new chain replace everything as a set - especially if one's paying up for a top quality chain. YMMV.
I don't usually recommend replacing the sprockets when you replace the chain, but with that many miles I'd make an exception. Unless you've been using some kind of chain oiler, like a Scottoiler. I usually change out my chain 20,000-25,000 miles and use the same sprockets. I think if you overlaid your sprocket with a new one you'd be surprised at the wear. JMO of course.
I usually adjust it once after the initial installation and it stays close enough for nearly the life of the chain. Maybe on more adjustment about 10k miles. I buy a premium chain like DID lube and clean it fairly regularly and they last as long as I would expect them to with out much if any adjustment. A little loose is alright in my book. So if it looks right at cleaning time, I lube it and it check it again after the lube sets up. My opinion is a properly installed and maintained quality chain shouldn't need a lot of re adjustment.
I just did mine last month at 30K...for the price of the sprockets I'd go ahead and replace. Sprocket Center sprocketcenter.com had outstanding service, can't recommend them enough. The 17/45 gold 530 kit came out to $200 with tax, and you can select the chain brand you want.
I'm guessing you mean the 520 conversion? I did that previously and there was no performance difference that I noticed. I did only get about 13K-14K miles out of that chain before it was toast, the 530 usu. get's me about 25K miles, little more this time.
I've put 26,000 miles on mine in the past year & a half & haven't had to adjust it yet. Depends largely on the brand of chain & your maintenance regime.
Usually son after installation I have to adjust mine... then maybe evey 15,000 km... but one should resist the temptation to tighten overzealously... a slightly loose chain will last umpteen more miles than a slightly overtight one. That's an old school rule that's still good as gold.
Well a couple of things for this old thread, one all chains wear, unsealed ones wear faster, ones left dirty all the time wear faster. X-ring is the best compromise for wear verses drag.
ALWAYS replace sprockets when fitting a new chain, always buy 2 front & 1 rear sprocket if steel, or 2 rear alloy & 1 front steel. The reason is to balance out the wear, think STD gearing 17/43 or 16/43 means the front sprocket receives a chain link 2.5-2.6 times as often as the rear, then consider the front sprocket has a tighter radius, so puts more strain on each tooth than the rear thus wears significantly faster than the rear.
When I was courier we would replace the front whilst turning the rear over, this kept the chain hitting good shaped teeth longer. We only used unsealed 530 chains back then, as they were cleaned/lubed everyday.
To measure wear, try to lift the chain off the rear sprocket, a new chain on new sprockets will hardly move, but once worn the amount of lift increases, if you can see daylight between 3 or more rollers & the teeth on the sprocket, the chain is quite worn.
PS, good quality 520 chain is more than adequate for the VFR, yes it will need replacing more often, but as a strength/distance compromise I use 525 chain and sprockets.
I don't agree with the "ALWAYS replace sprockets when fitting a new chain" theory. Also I don't agree that front sprockets wear faster than rear sprockets. I've run many, many bikes that have had to have the rear sprockets replaced several times and front sprocket was never replaced. Of course this was back before O-ring chains, and we ran 520 chain. Those chains only lasted about 10,000 miles if you oiled them religiously. Usually quite a bit less.
This is just from my experience, and of course YMMV. Literally. :beer:
OK, looks like the consensus is that replacing everything together is the best way to go. I am really happy with the number of miles I got out of this chain and sprocket set, and I know that vfrcapn and I ride our bikes in a similar fassion. If the 320 setup only good for 13-14k miles, I'm going to stick with the DID 530 ZVMX. Thanks for the input everyone.
Most cases the fronts do where faster than the rear, even though they are normally hardened steel, and that's why they are hardened steel to increase life. Rear steel sprockets are normally not Hardened steel in comparison, but last about 5 times longer than an aluminum, Actually, if you cut metal to metal contact of the sprocket teeth with heavy film strength, a steel rear may last near a lifetime. Normally the front will require more turn over. Your not going to beat the oem vfr sprockets life wise.
Interesting thread. My '86 has original chain and sprockets at 39K mi. I do lube it Obsessively. Mostly with gear lube until recently a wax based spray. Less mess. Chain is within specks. Will likely consider replacement after reading this.
Interesting thread. My '86 has original chain and sprockets at 39K mi. I do lube it Obsessively. Mostly with gear lube until recently a wax based spray. Less mess. Chain is within specks. Will likely consider replacement after reading this.
I've got 32K miles on the OEM chain and sprockets on my 6th Gen. I bought replacements, but the originals aren't done yet.
I'm pretty good about keeping the chain clean and lubed, but was really surprized to see how long this chain lasted. I commute with the bike almost daily and try to clean and lube after every 3rd or 4th tank of gas but there have been times when it would go longer. Since I wasn't "religous" about it I figured I'd get 20 or 25 thousand miles out of the chain/sprocket set. I also use 90w gear oil, and yes it's stinky and messy, but it appears to work pretty well. Other than the 90w gear oil, I occasionally use a spray chain lube, and clean things up with WD40. What are folks that don't have a pro-oiler (or similar) using to get such long life?
The lube I use is not legal for sale in California, so wouldn't do you any good. But you need something that will build a Heavy lasting film base on the sprocket teeth, if you can see the metal teeth, then the film base is inadequate to eliminate metal to metal contact. Also the lube needs to stay fluid, so all the little chain rollers spin freely, unlike waxes that clogg up the whole chain up.
Ive bought two cans of chain wax in my life, once in the 80's and once in the 2000's. I forgot Id bought the first can , but then remembered what crap it was. Still have both cans to this day.
I wipe the chain with a dry rag and lube with Dupont Chain Saver every 500 miles. (Or after washing or riding in the rain.) About once per season, I clean it with Dupont Motorcycle Chain Cleaner/Degreaser.
I use 90W-140 gear lube out of a Zoom Spout about every tank of gas. I just wipe the chain down each tim with a rag or paper towel. I can only remember using a bit of WD40 on it a time or two. It stays amazingly clean - the oil seems to take the dirt with it. If I'm on multi-day trips I take along some disposable latex gloves for the job.
That's what I use: 90W-140 gear lube through the Hawke Oiler. You're right, it keeps the chain lubed and clean, wish the same could be said for the rear wheel. But at least it cleans up easily.
End of thread · 50 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 2 Mar 2015