Just installed a power commander 5 with 02 eliminators last night... she runs like crap now. Idle is very rough and has dropped to sub 1000, throttle response is not nearly as crisp, there is backfiring on hard throttle roll-off, low rpm stutter seems worse. Bike is an '08, with 10k miles. Stock air filter with Leo Vince SBK's, no baffles, and pair system disabled. Prior to installing the PCV, my bike ran pretty good with what I would consider to be very minor fueling issues at low RPM, Vtech transition has never really bothered me. I figured if I could remedy those low rpm woes, it would be a good upgrade, but I am starting to wonder if I should have just left well enough alone. The map I am using is the M16-005-004 map, downloaded from this website. This particular map was originally offered by Dynojet for my exact setup, but has since been removed from their website for reasons unknown to me. Having absolutely no experience with PC, I have a few questions...
1. Does anyone know why the M16-005-004 map was removed from Dynojet's website, is it flawed?
2. Is there some sort of calibration period that happens after altering the fuel map that will occur as I put more miles on her?
3. When I hooked up the ground wire to the battery, I kept the neg cable in contact with the battery terminal so I wouldn't loose my clock and trip meter info. Was this a mistake... does the bike need to "reset" for a PC install?
4. For all the downloads of maps from this site, there aren't many reviews. Can anyone recommend a better map to use for Leo Vince on an '08?
5. Has anyone else had trouble with this map?
Any other ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Try a different map for stock filter and slipon and see what happens. Unless you get it tuned on a dyno, the maps are all approximate anyway. On my 5th gen, I tried two different maps from their website and it made all the difference in the world. They were both maps for aftermarket filter and slipon, but one was for regular gas and one for premium. The regular fuel map was great but the premium fuel map gave horrible off-idle throttle response.
Sounds like a shitty situation. You should just send the dang thing to me and I'll deal with all the excess hassle. :-)
Well, if I can't make it run better than stock, the PCV will be showing up in the classifieds in the coming weeks... keep your eyes peeled.
Try a different map for stock filter and slipon and see what happens. Unless you get it tuned on a dyno, the maps are all approximate anyway. On my 5th gen, I tried two different maps from their website and it made all the difference in the world. They were both maps for aftermarket filter and slipon, but one was for regular gas and one for premium. The regular fuel map was great but the premium fuel map gave horrible off-idle throttle response.
That's the plan this weekend, I was really hoping someone could recommend a map for an '08 since most of the discussions seem to relate to the earlier models.
Try a different map for stock filter and slipon and see what happens. Unless you get it tuned on a dyno, the maps are all approximate anyway. On my 5th gen, I tried two different maps from their website and it made all the difference in the world. They were both maps for aftermarket filter and slipon, but one was for regular gas and one for premium. The regular fuel map was great but the premium fuel map gave horrible off-idle throttle response.
Basically this. Though you don't have to take it to a shop if you have a PC and are willing to play around with the maps yourself but the shops have the advantage of experience and getting it done faster. Just be prepared for a couple hours of tuning and that usually runs $80+ an hour unless you have a friend working there.
This is why I have the 1200 booked in for some dyno and bazzaz install in August. Should be fun but will cost some cashola. I think if I keep the bike for 3 or 4 years it will be worth it and help sort out some of my issues.
Just installed a power commander 5 with 02 eliminators last night... she runs like crap now. Idle is very rough and has dropped to sub 1000, throttle response is not nearly as crisp, there is backfiring on hard throttle roll-off, low rpm stutter seems worse. Bike is an '08, with 10k miles. Stock air filter with Leo Vince SBK's, no baffles, and pair system disabled. Prior to installing the PCV, my bike ran pretty good with what I would consider to be very minor fueling issues at low RPM, Vtech transition has never really bothered me. I figured if I could remedy those low rpm woes, it would be a good upgrade, but I am starting to wonder if I should have just left well enough alone. The map I am using is the M16-005-004 map, downloaded from this website. This particular map was originally offered by Dynojet for my exact setup, but has since been removed from their website for reasons unknown to me. Having absolutely no experience with PC, I have a few questions...
1. Does anyone know why the M16-005-004 map was removed from Dynojet's website, is it flawed? 2. Is there some sort of calibration period that happens after altering the fuel map that will occur as I put more miles on her? 3. When I hooked up the ground wire to the battery, I kept the neg cable in contact with the battery terminal so I wouldn't loose my clock and trip meter info. Was this a mistake... does the bike need to "reset" for a PC install? 4. For all the downloads of maps from this site, there aren't many reviews. Can anyone recommend a better map to use for Leo Vince on an '08? 5. Has anyone else had trouble with this map?
Any other ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading!
Check your o2 eliminators, there is a batch of eliminators with the resisters the wrong way around, hopefully yours are ok. Don't mess about with different maps, get your bike on a dyno, and get a tailor made map to suit your set up.
Try a different map for stock filter and slipon and see what happens. Unless you get it tuned on a dyno, the maps are all approximate anyway. On my 5th gen, I tried two different maps from their website and it made all the difference in the world. They were both maps for aftermarket filter and slipon, but one was for regular gas and one for premium. The regular fuel map was great but the premium fuel map gave horrible off-idle throttle response.
Basically this. Though you don't have to take it to a shop if you have a PC and are willing to play around with the maps yourself but the shops have the advantage of experience and getting it done faster. Just be prepared for a couple hours of tuning and that usually runs $80+ an hour unless you have a friend working there.
I hear ya. My bike ran well enough without the PC, I doubt I'd waste any more time or money to dyno-tune it. I'll try a few more of the available maps and go back to the stock setup if no improvement is felt.
This is why I have the 1200 booked in for some dyno and bazzaz install in August. Should be fun but will cost some cashola. I think if I keep the bike for 3 or 4 years it will be worth it and help sort out some of my issues.
Sounds like the 1200 can probably benefit more from this process than an '08. I am wondering if maybe there were some unbeknownst tuning to the factory mapping on the later models. Maybe this is why I am seeing a drop in performance??? Who can say.
Just installed a power commander 5 with 02 eliminators last night... she runs like crap now. Idle is very rough and has dropped to sub 1000, throttle response is not nearly as crisp, there is backfiring on hard throttle roll-off, low rpm stutter seems worse. Bike is an '08, with 10k miles. Stock air filter with Leo Vince SBK's, no baffles, and pair system disabled. Prior to installing the PCV, my bike ran pretty good with what I would consider to be very minor fueling issues at low RPM, Vtech transition has never really bothered me. I figured if I could remedy those low rpm woes, it would be a good upgrade, but I am starting to wonder if I should have just left well enough alone. The map I am using is the M16-005-004 map, downloaded from this website. This particular map was originally offered by Dynojet for my exact setup, but has since been removed from their website for reasons unknown to me. Having absolutely no experience with PC, I have a few questions...
1. Does anyone know why the M16-005-004 map was removed from Dynojet's website, is it flawed?
2. Is there some sort of calibration period that happens after altering the fuel map that will occur as I put more miles on her?
3. When I hooked up the ground wire to the battery, I kept the neg cable in contact with the battery terminal so I wouldn't loose my clock and trip meter info. Was this a mistake... does the bike need to "reset" for a PC install?
4. For all the downloads of maps from this site, there aren't many reviews. Can anyone recommend a better map to use for Leo Vince on an '08?
5. Has anyone else had trouble with this map?
Any other ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading!
Check your o2 eliminators, there is a batch of eliminators with the resisters the wrong way around, hopefully yours are ok. Don't mess about with different maps, get your bike on a dyno, and get a tailor made map to suit your set up.
Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by "the resistor may be the wrong way around". I've never heard of a resistor that is dependent on correct polarity for installation.
Try a different map for stock filter and slipon and see what happens. Unless you get it tuned on a dyno, the maps are all approximate anyway. On my 5th gen, I tried two different maps from their website and it made all the difference in the world. They were both maps for aftermarket filter and slipon, but one was for regular gas and one for premium. The regular fuel map was great but the premium fuel map gave horrible off-idle throttle response.
Basically this. Though you don't have to take it to a shop if you have a PC and are willing to play around with the maps yourself but the shops have the advantage of experience and getting it done faster. Just be prepared for a couple hours of tuning and that usually runs $80+ an hour unless you have a friend working there.
I hear ya. My bike ran well enough without the PC, I doubt I'd waste any more time or money to dyno-tune it. I'll try a few more of the available maps and go back to the stock setup if no improvement is felt.
This is why I have the 1200 booked in for some dyno and bazzaz install in August. Should be fun but will cost some cashola. I think if I keep the bike for 3 or 4 years it will be worth it and help sort out some of my issues.
Sounds like the 1200 can probably benefit more from this process than an '08. I am wondering if maybe there were some unbeknownst tuning to the factory mapping on the later models. Maybe this is why I am seeing a drop in performance??? Who can say.
Just installed a power commander 5 with 02 eliminators last night... she runs like crap now. Idle is very rough and has dropped to sub 1000, throttle response is not nearly as crisp, there is backfiring on hard throttle roll-off, low rpm stutter seems worse. Bike is an '08, with 10k miles. Stock air filter with Leo Vince SBK's, no baffles, and pair system disabled. Prior to installing the PCV, my bike ran pretty good with what I would consider to be very minor fueling issues at low RPM, Vtech transition has never really bothered me. I figured if I could remedy those low rpm woes, it would be a good upgrade, but I am starting to wonder if I should have just left well enough alone. The map I am using is the M16-005-004 map, downloaded from this website. This particular map was originally offered by Dynojet for my exact setup, but has since been removed from their website for reasons unknown to me. Having absolutely no experience with PC, I have a few questions...
1. Does anyone know why the M16-005-004 map was removed from Dynojet's website, is it flawed? 2. Is there some sort of calibration period that happens after altering the fuel map that will occur as I put more miles on her? 3. When I hooked up the ground wire to the battery, I kept the neg cable in contact with the battery terminal so I wouldn't loose my clock and trip meter info. Was this a mistake... does the bike need to "reset" for a PC install? 4. For all the downloads of maps from this site, there aren't many reviews. Can anyone recommend a better map to use for Leo Vince on an '08? 5. Has anyone else had trouble with this map?
Any other ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading!
Check your o2 eliminators, there is a batch of eliminators with the resisters the wrong way around, hopefully yours are ok. Don't mess about with different maps, get your bike on a dyno, and get a tailor made map to suit your set up.
Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by "the resistor may be the wrong way around". I've never heard of a resistor that is dependent on correct polarity for installation.
The correct way is across the two green dots of the o2 eliminator, there was a batch where the resister went across the two orange dots
I am also wondering if environmental conditions are affecting what is happening. Seems like most of the tweaks in these maps are to enrich the fuel mixture. I am at higher elevation, maybe there is not sufficient oxygen levels to support the fuel enrichment. Also, all of the gas available in my area is 10% ethanol regardless of octane rating. Could that be a contributing factor as well... maybe.
When I first installed my PCIII, I downloaded a map from the Leo Vince website. Terrible flat spot before VTEC transition and terrible fuel mileage! Then I thought, "I just spent a bunch of money to make the VFR run better, but it runs worse. Maybe a custom map from a dynotuner who has experience with the 6th Gen will improve things."
When I first installed my PCIII, I downloaded a map from the Leo Vince website. Terrible flat spot before VTEC transition and terrible fuel mileage! Then I thought, "I just spent a bunch of money to make the VFR run better, but it runs worse. Maybe a custom map from a dynotuner who has experience with the 6th Gen will improve things."
It did.
I think the key to your statement is " a custom map from a dynotuner who has experience with 6th gen". I wouldn't have the first clue on where to find such a person.
Thanks to all for taking the time to post your insights, I do appreciate it. I think I will also relay the specific questions in my first post to Dynojet's support staff since they are best equipped to answer them.
On another note; On the way home this afternoon, still using the m16-005-004 map, I had the opportunity to open it up and get into the v-tech engagement . It definitely is a smoother transition, couldn't feel it at all. I'm not sure if I like that though, I've always enjoyed the boost feeling when it kicks in. Wouldn't ya know it, now its raining and I am going to have to wait to test it with a different map. Think I am going to try Dynojet's M16-005-001 map next. This is for a bone stock 6th gen VFR. Since I had pretty good performance with Honda's stock map, maybe this one will work better for my situation.
There have been some very valid points made by everyone. I totally get that a dyno-tune by an experienced tuner is going to be much more accurate than simply borrowing someone else's map. If I had a recommendation of a good tuner in Colorado, I'd consider it... but that is not the case. The only Dynojet "authorized tuning centers" in my area are powersports dealerships. I don't have any confidence that the service dept at my local dealer is going to spend the time to do the job right, much less have experience with the nuances of the VTECH design. Fortunately, I don't race my bike, I can live with a map that isn't perfect. Its my commuter/tourer/weekend toy. I was simply trying to cleanup the lower rpm herky jerkies which has happened with a rather generic map.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your insights!
Namaste Bitches :biggrin:
You can get a recommendation for a good tuner by riding up to a group of sportbike riders having a smoke/rest break and asking them.
No I haven't, simply because they don't typically work on Japanese bikes, but it might be worth talking with them. Thanks for the info!
You can get a recommendation for a good tuner by riding up to a group of sportbike riders having a smoke/rest break and asking them.
The impression I have gotten from most VFR riders is that the VTECH is a pretty unique beast that needs someone who thoroughly understands its nuances to properly tune it. Is this not the case, can just anyone with a Dyno hook me up?
Tell the dynotuner to map your bike like the blue line (custom), not the red line (the last online map I tried before I wised up and went to a dynotuner).
Thought I'd post an update as I have had more opportunity to try some different things. I am now using the M16-005-003 map (Dynojets staintune map) with some minor tweaks. I have determined that the fuel enrichment of most of these maps is just too much for the elevation I live and ride at. So, I have been experimenting keeping the same curve that is there, but I reduce the positive values by about 30%. I leave the negative numbers at their original values. I have done this up to the point of V-Tech activation. At 7000 rpm I reduced the values by 50 %. At 7500, I reduce by 70%, and then I use the Honda values from 8000 on up, since my bike has always drove great at higher RPMs with the base map. So far, it seems to be driving much smoother. I am amazed at how much smoother my shifts are. I always felt that my shift technique was poor due to the harshness, but now I am shifting effortlessly and it is noticeably smooth and enjoyable! :biggrin: Unless I come across some master guru VFR tuner in Co, I am probably going to forego the Dyno-tune and stick with this set up. I'd love to hear what others are using who ride at higher elevations.
I have an 06 with Leo Vinces and a PCV and used this map
http://www.vfrdiscus...for-an-06-vtec/
Eliminated the low end stumbling and evened out the power band nicely without much gas mileage change. Short of a custom Dynotune, it pays to try different maps and see what works best. It is so easy to switch them that eventually you will find the best fit.
I have an 06 with Leo Vinces and a PCV and used this map
http://www.vfrdiscus...for-an-06-vtec/
Eliminated the low end stumbling and evened out the power band nicely without much gas mileage change. Short of a custom Dynotune, it pays to try different maps and see what works best. It is so easy to switch them that eventually you will find the best fit.
I am sorry if I am out of line, but with online maps and your VFR you are trying to hit the bulls eye of a dartboard from 25 feet - blindfolded. This is based on my experience with a PC III and online maps followed by a dynotune. You won't believe the difference in smoothness/rideability with a custom map. But I suspect not very many would agree with me.
Before you put your PCV on eBay or Craigslist, remember that Dynojet is not concerned about how your bike runs but is concerned about whether your bike blows up. It wants to play safe, so it provides a rich map because being too rich will at most make your bike run like crap (which it did) but being too lean can cause damage to the engine.
I have a very similar setup to yours, '08 with Leo Vince slip-ons, K&N air filter and PAIR disabled. I installed PCV in Feb this year and did all the necessary calibration to enable tune-by-gear (i.e. separate map for each gear). I then used Coderighter's map (can be downloaded from this website) which improved my ride significantly. But since there are some differences between our setups, and I wanted to avoid paying a dyno shop, I subsequently bought the Autotune module and let it tune my bike as I ride. So far I have been very satisfied with both the PCV and the Autotune, and I am kicking myself for not getting them earlier.
There are a few threads on this topic, so make sure you read them carefully first. You have a very good tool for making your ride better. You just need the right map.
A Power Commander is not a slip-on or a K&N, it needs to be setup by an expert. Don't listen to these guys who use other peoples tunes and auto-tune, they just have themselves convinced their bikes are running better to justify the expenditure. Do your purchase justice and have it done right. Buying one of these does not make your bike run better, it gives you the option of spending more money to make it run better.
A Power Commander is not a slip-on or a K&N, it needs to be setup by an expert. Don't listen to these guys who use other peoples tunes and auto-tune, they just have themselves convinced their bikes are running better to justify the expenditure. Do your purchase justice and have it done right. Buying one of these does not make your bike run better, it gives you the option of spending more money to make it run better.
Totally agree that a PC is not a slip-on or a K&N. However, I disagree with your remark on using other people's maps and Autotune. That comment on "convincing ourselves" to "justify the expenditure" is really uncalled for.
Nobody would disagree that the "best" way of tuning a bike's fueling is to send it to a professional dyno tuner. But TS already said he doesn't want to pay for a dyno tune. The closest he can get would be to find the map of a tuned bike which has the same setup as him. You can say that every bike is different, but the difference would be much smaller than if TS used the really generic maps provided by Dynojet. He can get perhaps 70% of the benefits for free. That is far better than letting his bike run like crap on the Dynojet map or selling a perfectly fine piece of hardware.
The Autotune works similarly as a dyno tuner. It constantly adjusts fueling to achieve the desired AFR. If you have ever been to a dyno shop, the tuner would do a full throttle run, look at the power output and lambda sensor readout, adjust, rinse and repeat. I doubt he would do it for every gear, 10 throttle positions per gear, every 250 rpm. So theoretically the Autotune is more precise and meticulous than most dyno tuners. The only issue is that you need to know what the desired AFR is. That is very subjective and it is not easy to gauge the improvements. For all-out performance, you will need to use the dyno to measure the power output. For fuel efficiency though, you can simply adjust the AFR table and measure how far you go with one tank.
Let's keep this discussion constructive and friendly. Cheers.
A Power Commander is not a slip-on or a K&N, it needs to be setup by an expert. Don't listen to these guys who use other peoples tunes and auto-tune, they just have themselves convinced their bikes are running better to justify the expenditure. Do your purchase justice and have it done right. Buying one of these does not make your bike run better, it gives you the option of spending more money to make it run better.
Totally agree that a PC is not a slip-on or a K&N. However, I disagree with your remark on using other people's maps and Autotune. That comment on "convincing ourselves" to "justify the expenditure" is really uncalled for.
Nobody would disagree that the "best" way of tuning a bike's fueling is to send it to a professional dyno tuner. But TS already said he doesn't want to pay for a dyno tune. The closest he can get would be to find the map of a tuned bike which has the same setup as him. You can say that every bike is different, but the difference would be much smaller than if TS used the really generic maps provided by Dynojet. He can get perhaps 70% of the benefits for free. That is far better than letting his bike run like crap on the Dynojet map or selling a perfectly fine piece of hardware.
The Autotune works similarly as a dyno tuner. It constantly adjusts fueling to achieve the desired AFR. If you have ever been to a dyno shop, the tuner would do a full throttle run, look at the power output and lambda sensor readout, adjust, rinse and repeat. I doubt he would do it for every gear, 10 throttle positions per gear, every 250 rpm. So theoretically the Autotune is more precise and meticulous than most dyno tuners. The only issue is that you need to know what the desired AFR is. That is very subjective and it is not easy to gauge the improvements. For all-out performance, you will need to use the dyno to measure the power output. For fuel efficiency though, you can simply adjust the AFR table and measure how far you go with one tank.
Let's keep this discussion constructive and friendly. Cheers.
Your opinion may be that my comment was uncalled for, but you may be a guy who owns a PC that has never been tuned properly. The comment is not to offend, its to knock some sense into the people that are considering buying these things and don't want to spend the money for a proper tune. Its a waste of money to buy it and not use it to its potential, and let your bike run like crap. I'm trying to help people here.. And not get sucked in to buying something they have absolutely no need for, mostly because everyone else has one.. "So I need one too!"
I don't know what tuners or shops you hang around, but auto-tune is a straight up hack job and will NOT be better than the factory tune unless your motor is heavily modified, the technology may be impressive, but thats not saying much for what you pay vs what you get. Targeting a specific AFR is NOT how you tune something properly, you only target AFRs at WOT. No tuner worth his weight needs to tune anything in more than one gear. Also, being sampled and adjusted every 250rpm is not a function of auto-tune, thats just the resolution of the tuning module, so anybody that tuned it, qualified or not, would have to set a number every 250rpm.
If I've offended you or anyone else, I apologize. I'm still not gonna sugar coat things, though.. You agree that dyno-tuning is the best option. So why settle for 'good enough'? You dropped all that money on a PC, why not drop some money on a good tune? I wish I had a good analogy to get my point across, but I don't.. I can say this, i'm willing to bet if anyone using someone else' tune went and had their bikes tuned by a competent and reputable shop, they'd be kicking themselves in the rear for not doing it sooner.
There have been some very valid points made by everyone. I totally get that a dyno-tune by an experienced tuner is going to be much more accurate than simply borrowing someone else's map. If I had a recommendation of a good tuner in Colorado, I'd consider it... but that is not the case. The only Dynojet "authorized tuning centers" in my area are powersports dealerships. I don't have any confidence that the service dept at my local dealer is going to spend the time to do the job right, much less have experience with the nuances of the VTECH design. Fortunately, I don't race my bike, I can live with a map that isn't perfect. Its my commuter/tourer/weekend toy. I was simply trying to cleanup the lower rpm herky jerkies which has happened with a rather generic map.
LOL at inappropriate.. I don't think there was any hostility in the statement, and that word by itself, while used in that context, wouldn't even raise an eyebrow on the disney channel..
Just Keep an ear open and ask around a little when you are around other bike guys, Willie. I'm sure theres a decent tuner somewhere half-way close to you. Like I said before, if you can find somebody that knows what they are doing, you will truly be impressed with the results. I've got a local friend here in WNC thats a nationally accredited engine tuner for just about every engine management system under the sun. He mainly does cages, but engines are engines and he does a few turbo bikes here and there too. Its just amazing how things run after he works his magic on them, man. And I'll be the first to tell you that he usually uses a map from a different setup thats similar, BUT, he uses that as a basemap to get close and then fine tunes things. Which is necessity because I've seen him use a race winning map on an identical setup and have it run like balls until it gets dialed in. Even with the exact same motor that was made in the same year and in the same model, it can just run a lot differently, there are so many variables.
Anyway, just wanted to give by opinion, wasn't trying to hurt any feelings, I just like to see people get what they pay for, and have the most enjoyment out of their machine, because thats what its all about, unless the hokie pokie is what its all about? In which case I'm gonna go dance..
I am installing the Bazzaz PCI, which is their version of the Power Commander, but will not do it until I have time booked on the dyno to set it up properly. In my mind 300 for the device and then 150 to 400 for tuning is very valuable and will pay for itself with smoothness, decreased lurching off the line, and possible better fuel economy. If I can not get the time on the dyno or decide to live with the stock mapping, I will just sell it on EBay.
A Power Commander is not a slip-on or a K&N, it needs to be setup by an expert. Don't listen to these guys who use other peoples tunes and auto-tune, they just have themselves convinced their bikes are running better to justify the expenditure. Do your purchase justice and have it done right. Buying one of these does not make your bike run better, it gives you the option of spending more money to make it run better.
Totally agree that a PC is not a slip-on or a K&N. However, I disagree with your remark on using other people's maps and Autotune. That comment on "convincing ourselves" to "justify the expenditure" is really uncalled for.
Nobody would disagree that the "best" way of tuning a bike's fueling is to send it to a professional dyno tuner. But TS already said he doesn't want to pay for a dyno tune. The closest he can get would be to find the map of a tuned bike which has the same setup as him. You can say that every bike is different, but the difference would be much smaller than if TS used the really generic maps provided by Dynojet. He can get perhaps 70% of the benefits for free. That is far better than letting his bike run like crap on the Dynojet map or selling a perfectly fine piece of hardware.
The Autotune works similarly as a dyno tuner. It constantly adjusts fueling to achieve the desired AFR. If you have ever been to a dyno shop, the tuner would do a full throttle run, look at the power output and lambda sensor readout, adjust, rinse and repeat. I doubt he would do it for every gear, 10 throttle positions per gear, every 250 rpm. So theoretically the Autotune is more precise and meticulous than most dyno tuners. The only issue is that you need to know what the desired AFR is. That is very subjective and it is not easy to gauge the improvements. For all-out performance, you will need to use the dyno to measure the power output. For fuel efficiency though, you can simply adjust the AFR table and measure how far you go with one tank.
Let's keep this discussion constructive and friendly. Cheers.
Your opinion may be that my comment was uncalled for, but you may be a guy who owns a PC that has never been tuned properly. The comment is not to offend, its to knock some sense into the people that are considering buying these things and don't want to spend the money for a proper tune. Its a waste of money to buy it and not use it to its potential, and let your bike run like crap. I'm trying to help people here.. And not get sucked in to buying something they have absolutely no need for, mostly because everyone else has one.. "So I need one too!"
I don't know what tuners or shops you hang around, but auto-tune is a straight up hack job and will NOT be better than the factory tune unless your motor is heavily modified, the technology may be impressive, but thats not saying much for what you pay vs what you get. Targeting a specific AFR is NOT how you tune something properly, you only target AFRs at WOT. No tuner worth his weight needs to tune anything in more than one gear. Also, being sampled and adjusted every 250rpm is not a function of auto-tune, thats just the resolution of the tuning module, so anybody that tuned it, qualified or not, would have to set a number every 250rpm.
If I've offended you or anyone else, I apologize. I'm still not gonna sugar coat things, though.. You agree that dyno-tuning is the best option. So why settle for 'good enough'? You dropped all that money on a PC, why not drop some money on a good tune? I wish I had a good analogy to get my point across, but I don't.. I can say this, i'm willing to bet if anyone using someone else' tune went and had their bikes tuned by a competent and reputable shop, they'd be kicking themselves in the rear for not doing it sooner.
No offence taken. It is always good to see both sides of the coin.
From a purely technical point of view, why is it you only need to hit target AFRs at WOT? Do you not care about smaller throttle openings, where we spend 90% of our time at?
The engine performs independently from the gears, so tuning the engine should have nothing to do with gear positions. However, the problem lies in implementation. What we want is the optimal, "tuned" fuel map for every gear. However what Power Commander does is to put a "delta map" on top of the "base map" to achieve what you desire. Modern ECUs, such as the one in 06+ VFRs, have a fuel map for each gear position. Therefore we need a different "delta map" for each gear in order to hit that same result.
Unfortunately I have little confidence in the local tuner shops. They charge different prices for a "basic tune" and an "advanced tune", but refuse to tell me exactly what's the difference between the two. To me, a proper dyno tune is just that, why are there "basic" and "advanced" levels? Plus the prices are much higher than the Autotune, which is why I decided to give the gadget a chance.
how do you tune a bike for premium fuel, with only fuel mapping and no ignition mapping changes?
You don't.
I am also wondering if environmental conditions are affecting what is happening. Seems like most of the tweaks in these maps are to enrich the fuel mixture. I am at higher elevation, maybe there is not sufficient oxygen levels to support the fuel enrichment. Also, all of the gas available in my area is 10% ethanol regardless of octane rating. Could that be a contributing factor as well... maybe.
No, because the Power Commander is merely an offset from the instructions received by the ECU. The ECU determines fuel mixture based on the MAP sensor (at part throttle anyway), which is a measure of Manifold Absolute Pressure - this ensures that the ECU alters fuelling for altitude. The Power Commander then merely tweaks that fuelling to make it a little bit more or a little bit less (depending on your map).
Alterations to fuelling by the Power Commander do not change or affect the Manifold Absolute Pressure, so the Powercommander cannot affect MAP sensor readings.
I am sorry if I am out of line, but with online maps and your VFR you are trying to hit the bulls eye of a dartboard from 25 feet - blindfolded. This is based on my experience with a PC III and online maps followed by a dynotune. You won't believe the difference in smoothness/rideability with a custom map. But I suspect not very many would agree with me.
They should agree with you, because you're dead right. Lots of folks have tried to replace an expert dyno tuner by buying an Autotune module, but this time you don't even know what to aim at because the Air/Fuel Ratio is your target and there's no way to know what the target should be unless you're measuring power output at the time you set the target - which just happens to require a dyno!
sorry for being lazy and not reading this whole thing, but did the op try out a zero map to make sure that its not just a defective pc or installed incorrectly?
End of thread · 38 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 1 Nov 2013