Hi
after upgrading to after market Suspension (front springs and rear NITRO).. find my bike suspension height off !
Can some one measure the OEM heights as in the picture - will use that as a base and then move accordingly.
thanks
[image: VFR800 suspension height]This help ?
not really (already have this) but thanks
that is exactly what has happened ...
* rear shocks have adjustable height - so it was at the longest. my front and rear wheel were practically touching the ground when on main stand and very unstable when the ground is uneven.
* have moved the setting to the shortest setting - and still finding the ground clearance less when i had the OEM shocks. Since i threw away the old shock i have no idea what the original length is.
* Also realized that the AM (Hagon) front springs had instructions to put in oil with air gap of 145mm but the stock says 130mm . The front springs are longer - so i think i should drop the front end by 5mm atleast.
Cant use the old rear shock to set the new rear shock with ? Too late now.
This help ?
These specs ?
that is exactly what has happened ...
* rear shocks have adjustable height - so it was at the longest. my front and rear wheel were practically touching the ground when on main stand and very unstable when the ground is uneven.
* have moved the setting to the shortest setting - and still finding the ground clearance less when i had the OEM shocks. Since i threw away the old shock i have no idea what the original length is.
* Also realized that the AM (Hagon) front springs had instructions to put in oil with air gap of 145mm but the stock says 130mm . The front springs are longer - so i think i should drop the front end by 5mm atleast.
I am not sure how tall you are but if you had the bike as you state, with both wheels almost on the ground while on the centerstand and are only worried about the centerstand stability (not your ability to flat foot with the taller bike) then do the following:
1. Raise the rear back to the height that has both tires on the ground when the bike is on the centerstand.
2. Loosen the front fork tube pinch bolts and slowly bring the forks up in the triples until you have effectively lowered the front end approximately 8-12mm.
3. Check to see if the bike feels more stable when parked.
4. Check to see that the bike feels as though it has lost 20 kgs when pushing it through tighter turns.
5. Smile and wonder why you did not do this before.
6. Repeat step 4 at every opportunity.
that is exactly what has happened ...
* rear shocks have adjustable height - so it was at the longest. my front and rear wheel were practically touching the ground when on main stand and very unstable when the ground is uneven.
* have moved the setting to the shortest setting - and still finding the ground clearance less when i had the OEM shocks. Since i threw away the old shock i have no idea what the original length is.
* Also realized that the AM (Hagon) front springs had instructions to put in oil with air gap of 145mm but the stock says 130mm . The front springs are longer - so i think i should drop the front end by 5mm atleast.
I am not sure how tall you are but if you had the bike as you state, with both wheels almost on the ground while on the centerstand and are only worried about the centerstand stability (not your ability to flat foot with the taller bike) then do the following:
1. Raise the rear back to the height that has both tires on the ground when the bike is on the centerstand.
2. Loosen the front fork tube pinch bolts and slowly bring the forks up in the triples until you have effectively lowered the front end approximately 8-12mm.
3. Check to see if the bike feels more stable when parked.
4. Check to see that the bike feels as though it has lost 20 kgs when pushing it through tighter turns.
5. Smile and wonder why you did not do this before.
6. Repeat step 4 at every opportunity.
I am short :) 5.5 ...
As i have reduced the rear shock height it is now ok i.e. rear wheel is off the ground but not sure if the spec is correct.
will try you suggestion - not got down to do anything - enjoying the Chirstmas SPIRITs :)
that is exactly what has happened ...
* rear shocks have adjustable height - so it was at the longest. my front and rear wheel were practically touching the ground when on main stand and very unstable when the ground is uneven.
* have moved the setting to the shortest setting - and still finding the ground clearance less when i had the OEM shocks. Since i threw away the old shock i have no idea what the original length is.
* Also realized that the AM (Hagon) front springs had instructions to put in oil with air gap of 145mm but the stock says 130mm . The front springs are longer - so i think i should drop the front end by 5mm atleast.
I am not sure how tall you are but if you had the bike as you state, with both wheels almost on the ground while on the centerstand and are only worried about the centerstand stability (not your ability to flat foot with the taller bike) then do the following:
1. Raise the rear back to the height that has both tires on the ground when the bike is on the centerstand.
2. Loosen the front fork tube pinch bolts and slowly bring the forks up in the triples until you have effectively lowered the front end approximately 8-12mm.
3. Check to see if the bike feels more stable when parked.
4. Check to see that the bike feels as though it has lost 20 kgs when pushing it through tighter turns.
5. Smile and wonder why you did not do this before.
6. Repeat step 4 at every opportunity.
I do not suggest doing this, especially #2. The VFR's need MORE front ride height but you can't do that by itself. A bit of extra rear ride height helps but don't go crazy. The front doesn't have a lot of trail to spare so if put too much rear ride height into it you drop so small that it becomes unstable. Dropping the front height decreases that even more. Sure, it will feel better on corner entry and you will get the feeling you are ragging it out on the hairy edge. Notice the words "feel"and "feeling"? A bike that is stable and carries the most corner speed will make you feel like you are going slow. That's because your brain feels stability and a sense of being solid and planted. Radical geometry makes you feel like you are ready for MotoGP...until the stable bike passes you.
Moderation is the key. Keep the front standard and tweak the rear a little, but that's it.
I have raised the front fork from 39mm to 47mm. this has lifted the rear. Bike felt grounded except on the turns.
Can anyone measure the stock rear shock length. - think i need to start from scratch.
that is exactly what has happened ...
* rear shocks have adjustable height - so it was at the longest. my front and rear wheel were practically touching the ground when on main stand and very unstable when the ground is uneven.
* have moved the setting to the shortest setting - and still finding the ground clearance less when i had the OEM shocks. Since i threw away the old shock i have no idea what the original length is.
* Also realized that the AM (Hagon) front springs had instructions to put in oil with air gap of 145mm but the stock says 130mm . The front springs are longer - so i think i should drop the front end by 5mm atleast.
I am not sure how tall you are but if you had the bike as you state, with both wheels almost on the ground while on the centerstand and are only worried about the centerstand stability (not your ability to flat foot with the taller bike) then do the following:
1. Raise the rear back to the height that has both tires on the ground when the bike is on the centerstand.
2. Loosen the front fork tube pinch bolts and slowly bring the forks up in the triples until you have effectively lowered the front end approximately 8-12mm.
3. Check to see if the bike feels more stable when parked.
4. Check to see that the bike feels as though it has lost 20 kgs when pushing it through tighter turns.
5. Smile and wonder why you did not do this before.
6. Repeat step 4 at every opportunity.
I do not suggest doing this, especially #2. The VFR's need MORE front ride height but you can't do that by itself. A bit of extra rear ride height helps but don't go crazy. The front doesn't have a lot of trail to spare so if put too much rear ride height into it you drop so small that it becomes unstable. Dropping the front height decreases that even more. Sure, it will feel better on corner entry and you will get the feeling you are ragging it out on the hairy edge. Notice the words "feel"and "feeling"? A bike that is stable and carries the most corner speed will make you feel like you are going slow. That's because your brain feels stability and a sense of being solid and planted. Radical geometry makes you feel like you are ready for MotoGP...until the stable bike passes you.
Moderation is the key. Keep the front standard and tweak the rear a little, but that's it.
I have to disagree with you Jamie but (even though you dislike the riding in the Smokey Mt area) would welcome you proving me wrong at TxMac. I do not feel as though I am on the ragged edge or "ragging it out on the hairy edge." What I am looking for and what I am finding is a balance between the front and rear.
This is evidenced by a more neutral handling bike. Despite raising the rear on al of my VFRs until the shock link fouls the dogbone while unweighted and dropping the front to what I consider the limit (approximately 118mm of tube showing below the lower triple with the front wheel unweighted) I have never been able to make a VFR feel unstable or as though it has had the suspension geometry radically altered.
There is so much trail on the VFR that I don't believe it is possible to make it twitchy.
Although I prefer to ride the front tire harder than the rear (you can set your suspension in any manner that you prefer) when my VFRs feel balanced I can verify that I am at the sweet of front vs rear ride height by looking at how much of the edge of each tire I have used.
It doesn't matter how much of the edge of your tire is used but you should look at the front vs rear to see whether the front or rear can use more ride height to effectively use more tire that is left at the edge.
For example, if you are running off the edge of the front with 3/8" left in the rear then you can raise the front ride height. If you are at the edge of the rear with 1/2" left in the front you can drop the front assuming that the rear is already raised to the limit or that you are short of leg and cannot safely and confidently conduct parking lot maneuvers.
I welcome a ride on a VFR with stock triples and rear shock linkage that has had the rear jacked up and the front lowered so much that it behaves as you describe in your post (with the caveat that the front wheel is not hitting any hard parts at full compression). I simply have never experienced what you are describing.
I have raised the front fork from 39mm to 47mm. this has lifted the rear. Bike felt grounded except on the turns.
Can anyone measure the stock rear shock length. - think i need to start from scratch.
Anik,
What is your sag (front and rear). Then give me the distance from the center of your rear axle hole to the bottom edge of the helmet lock (IIRC you have a 5G - if you have a 6G top measurement to the hole in the left passenger peg where the hard bag mount bolts in) and I will make some suggestions on rear ride height.
Also, what is the condition of your tires and how tall are you (unless you have short legs for your height then just give me your inseam).
When you say you have raised the front forks from 39 to 47mm where is this measurement taken? For example from the top of the upper triple to the top of the cap or the edge of the tube where the cap threads in?
Keith
height : pretty short 5ft 6in with 29 inseam.
the fork is measured from the top of the tripple to top of the fork tube where the nut sits
[image: Front Fork Height]Anik, simple solution. When you put it on the centerstand, put a 1-2cm wood block under the centerstand feet, thicker if you need it. The suspension should be set at the correct height for the bike in motion, not for parking.
I have the same issue for different reasons, the bike is extremely unstable on the centerstand. When I need to put the bike up I slide a 2" thick piece of wood under the c-stand feet before raising it.
my concern is not about the clearance but where i have set the suspension at the correct height / slag.
my front hagon sprints are longer - which has raised my front shocks, rear i have Nitron where i have adjusted the height to its lowest settings (making the bike lower)
Actually I may be wrong, with the rear lower you will probably on the side of the rear with 3/4" of strips left on the front...depending on how you ride.
Regardless the front will have plenty of room left for leaning while the rear will be much less.
^^ What he said . ^^^
Maybe not but did you cut the spacer ?
I don't have much to add here, but am curious as to how much we can actually use the tire "chicken" strips to actually judge front and rear ride height.
A. Is it actually true dropping the front uses more of the front tire edge and vice versa?
B. Isn't the fact that front and rear are completely different tires with different profiles unreliable for any comparison purposes other than before and after geometry changes on your own bike?
A is true. B is the correct also, I cant change my geometry and make your tires look different so looking at this is just one tool to verify or deny what you think is happening on your own bike.
I am not sure how much room you have on your SF front end or if you have the fork length at all to raise them but if so, just raise your front by sliding the tubes lower in the triples and then dust or chalk the front tire and tell me from your experience two things:
1. How does the bike feel initiating turn in?
2. Have you used as much of the edge of the front tire as you had prior to raising the front?
I can only tell you what I have seen and experienced. You cant compare my tire to yours as we may favor one end or the other when riding.
I used to be extremely hard on the front tire and now am just very hard on it. If I initiate a turn and push the front tire to scrub off some speed in the corner my tires will look different from yours. If I decide to get my braking done early and enter the turn with neutral throttle then roll on at the apex the front will lighten and rise slightly and my tire wear will look different than it usually does.
You should play with your settings yourself and see what you like and what results you get. It is extremely difficult to make a VFR with stock forks twitchy or unstable.
Anik,
If you front springs are longer than stock and you did not shorten the spacer (tubing) then you have effectively increased your preload on the front springs and may not be able to get proper sag in the front with you onboard (unless you were running out of preload adjustment before and needed additional preload).
With your rear set lower and the front springs longer, how does the edge of the tires look? Is the unused edge (commonly called chicken strips) the same size in the front as it is in the rear? I would wager that your rear chicken strip is at least twice as wide as your front.
I would also think that a back to back ride on my bike and yours would have you thinking that your bike handled like a chopper right now.
What are your numbers above? 320 300 275 - what do these refer to?
Did you measure your sag with you on the bike, a friend holding the bike upright but not lifting on the front or rear, and a third person taking the measurement to same point each time?
I know you said your inseam was under 30" and you will need the bike a bit lower than standard for hilly driveways or off camber stop signs but if you raise the rear and lower the front by the same amount this will keep your height as low as you need it while making the bike handle much better.
^^ What he said . ^^^
Crap !
So one thing i have to fix first is when i inserted the Hagon longer springs i have not cut or put smaller spring collor (spacer) ... which seems to have eaten up my preload. my preload on the front is at its highest setting (no preload). I will need to first put smaller or cut this and then check all the setting again.
"Just make sure you retighten any fasteners you loosen to make the mods."
Oop's !!!!
i am getting 8 to 10 mm sag in the front due to the linger springs. i have to cut these to get some sag. We had a ride this weekend . my hands were doing popcorn dance on the bumps at 100 mph, plus was very unstable at the corners.
i am getting 8 to 10 mm sag in the front due to the linger springs. i have to cut these to get some sag. We had a ride this weekend . my hands were doing popcorn dance on the bumps at 100 mph, plus was very unstable at the corners.
Longer springs so remove and cut 10mm or so ?
Anik,
If you still have the stock springs and the spacers that are in the forks are stock then when you remove the spacers to cut them down to get proper sag measure the spacers and stock springs and cut the spacers so the new springs + spacers are about 3-5mm longer than the stock setup.
This should give you a great range of settings still available if your springs are the proper weight for you and the bike.
Most excellent idea, gonna use that one myself ...
Most excellent idea, gonna use that one myself ...
you may want to take couple of readings - to ensure you have the right numbers.
Most excellent idea, gonna use that one myself ...
you may want to take couple of readings - to ensure you have the right numbers.
Found that out today. Set it up yesterday, just now recheck it and it has settle. But man what a ride .
Found that out today. Set it up yesterday, just now recheck it and it has settle. But man what a ride .
you may want to take couple of readings - to ensure you have the right numbers.
what was the Sag at and is now ?
Got in late will recheck tonight .
Checking the rear sag alone seems quite a headache ...
Made a slider from a 18inches SS scale and tied a Zip tie to it. White masking tape is just protecting the paint
Measurement A - fully extended was easy with the bike on main stand. taken it from the top of the rear axle to the helmet holder. just move the zip tie above till they touch. take the readings.The reading at 40Clicks on the preload seems to be the sweet spot. Test ride over the weekend.
Your balance must be uncanny...I could not balance the bike with both feet on the pegs long enough to get a sag reading by myself...
lol :goofy:
No way i could do this with both legs up ... the trick would be sit a little behind but with one leg down - the right side
Checking the rear sag alone seems quite a headache ...
Made a slider from a 18inches SS scale and tied a Zip tie to it. White masking tape is just protecting the paint
Measurement A - fully extended was easy with the bike on main stand. taken it from the top of the rear axle to the helmet holder. just move the zip tie above till they touch. take the readings.The reading at 40Clicks on the preload seems to be the sweet spot. Test ride over the weekend.
Your balance must be uncanny...I could not balance the bike with both feet on the pegs long enough to get a sag reading by myself...
i would say something but I'm not ...
All the dimension you asked for will vary from bike to bike, even same age and model. If you want to know the factory dimensions all you need to compare your "Before" & "After" is. Placing a tape measure on the rear wheel centre bolt ie, (top of the round part not on the nut) measure to the bottom of the key slot for the seat release. It should be 325mm. As for the front, when on the centre stand and front wheel (tyre doesn't touch the ground) measure the distance from the bottom of the lower triple clamp to the fork seals and it should be 125mm.
The original OEM shock is 326mm