So after two sets of Conti Road Attacks, a set of Avon Storms and two sets of Road Attack 2s, I've decided to try something different - Shinko 016 Verge. Why? I hate to admit it, but primarily price - nearly $100 bucks a set less than the Contis and let's face it, I live in Indiana where I waste more tires than I use. Before pulling the trigger I read all of the reviews both here and on other forums. Lots of haters - "old designs", "slow to warm up", etc. and a good number of folks said they had them and were very happy. So how do I decide if they work for me other than to try a set out and see? I loved the Road Attacks for the light handling, particularly when new. They always seemed like the tip over was effortless and holding a line was easy. Felt good on the street and for an occasional track day. The Storms were an experiment to try and get better commuting mileage - meh - 7k before they were cupped and the handling was always heavier than the Contis. The Attack 2s felt lighter than the Storms when new, but seemed to lose that light handling feel after just a few thousand miles.
So the Verges are purchased and mounted. The front required no weight - a good start, and the rear, well we don't know yet because the shop has misplaced their adapter cone for the VFR(a separate long story) It rides out without vibration, but I'll take it by later this week and have it checked.
Initial impression - the profile on these tires is different... I don't know yet if it's different good or bad but definitely different. At slower speeds they feel like I'm riding on a knife edge. Think about turning and the motorcycle feels like it's falling in that direction. At street speeds in a turn you actually have to apply pressure away from the turn to prevent the line from tightening. Initiate a slow weave (30mph) and you consciously have to bring it back to neutral. Maybe this is normal for some tires but it is outside the bounds of my experience with the VFR or any other motorcycle. Now, on the other hand, add a bit of speed to a corner and the steering pressure seems to become neutral - no steering pressure to hold the line and light pressure to make adjustments. At speed they feel pretty good.
As stated in the title, this is an experiment. My daughter and I are headed to TN/NC next week and I'll be able to give these tires a proper 2k mile test with lots of real curves. If anyone is interested I'll try post a couple of updates throughout the trip.
Ride safe[image: image.jpg]
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You could have gotten the Q3 for 217.00 plus a 40.00 Rebate Visa card from JakeWilson.com.
I posted it in the Bargain Section.
I was a fan of Shinko for a while.
I have heard a lot of horror stories about poor quality tires from the factory.
Luckily I never got any bad ones.
But a guy I often do tires for did:
This is the 009 Raven. The Verge is a bit better.
[video: http://youtube.com/embed/f4SLVbTYwiU?html5=1&fs=1]
I ran a Shinko on the rear when they first came out for the same reason, price. I was surprised how well it handled. I may not be as aggressive as some, but I'm no slouch either and I had no problems with traction in the dry or wet. Just put a set of their crusier tires on my dad's Vulcan 900.
I will also add, that when in Western NC, I often have sets of 180/120 tires for 200.00 mounted.
Usually, better quality than Shinko.
In the 220.00 range the tire selection gets better.
http://www.RideWNC.com
I put a couple thousand miles on a set of Verge shortly after they came out. They did everything you would expect and were even pretty good in the rain.
Now the 009 Raven's on the other hand... I've personally had to change way too many 009 front tires that blistered and/or separated especially on heavier bikes in hot weather.
Hey Dave,
Greetings from Indianapolis! I am in Zionsville. Hopefully I will see you out sometime. I have a red '01 and a RWB '07.
enjoy the Shinkos! I have heard mostly good reviews of them, and for the money they are pretty damn good. Its not like we have a ton of twisty roads here in Indy...unless we ride south to Brown County.
You could have gotten the Q3 for 217.00 plus a 40.00 Rebate Visa card from JakeWilson.com.
I posted it in the Bargain Section.
I was a fan of Shinko for a while.
I have heard a lot of horror stories about poor quality tires from the factory.
Luckily I never got any bad ones.
But a guy I often do tires for did:
This is the 009 Raven. The Verge is a bit better.
[video: http://youtube.com/embed/f4SLVbTYwiU?html5=1&fs=1]
That video is hilarious. I think if you are going to buy ANY used tire off of flea-bay for $35, you get what you are asking for.
I ran a set of Verges on the extra set of wheels. They were cheap $161.00 to the door . They were ok.
I am glad you are willing to experiment and share your findings. My feeling is that these days the old saw that, "you get what you pay for" often doesn't apply. Rather it should be, " price is often not reflective of quality". Designer label clothes and many "Name Brand" products of all kinds are good examples of this. Folks often buy the more expensive product for prestige or because they believe "top of the line is best".
This view is epidemic in the audiophile community where $5000 speaker wires, $50,00 turntables and $80,000 amplifiers sell well and some manufacturers have actually admitted they will double the price of an unchanged product to increase sales because of," buyer perception that a higher price tag is reflective of a better product."
So, it takes some guts to try out tires where you may get comments such as, "Don't cheap out when your life is on the line." Or, " You'll find out why they call them Stinkos".
I really wish that tire testing by magazines and by users could be "blind". I strongly suspect that handling and feel are subjective enough that knowing what brand you are riding on substantially influences the perception of the tires performance.
Have you, like me noticed that your car really seems to run smoother after an oil change? Especially so after putting in a Premium oil....
My car runs smoother after an oil change... And I can tell when it hits 3K miles.
Car tires are the real difference. Over many years and many different cars and tires, I have learned;
Just spend the money and buy the Michelin's.
I have never had any other tire feel so confident on wet roads.
I like knowing when I hit the puddle my car won't hydroplane.
Sure a set of tires costs me 1300.00 online pricing. But they sure feel nice on the roadways.
I had a friend buy Tomahawk tires for his bike. He bought five for 200.00.
http://www.desser.co...torcycle-Tires/That is a great deal right?
Well it wasn't so good when the recap started separating.
He complained about the ride feel on every trip. I think he only used three of them and disposed of the rest.
I guess they weren't really worth it.
Always happy to share any learnings. The ability to do so here without fear of critiiscism is a significant part of what makes this forum light years better than almost any other interest group on the net.
Seems like I'm always swapping out a marginal set of tires right before a trip south. Maybe next time I'll leave 'em on and pick up a set from gr8vfr en route!
I would still be interested in hearing opinions on the low speed handling charastics described above. Are there other tires out there with a profile that falls in so aggressively conscious effort is required keep the line from tightening? It literally feels like having to "counter steer away from the direction of the turn.
What you are describing is when a tire is more angled than round.
When angled the bike feels like it falls into a turn.
A round profile has a more gradual fall into the turns and provides more feedback.
Remember, you are comparing new tires to your old tires. The feel is going to be considerably different
especially if you put a lot of miles on your last set. Those high miles on tires begins to change your ride style.
You learn to react to the way the tires feel. Your old tire probably had a nice flat spot and you had to
push the bike to get over the edge of the flat area.
With new tires you are thinking that they just don't feel like your worn out tires.
I guess that is one bonus about living here. Tires aren't on the bike long enough to get used to them.
Gr8vfr...I would be interested in learning what tires you have for $200 mounted? $220 as well.
I go through quite a few tires and am always looking for a way to get a few more miles per tire dollar.
FYI...I am currently running 023's and T30's. Unfortunately the rears are 190/55's
Thanx!
I am running Verge 2X on my VFR.... they're really quite good.
DaveM, how much mileage do you typically get out of a set of tires? How much mileage do you do a year? Just curious. I have the Shinko Ravens, they came with my bike (used). Not sure how I feel about them. I plan to replace with Michelins when they are done. I don't clock nearly as many miles as many on here, but just want the smoothest and best ride for touring.
Signal, I haven't expended my tires yet, but the Verge 2X is shinko's first dual compound tire.
And like I said, so far, it's excellent.
any update on the mileage on the Verges?
Got closer to 3k miles on the front/rear. No obvious signs of wear from the front, and the rear? It's still in quite good shape. Doesn't spin before wheelie-ing, doesn't slip leaned over, can pick up the frontend from a stoplight, does nothing horrible in the rain, besides some times spinup 1st when vtec hits (oh well? at least it's good for giggles that way)
would I buy another? Yeah. I'm gonna put a new rear on soon ... ish? I'm gonna try to get one before I thuroughly trash this one, and maybe do a nasty burnout vid, to send off the first 2x. then put the new one on. lol.
Well.. . . . . 5500 and they're thuroughly wasted. hahaha....
I -did- expose them to full on trackday hooliganism though. just to let you know on a VFR the front WILL NOT put up with trackday conditions. it'll grip reliably, BUT, absolutely melt the tire into garbage. went down past the wear bar in 1 day tracking on a short track. I Still think they're a brilliant tire. I bought another full set. :)
Had I not melted the front down full on leaning through hairpins with the rear tire on fire after, I think I'd have gotten another rear out of the front. maybe I'll be more responsible with this set.
...I doubt it.