So, I noticed in the directions and on the DVS chart received from the Race Tech website... that it wants me to drill a bleed hole into the valve body.
However, the hex nut base and hollow mounting shaft already act as a bleed hole...
Should I block off this bleed hole? or is the aditional valve hole needed for proper functionality?
I've seen some photos on here of both.
Thanks in advance.
I was just talking to Jamie Daugherty about this a few weeks ago. On the VFR it is not necessary in his opinion and it can also be detrimental to your suspension.
Just to be safe though, I would PM him.
I just emailed him...
How could it be detrimental? Too much flow by-passing the valve shims?
Although I agree that asking Jamie for guidance would be advisable, but IMO I think it is a bit presumptuous to buy from ones competitor and then seek them for help. :goofy: Knowing how helpful JD is he'll probably answer the query anyway. Out of curiosity, why would one not seek guidance from the place the components were purchased from? Not trying to be an a$$ but curious as to why the question was raised on the forum and why one would seek assistance from someone other than the origin of the components.
Just finished my Race-Tech Gold valve installs on my 2005 VFR800, both rebound and compression. When I questioned Race-Tech about the #55 holes drilled in the valve bodies - the response was because there is no rebound adjustment screw on the standard VFR800 fork (only preload) that these wholes were necessary. IF the VFR fork caps had both preload and rebound adjustment capabilities - then no hole would be drilled in the valve bodies. PART A of upgrade.
I am not versed enough in suspension to know whether or not this all makes sense - the bodies came drilled and were installed as supplied. I also installed Rce-Tech springs matched to my weight and riding style. Are you doing spring upgrades also? Certainly Jamie would know better about the reasoning regarding the holes, for or against!
The first 1000km test ride has shown the front forks much better at maintaining composure on the twisty mountain roads where I live. The front end is more compliant, more precise and I feel more confident pushing my bike into the corners. The install has made a noticable difference and I am happy with the upgrade.
In addition to the Gold Valving on the front end - a Penske 8983 shock was added onto the back end which makes a dramatic difference again in the stability and handling of the bike. PART B of upgrades.
So which part of the upgrades was a better return on investment Part A (Race-Tech valving on the front) or Part B (Pnske shock on rear)? I don't know but together the bike feels much more stable, more precise and more enjoyable when playing in the twsties up here in the Canadian Rockies..
I would love to get down south to have Jamie put my bike in top form and have him tune all of my suspension settings to maximize the bike's potential. That is definitely on the wish list of bike enhancements!
Out of curiosity, why would one not seek guidance from the place the components were purchased from? Not trying to be an a$$ but curious as to why the question was raised on the forum and why one would seek assistance from someone other than the origin of the components.
This is a good point and I'm glad you pointed it out. The instructions that come with the Racetech products are for the most part generic. The people making them and packaging them are no different than the lowest paid techs at the dealership. If the valve for the front fork of a VFR800 is the same size as 20 other bikes, the average for all bike are what the instructions will say.
My bike had a full Racetech suspension and the valves up front were drilled and it was causing a pretty bad bounce. Jamie took everything apart and kept anything that he thought were what I was wanting and replacing whatever he explained to me as not being what I wanted. So even though I had a "competitors" product, Jamie answered my questions and we both came out ahead. My next bike (whenever that may be) will be going to Jamie because he helped me out this time.
Should I block off this bleed hole? or is the aditional valve hole needed for proper functionality?
I just remembered, I still have my Racetech valves that were drilled per the instructions. They are sitting in a box on my workbench at home. I went with JD's valves. When I get home tonight, I'll take a picture of everything I have extra. I'd be willing to sell everything so you can have both setups to test if you like.
Out of curiosity, why would one not seek guidance from the place the components were purchased from? Not trying to be an a$$ but curious as to why the question was raised on the forum and why one would seek assistance from someone other than the origin of the components.
This is a good point and I'm glad you pointed it out. The instructions that come with the Racetech products are for the most part generic. The people making them and packaging them are no different than the lowest paid techs at the dealership. If the valve for the front fork of a VFR800 is the same size as 20 other bikes, the average for all bike are what the instructions will say.
Packagers, shipping clerks and the people who assemble the products are one thing, but technical support is another. If you call a company, reach their technical support and still only get the "generic" answers, then you bought from the wrong place IMO. Just to be clear, I'm not calling out Racetech here, I am just curious if the OP called them and didn't get the answer he was looking and therefore came to VFRD and then JD for an answer. To me this is a "need to know" in a sense, as this might make the "where to go" choice easier for the next person going the DIY route and knowing if the answers from RT (or any company for that matter) get answered properly.
To put everyone's questions asside...
I had contacted RaceTech regarding an issue with their "one time use" code for using their Digital Valve Setting system... Mainly the fact that it was not clearly marked on their directions, or packaging, and that I had used a phone to log into the site to get the settings, and when I went to my computer to print the sheet, it didn't work and I had been locked out.
SO... the response I got back from them was none to pleasant... almost calling me an idiot without saying it... and then acting as though "forced" to give me a new code for access to the site. Therefore.... I don't give a crap about anything they have to say. Their IT/Service/Professionalism is not something I want to deal with... producing generic instructions and vague descriptions and expecting Joe Everyman to understand it is utter bologna.
THAT, and I had talked to Jamie on VFRWorld breifly on the subject and he said to contact him with any questions... as he wasn't available, and in wanting to source the question about a product that wasn't his... I posted here first.
I have since got hold of Jaime and he suggested the following:
1. Do not drill the valve.
2. Drill the bleed hole in the hex nut out to #55. (1.3mm)
He had mentioned multiple customers reporting "stock" feeling suspension with the bleed hole drilled into the valves.
I have since vowed to purchase any suspension upgrades from him in the future ;).
I did the drilling on the valves as instructed by the instruction sheet that came with the valves and it works great for me. The shimm arrangement was done as well as per RaceTech on-line calculations and the table inside instructions sheet. I guess I was one of the lucky ones...
Soon after I had a long ride to the mountains on different kinds of surfaces and there were no problems for me.
Following this thread I just emailed Jamie about doing a suspension upgrade because I ride a passenger alot of the time. I was thinking about getting the racetech stuff for the front but after reading this Im thinking Jamie is the best best, also with the best prices it seems.
I'm a little late to this party but as I have been getting intimate with the innards of my 5th gen forks lately I feel I can contribute a little on the topic of bleed holes.
You do need some bleed around the shim stack for both compression and rebound as this is a source of low-speed damping. Some standard valve bodies have a bit of a step in the valve face where the shim stack sits, and that lets fluid bleed past the shims. In the case of the 5th gen (and I suspect the 6th gen also) the rebound valve body has no bleed but there is a bleed port drilled up through the main shaft that connects to a small bleed port that runs to the shaft surface. During rebound, oil trapped between the top of the cartridge and the slow rising piston can pass through this port. When the piston velocity exceeds what this port can flow, the shims are forced open.
There's no such bleed hole in the bolt holding compression stack on the 5th gen and if my valve stack was standard, then it looks like Honda created a bleed with a small diameter first shim that kept the first of the 17mm shims just clear of the valve face. With a more conventional shim setup like RaceTech a bleed hole is drilled through the side of one of the ports that normally allows free passage during rebound but is closed during compression. This is again bypassing the shim stack and allowing fluid to flow from inside the cartridge where it is getting compressed by the main shaft entering the tube, to the outside of the cartridge through the big bottom ports.
One thing to remember about the bleeds is that they contribute to the total damping force; the ports and the shims add together to give the desired effect, so a change in one could affect the other. E.g. if you drill a bigger bleed port to get less low speed damping, you will probably need to compensate by stiffening the high speed damping with extra shims.