Don't mean to start an oil war, but just noticed in the SM the recommended oil and filter interval on the 6th gen is 8,000 miles. Really? Anyone following this? Thoughts/issues?
I've always done 3k on all my schtuff. Now I feel...not right. If Honda-San says it's so, it must be right....right?
Damn it. I just checked the SM's on my 1st Gens AND 4th Gen, and they are 8,000 mile intervals too! Think of the $ I've wasted! I could be living on an island somewhere!
The ZX is every 6200 miles (10km)! Double damn it!
OK. Who else is still doing the (apparently) old skool 3k oil swap here, SM be damned?
I don't even go half of 8000 miles, Im rewarded with a post 100,000 mile vfr that still runs as good or better off the showroom floor and still has the original clutch that performs flawless, and lets not forget no valve check, course my secret sauce is also a routine dose of leaded race fuel.
Far as Im concerned , that's the ticket to long life, without compromise and degrade.
I have always changed oil between 4-5k miles when using traditional dyno based oils and around 6-7k when using quality synthetic oils. Changing oil every 3k miles is a waste of money and oil in my opinion.
You know they built in a safety factor. If Honda recommends 8K, the oil is probably good for 10K or more. That said, I store my bike for close to 6 months every year due to NY winters. I change my oil every fall at about 5K miles. Well within Honda's guidelines.
I think I'd send some oil off to Blackstone Labs before I'd run it for 8,000 miles. But I don't have any problem with 5,000 miles, but oil changes at 3,000 miles, especially with synthetic, are a waste of oil and money. IMO of course.
I have seen lab results from t6 in a 6th gen and it seems to only be good for about 2500 miles. The good thing is it's good, cheap oil. I don't mind changing it anyway, no panels to remove and it takes all of 10 minutes.
3rd gen states 8k miles too, and the oil we have now has GOT to be better than 23 years ago. That said, I change oil every 5k (on the #0 and #5 of the odo) on all my vehicles just so I remember to do it.
3rd gen states 8k miles too, and the oil we have now has GOT to be better than 23 years ago. That said, I change oil every 5k (on the #0 and #5 of the odo) on all my vehicles just so I remember to do it.
My first VFR, an '01 I bought in 2006 with 4,000 mi, had oil changes, mostly dino, between 6,000 and 10,000 mi, forever. At 104,000, just before she was KIA'd by a deer, I sent a sample to Blackstone for analysis. The results are in my gallery. They said the engine was in above average condition for the mileage. Their last comment was" "nice bike".
So that confirmed to me that my oil changing routine was fine for engine life.
I think short oil change intervals are a waste of money, and unnecessarily add to the degradation of our planet.
I just use old oil drained from the neighborhood lawnmowers (where do you think Rotella comes from). This lasts me a good 20, 000 miles, just like my rear tires.
I know this is good because the bike performs far better than when it came off the assembly line, and the clutch likes it too because it has actually reversed the clutch plate wear and they are now far better than when new. I've done this for 40 years and the bike has never let me down, you just can't get any better proof than that,
Wow, so I've been wasting hard earned $$ and time every 3k......guess better late then never to learn. Thanks
You too, huh?
I have seen lab results from t6 in a 6th gen and it seems to only be good for about 2500 miles. The good thing is it's good, cheap oil. I don't mind changing it anyway, no panels to remove and it takes all of 10 minutes.
You don't remove any panels on the 6th gen to do an oil change?
THIS I MUST hear more about. I take off the entire left side (easy) and that little triangular painted left corner dash piece (PITA). Break it down for me, will ya? I've got the same RWB you do. And what's up with Bilt gear and you?
My 6 gen oil change.....I remove the two bolts on the left bottom chin plastic, remove clips from the underside of fairing, and the two left side fairing bolts...one by the kick stand and the other 1/2 down between knee and ankle. I still have all the Cali plumbing in front of my oil filter.....with the fairing loose its easy to get the filter off. Hope this helps
I think I'd send some oil off to Blackstone Labs before I'd run it for 8,000 miles. But I don't have any problem with 5,000 miles, but oil changes at 3,000 miles, especially with synthetic, are a waste of oil and money. IMO of course.
Without a lab analyzing it you've got absolutely nothing for data. Nothing at all. 8k is definitely doable with Amsoil, Rotella breaks down sooner. Send back to back samples off and it should give you an idea on where you need to be.
Blackstone will send you the kits for free. You pay only when you send it in.
Makes for some paperwork to hand off to your buyer if you ever decide to sell or a warranty claim in that rare occurrence. Has definitely helped me when I sold a bike.
I don't think there's a single manufacture on the planet that recommends oil changes every 3000 miles. That came from the oil companies who want your money. Great job brainwashing everybody with commercials recommending 3000 mile oil changes.
As far as a VFR goes , Honda built the thing and recommends oil change at 8K intervals with their Dino oil which is crap, if you check on this it rates amongst the lowest in quality.
IMO a VFR will easily go 100k miles on any oil at any interval, maybe even a single oil change.
Running on the recommended deno oil at 8K miles intervals would be no issue whatsoever so if you look at something like mobile 1 or some other Quality synthetic oil which should go at least 50% longer than the crap deno Honda oil and obviously 8K OL changes are unnecessary.
I've got 105,000 miles on my 02 VFR beating the crap out of it and have gone over 10,000 miles on a single oil change.
Obviously the only real answer would be a oil analysis test. But I don't believe the 3K oil change BS!!!
I usually change oil and filter when shifting doesn't feel "smooth" anymore... which usually happens around 6,000 miles. I use Mobil 1.
I don't get too hung up on oil.... At my previous job, during the course business, I had occassion to talk with a Mobil petroleum engineer to get an oil spec on a very high-value piece of equipment. Of course, after business was concluded, our talk drifted to motor oil. This was right around the time when Chevrolet started delivering all new Corvettes with Mobil 1. He told me that part of the testing to get the Chevrolet endorsement was running a Corvette 24/7 until it had 10,000 miles on the clock then tearing the motor down for inspection.
He told me that he changed his oil in his personal car at 8,000.
I respectfully disagree with Baileyrock, the "3,000 mile oil change" did not come to us "from the oil companies". It came to us from our fathers; who were driving their cars in 1965. If you hoped to get 50,000 miles out of your motor, you changed your oil every 3,000 miles... and even then it was a crap-shoot as to whether you would get 50,000 miles.
You don't remove any panels on the 6th gen to do an oil change?
THIS I MUST hear more about. I take off the entire left side (easy) and that little triangular painted left corner dash piece (PITA). Break it down for me, will ya? I've got the same RWB you do. And what's up with Bilt gear and you?
Remove top two of the four lower middle fairing bolts. The mid fairing can then flex enough to remove the filter, and the drain won't spill anything on the fairing when center-standed. I only do one filter per year. Oil only half way. Easy peasy.
Honda built the thing and recommends oil change at 8K intervals with their Dino oil which is crap, if you check on this it rates amongst the lowest in quality.
.snip
Can you produce a reference to this claim regarding the quality of Honda's oil?, and which Honda oil are you referring to?
The service intervals in this Maintenance Schedule are based on average riding conditions. Some items will need more frequent service if you ride in unusually wet or dusty areas or at full throttle.
The service intervals in this Maintenance Schedule are based on average riding conditions. Some items will need more frequent service if you ride in unusually wet or dusty areas or at full throttle.
I've seen Blackstone report in the forums at 8k and they said go another 2 or 3k miles and also another Blackstone report at 4k and they indicated it was time for a change. So it still comes out to how you ride in your environment......... If you wanna know for sure, test your oil.
Technical speaking the first number (the "5" in 5w40) is only a
relative number which basically indicates how easily it will allow an
engine to "turn over" at low temperatures. It is NOT a viscosity
reference. In other words, a 5w40 is NOT a 5 weight oil in cold
temperatures and a 40 weight oil in warm temperatures... rather a 5W40
Rotella actual viscosity is 76 cTs at 104F (40C) and 13.8 cTs at 212F
(100C) this test means the oil was heated to 100 degrees C and it flowed
within a certain kinematic viscosity which is then classified with in
a certain SAE grade like the "40" in 5w40).
API ranks the first number and the letter W from the oldest to the newest on its
ability to lube your engine during critical start up
15W
10W
5W
0W
If you wish to employ the latest oil then you want an one with the latest API rank of 0W...
I think the difference between the old15W and the newest 0W is like the difference between
bias ply tires and radials... both will protect your rim but one has become superior...
I can pretty much guarantee, my 2 quarts of 10w40 and 1 quart 20w50(for longevity) is running thicker than your 0w30, Through out the motor including the transmission
I just wanted to see a UOA of a Hard ridden bike with significant mileage more than 2000 mile on the oci, with the 0w30 car oil.
The only thing a grade guarantees is flow measured in centistrokes cSt
its not a measurement of thickness... you're not alone thinking in
terms of thickness but its not how oils are graded...
It is time to introduce the concept of lubrication. Most believe that
pressure = lubrication. This is false. Flow = lubrication. If pressure
was the thing that somehow lubricated your engine then we would all be
using 90 weight oil. Lubrication is used to separate moving parts, to
keep them from touching. There is a one to one relationship between
flow and separation. If you double the flow you will double the
separation pressure in a bearing. The pressure at the bearing entrance
is irrelevant.
In fact the relationship between pressure and flow is in opposition.
If you change your oil to a thicker formula the pressure will go up.
It goes up because the resistance to flow is greater and in fact the
flow must go down in order for the pressure to go up. They are
inversely related. Conversely if you choose a thinner oil then the
pressure will go down. This can only occur if the flow has increased.
I'm not sure I totally buy into this flow/pressure explanation.
I know that on some pressurized oil fed engines with plain bearings that develop excessive bearing clearance, will then show lower oil pressure and shortly after that have problems with spun bearings. The oil pump is pumping the same volume of oil, but one or more of the bearings will fail. I've always been told that it is because the oil pump volume is the same but the pressure has decreased and allowed the oil film separating the plain bearings from the crank to fail and that leads to metal-to-metal contact and subsequent failure. That's what I've always been told.
I have owned bikes with roller bearing cranks and realize that they run very, very low oil pressure but a very high volume due to point contact of the roller balls which benefit in no way to oil pressure.
Blackstone reports at 10 paces! :goofy: BLS did you use the honda tool that mounts to the oil filter to get the pressure or did you tap in elsewhere? Also where did you get the display?
I can pretty much guarantee, my 2 quarts of 10w40 and 1 quart 20w50(for longevity) is running thicker than your 0w30, Through out the motor including the transmission
I just wanted to see a UOA of a Hard ridden bike with significant mileage more than 2000 mile on the oci, with the 0w30 car oil.
The only thing a grade guarantees is flow measured in centistrokes cSt
its not a measurement of thickness... you're not alone thinking in
terms of thickness but its not how oils are graded...
It is time to introduce the concept of lubrication. Most believe that
pressure = lubrication. This is false. Flow = lubrication. If pressure
was the thing that somehow lubricated your engine then we would all be
using 90 weight oil. Lubrication is used to separate moving parts, to
keep them from touching. There is a one to one relationship between
flow and separation. If you double the flow you will double the
separation pressure in a bearing. The pressure at the bearing entrance
is irrelevant.
In fact the relationship between pressure and flow is in opposition.
If you change your oil to a thicker formula the pressure will go up.
It goes up because the resistance to flow is greater and in fact the
flow must go down in order for the pressure to go up. They are
inversely related. Conversely if you choose a thinner oil then the
pressure will go down. This can only occur if the flow has increased.
I'm not sure I totally buy into this flow/pressure explanation.
I know that on some pressurized oil fed engines with plain bearings that develop excessive bearing clearance, will then show lower oil pressure and shortly after that have problems with spun bearings. The oil pump is pumping the same volume of oil, but one or more of the bearings will fail. I've always been told that it is because the oil pump volume is the same but the pressure has decreased and allowed the oil film separating the plain bearings from the crank to fail and that leads to metal-to-metal contact and subsequent failure. That's what I've always been told.
I have owned bikes with roller bearing cranks and realize that they run very, very low oil pressure but a very high volume due to point contact of the roller balls which benefit in no way to oil pressure.
I think in both cases the measured pressure has dropped because resistance to flow has decreased... this does not prove or require that flow has increased. At a given pump speed the flow should be relatively defined... shouldn't it? Resistance to flow would cause an increase in measured pressure to maintain the flow rate (e.g. increased viscosity); conversely, a decrease in resistance to flow (e.g. excessive bearing clearance) would result in a decrease in pressure with the same flow rate.
End of thread · 33 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 21 Jun 2015
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