Mr. Rc45 Digital Oil Pressure Gauge Mod

[image: RC45Coolant203FOil10.jpg]

Understanding the relationship between pressure and flow running

the free flowing 30 grade oil recommended in the owners manual...

Choosing a 30 over a 40 or 50 is smarter because it will:

1)increase HP at the rear wheel
2)quicken the throttle response coming out of the corners...
3)decrease over all operating temps...
4)increase the oil flow at the critical bearings...

I started with a $135 compact digital oil pressure gauge p/n P210 from
Auber Instruments with a 0-150 psi or 10 bar range...
http://www.auberins.com/

Installing Auber's senor was complicated because I wanted the to keep
the stock Honda sensor that signaled the red low oil pressure light on
the instrument cluster... I engineered this arrangement...


Different threads required multiple fittings... I starter with the
hole in the engine which are BSP threads... next came a BSP to NPT
adapter... which allowed a NTP Tee for the NTP Auber sensor... finally
I screwed the BSP Honda sensor into the NPT Tee threads which held but
leaked... so I sealed it up with a custom double O ring washer...
[image: 16323472805_7b8d5bd384_o.jpg]

I machined a Double O Ring washer to insure against an oil leak...
[image: 16323472715_289e07c83c_o.jpg]

It took 5 attempts to come up with the right angles and holes before
the Delrin Clamp Mod worked like I wanted...
[image: 16322604502_ece218f4be_o.jpg]

The 5th Delrin Clamp was perfect...
[image: 16321674231_414f811294_o.jpg]

Machined Delrin clamp installed to anchor the long and ponderous Auber
sensor to the bike...
[image: 16321674071_7b6f1fe8b2_o.jpg]

Carbon Fiber plate was used to secure the Oil Press Gauge to the
instrument cluster...
[image: 16137271489_ba6f13d3ab_o.jpg]


All in all this mod consumed close to 30 day of labor but it was worth
it... Now I'm able to evaluate my oil versus viscosity...

I choose 0W30 because it gives the right flow at the normal operating
temperature of 212ºF of the engine and that would be the viscosity of
10 at operating temps... so that means for every 1000 rpms increase
Mr.RC45's oil pressure increases another 10 psi... a 30w flows more
oil at higher rpms which flows more oil between the critical bearings
which carries away more heat and I'm not wasting HP just pumping oil
through the blow off valve...

0w30 psi
1000 10
2000 20
3000 30
4000 40
5000 50
6000 60
7000 70
8000 80
9000 90
10000 99
11000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve

0w40
1000 12
2000 24
3000 36
4000 48
5000 72
6000 84
7000 96
8000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve
9000 99
10000 99
11000 99

15W50 psi
1000 15
2000 30
3000 45
4000 60
5000 75
6000 90
7000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve
8000 99
9000 99
10000 99
11000 99

Quote Mobil 1 on the viscosity of their synthetic 0 30 weight oil:

Temperature ( F )....Viscosity Flow

212ºF..........................10 (operating)
104ºF..........................56 (start up)
32ºF..........................100 (estimate)


[image: 31395d1322690092-bored-winter-plans-rc45]

Mr.RC45 Oil Press Gauge shows the problem with oil... it doesn't want
to flow when its cold this is 0w30 at 112º resisting at 18 psi
[image: RC45OilPressGauge_zpsc2421fbe.jpg]

The same 0w30 at 203F Oil is flowing 10 psi perfect
[image: RC45Coolant203FOil10.jpg]

Thanks for the write up!

Interesting test. Would it be safe to assume this information could be applied to my 4th gen engine? The 4th gen manual recommends the same viscosities per temperature range. I normally run 10w-40, but only ride my bike in 5-40*C weather. Would 0w-30 be a safe choice? And which mobil one are you using?

Thanks!

PS is that 92,000 miles on MR.RC45??

^^^^ 92,000 kilometers not miles... Mr. RC45 is an import

Oops. Of course it's in KM's.

apexandy

Interesting test. Would it be safe to assume this information could be applied to my 4th gen engine? The 4th gen manual recommends the same viscosities per temperature range. I normally run 10w-40, but only ride my bike in 5-40*C weather. Would 0w-30 be a safe choice? And which mobil one are you using?

Thanks!

PS is that 92,000 miles on MR.RC45??

I know oil can labeling is confusing but If you understand what 0w30

actually means you'll note it falls under Honda's recommendations for

a 30 grade oil

API ranks the first number 0 and the letter W from the newest to the

oldest on its ability to lube your engine during critical start up...

0w

5W

10W

15W

20W

If you wish to employ the latest in oil technology then you want an one with an API

rank of 0W...

Technical speaking the first number (the "0" in 0w30) is only a

relative number which basically indicates how easily it will allow an

engine to "turn over" at low temperatures. It is NOT a viscosity

reference. In other words, a 0W30 is NOT a 0 weight oil in cold

temperatures and a 30 weight oil in warm temperatures... rather a 0w30

Mobil 1 actual viscosity is 57 cSt at 104F (40C) and 10.2 cSt at 212F

(100C) that means the oil was heated to 100 degrees C and it flowed

within a certain kinematic viscosity which is then classified with in

a certain SAE grade like the "30" in 0w30).

Oil Type......Viscosity 104° F....Viscosity 212° F

Straight 30.......98............................10

10W-30............67............................10

0W-30..............57............................10

The chart shows the only difference between the 30 grade oils are

viscosity during start up temp of 104ºF... the 0w oil lubricates your

poor starving bearing the quickest... this is important because the

most wear happens during start up before warm up...the straight 30

lubricates with noticeable longer times reaching the critical

bearings... only at operating temp of 212ºF are the oil viscosity

equal.. this is the engineering behind multi-grades... design an oil

that flows quick during start up but still provide a stable and robust

viscosity at operating temps...

Mr.RC45's Mobil 1 0W-30 found at WalMart...

[image: MrRC45MobilOne0w30.jpg]

Ow, my head.

Thanks for the info, I think.

Dont you get distracted by the KM/h speedo at all? I am surprised you never sourced OR MADE an new imperial faceplate, saved the other for posterity, since well you live in the USA and none of the speed limit signs are in metric.

BTW Larry, I moved the post to the homepage to feature it, and copied a pic at the top so it will show up on the HP too. good post

Those steam gauges look sooo cool, love them!

HispanicSlammer

Dont you get distracted by the KM/h speedo at all? I am surprised you never sourced OR MADE an new imperial faceplate, saved the other for posterity, since well you live in the USA and none of the speed limit signs are in metric.

BTW Larry, I moved the post to the homepage to feature it, and copied a pic at the top so it will show up on the HP too. good post

Thank you Miguel... I didn't replace the faceplate because the needle is glued on the shaft so if you look closely at the faceplate I've

added white digits 1 thru 9 that reference MPH with a 157 MPH top speed... on my trip to Canada it was fun to use the metric side...

Iirc, there was a lot of sturm und drang regarding the additives thought necessary for motorcycle gearboxes & wet clutch. And that the lighter oils are least likely to contain them. As I recall that is when some argued in favour of diesel-rated oil.

Personally, I've been using Motul 10/40 semi but you have me thinking it might be time to go light.

Lorne

Iirc, there was a lot of sturm und drang regarding the additives thought necessary for motorcycle gearboxes & wet clutch. And that the lighter oils are least likely to contain them. As I recall that is when some argued in favour of diesel-rated oil.

Personally, I've been using Motul 10/40 semi but you have me thinking it might be time to go light.

CLUTCH

Technically speaking there is no oils that can not defeat a wet clutch

in good working order... what is confusing the issue is the fact that

all motorcycle wet clutches will reach a point in their life and start

to slip... no one complains about clutch slip when the bike is new...

but on about the 27K to 57K range is when containments may build up to

point where the clutch begins to loose its grip... this is usually

discovered by the owner during WFO (Wide Fooking Open)throttle like at

a track day... in error one can blame the oil but its really the

contaminants on the clutch plates.

DIESEL

If you wish to run a diesel oil in your motorcycle then I recommend

one with an API rating CH-4 or higher because it is formulated for

"high speed" (what ever that means in a diesel) I hope it means some

kind of anti-foaming agent for high rpms...

Quote Api

CH-4 Severe-Duty Diesel Engine Service This service oils are

suitable for high speed, four-stroke diesel engines designed to meet

1998 exhaust emission standards and are specifically compounded for

use with diesel fuels ranging in sulfur content up to 0.5% weight.

CH-4 oils are superior in performance to those meeting API CF-4 and

API CG-4 and can effectively lubricate engines calling for those API

Service Categories.

SEMI SYNTHETICS

Semi-synthetic oils (also called 'synthetic blends') are blends of

mineral oil with no more than 30% synthetic oil designed to have many

of the benefits of synthetic oil without matching the cost of pure

synthetic oil. Motul introduced the first semi-synthetic motor oil in

1966

BusyLittleShop

Lorne

DIESEL

If you wish to run a diesel oil in your motorcycle then I recommend

one with an API rating CH-4 or higher because it is formulated for

"high speed" (what ever that means in a diesel) I hope it means some

kind of anti-foaming agent for high rpms...

My impression is that "high speed" for a diesel could very well only be ~3000 RPM, for some of those bigger rigs. Our bikes' ~11,000 RPM might be a bit out of that scale, but as you said, hopefully it's the presence of anti-foaming agents that counts.

Don't forget the turbocharger on that big diesel, spinning away at 100,000 RPM.

I think that qualifies as "high speed".

Love the " OH SHIT " meter Larry !!

Veefer800Canuck

Don't forget the turbocharger on that big diesel, spinning away at 100,000 RPM.

I think that qualifies as "high speed".

True but the mechanical issue that causes excessive aeration is not a 100k spinning ball bearing... the problem relates to crankshaft

speed at the rate of higher and higher RPMs...

[image: OilAeration_zpsbpa2ople.jpg]

BusyLittleShop

Veefer800Canuck

Don't forget the turbocharger on that big diesel, spinning away at 100,000 RPM.

I think that qualifies as "high speed".

True but the mechanical issue that causes excessive aeration is not a 100k spinning ball bearing... the problem relates to crankshaft

speed at the rate of higher and higher RPMs...

...

Larry,

Does the 5th gen have the same oil pump as Mr. RC45? Are your figures & measurements directly translatable to the 5th gen engines?

Thanks...

BusyLittleShop

Veefer800Canuck

Don't forget the turbocharger on that big diesel, spinning away at 100,000 RPM.

I think that qualifies as "high speed".

True but the mechanical issue that causes excessive aeration is not a 100k spinning ball bearing... the problem relates to crankshaft

speed at the rate of higher and higher RPMs...

[image: OilAeration_zpsbpa2ople.jpg]

Isn't it that's why a lot of race engines are dry sumped??

Rush2112

Larry,

Does the 5th gen have the same oil pump as Mr. RC45? Are your figures & measurements directly translatable to the 5th gen engines?

Thanks...

Yes... any VFR part that carries a MW4 designator was specifically

designed for the RC45... you can see that not only does the VFR and

RC45 share the same oil pump but also the same sprocket, chain and

pressure relief valve... so there is mounting evidence that our

figures & measurements are also the same...

RC45 VFR800 part numbers

15100-MW4-000 PUMP ASSY., OIL $154.45

15134-MZ5-000 SPROCKET (25T) $21.40

15140-ML7-003 CHAIN (48L) $19.83

15220-MZ5-000VALVE ASSY., RELIEF

I saw the oh sh*t gauge as well...what detector is that? How did you mount it so it would be effective?

So, recap on the oil....if the clutch plates are in proper condition we should be able to use automotive oil.

Lighter weight oil will flow better, but less pressure.

Correct... if your clutch plates are in good working order then the choice of oil is not a deciding factor...

Mr.RC45 is awful at lawful speeds... that's why I never ride without
my trusty a Bel 975r Remote radar detector...
[image: radar-detector-4.jpg]


I fabricated a special Delrin mount and blends the gauges with the
warning pod... I used wax transfer letters to spell out "Oh Shit"
[image: gallery_3131_51_68815.jpg]

I fabricated a small Delrin box to house the antenna and mounted it
under the fairing...
[image: 440378828_df19ed9d0b_o.jpg]

Even Mr.CHP gets a kick out of the "Oh Shit" on the signal pod...
[image: MrCHP_TrysOut_MrRC45.jpg]

Radar is under the jurisdiction of the FCC and its illegal to jam
whereas Lazer is under the jurisdiction of the Food and Drug
Administration and they are too busy with E Coli and traffickers to go
after Jammers at the moment...

Just read this post and the info is great but only viscosity and oil pressure at temp are being considered and although I believe that the newer oils will have better aeration and oxidation properties what about film thickness and sheer points which are what is critical in"high speed engines", I would still be vary wary of straying from the recommended oil. Synthetic over conventional oils will generally provide better qualities for high rpm applications. As wear increases in an engine and tolerances increase the thinner oils will not provide the same protection.

JohnnyImport

Just read this post and the info is great but only viscosity and oil pressure at temp are being considered and although I believe that the newer oils will have better aeration and oxidation properties what about film thickness and sheer points which are what is critical in"high speed engines", I would still be vary wary of straying from the recommended oil. Synthetic over conventional oils will generally provide better qualities for high rpm applications. As wear increases in an engine and tolerances increase the thinner oils will not provide the same protection.

What unit of measurement are you using judge "film thickness"???

30 grade oils are recommended for VFR as well as the RC45...

[image: 31395d1322690092-bored-winter-plans-rc45]

Not saying don't use 30 weight oil but switching from say a 10w to a 0w might not be the best idea. Cold engines don't need to make max horsepower there are other concerns besides throttle response etc. so a modern 10w will have all the benefits of a modern 0w, because most of the technology in oil is part of the additive package added to base oil stock. Just to clarify this is great information and props for doing all the leg work.

JohnnyImport

Not saying don't use 30 weight oil but switching from say a 10w to a 0w might not be the best idea. Cold engines don't need to make max horsepower there are other concerns besides throttle response etc. so a modern 10w will have all the benefits of a modern 0w, because most of the technology in oil is part of the additive package added to base oil stock. Just to clarify this is great information and props for doing all the leg work.

You're welcome Johnny... switching from the old 10w to the latest 0w is indeed

the best idea because the most wear happens during start up be fore warm up...

I know oil can labeling is confusing but If you understand what 0w30

actually means you'll note it falls under Honda's recommendations for

a 30 grade oil

API ranks the first number 0 and the letter W from the newest to the

oldest on its ability to lube your engine during critical start up...

0w

5W

10W

15W

20W

If you wish to employ the latest in oil technology then you want an one with an API

rank of 0W...

:lurk:

I always thought the starting numbers in multi-grade oil had to do with initial viscosity at cold weather starting temps... so a 5w would flow better with a lower viscosity than a 10w at the same cold engine temp...  0w would flow best at cold weather starting temps

...and the closer the numbers are the less the oil relies on additive packages to achieve the hot temp viscosity... so a 0w30 would need more additives to the base oil which expand and unravel with temp and increase viscosity at operating temp than a 10w30...

... Damn it, Jim...  I'm a microbiologist not an engineer... 

I could be wrong...

Thanks Rob for chiming in... I think we agree that a dyno is the
proper tool by which to learn the amount of hp lost running a 50 over
a 30... its no BS when I say that a 30 frees up another 6hp over the
50... so your lost is not a mere 0.9hp... its around 6hp... that
significant amount of hp left on the table in unnecessary oil drag...
key word is unnecessary because running a 30 does not show up as
increase wear... other benefits of running a 30 is more oil flowing pass the
critical bearings also less oil drag works to lower the over all temps...
Honda states an owner can safely choose a 30 I've personally tested
this recommendation in Mr.RC45 for 17 years covering 95,000km and just
look at my cam lobes they are PERFECT too...
 

[image: MrRC45CamGears.jpg]
 

Oh and another thing. Synthetic is NO longer true, as only a couple of companies now make true synthetic oils. This web link is great debunk of the rip off we are faced with when we pay premium for what we think is synthetic due to OLD Judges, being useless & ruling that anything can be called synthetic, when we all expect a 100% man made product that never came out of a hole in the ground ! 

http://www.synlube.com/synthetic.htm

Mobil-1 used to be, but alas no more. Strange they replace the synthetic with dino oil but the price stayed the same !

Like much in this world QUALITY has been sacrificed on the accountants alter by the marketing man !

Everything I read this article I'm reminded that debating true
synthetics is like debating the true motorcycle... everyone agrees a
motorcycle is a motor and two wheels but disagree on the execution...
everyone agrees synthetics are oil molecules engineered to be uniform
and consistent in size but disagree on the origins... but synthetics
aren't for everyone... especially my customers who close their wallets
with a torque wrench... they believe the old mineral with all its flaws works fine...
 

[image: SyntheticMineral Oil2.png]

Hi Larry, well I'll be sticking with 10w30 as no perceived or proven worth in the lower W numbers from my PoV based on my area ambient temps. The lesser stretch from 10-30 compared to 0-30 means less additives & a more consistently stable oil. It is interesting that the multigrade 30's operate as 10 weight oils at 100C, but then I never looked at what a straight 30 weight oil operated like at 100C which is also 10 for those that may be interested.

So as far as synthetics are concerned, they used to be Grade IV oils which are chemically created lubricants, but now almost all are Grade III dyno oils, yes some have been micro filtered to provide a uniform molecule size, but as Shell demonstrated the COST is more than stock oils, but much less than true synthetics, yet the price we the consumer pay has not reduced, even though what we are buying is fake by name i.e. its NOT synthetic, it is only highly refined ! So should be 25-30% cheaper, assuming its double the price of normal good quality dino oil.

Can I quote your use of 10w30??? like how many miles  and what are your wear rates???

I'm surprised engine oil is as cheap as it is given the fact out of a 42 gallon barrel of crude only 0.5 of a gallon can be extracted...

[image: 42GalOilProductsChart.jpg]

Sh*t an oil thread.  Must resist but ... can't...

I just have to comment on one thing -

"The lesser stretch from 10-30 compared to 0-30 means less additives"

Is no longer relevant if you are running PAO or ester based synthetics.  The additives required to do this are viscosity index improvers (VI improvers, VIIs) which are not necessary given that the base stock of many oils can achieve the "stretch" without using any additives.  I have heard on unimpeachable authority that some of the synthetic oils are labeled "worse" I.E. a 10W-40 that actually performs as a 0W-40 at low temperatures; because owners and operators will not buy the 0W for the same reasons you state above.  The manufacturer is actually only running one production line since no VIIs are needed to achieve the 0W rating and the additive package (which has NO bearing on viscosity, commonly known as the DI package) is the same.  Motor oil = base stock + VII (if needed) + DI