So I have been forever telling myself that I will do a throttle body sync on my VFRs and now that I sold one of my riding suits, I want to use some of that money to buy a synchronizer setup so I can do it myself. I have done some internet searching and found that the Emgo 4 dial kit seems to be the most prevalent on eBay and other places but the Motion Pro Sync Pro is on most moto specific sites i.e. Revzilla, Motorcycle Superstore, etc. I wanted to know if anyone has any experience with either and any caveats of either that they could share.
I have found a couple of places that with cost plus shipping or cost with free shipping these two kits are withing $3-$5 of each other, so unless there are specific "gotchas" with either or an agreement of one being better, I was going to toss a coin and grab one of the two.
I have the Motion Pro unit, works great! When I first got it and was leaning how to use it, I accidently spilled out the blue fluid it uses and their customer service was excellent, they sent me two more containers of it for nothing. The dials look good, but I think the vertical tubes are easier to read. I do not know how it works on other then 4th gen, but you might need an aux fuel tank if you have to move the tank for adjusting.
I really like my Morgan Carbtune (http://www.carbtune.com/), probably not the most dead accurate way to balance carbs/TBs but there is nothing to spill or calibrate and is very convenient.
Thanks for the quick reply guys. I have seen the how-to video of the Motion Pro and it looked easy to calibrate and operate so it is definitely on the list. I'll look more into the Carbtune, thanks for the link.
I have the Motion Pro. It'll do the job, but there are two things I ran into. Neither was a big problem.
1. The markings up the side are just evenly spaced marks and don't necessarily correspond to any standard units. No problem if you want to set everything the same but if you want to do the staggered setup where each cylinder is at a different vacuum you're out of luck.
2. If you store it with the hoses connected instead of pulling them and capping the stubs the water part of the blue juice will evaporate, resulting in dissassembly, cleaning and a new bottle of blue juice. Not a big job but mildly annoying.
It works fine for setting them flat, but if I had my time back I'd probably opt for the Emgo one if it wasn't too much more, mainly for the scale and the storage case. A scale probably would have helped me find my vacuum leak a couple of years earlier...
This is what I used. I'd say its about as good as it gets.
I did a cursory search and can't seem to find any place that sells Kowa Seiki tools, but ironically their U.S. Office is pretty close to me! They're in Cerritos, CA which is the next city over from where I live. Where did you buy yours from CandyRed?
I made my own for around ten bucks. I later changed to Auto trans fluid for ease of read it has synced dozens of bikes.
if you want a scale on it you can buy sticky measuring tape or simply use a ruler and draw lines
I thought I saw a thread where you mentioned building this but it didn't come up in a search, or at least I didn't see it. I thought about doing something similar as well.
I have an old Motion Pro one with mercury in it. The last couple of times I've tried to use it, I get a lot of bubbles in the mercury making it worthless. I've read things to try to get them to go away, but honestly just haven't spent the time messing with it. I've looked at the newer ones several times, but everyone seems to think the mercury filled ones are the best......if they are working right. At one time I thought I had some spare mercury for it, but haven't located it yet in my garage. Not sure if it got lost in one of the moves or is just hiding in a good spot.
Sorry, not much help, but will be watching this thread to see what you end up with and if you are happy with it. There was a guy making them on Advrider at one time too. Everyone raved about them, but I think they were limited runs. Some sort of digital one.
I made my own for around ten bucks. I later changed to Auto trans fluid for ease of read it has synced dozens of bikes.
if you want a scale on it you can buy sticky measuring tape or simply use a ruler and draw lines
I thought I saw a thread where you mentioned building this but it didn't come up in a search, or at least I didn't see it. I thought about doing something similar as well.
I bought the tubing at home depot I think and the t's and straight connectors to hook up to the bike at auto zone. a piece of scrap wood some zip ties.
I tried to use antifreeze as a fluid but it was too thin if the bike is remotely out of sink it will try to suck up the fluid in a hurry so i changed to atf it allows more time until you
get it close the draw back to this is it takes more time for it to settle to zero before retest. it works but its also a learning curve.
y2kRC46 - did you put any type of orifices in the lines? That would help prevent the engine from sucking in the fluid so quickly. I think the Motion Pro stick I have has orifices in all 4 lines. Probably a more accurate way to measure as well since those would have a much closer tolerance on them then just a hose.
y2kRC46 - did you put any type of orifices in the lines? That would help prevent the engine from sucking in the fluid so quickly. I think the Motion Pro stick I have has orifices in all 4 lines. Probably a more accurate way to measure as well since those would have a much closer tolerance on them then just a hose.
I was thinking the same thing, although now that I think about it even more, fluid based systems will have one inherit problem....the fluid. Similar to not having any mercury to replace in yours, the Motion Pro fluid also has potential for evaporating, at least that's what Motion Pro cautions about and a few reviewers have said. They do sell replacement fluid, but unless you had a spare bottle laying around, wouldn't it suck if you went to use the tool and found all the fluid gone.
Needle gauges and the Kowa Seiki KEK-55-64 digital unit, which appears to be made from unobtainium BTW, would not have this issue. I'm sure the home made ATF version would be a little better fluid based unit, as ATF is more readily available, it definitely wouldn't be very accurate IMO, but how accurate would one need to be to sync them evenly. Having to do offset levels, that would be a different story. Starting to lean towards the gauge (Emgo) style synchronizer. For $77 it isn't a bad price, and it even comes with a case.
I have one from my old carb bikes, and found it is useless on my VFR.
I beg to differ. Manifold vacuum is manifold vacuum whether there are carbs or throttle bodies upstream. But now you have me curious as to exactly how accurate this setup is, so I will "borrow" a NIST calibrated Magnehelic differential pressure gauge from work...for the good of mankind...or something. :wink:
No restriction, I believe it would make the reaction time of the fluid I am using too slow.
And if it is it warm in your work space the fluid moves along with your adjustments quite quickly.
I got around the orifices by using Long lines and actually made a taller version of the one pictured and hang it from the ceiling with a tie strap.
Your sync would have to be really bad to suck fluid up before you can hit the kill switch or turn off the bike.
also if it does try to do that you will see the cylinder that is doing all the pulling and adjust it back until it no longer wants all the air/fluid.
Then balance from there. I have seen motion pros empty themselves into a bike before you could react if you weren't prepared.
Since this is oil based if it does suck some fluid in it will burn off but I'm not sure how well a liquid metal compresses or burns but really
Don't want to find out the hard way and this was easy and affordable and actually kind fun to make something and saving money towards other accessories.
I also noticed that if it is that far out that by the time you get it close the fluid warms up from moving in the tubes I guess or being close to a warm bike
that the reaction time of the fluid is really quick. not like mercury or thinner fluid but it dances with the vacuum pulses. If a minute or two in time is no big deal it does work.
A honda tech told me to block the pair vents with one half of a thin sandwich bag or saran wrap by removing the tubes on the valve covers and laying the
plastic over the nipple on the valve cover and gently sliding the hose back on to the nipple. remove in reverse if your bike is still pair equipped.
I also balance them even so if you want to do the staggered sync you may want to do the measuring tape or draw lines on the back board
I have one from my old carb bikes, and found it is useless on my VFR.
I beg to differ. Manifold vacuum is manifold vacuum whether there are carbs or throttle bodies upstream. But now you have me curious as to exactly how accurate this setup is, so I will "borrow" a NIST calibrated Magnehelic differential pressure gauge from work...for the good of mankind...or something. :wink:
Please do, I have the Morgan CarbTune and was wondering why it wouldn't work. It should be just as accurate as a mercury filled one.
I use the vinyl tube mounted on a furring strip filled with ATF. Cheap, and very sensitive. A simple loop will do since you have one reference point, and can only adjust one TB or carb at a time anyway. As long as they're all even you're good.
I used the motion pro today works great as good or better then mercury. Has 40cmhg max = 400mmhg, I gave each line 15mmhg value to stagger vacuum levels per manual.
How's this for coincidence, on one of the other forums I frequent, a member was selling his Motion Pro Sync Pro for $75 (shipped from AZ), so I pulled the trigger. Although I was leaning in the other direction earlier (Emgo style), I figured this was a sign. We'll see how it goes and I'll update the class once I get a chance to work with it.
I could not tell any difference between balanced or offset at idol, and been advised throttle response may be better with offset so went offset this time.
there is a video on youtube from motion pro sync showing how to use, make sure the small restricters are in the hoses and at the bike end of the hose.
#3 was off about 30mmhg since last sync 2 yrs ago, before breaking and chasing mercury around the garage, the two headed mice seem much lager now.
I could not tell any difference between balanced or offset at idol, and been advised throttle response may be better with offset so went offset this time.
there is a video on youtube from motion pro sync showing how to use, make sure the small restricters are in the hoses and at the bike end of the hose.
#3 was off about 30mmhg since last sync 2 yrs ago, before breaking and chasing mercury around the garage, the two headed mice seem much lager now.
Plugs look good, full system w/ air box mods, custom PC map, and having to keep RPM's between 6-11000 trying and keep you in site, and your just cruising at 4000rpm pointing out all the scenery when I'm trying to focus on not blowing the next turn = 25mpg ;)
I used the motion pro today works great as good or better then mercury. Has 40cmhg max = 400mmhg, I gave each line 15mmhg value to stagger vacuum levels per manual.
I checked my Motion Pro against the gauge on my vacuum bleeder. The blue fluid response seems non linear vs a vac gauge, but I would say if anything each unit is a bit less than 10mm Hg.
I'd also agree that off idle response doesn't seem much different balanced or staggered. So long as they're near enough the idle sounds alright to me.
Thx for checking against a gauge, that really helps! i was giving them a value based on motionpro having a max of 400mmHg, but did not know if that was within measurements or end to end and no one at motionpro new either. So i figured 12.5-17.5 and split the difference at 15mmHg, knowing +_5 would keep me within tolerance.
How's this for coincidence, on one of the other forums I frequent, a member was selling his Motion Pro Sync Pro for $75 (shipped from AZ), so I pulled the trigger. Although I was leaning in the other direction earlier (Emgo style), I figured this was a sign. We'll see how it goes and I'll update the class once I get a chance to work with it.
Cheers
I never thought I would be quoting myself :laugh: but the seller text me yesterday and said that UPS called him to tell him that there was an accident and that one of the drivers ran over a pallet of boxes, thus crushing the one headed for me! So back to the drawing board...From unobtanium to outright pricey, looks like unless I find the Kawa Seiki or the VacuumMate at a decent price, I'll be heading toward the Emgo style like I was originally planning. Just waiting for my refund from the seller. :sad:
So I have yet to synch my starter valves and the only tool I have now is the board with the long tubing and ATF inside. It worked great on my ninja 250 and made the little beast idle and run great but I'm wondering how I could use it for the vfr.
I was thinking 3 are adjustable, one is fixed. Hook up one end of the tubing to the fixed and synch all three to that one. Then go buy a simple vacuum gauge (one dial) and hook that one up to the one that needs to be lower by a certain amount and back it off using the dial.
I think doing one adjustable starter valve at a time would be ok just more time consuming. Assuming you're working on a 5th gen the valves are not all synched exactly to the fixed one, two of them are offset and by different amounts.
So I have yet to synch my starter valves and the only tool I have now is the board with the long tubing and ATF inside. It worked great on my ninja 250 and made the little beast idle and run great but I'm wondering how I could use it for the vfr.
I was thinking 3 are adjustable, one is fixed. Hook up one end of the tubing to the fixed and synch all three to that one. Then go buy a simple vacuum gauge (one dial) and hook that one up to the one that needs to be lower by a certain amount and back it off using the dial.
Any reason that would not work?
Keep in mind, as you're adjusting the vacuum of one cylinder, the vacuum of the other three will change.
Now why would the vacuum change between 1 and 2 by adjusting say 3? I can understand that idle speed might change but I can't see how that would affect the relative vacuum difference between the other two valves. Not saying you're wrong I just don't understand why that would occur.
While installing my PAIR block-off plates I decided I'd check and sync the starter valves. The HSM seems a bit odd when it comes to the starter valves. It shows there are 4 of them, notes that #1 is non-adjustable, lists the adjustments for 3 and 4, but totally omits the setting for #2. So I set them evenly and I guess I'll see how that works out. I used my Morgan CarbTune and it worked like a champ. The graduations are in cm so it's fairly easy to set them.
The service manual could be written more clearly. What it does say (and I'm paraphrasing here) is to set them all the same, then offset 3 and 4. That means that 2 stays the same as 1. TBH I'm not sure whether the offset makes much difference to an even set up.
Okay, I went back downstairs and reread the pertinent paragraph, and it now makes sense. Thank you for the explanation. It's clear as day after you know how it works. :beer:
End of thread · 43 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 12 Sep 2017