15Mpg? Omg...fml

Hey my little sweethearts...

So I got about 65 miles to my first tank full of petrol, sniffle.  Now before I get into this.  If you have approximately eleventeen minutes spare, watch this.  This is my commute into the city.  I dare ya to count how many times I get out of second, how many traffic lights I encounter and how many times I had to mute it due to excessive cussing.  PLEASE factor this situation before saying "but I get 200 miles to a tank".  Of course you do, you ride in America where the roads are empty in comparison to ours and have no bends (kiddin...kiddin....).  But yeah, take the below into consideration, I care not for your 100 miles open road commute to your mums house, it has no bearing on the below or my poor fuel economy situation.

[video: https://youtube.com/embed/_sAKrqZ1zd8?html5=1&fs=1]

Boom.

Now, I appreciate the following:

1. heavy bike

2. twelve hundred si-si's

3. heavy bike with twelve hundred si-si's

I would have expected about 100 miles to the tank in the worse case scenario - lots of thrashing, traffic light dashes etc etc.  But noooooo, I take it relatively easy on this thing as I don't fancy bouncing a power wheelie in front of some police and UK roads are like that of Kosovo circa 98 to 99.  Plus I respect my own life and would rather take that to the track these days.

Any ideas?  Pads seem to drag a bit but I've been informed they're a bit noisier than usual on these bikes due to have about three hundred pads up front.  I've changed the fluids for front and rear brakes just to make sure - this seems to stop the dragging just after the change but it returned after a ride out, neither disc is hotter than the other after a ride so I don't think they're binding.

Bike's been fully serviced every 3000 miles or less as its an ex police bike.

Drive shaft was...for use of a better term....f*cked.  It's now been replaced like-for-like until the re-engineered bit is with UK dealers.

Tyres are brand new PR3's, 36psi up front, 42 on the rear when cold.

Oil is golden, bike idles perfectly, filter is brand new (both oil and air), plugs were replaced about 50 miles ago.

Ideas?  Is this to be expected?

OHHHHH and before Dutchy chimes in and tells me I have the wrong bike....not bothered fella, move along, I like the bike and it's staying, I'm just wondering if this is normal.

Thanks!

Nothing seems wrong. If you can make some time take a day trip in the country and see if you get a more " normal" tank range. If its still crap you have a problem to hunt

You have obviously speak of Southern California, or San Francisco where the roads are never congested with traffic.  I commute about 7 miles, and have probably 50 stop lights and only a few spots to get out of second gear, so most time is spent filtering.  I averaged 27 MPG (US) compared to 36 MPG on the 5th gen.  So I'm seeing 100 miles/ tank, and your traffic is worse.  At least I don't have to filter on the oncoming traffic side.  Yikes!  Do you run premium?  It seems to help. 

I bought the bike 600 miles away and rode it home at an average speed that I will not post (posted speed was 70 MPH for reference), and averaged 42 MPG.  That was on the open, non congested highways you speak of.  Matched or bettered the 5th gen considering the speeds. These bikes like open spaces.

BTW California gas sucks and ruins mileage because it is formulated to reduce emissions.  I see a 2 mpg gain in my truck when I fuel up out of state.

And yes Dutchy, the 5th gen is superior for filtering and commuting, but I'm with johnlondon, even though the 7th gen sucks (fuel) it is here to stay.  Hey, Johnlondon, gas is cheap (at least here), so who cares?

I didn't even make it a minute in that video. If I had that to deal with, I'd never ride! That seriously gave me anxiety to watch it. 

I agree with Aimbot, get the bike out in the countryside and open space and ride however is normal for you. Figure out your mpg (or kilometer per litre) and then figure out if you need to dig into it.

If there is something wrong, would a dyno run be a good idea? I have never done one, but I assume it should tell you if you are running overly rich. If there is something wrong, perhaps a ECU flash would be warranted?! 

thermostat stuck open or gummed up injectors?

thermostat stuck open or gummed up injectors?

Was thinking the former.  Doubt the latter as there'd no hesitation through the range and it pulls really, really hard without fault.  Where's the thermostat located on this bike, on the 750's it's really awkwardly placed underneath the carbs, can be got at without removing anything other than the side fairings but it requires wacky shaped tools to do it.

You have obviously speak of Southern California, or San Francisco where the roads are never congested with traffic.  I commute about 7 miles, and have probably 50 stop lights and only a few spots to get out of second gear, so most time is spent filtering.  I averaged 27 MPG (US) compared to 36 MPG on the 5th gen.  So I'm seeing 100 miles/ tank, and your traffic is worse.  At least I don't have to filter on the oncoming traffic side.  Yikes!  Do you run premium?  It seems to help. 

I bought the bike 600 miles away and rode it home at an average speed that I will not post (posted speed was 70 MPH for reference), and averaged 42 MPG.  That was on the open, non congested highways you speak of.  Matched or bettered the 5th gen considering the speeds. These bikes like open spaces.

BTW California gas sucks and ruins mileage because it is formulated to reduce emissions.  I see a 2 mpg gain in my truck when I fuel up out of state.

And yes Dutchy, the 5th gen is superior for filtering and commuting, but I'm with johnlondon, even though the 7th gen sucks (fuel) it is here to stay.  Hey, Johnlondon, gas is cheap (at least here), so who cares?

Did Dutchy reply?  I can't see it...maybe he's blocked me *sniffle*

I have a third gen, no VFR is better than the other for filtering.  The weighting of this bike is superior to the earlier bikes by a long shot.  Just seems double as thirsty.  But then it is putting about 60hp more out at the rear wheel haha

I'll probably go for a long ride at some point soon, bit cold and boring this time of year as the roads are clogged with people in cars.  In the summer it lets up a bit as people walk/cycle more.  I'll report back when I get a chance.

what camera do you use?
it is going up hill... [image: emoji38.png]
that might help.
Or not.




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I didn't even make it a minute in that video. If I had that to deal with, I'd never ride! That seriously gave me anxiety to watch it. 

I agree with Aimbot, get the bike out in the countryside and open space and ride however is normal for you. Figure out your mpg (or kilometer per litre) and then figure out if you need to dig into it.

If there is something wrong, would a dyno run be a good idea? I have never done one, but I assume it should tell you if you are running overly rich. If there is something wrong, perhaps a ECU flash would be warranted?! 

I've never known any different.  And as weird as it sounds, filtering here in London on roads like that is FAR safer than doing it outside of London.  There's so many bikers in this city that 90% of the drivers are courteous enough to move out of the way and expect you to filter past.  I've had old friends get killed up north near Manchester on big open roads, people pulling out from junctions...you know the score....it's rare that happens down here.

what camera do you use?
it is going up hill... [image: emoji38.png]
that might help.
Or not.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Drift HD.  I only have it set to 720p to help conserve battery so it doesn't look the best there.  Does the job in case of a topple that's someone else's fault though.  And no, the ride is pretty flat both ways, I wouldn't expect a slight incline to murder MPG like that.

ooh.. I ment... it is not leveled.
Tilting...
pfft..
Sorry!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

ooh.. I ment... it is not leveled.
Tilting...
pfft..
Sorry!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ha!  I was wondering if you meant that.  Yeah, I really don't want the speedo on show, most of London is a 20mph speed limit and lots of police around to pull you over.

Is the bike operating in the normal temperature range? Does it get up to and pasted 77C relatively quickly?

It certainly gets warm quick, fan cutting in every few minutes while filtering.  Didn't make a note of the actual temp but the bars (if memory serves me right) go about half way.  

In fact, pause the vid at 10:14 and you can see the temp gauge, bang on half way.  That's literally 11 minutes or so of riding.  I start filming when I get onto the main road at the beginning

I know very little about the 1200 so take this with a large grain of salt... On the VTEC, which is not the bike you're riding, the temperature sensor has two outputs, one for the dash display and one for the ECU. If your bike has a similar setup, it's possible that your dash gauge is fine but your ECU thinks the motor is cold.

My terrible fuel economy was caused by a vacuum leak.

The scooter gotcha at 7:16 , I would find me a TL200 and ride it. London Bridge ?

I believe that's the Tower Bridge in the video.   The older version of London Bridge was moved stone by stone to Lake Havasu, Arizona and re-assembled.  (Been on both).  If I'm not mistaken there's a newer version of London Bridge that's part of the A3 just West of Tower Bridge.

When I was in London I was amazed by the number of bikes (and also the VFR's!).  Watching this video really illustrates why.  If I lived there, I'd ride everywhere I went!  

johnlondon.

I SERIOUSLY FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!!

Stay Safe mate

I believe that's the Tower Bridge in the video.   The older version of London Bridge was moved stone by stone to Lake Havasu, Arizona and re-assembled.  (Been on both).  If I'm not mistaken there's a newer version of London Bridge that's part of the A3 just West of Tower Bridge.

When I was in London I was amazed by the number of bikes (and also the VFR's!).  Watching this video really illustrates why.  If I lived there, I'd ride everywhere I went!  

Yeah London Bridge is a lot older .

Yeah London Bridge is a lot older .

I hear it's falling down...

Maybe I missed it but does this bike have the stock fueling? Stock programming?

This reminds me of fabulous time commuting in NYC.  That was fold your mirrors kinda tight.  Most time spent idling.  Got avg of 150 miles to a tank.

I believe that's the Tower Bridge in the video.   The older version of London Bridge was moved stone by stone to Lake Havasu, Arizona and re-assembled.  (Been on both).  If I'm not mistaken there's a newer version of London Bridge that's part of the A3 just West of Tower Bridge.
 
When I was in London I was amazed by the number of bikes (and also the VFR's!).  Watching this video really illustrates why.  If I lived there, I'd ride everywhere I went!

That is Tower Bridge travelling South to North of the river. At 8:45 John looks left and the next bridge up is London Bridge. In between the two is HMS Belfast.

I would be ready for a pint ! 

I know very little about the 1200 so take this with a large grain of salt... On the VTEC, which is not the bike you're riding, the temperature sensor has two outputs, one for the dash display and one for the ECU. If your bike has a similar setup, it's possible that your dash gauge is fine but your ECU thinks the motor is cold.

My terrible fuel economy was caused by a vacuum leak.

Are you talking about the coolant temperature sensor or the two ambient air sensors (one for the dash, one for the fuel injection)?

And JL... Wow!

I thought it was just you at first and then I saw the rest of the bikes join in the fun... I learned to ride in the North Jersey / New York City area where filtering was done but not legal and definitely will get you pulled over by the LEOs.

I know very little about the 1200 so take this with a large grain of salt... On the VTEC, which is not the bike you're riding, the temperature sensor has two outputs, one for the dash display and one for the ECU. If your bike has a similar setup, it's possible that your dash gauge is fine but your ECU thinks the motor is cold.
My terrible fuel economy was caused by a vacuum leak.

 
Are you talking about the coolant temperature sensor or the two ambient air sensors (one for the dash, one for the fuel injection)?
And JL... Wow!
I thought it was just you at first and then I saw the rest of the bikes join in the fun... I learned to ride in the North Jersey / New York City area where filtering was done but not legal and definitely will get you pulled over by the LEOs.

Hi Rush2112.
Dawson is talking about the ECT Sensor, it has two outputs one for the Fuel Injection System (ECM) and the other to your instruments for engine temperature display.
The ambient air temperature indication comes from a separate sensor and doesn't talk to the ECM.

Do you know this guy.

http://www.vfrdiscus...r/#entry1029071

https://youtu.be/VPnUdUAUO40?t=31

the ECU needs ambient temp info for cold starting etc

i live in Northern NJ/NYC area too.....filtering will get you killed here...if you're lucky, just lose a leg

I haven't bothered to read the 3 pages of reply here, but I'll give you my 2p anyway, so forgive my ignorance if something has already been mentioned.

I also live in London, zone 2. I have to travel from the west to the east, straight thru the heart of the city on the ring road. My commute to work is just over 8 miles. I barely leave 2nd gear, and find myself in 1st far too much then I'd like.

I get about 85-95 miles before hitting reserve, which I think is about 15L. Some days the traffic flows nicely or I'm riding at 6am in the morning, and I would get around 95 miles. Other days it's just crap and I'm weaving in and out non-stop, and I get around 80 miles.

It's interesting that you say the pads drag, because it does it to mine too. I thought my brakes were stuffed, but every time I remove and clean the callipers and put the pads back in, they are fine for another week or so. That is until they accumulate more crap from road.

I come from Australia and I had a Blackbird before this bike, it also used the dual braking system. I never had an issue with the pads dragging at all. However, I believe that the roads here are worse, not only from the condition of the potholes, but because of the constant light rain flicking up the very fine silt, dirt, crap.... whatever is on the road. I never had that issue back home, I also never had to clean my callipers either. So I think the accumulation of all this road crap just messes up your brake pistons, causing them not to retract fully into the calliper. Which is why I tend to pull my callipers off and give them a bit of a clean every 6 months or so.

It's good to hear your story about your commute and experiences with the bike, as it pretty much lines up with mine.

You two need to team up and ride in together .

Hey Rush, Grum cleared it up. Was talking about the ECT sensor. Just wanted to point out that the dash display may not be an accurate representation of what the ECU is seeing.

I haven't bothered to read the 3 pages of reply here, but I'll give you my 2p anyway, so forgive my ignorance if something has already been mentioned.

I also live in London, zone 2. I have to travel from the west to the east, straight thru the heart of the city on the ring road. My commute to work is just over 8 miles. I barely leave 2nd gear, and find myself in 1st far too much then I'd like.

I get about 85-95 miles before hitting reserve, which I think is about 15L. Some days the traffic flows nicely or I'm riding at 6am in the morning, and I would get around 95 miles. Other days it's just crap and I'm weaving in and out non-stop, and I get around 80 miles.

It's interesting that you say the pads drag, because it does it to mine too. I thought my brakes were stuffed, but every time I remove and clean the callipers and put the pads back in, they are fine for another week or so. That is until they accumulate more crap from road.

I come from Australia and I had a Blackbird before this bike, it also used the dual braking system. I never had an issue with the pads dragging at all. However, I believe that the roads here are worse, not only from the condition of the potholes, but because of the constant light rain flicking up the very fine silt, dirt, crap.... whatever is on the road. I never had that issue back home, I also never had to clean my callipers either. So I think the accumulation of all this road crap just messes up your brake pistons, causing them not to retract fully into the calliper. Which is why I tend to pull my callipers off and give them a bit of a clean every 6 months or so.

It's good to hear your story about your commute and experiences with the bike, as it pretty much lines up with mine.

Hey mate,

Yeah, just like me - rarely leave 2nd.  I reckon I'm going to give it two more weeks and see what the average MPG is.  If it's awful, I'll be putting the bike away and only using it for long rides out.

The Honda dealer advised me it's normal for the brakes to sound like they're dragging.  I find the bike is a beast to push around the garage, but at around 280kg, it's no surprise.   Where abouts in west London are you?  I used to live in Ealing and then Shepherds Bush for a while.  Moved out to Weybridge then met the Mrs and moved in with her outside Greenwich.

I find it amazing that the calipers are so easily affected by our roads, all my other bikes have been fine - albeit giving them a strip and clean once every two years as I ride year round, the past couple of winters have been very mild though.

So it sounds like you're getting better mpg than me, do you tend to keep it under a certain rpm?  Maybe I've done the usual first-week-with-a-bike thing and opened it up a bit too much.  Either way, shockingly bad economy regardless of the weight and power.

I just took mine for a good romp in the county. Averaged 40mpg compared to my normal sub 30 commuting. This bike just likes open spaces. Talked to a guy at work on a ninja 1000 and he averages 30mpg with a 1000cc bike that is 100 pounds lighter. Seem normal to me. Just not great.

Hey mate,

Yeah, just like me - rarely leave 2nd.  I reckon I'm going to give it two more weeks and see what the average MPG is.  If it's awful, I'll be putting the bike away and only using it for long rides out.

The Honda dealer advised me it's normal for the brakes to sound like they're dragging.  I find the bike is a beast to push around the garage, but at around 280kg, it's no surprise.   Where abouts in west London are you?  I used to live in Ealing and then Shepherds Bush for a while.  Moved out to Weybridge then met the Mrs and moved in with her outside Greenwich.

I find it amazing that the calipers are so easily affected by our roads, all my other bikes have been fine - albeit giving them a strip and clean once every two years as I ride year round, the past couple of winters have been very mild though.

So it sounds like you're getting better mpg than me, do you tend to keep it under a certain rpm?  Maybe I've done the usual first-week-with-a-bike thing and opened it up a bit too much.  Either way, shockingly bad economy regardless of the weight and power.

I live out near Maida Vale, and commute over to Canary Wharf. I don't do nearly as much commuting as I did the year before, I tend to catch the tube more as it's easy door-to-door travel. When I do, thou, I usually flick between 1st/2nd, with anything over 20mph being 2nd gear. If I remember correctly that usually sits me at around 3,000rpm, rarely would I ever break 4,000 because of the speed of the traffic.

To give you a better idea of my fuel economy I've attached a screenshot of my fuel-up app that I use. I've been using it since day one, entered in every single fill up I've done (I'm a bit fussy like that), including all my servicing too (not shown).

Attached Images

• [image: Screenshot_2016-02-28-11-42-05.jpg]

Makes my butthole purse up when I see petrol costs like that haha, madness isn't it.

Disadvantage shaft drive - cannot alter the gearing for low speed commuting.  That probably would be the biggest help.

JohnLondon would you please add this bike to your profile? I don't always look at the discussion group but first look at peoples' profiles.

Only feedback from the bike can tell the definite story. Yes the long freeway jaunt with a very gentle throttle will return the maximum mileage, an excellent comparison point. Another feedback loop is to have a dyno shop do a gas analysis and perhaps read the ECU to see if the programming is stock or altered. 

I have a friend

I thought we talked about these fantasies of yours??? ;-)

Have to agree with Skids though. I can get good mileage on a A to B run but equally have easily emptied it in less than 80 miles when playing out in the country lanes. I could easily imagine getting the mpg the OP quotes on a commute like that. It's how you use that big V4.

John, having watched your vid I don't envy you your commute but would suggest that your fuel consumption is reasonable when you consider the bike and the way you have to ride it; lots of short acceleration (which uses a lot of fuel for not much distance) in a low gear, repeated many, many times. On later models, you can monitor the fuel consumption so others could expose their 1200s to similar conditions & I bet they'd get similar results.

I guess the only way to know for sure, as has been suggested, is to take it out on a nice cruise up a decent stretch of motorway. On my commute to work up the A1 I get ~47mpg. If you get anywhere near that, then there's nothing wrong with the bike and it's the environment you find yourself in that is causing it. If you can find some back roads, then you'll get closer to 40mpg, but again it depends how you ride it. I have a friend and when we rode our 6th Gens together, he'd always put more fuel in than me and we figured out it was because he always kept the revs in the 4-valve range ie a lower gear than me.

I really think it's the way you have to ride the bike that's causing such an issue.

JMHO.

Yeah, no doubt.  Kind of already resigned to that thinking tbh.  Big heavy bastard large capacity V4 is never going to be healthy on fuel when you're riding like I do.  TBF the engine is barely getting time to warm up before I arrive at work as well haha.

In all honesty, I don't want to keep the bike.  I love the power, love the brakes, love the obvious build quality - but I just can't gel with it, it's too heavy and lumbering, too much labour is required to throw it around.  I was riding my 750 for the past week and it was ear to ear grins the whole time (but with almost as bad fuel economy haha).  I just can't find another VFR that I love more.  So this one has to go.  No denying it's a great bike, though.

John, having watched your vid I don't envy you your commute but would suggest that your fuel consumption is reasonable when you consider the bike and the way you have to ride it; lots of short acceleration (which uses a lot of fuel for not much distance) in a low gear, repeated many, many times. On later models, you can monitor the fuel consumption so others could expose their 1200s to similar conditions & I bet they'd get similar results.

I guess the only way to know for sure, as has been suggested, is to take it out on a nice cruise up a decent stretch of motorway. On my commute to work up the A1 I get ~47mpg. If you get anywhere near that, then there's nothing wrong with the bike and it's the environment you find yourself in that is causing it. If you can find some back roads, then you'll get closer to 40mpg, but again it depends how you ride it. I have a friend and when we rode our 6th Gens together, he'd always put more fuel in than me and we figured out it was because he always kept the revs in the 4-valve range ie a lower gear than me.

I really think it's the way you have to ride the bike that's causing such an issue.

JMHO.

Yeah, no doubt.  Kind of already resigned to that thinking tbh.  Big heavy bastard large capacity V4 is never going to be healthy on fuel when you're riding like I do.  TBF the engine is barely getting time to warm up before I arrive at work as well haha.

In all honesty, I don't want to keep the bike.  I love the power, love the brakes, love the obvious build quality - but I just can't gel with it, it's too heavy and lumbering, too much labour is required to throw it around.  I was riding my 750 for the past week and it was ear to ear grins the whole time (but with almost as bad fuel economy haha).  I just can't find another VFR that I love more.  So this one has to go.  No denying it's a great bike, though.

Do you feel that way because the way you have to ride it? It's not what it was designed for. And if you are prepared to spend some cash on the suspension, you can get it to handle as well as an 800, and as easy too.

Perhaps you need to buy a commuter bike and make sure you get out of town on the 1200 a little more. :wink:

No to the way I ride it.  Also, no matter the suspension, it's never going to flick side to side as well as something lighter and with a not-so-wide rear tyre, it is what it is.  I pined after one of these bikes for ages and it just isn't what I expected it to be.

It's just not an exciting, involved bike.  That's my opinion, has nothing to do with the route, roads or traffic.  It's just too bloated in my opinion.  

raise the fork tubes a few mm's in the triple trees.

This reminds me of fabulous time commuting in NYC.  That was fold your mirrors kinda tight.  Most time spent idling.  Got avg of 150 miles to a tank.

I commute every day in NYC.

150 miles to a tank is still a lot better than 15 MPG.

Only time I ever got such poor mileage out of a tank of gas was at WOT for most of the tank on my 5th gen.

Which actually tends to get relatively good mileage under most circumstances.

I wuz in a hurry that day.  ;-)

I bet I could bring it down to 40 miles to the tank if I rode it like I do my VFR750.