My guess is using the nut to tighten it to Honda specified torque may have compromised the case, and when the oil pressure got up (during a pass) it failed.
I'm lucky that I didn't crashed as there was oil spewing all over my tires.
So lesson learned, don't use the nut to tighten it. Given that there's no space to work with on the US Interceptor that means I won't be using K&N ever again.
As always, your results may vary. This seems to be a common issue though of late.
Holy Crap!!!! That looks serious. Glad you survived the ordeal. Stuff the Honda specified torque!!! Have never torqued an oil filter on all my cars and motorbikes for over 40 years and never had a leakage or failure. Hand tightened nice and firm with a smear of oil on the seal has never let me down.
Hopefully nothing would have entered your engine and a new filter and oil will see you going again. Be interested if K&N have anything to say about this, of course they will probably say you over tightened it!!
Definitely share this experience with K&N. I certainly couldn't imagine my HiFloFiltro or Bosch filters coming apart like this so it must be the whole 'nut on the top' design.
Why would anyone buy a K&N Oil filter ? They have been independantly tested & proven to be very poor quality compared to OEM, or major brand manufacturers replacement filters.
Why would anyone buy a K&N Oil filter ? They have been independantly tested & proven to be very poor quality compared to OEM, or major brand manufacturers replacement filters.
I've had Oil analysis's done with K&N oil filters and they came back fine.
I had one fail last year on my girlfriend's bike while we were at TMAC. It was just leaking a little though, not an oil dump. I did not use the nut to tighten the filter either and will never use another K&N oil filter. I had 3 sitting on the shelf too and was going to throw them away but another member asked if he could have them for the cost of shipping. To me, a $10 filter is not worth risking my life.
Not a new issue- I posted about this here years ago, had it happen on two separate bikes. Do a little searching and you will find two things- it's common, and K&N apparently could not care less.
I've had Oil analysis's done with K&N oil filters and they came back fine.
The Nut on the end is the problem.
People who change their oil regularly & keep their engine tune in good order, don't really need a filter ! The problem is eveyone else that doesn't & they need a VERY good quality filter, which the K&N is NOT.
YMMV as well as YOCMV (Your Oil Containment May Vary !)
No, multiple leaking filters IS proof of poor quality.
I was referring to when Mohawk said they were "independently proven to be of very poor quality compared to OEM" to mean in relation to the filters filtration properties. Because I have seen and read the opposite to that statement. They filter just fine.
The argument about them leaking can easily be said to be from over-tightening from the nut.
I remember that thread with the female rider that had the same leak. It too was from over tightening from the nut.
I have had multiple K&N oil filters and they never leaked.
Having said that I always use factory filters and wouldn't want to use any filter that even a fraction of the community said they had leaking issues with. Not worth your life.
OK so the NUT should NEVER be used to tighten a spin-on oil filter they are called that for a reason spin on HAND tight ONLY ! The Nut is for taking them off if that damages the shell who cares its on its way to the bin !
As far as quality goes, this is notionally a cost-V-function equation, so if something costs twice as much the expectation of quality is that it wold be twice as good.
The K&N oil filter test results I have read over the years show its no better than a cheapo filter & not better than an OEM or a major brand like Champion etc. So you are payting twice the price of OEM/Major Brand, or 3-4x more than a cheap filter for NO gain other than a nut, when a filter strap will last your lifetime & undo any brand filter !
Yes, as mentioned, same thing happened to lady over at VFRWorld. If you go to K&N's website or any other and look up that filter KN-204, every time in the description field it reads that the nut on end is for quick removal of old filter. It should never be used to tighten as the filter is supposed to be hand tight when installed.
Agreed, Company needs to do something as this seems to be very common mistake and easy one to make at that whether they label product differently or something else.
OK so the NUT should NEVER be used to tighten a spin-on oil filter they are called that for a reason spin on HAND tight ONLY ! The Nut is for taking them off if that damages the shell who cares its on its way to the bin !
Yup! Agreed! 100%. Even K&N states the nut is for fast and easy wrench-off removal not installation.
9 minutes ago, Mohawk
As far as quality goes, this is notionally a cost-V-function equation, so if something costs twice as much the expectation of quality is that it wold be twice as good.
The K&N oil filter test results I have read over the years show its no better than a cheapo filter & not better than an OEM or a major brand like Champion etc. So you are payting twice the price of OEM/Major Brand, or 3-4x more than a cheap filter for NO gain other than a nut, when a filter strap will last your lifetime & undo any brand filter !
Ahhh! So it's a "Are you paying for as much as you're getting?" equation.
I guess it could be argued that you are paying a little extra $$ for the ability to safety wire the filter, and the Nut to removed the filter and of course that fancy pants name. But none of that is really a big deal to me....and these are similar price to factory filters around where I live.
Well we can agree to disagree. :beer: I have had many Used Oil Analysis done on both factory and K&N filters and the K&N did well.
Yes, as mentioned, same thing happened to lady over at VFRWorld. If you go to K&N's website or any other and look up that filter KN-204, every time in the description field it reads that the nut on end is for quick removal of old filter. It should never be used to tighten as the filter is supposed to be hand tight when installed.
Agreed, Company needs to do something as this seems to be very common mistake and easy one to make at that whether they label product differently or something else.
The problem is, I did not use the nut for installation, in either of my two cases, and i'm not the only one who had a problem when not using the nut, either. The spot-weld tends to weaken the cap.
Making matters worse, the problem doesn't occur until some time after installation.
In addition, circa 2008-2010, the website copy certainly did refer to "ease of installation" with the nut. The "wrench off" language is more recent.
Personally I stopped using the K&N oil filters due to several post regarding failure and a few that pointed out other shortcomings. Actually I would rather pay more for something I know has not experienced failure, from both proper or improper installation.
In the case of the VFRW member, she used a torque wrench and the recommended torque value in the Honda service manual, so over tightening might be considered a "grey area". Yes, I know the nut is not used for installation but if they were smart, they would add a sticker like they do for their air filters pointing out it's for the removal only purpose, of course this would only add to the cost of the filters! :wink:
Ehh, for the cost of the K&N, think I will stick with some of the recommended others below. Think they are over-priced and some of the others must work as good if not better. Plus, with all the hoopla about problems with the K&N, obviously, something ain't right.
I have only used a K&N oil filter once, it came free with the oil I bought. I had no problem with leaks but when it came time to remove it the nut simply rounded off duee to corrosion. This was surprising as it had only been fitted 4000 miles previously at the start of the summer. In 6 dryish months it had rotted away.
As I was reading this thread I kept thinking "I can't be the only one who knows this right?"
I'll admit that I didn't know this! I've used K&N filters before (might be one on there right now, in fact). I don't explicitly buy them but that's what I've been given when I've gone to buy a filter at the local Honda dealer. From now on I'll be sure to only use the nut to remove the filter. And yes, I do have an oil filter socket.
If the failure does come down to using the nut to tighten (in my case, to the Honda spec), then why doesn't K&N specify not to use the nut to tighten on the package?
If Honda is specifying a torque value, then they intend for us to use a torque wrench. Initially I hand tightened this filter, it leaked around the gasket while running, so I attached my wrench and tightened it to the manual spec.
There's not a lot of room, I can't attach a wrench to an oil filter cap, so the only way I'm mounting it to a torque spec is with a nut-end filter. The Fram I replaced it with I did hand tight plus one full rotation (per the box instructions) using a cap wrench.
YMMV as always, not looking to argue or be told I should have known.
I never knew changing an oil filter could be so challenging. I've had a few get stuck on my bikes, the original on my VFR broke a screwdriver, then just ripped when I got a beefier one, but some of these posts take it way too seriously.
I would regard myself as well informed and moderately intelligent, and I had no idea that the nut on a K&N filter was NOT to be used for installation. I don't recall there being any advisory text on the filter or packaging either.
I had 2 fail at the welded on nut (dripping, not catastrophic). After that, I only ever used the hiflo with no issues.
The one good thing I've learned from this post is I will NEVER bother with a K & N oil filter. Only ever used the OEM or HiFlow HF204's with no issues at all.
I had 2 fail at the welded on nut (dripping, not catastrophic). After that, I only ever used the hiflo with no issues.
Ironically, I read that HiFlo makes the K&N filters...
Sorry, I cannot buy the idea that "over-torquing" the nut on the end of a metal filter housing could cause any kind of failure. How much torque are we talking about, anyway? Enough to start to twist the welded nut off the sheet metal? Who TF uses that much torque installing an oil filter?
If the failures are related to the nut area, the apparent manufacturing defect was most likely present before (and after) anyone got near it with a wrench...
Ironically, I read that HiFlo makes the K&N filters...
Sorry, I cannot buy the idea that "over-torquing" the nut on the end of a metal filter housing could cause any kind of failure. How much torque are we talking about, anyway? Enough to start to twist the welded nut off the sheet metal? Who TF uses that much torque installing an oil filter?
If the failures are related to the nut area, the apparent manufacturing defect was most likely present before (and after) anyone got near it with a wrench...
Ciao,
According to the 2002-2009 Honda FSM, 20 ft. lbs is called for on the Oil Filter (Engine Oil Filter Cartridge). Oil drain bolt is listed at 22 ft. lbs.
It isn't really a nut. It's thin metal sheet that's stamped into the shape of a nut with a small flange on the bottom that is then spot welded to the filter. I think on some of them, the welder is set too hot and it burns through a little bit, causing a thin spot that eventually either leaks slowly, or fails suddenly with a large fracture.
It seems odd to me that there have been reports of this type of failure from owners for at least the last 5 years and yet they just keep churning them out. Like it seems with everything else, something extremely serious will probably need to happen for it to change.
K&N powersports oil filters contain a modern synthetic filter media, designed for ultimate flow with less pressure drop, yet engineered for outstanding filtration. K&N powersports 'spin-on' oil filters feature a heavy-duty metal can.
Most of these have a 17 mm nut affixed onto the end that allows for easy installation and removal. The 17 mm nut is crossed-drilled so racers can safety wire the filter to their bike.
It is not worth saving a few pennies on oil or filters, stick to an original Honda oil filter, at least you may have some redress if it all goes wrong.......
I use the K&N filter mainly for the ease of the front nut install but I don't torque the filter down just do it up to a resistance I'm happy with, but I have had one leak from o-ring over time & heat cycles. After reading this thread I'm not using them anymore, it is better to be safe than sorry, thanks for posting op.
With my old CBR600F4 after so many years of using the Fram filter I had 2 choices to pick from, the K&N, and the OEM Honda filter because Fram stopped making the filter I used for years on that bike. The fram cost me $6.99, the OEM Honda cost me $10 if I remember right (it was a much longer drive to get one), and the K&N was $12.99 or so. I used a K&N for around 3 oil changes, there was a very small leak from under the nut on K&N filter number 3 (3rd year using K&N oil filters), but it was small enough that I had to look closely to see where it came from. That K&N filter was difficult to remove (not sure why, I always hand install oil filters snug only), it was the first time I ever used the nut on the filter to remove one, it started to round off and suddenly the spot welded sheet metal nut just popped off of the filter easily revealing a very small leak where one of the spot welds (there are a few small spot welds holding the sheet metal nut on only) burned right through the filter casing, or it rusted through the spot weld. The nut was rusted around the edge, rusted on the spot welds, and rusted under the nut, the other K&N filters did not have this problem, I wonder if they found another supplier to get their filters made at some point in time. After this experience I never bought another K&N filter, a few years later I see thousands of complaints online about K&N oil filters leaking under and around the nut on all types of vehicles, the nut breaking off, rusting, and some of the filters leaking suddenly and very badly while riding/driving. For my 2014 VFR800 I will only use the OEM Honda filter unless I can find Fram filters for it, maybe. I pay $10.99 for an OEM filter at the dealership. Just changed the oil today in fact. My original oil filter put up a big fight coming off at 600 miles, I had to punch a hole through the filter with a long screwdriver and turn the filter loose, why would anyone ever tighten an oil filter that much? I always clean the contact surface on the engine with a rag and check the new filters gasket, then put a bit of oil on the oil filter gasket before installing it by hand only. I dont know the amount of torque because I have installed oil filters by hand for 26 years plus and never measured it. I believe its turn until gasket contact, then tighten 1/2 turn by hand only.[image: kQaVqyFN9MaOTr0kmXVezoL9r8AKHlrxEnKk7vPF]
Wow, just put one on the race bike. After I got home I was looking for more track days, and found a website (all east coast tracks) and they said they would not let you on the track with a K&N filter, as they have had several on-track failures. I guess I will remove it and put a stock Zuki one on......glad nothing bad happened!
There is a user rating right there on the site. Anyone who has personally had a problem should rate the filter on their site! So far they are all five stars. Or, maybe others did rate them, and the low ratings were removed. Here's to conspiracy theories.
This is on their website as i type this (bold and underscore added for emphasis)
K&N powersports oil filters contain a modern synthetic filter media, designed for ultimate flow with less pressure drop, yet engineered for outstanding filtration. K&N powersports 'spin-on' oil filters feature a heavy-duty metal can. Most of these have a 17 mm nut affixed onto the end that allows for easy installation and removal. The 17 mm nut is crossed-drilled so racers can safety wire the filter to their bike.
This is on their website as i type this (bold and underscore added for emphasis)
K&N powersports oil filters contain a modern synthetic filter media, designed for ultimate flow with less pressure drop, yet engineered for outstanding filtration. K&N powersports 'spin-on' oil filters feature a heavy-duty metal can. Most of these have a 17 mm nut affixed onto the end that allows for easy installation and removal. The 17 mm nut is crossed-drilled so racers can safety wire the filter to their bike.
This is on their website as i type this (bold and underscore added for emphasis)
K&N powersports oil filters contain a modern synthetic filter media, designed for ultimate flow with less pressure drop, yet engineered for outstanding filtration. K&N powersports 'spin-on' oil filters feature a heavy-duty metal can. Most of these have a 17 mm nut affixed onto the end that allows for easy installation and removal. The 17 mm nut is crossed-drilled so racers can safety wire the filter to their bike.
I realise what you are trying to say.
Did you read the 3 links I put up?
Not it one of them states what you have highlighted in bold.
Reason being because they are from the UK website. May I suggest that you have a look at them a bit closer and you will see where I am coming from.
You have quoted from the American website and it is only on that page it mentions what you have copied in bold. Follow the rest of the filter links and see if it is repeated. You will also see that they are called wrench off filters on the other pages. US site. :wink:
The second link you posted states "17mm Hex Nut Allows Easy-On, Easy Wrench-Off*". Guess without reading the fine print it would be extremely logical that you could both tighten and remove the filter via the hex nut and wrench. I've never used one BUT the packing should state something like WARNING - Hex nut is for REMOVAL only
Not it one of them states what you have highlighted in bold.
You have quoted from the American website and it is only on that page it mentions what you have copied in bold. Follow the rest of the filter links and see if it is repeated. You will also see that they are called wrench off filters on the other pages. US site. :wink:
9 hours ago, Grum
Hi Fink.
The second link you posted states "17mm Hex Nut Allows Easy-On, Easy Wrench-Off*". Guess without reading the fine print it would be extremely logical that you could both tighten and remove the filter via the hex nut and wrench. I've never used one BUT the packing should state something like WARNING - Hex nut is for REMOVAL only
VFRD is a very odd place to hear Latin quoted, much less Latin associated with common law jurisprudence. Has this phrase somehow entered common usage? :wink:
VFRD is a very odd place to hear Latin quoted, much less Latin associated with common law jurisprudence. Has this phrase somehow entered common usage? :wink:
Why even bother justifying their existence. Plenty of other good filters to choose from. I used ONE years ago, without a problem, but after reading horror stories, I quickly switched. I have used their air filters for years, so I was drawn by the name, not the product.
I think I experienced a failure last night. All of a sudden I saw smoke streaming, pulled over and noticed oil dripping out onto the exhaust. Oil seems to be coming out from the oil filter area. Will pull plastics and photograph this evening. Wish I had known about these failures, I bought the K & N based on brand recognition, but now that I think about it, I had another fail on my Ninja after an oil change last summer, though fortunately I didn't make it out of the driveway.
I'm still amazed at how many riders don't know about the K&N issue(s). With all of the oil threads and what's the best "this or that", the K&N issue would be more widely known. Well hopefully Cujo, your lesson wasn't an expensive one.
I just did an oil service and replaced a K&N with a Honda OEM one. I have to admit that I had forgotten I had one but fortunately it hung in there for 16K km and 3 years.
I think I experienced a failure last night. All of a sudden I saw smoke streaming, pulled over and noticed oil dripping out onto the exhaust. Oil seems to be coming out from the oil filter area. Will pull plastics and photograph this evening. Wish I had known about these failures, I bought the K & N based on brand recognition, but now that I think about it, I had another fail on my Ninja after an oil change last summer, though fortunately I didn't make it out of the driveway.
Based on brand recognition I stick with OEM filters, brake pads, clutch plates, etc.
I just did an oil service and replaced a K&N with a Honda OEM one. I have to admit that I had forgotten I had one but fortunately it hung in there for 16K km and 3 years.
The nut sure made it easy to remove though. :-)
16K KM and 3 years?!!!!!
That's way too long between oil changes...according to the vast majority of experts and owners manuals.
That's way too long between oil changes...according to the vast majority of experts and owners manuals.
So I've been told. I didn't do it on purpose, just forgot, but I do use Motul 5100 4T oil. I even posted in this thread in June 2016 that I may even have a K&N filter on there. Turns out I did.
End of thread · 73 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 13 Dec 2024
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