Unleashing 5th Gen Factory Power + DMr + Thurn MS

I was lucky to come across a mint condition Red 2001 with 12k miles. It only had two owners and just got serviced at the dealer. It has Heli Bars, Corbin Gumfighter,Zero Gravity and a Vance and Hines SR2 exhaust.

My plan is to spend $2k to unleash all the factory "built-in" power and plus some well proven and reliable  "add-on" power that will not drastically reduce the engine life.

Plus another $1k for the good folks at DMR for suspension upgrades.

it took me about a month to find and buy this bike, another week to get it registered and tagged and another month to find the parts.

The first thing I did was send the Corbin seat back to Corbin to get redone like new. (In the meantime I found a like new OEM seat for $80 on ebay)

Here is a breakdown of how I am spending the $2k on unleashing the engine, plus another $1k at DMr for beefing up the suspension  for the added power. (Everything is ordered and on the way)

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Nov 5 Update:

Now that the headers are installed, the double snorkel (no flapper)air box mod with a fresh K & N filter and adding 3oz Lucus octane boost every fill up. Still waiting on Euro ECU to show up before I do any new fuel mappings. DMr suspension kit has shipped. Also waiting on 2nd engine clutch cover. First job is to switch out the stator with a $50- el cheapie china stator so I can get my OEM over to Gerhard, along with the engine case clutch cover. As far as riding the bike all week, its starting to really open up 😄😃

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That sounds like a very good find and some interesting work you are going to carry out.

Best of luck and keep us informed! 

Welcome to the site.   :beer:

Good find :)

Neither the snorkel nor flapper is necessary. Check out my Big airbox mod.

YMMV on the exhaust as there are mixed reports about the quality & the sloppy welding, it's NOT a performance exhaust.

Have fun with the new toy :)

Not trying to put a wet blanket on your party, but all that shoud get you around an extra 6HP maximum.

Much better to spend that sort of money on suspension, that will really transform the bike.

6HP will only do so much, a higher corner enrty speed will do a lot more.

I used to spend my time reving crap out of my bike, now I just use the mid range and don't use the brakes as much coming into a corner, come out much quicker.

39 minutes ago, Mohawk

Good find :)

Neither the snorkel nor flapper is necessary. Check out my Big airbox mod.

YMMV on the exhaust as there are mixed reports about the quality & the sloppy welding, it's NOT a performance exhaust.

Have fun with the new toy :)

The airbox, flapper and pair valve disconnect is a $20 mod based upon this information which appears to be reliable :

http://johnny.chadda.se/pair-and-flapper-mod-with-bonus-snorkel-mod-for-vfr/

I "guess-reversed engineered" by looking at the snorkel and the flapper then visualized the air box without the flapper, it appears the snorkel is sized for 50% the airbox airflow, so cutting out the flapper with a dremel tool, then fit up the second snorkel and it should look "factory" (like the flapper was never there) and possibly function the way the airbox was designed before somebody decided to add the flapper. Hopefully the last planned step, the final DynoTech custom tune will tell the truth with actual numbers from the Dyno.

2 hours ago, VFROZ

Not trying to put a wet blanket on your party, but all that shoud get you around an extra 6HP maximum.

Much better to spend that sort of money on suspension, that will really transform the bike.

6HP will only do so much, a higher corner enrty speed will do a lot more.

I used to spend my time reving crap out of my bike, now I just use the mid range and don't use the brakes as much coming into a corner, come out much quicker.

Good point, I'll do suspension and brakes next and would like your list of suspension and brake mods and costs.

meanwhile back to unleashing factory power mods, what I could do, for a little bit more money, is get the VFR "pre-mod" baselined at the DynoTech shop, then have them install these particular mini-mods and then compare, that might be the "creditable" thing to do, show some numbers for the sake of the VFR forum readers to assist in determining actual cost per added HP, at least for this particular bundle of mini-mods :)

3 hours ago, Skids

That sounds like a very good find and some interesting work you are going to carry out.

Best of luck and keep us informed! 

Welcome to the site.   :beer:

Thanx ! I'm trying to present possibilities to performance without breaking the bank or having to borrow money to own a motorcycle. Thie entire effort is costing about $6k cash money, I paid $3k for the VFR, $1k at RevZilla for a new Red Shoei, Tourmaster mesh jacket, 2 pairs of gloves and 2 bike covers and the tail bag.  Then another $2k for the mods. I should be able to hang with the big boys, for the most part, not be in debt and be able to get out for about what I spent.

Whilst you can unleash a modest amount of power with some investment, you'll still run into weight vs power issues so if you want to "hang with the big boys", I think you'd get more bang for the buck by investing in suspension & braking upgrades. The 800 is so driveable that better handling/stopping will reap far better rewards on the twisties than extra bhp.

Unless yr talking those long straight roads we see in the movies so often.

7 hours ago, VFROZ

Not trying to put a wet blanket on your party, but all that shoud get you around an extra 6HP maximum.

Much better to spend that sort of money on suspension, that will really transform the bike.

6HP will only do so much, a higher corner enrty speed will do a lot more.

I used to spend my time reving crap out of my bike, now I just use the mid range and don't use the brakes as much coming into a corner, come out much quicker.

I'm going to have to side with VFROZ, suspension is the number one mod any serious VFR sport rider should do, before any other "performance" mod. A fast and/or powerful uncontrollable bike doesn't get you very far, but a decent powered and fast capable bike that you can control will get you everywhere!

All three of my bikes have gone to DMr for upgrades and so far, happy with all three. The ROI for his services has been one of the best I have received on any of the mods I have done to any of the bikes..

I totally agree and  followed your advice and have submitted a Service Request to Jamie at DMr for a fork kit and a new shock. This adds $1k to the build. So now not only should it look and sound its best, it will also handle better. Thank you this is why this is a great forum :)

yeah but once you go faster & handle better you will want better brakes. I'm +25hp, -33Kg, all new brakes & suspension, its like a different bike.

YMMV

It's totally agree, can you post what's the right thing to do with the brakes ? I'm thinking 6 disc calipers from a CBR with brembo rotors rotors, EBC pads and SS brake lines, or about $1200- ?

A brake upgrade usually requires a de-link and replacement of (at least) the fork lowers. VTR1000F Superhawk lowers can be used in place of the VFR, that will enable you to bolt on your choice of 4-piston calipers from a CBR600F4, 954 or SP1/2. You then need to fabricate brackets to mate the VFR mudguard to the forks but that is no big deal, and the wheel/spacers/axle/discs/stanchions/s;prings/dampers etc from the VFR are re-used. Ideally you need a bigger diameter rear mc (eg CBR600F4) to prevent an over-excitable back brake, and you can re-use the dual rear brake lines, mated to a double banjo bolt at the master. EBC HH pads are then the icing on the cake. 

Ok,  this ought to be fun to watch happen. I'm all ears seeing I'm at the half way point. Next is getting my hands on some unattainable. from that I'll work the air box mod.  Like what the guys have thrown up,  suspension first.  you got that.  Yes,  I can't speak highly enough for Jamie, top notch.   I'd work towards the simple mods. pair and snorkel isn't a big deal, not much if any gains. the euro ECU is another myth I ran into here,  thinking it had a better advance built in. it doesn't.  though if you want to go crazy $$ Rapid bike makes a great set up, but it will cost you.  I'm not sold for the $$ if it's worth it.   Me, I went PC3 and haven't had any regrets.  Have it to do the de,link here this winter when I'm healed up. that's a nice up grade not to sure if the brakes will be better. can't hurt. but I can't stand the linked brake feel,  so it's gota go. speaking of brakes if you do a complete front end swap you can with a bit of fitment install R1, CBR Gsxr brakes.  there's a few here that have done this,  one set up I looked at was the 954s,  But?? again what gains can really be had other than feel??      If you can look at what Mohawk has done,  those wheels are like the holy grail.  All in all you have a great platform, but don't lose sight of what it is vs. the likes of a ducati cbr gsxr. just saying those bikes or hot but you'll never get the VFR in that league. I'm not saying it won't be compatible as in most cases it comes down to the rider making a bike do what it does. it's  just two different machines,  in that I have a CBR for my cure,  but man o man is the VFR a great ride.  I'm keeping an eye on this.  BTW,  you're not to far away ;) 

Very fortunate to have such timely and valuable responses from the members that matter, this forum a a very spirited "call to order" ! 

Jamie has my order built It's going to be here any day. It will certainly put the suspension in a state of readiness as the power and response gets unleashed "bit by bit." This week I got in touch with Gerhard at Sturn Motosports in Germany, along with the clutch Window will also be relocating the rectifier and also be getting a German hand wound  " reinforced stator and rectifier". This will maximize the output capacity of electrical system so there are no gaps in unleashing all factory power. The double snorkel airbox is to revert back to the original attributes of design basis intent, before it got down powered with emission regulations. The brakes will eventually be addressed my right now this bike lives in wide open spaces, no traffic, no traffic lights, very long , uninhabited open roads, perfect for testing. Just with the Black Widow "no-cat" headers it's already running 10 degrees Fahrenheit cooler and it climbs with wide open throttle right up to 155 mph showing on the speedometer, before it would start to level off speed at 143. I am expecting with addition of the K & N filter, Power Commander lll with O2 eliminator and Euro Fuel mapping (this is why I went with the German Euro ECU because the fuel mappings available) and the high level Staintune, it's going to keep climbing quickly right up to 160 mph, in a most responsive manner. I am expecting very subtle increments based on combination of all the mods. In the very end it will get a special Jet Aircraft grade  " slipstream" polish which add 5 mph over 120 mph, again very subtle, bit by bit and don't leave anything on the table !

 (Btw mod cost spending is now up to about $4000)

All this hub-bub and no 8-spoke rear wheel upgrade, powdercoated to a minty shine?  WTF?  LOL!

I would say, forego the CBR rear shock and just have Jamie re-do your rear shock to your liking.  Then spend the money on the 8-spoke rear wheel plus powder coat both wheels to dark gold, upgrade your headlight bulbs to whatever suits your fancy, LED rear taillights, (do you have the matching rear seat cowl?), then maybe a very nice, GIVI tank bag with a tank lock.  Might as well add steel braided hoses (in red of course), and maybe a nice set of rear sets.  Why not?  Go splurge a bit more!  In the end you will have a bike that is unique, has great performance, and looks new too! 

Definitely going to need to hook up next summer and compare notes, If you ever get down this way let me know ;)

In the pic of twin snorkel on the bike (pic 8), is that piece of foam still in infront of snorkels. If so that can be taken out.

Cheers 

The purpose of pic 8 is showing the twin snorkel fits fine , with adequate and proportional clearance and space, in screwed down position There is in fact S relation between the diameters of the 4 intake round manifolds and the dual square inlet of each snorkel , so with two snorkels this is restored to that same proportion, so the airbox is serving its overall purpose to both draw in cool air and protect excessive debris with the turned down positing . I would go as far to say at some point durung the original basis, this is what the airbox looked like on the drawing board and then the flapper was added for a totally different purpose.So iit got "erased" with my  dremel tool, So negative , there is "no foam"and I'll get better pictures  in better light when I have the tank in the ypnposition during the next round of the installations. I think it sounds and breathes perfect now with a twin snorkel, the little beast has its  nostrel fully restored with plastic surgery, its like it can fully breathe through its nose now, just like it was meant to by original creator, thus unleashing yet another tid bit of factory power, so now nothing is getting left on the drawing board.

You need to request a name change to 4k1GoneWild...... :beer:

And if I may ask, how much do YOU weigh??  And how much less COULD you be?

If you want nothing left on the drawing board, this may be an avenue to explore too.

Lost ~24 pounds this summer by watching and limiting WHAT I eat, without being hungry or sacrificing eating tasty food...

Being fit and at your ideal weight makes riding ANY bike a whole lot easier.  It also means your existing suspension doesn't work as hard as if you weighed 20-50 lbs. more.  Kind of like strapping a 50 lbs. ruck sack on your back.  Takes a lot more energy to move around with it, whether you're going up and down stairs or just walking on a flat surface.

14 hours ago, Rogue_Biker

All this hub-bub and no 8-spoke rear wheel upgrade, powdercoated to a minty shine?  WTF?  LOL!

I would say, forego the CBR rear shock and just have Jamie re-do your rear shock to your liking.  Then spend the money on the 8-spoke rear wheel plus powder coat both wheels to dark gold, upgrade your headlight bulbs to whatever suits your fancy, LED rear taillights, (do you have the matching rear seat cowl?), then maybe a very nice, GIVI tank bag with a tank lock.  Might as well add steel braided hoses (in red of course), and maybe a nice set of rear sets.  Why not?  Go splurge a bit more!  In the end you will have a bike that is unique, has great performance, and looks new too! 

Where are people getting LED tail lights?  Are they just using replacement bulbs in the stock housing or is there a whole new unit offered by someone?

 Actually I think most of those aftermarket type of made in China " cheapen" the bike and I do not plan on buying or installing anything (besides a temporary part) whatsoever from China on this bike, ever, period. For example I just bought a $50 made in China stator for the purpose of being able to use the bike after removing the OEM to send to Thurn Motorsport ( Made in Germany) to be rewound for higher output and to match up with a higher capacity recitifier ( Made in Germany) so my VFR will have a Made In Germany electrical generation system. I would not be able to sleep at night with a Made in China electrical generation system because at some point it will unexpectedly and prematurely fail and need to be replaced, 

http://www.thurn-motorsport.de/html/blinker-leuchten-rc46-1.html

Drop Gerhard an email and he (or his staff) will advise on shipping

Awesome Dutchy thanks so much!!!!

Gerhard's units are probably manufactured in the F.E., but he tests verifies, checks the prototypes and only when happy will he offer (I saw how he went through that for the 4th gen)

I have an Ohlins out back, and a CBR F4i front end with de-linked brakes.  If I want more HP and a lighter bike I will buy an FJ-09 or a new Tuono...

I love my VFR...

The gear driven cam VFR's with fuel injection are in a league of their own in the motorcycle world. 

At one point I bought a brand new MV Agusta SS America in 1978 and it also had gear driven cams, it's a mechanical marvel !

I am looking forward to changing out the suspension here soon,

8 hours ago, Epyon007

Where are people getting LED tail lights?  Are they just using replacement bulbs in the stock housing or is there a whole new unit offered by someone?

I seem to recall you can buy a whole new unit with LED brake/signals for the 5th & 6th Gen.  Try Ebay first but I'm pretty sure I saw these available last year.

Buy some 6th Gen triples and you have a few choices for your 5th gen front end.  OR, you can drop in AK-20's from Traxxion...in 5th gen or 6th gen forks...

Yes Gerhard is very communicative what's important is to indicate on the inbound international shipping is "part being temporarily imported for repairs, them will be export returned to USA" otherwise they get charged 20% VAT tax. I am also sending in my stator along with the clutch engine case. 

Has no one here scolded you for ignoring the originator of the VFR clear clutch cover; our very own SebSpeed? Forget the German cover and buy one from Seb! No offense to Thurn, I have their LED tail light. 

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about because I am new here. It appears the folks at Thurn Motorsport have a variety of high quality products, advice and services. I'm very pleased with Gerhard, and I know how to tell, so they are getting my business, just like Jamie at DMr, I can tell when it's going to be good to great. All I want to do is be an excellent customer and give my busness to the best shops in the world 😄

What he was saying is the clear clutch cover mod originated here, on these forums; a gentlemen by the name of SebSpeed does them. His work is top notch from what everyone says.

He is US based so no customs to deal with, either.

That's a possibility but it appears to be complicated "group sale" as a newbie, it's much simplier process with Gerhard at Thurn Motosports also getting a "high-output "German version of stator, rectifier, rectifier re-mount bracket kit and a rear hub cover and maybe a few other items of VFR interest, plus I think the pricing at $170 is better, but I'm not sure, I actually thought everybody was getting it from Thurn Motosports, it would be interesting to compare the workmanship side by side, nothing like a little competition to keep it balanced. I also think those German folks have very high standards and products, I'm fine with "mod in Germany" plus my Euro ECU has a big G on it  😃

Both covers are well made.

 Seb welds the "base ring" on, Gerhard glues it on (as done in car/aero industry).

I had the pleasure of owning a Sebspeed cover as well as buying various parts from Gerhard over the years (as well as meeting him and his "tech guy" in person).

2k1GoneWild, 11/4/2016 at 8:20 PM

That's a possibility but it appears to be complicated "group sale" as a newbie, it's much simplier process with Gerhard at Thurn Motosports also getting a "high-output "German version of stator, rectifier, rectifier re-mount bracket kit and a rear hub cover and maybe a few other items of VFR interest, plus I think the pricing at $170 is better, but I'm not sure, I actually thought everybody was getting it from Thurn Motosports, it would be interesting to compare the workmanship side by side, nothing like a little competition to keep it balanced. I also think those German folks have very high standards and products, I'm fine with "mod in Germany" plus my Euro ECU has a big G on it  😃

Had you asked me, you may have been pleased to find out that I have a few from the last run in stock, and would have been happy to accommodate you.

Also, I am German.

Good luck with your build sir.

I actually am still waiting for the 2nd clutch cover, that  I was informed I had to purchase, to show up. So if what you're saying is true and you have a windowed clutch cover ready, I could probably just return that cover and buy one from you ? 

Also so since you are German and there is a myth about the various ECU controlling engine performance, you do notice there are different part numbers on these ECU's along with an A and a G right ? So they are definitely " not the same " ? My Dyno is a big long open road country road in between two cotton fields and so far my bike climbs to about 160 mph before I have to slow it down for a slight curve. What happens when I shift from 5th to 6th gear, and how it pulls between 120 mph and 160 mph really tells me how much power the engine producing. For some reason I'm thinking that little black box with the capital G allows the engine to run better than that little box with capital A and it's not a myth, it's true.

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As with "the other company", I also require a donor cover to perform the mod on. This can be your cover from your bike, or a spare. All the details of the group buy would apply, aside from the free shipping and site donation. 

Send me a pm if you're interested in any other details or further info?

As for the ecu... I would think that if that letter is actually a country code, then it would be "DE" for Deutschland, not G for Germany? Researching the part number difference may provide more info. In any case, if there is a difference, it will be related to the fuel and ignition programming, which can be optimized by adding a power commander or other tuning device. 

Looks like G is good for Germany.

Honda Area Code Identification

• Honda Motorcycle Spare Parts Catalog.

The Honda Motorcycle Area Code Identification is alphabetical listed by country/region:
 

36 minutes ago, Egg on Leggs

Looks like G is good for Germany.

Honda Area Code Identification

Honda assigned area codes for to their vehicles to assign them to specific international markets. Mostly models with different area codes will have unique specifications. The area code for your market can be found on the Appliciable Serial Numbers drawing in the online electronic Honda spares catalog

To be sure the model in the online electronic Honda spare parts catalog matches your vehicle you have to check the Applicable Serial Numbers drawing.
 

• Honda Motorcycle Spare Parts Catalog.

The Honda Motorcycle Area Code Identification is alphabetical listed by country/region:
 

Country/Region	Area Code
ASIA HONDA	EA
AUSTRALIA	2U
AUSTRALIA	U
AUSTRALIA (MILE)	U
AUSTRALIA	U,2U
AUSTRALIA	U/A
AUSTRALIA	U/B
AUSTRALIA	U/C
AUSTRALIA	U/D
AUSTRALIA/MELBOURNE	UM
AUSTRALIAN AGRIC	UA
AUSTRALIAN AGRIC	UB
AUSTRALIAN POST.MIN.	UY
AUSTRIA	2AR
AUSTRIA	AR
BELGIUM	2B
BELGIUM	B
BELGIUM	BH
BELGIUM	VB
BRAZIL	BR
BURKINA FASO	BU
CALIFORNIA	AC
CAMBODJA	KH
CANADA	2CM
CANADA	C
CANADA	CA
CANADA	CM
CANADA	CM/A
CANADA	CM/B
CANADA	CM/C
CANADA	CM/D
DENMARK	DE
EGYPT	EG
ENGLAND	2E
ENGLAND	E
ENGLAND	E/A
ENGLAND	E/B
ENGLAND	E/C
ENGLAND	E/D
ENGLAND	E2
EUROPEAN DIR.SALES	2ED
EUROPEAN DIR.SALES	2ED/A
EUROPEAN DIR.SALES	2ED/B
EUROPEAN DIR.SALES	2ED/C
EUROPEAN DIR.SALES	2ED/D
EUROPEAN DIR.SALES	3ED
EUROPEAN DIR.SALES	ED
EUROPEAN DIR.SALES	ED/A
EUROPEAN DIR.SALES	ED/B
EUROPEAN DIR.SALES	ED/C
EUROPEAN DIR.SALES	ED/D
FINLAND	2FI
FINLAND	FI
FRANCE	2FI
FRANCE	F
FRANCE	F/A
FRANCE	F/B
FRANCE	F/C
FRANCE	F/D
FRANCE	F2
GEN.EXP. (SPANISH)	1L
GENERAL	D
GENERAL EXPORT	1K
GENERAL EXPORT	1M
GENERAL EXPORT	2DK
GENERAL EXPORT	2K
GENERAL EXPORT	2M
GENERAL EXPORT	4K
GENERAL EXPORT	5DK
GENERAL EXPORT	5DM
GENERAL EXPORT	6DK
GENERAL EXPORT	6DM
GENERAL EXPORT	7DK
GENERAL EXPORT	7DM
GENERAL EXPORT	8DK
GENERAL EXPORT	8DM
GENERAL EXPORT	D
GENERAL EXPORT	D-III
GENERAL EXPORT	D-V
GENERAL EXPORT	D1
GENERAL EXPORT	D2
GENERAL EXPORT	D3
GENERAL EXPORT	D3K
GENERAL EXPORT	D3M
GENERAL EXPORT	D4
GENERAL EXPORT	D5
GENERAL EXPORT	DII
GENERAL EXPORT	DK
GENERAL EXPORT	DK/A
GENERAL EXPORT	DL/B
GENERAL EXPORT	DK/DM
GENERAL EXPORT	DK1
GENERAL EXPORT	DM
GENERAL EXPORT	DS
GENERAL EXPORT	DW
GENERAL EXPORT	ED
GENERAL EXPORT	SK
GENERAL EXPORT	SM
GENERAL EXPORT	D1
GENERAL EXPORT	D2
GENERAL EXPORT 1	D1K
GENERAL EXPORT 1	D1M
GENERAL EXPORT 2	2K
GENERAL EXPORT 3	D3
GENERAL EXPORT 3	D3K
GENERAL EXPORT 3	D3M
GENERAL EXPORT 4	D4K
GENERAL EXPORT 4	D4M
GENERAL EXPORT 5	D5
GENERAL EXPORT 5	D5K
GENERAL EXPORT 5	D5M
GENERAL EXPORT 6	D6
GENERAL EXPORT 6	D6K
GENERAL EXPORT 6	D6M
GENERAL EXPORT 7	D7
GENERAL EXPORT 7	D7K
GENERAL EXPORT 7	D7M
GENERAL EXPORT 8	D8
GENERAL EXPORT 8	D8K
GENERAL EXPORT 8	D8M
GENERAL EXPORT 9	D9K
GENERAL EXPORT I	D-I
GENERAL EXPORT II	D2
GENERAL EXPORT III	D-III
GERMANY	1G
GERMANY	2G
GERMANY	3G
GERMANY	G
GERMANY	G1
GERMANY	G2
GERMANY	YC
GREAT BRITTAIN	GB
GREECE	GR
HONGKONG	HK
INDIA	ID
INDONESIA	IN
IRAQ	IA
IRELAND	IL
IRELAND	IL
ITALY	2IT
ITALY	I
ITALY	IT
JAPAN	2J
JAPAN	2JP
JAPAN	3J
JAPAN	4J
JAPAN	J
JAPAN	JP
JAPAN	YA,YB
KOREA	KO
KT.KU	UNDEFINED
LATIN AMERICA	L
LATIN AMERICA	LA
MALAYSIA	MA
MEXICO	2MX
MEXICO	3MX
MEXICO	MX
MOROCCO	MO
NETHERLAND	2H
NETHERLAND	HK
NETHERLAND	H/A
NETHERLAND	H/B
NETHERLAND	H/C
NETHERLAND	H/D
NEW ZEALAND	NL
NEW ZEALAND	NZ
NEWCALEDONIA	NC
NIGERIA	NR
NIGERIA	NR-III
NIGERIA	NR-V
NIGERIA	NR5
NORTHERN EUROPE	ND
NORTHERN EUROPE	YG
NORWAY	2N
NORWAY	N
PAKISTAN	PA
PAPUA NEWGUINEA	PN
PARAGUAY	PG
PORTUGAL	2ED
PORTUGAL	2PO
PORTUGAL	PO
SINGAPORE	SI
SOUTH AFRICA	SA
SOUTH AFRICA 3	SA3
SOUTH AFRICA 5	SA5
SPAIN	2SP
SPAIN	SP
SRI LANKA	SL
SRI LANKA	SL/A
SWEDEN	SD
SWITZERLAND	2SW
SWITZERLAND	SW
SWITZERLAND	SW2
SWITZERLAND-2	SW-2
TAIWAN	UNDEFINED
THAILAND	2TH
THAILAND	TH
USA	A
USA	R 1969
USA	R 1970
VENEZUELA	VZ
WASHINGTON POLICE	AW

"Washington Police" (AW)  listed at the bottom . . .  Timmythecop must have some serious pull at Honda to get his own spares code for his rides!  :goofy:

16 minutes ago, Cogswell

"Washington Police" (AW)  listed at the bottom . . .  Timmythecop must have some serious pull at Honda to get his own spares code for his rides!  :goofy:

It is probably becuse those bikes have side car fittings for when it gets a bit cold.  :tongue:

If you need a spare cover shipped to sebspeed for the window mod let me know I will be having a good one to send soon

thank you 😊 

IMG_4186.MOV

Why are you revving the bike when it's cold like that! Pls stahppp

1 hour ago, thtanner

Why are you revving the bike when it's cold like that! Pls stahppp

Sorry I think I at that point I just swapped out the ECU and just wanted a tuning sound recording  before I loaded the fuel map and o2 eliminator.

4 hours ago, 3dcycle

If you need a spare cover shipped to sebspeed for the window mod let me know I will be having a good one to send soon

8 hours ago, Cogswell

"Washington Police" (AW)  listed at the bottom . . .  Timmythecop must have some serious pull at Honda to get his own spares code for his rides!  :goofy:

The alpha value designation on various ECU's available om eBay, are not consistant with the general Honda part numbering codes because it's not serving the same purpose.

I wish I would have seen this thread sooner, to save you some time and money. Like Mohawk said, the German ecu, power commander and black widow header won't really do anything dramatic for performance, as the black widow header isn't tuned (primary length/diameter, merge/collector quality) any better than your typical 98/99 factory headers and the German ecu doesn't have any dramatic difference in fuel/ignition mapping.

You would have been better off hunting down an Erion Racing or Two Brothers Racing header, keeping your US ecu and using Rapid Bike racing for tuning (they can tune both ignition and fuel mapping). Also, KN air filters usually have dramatically less surface area than the oem filter (but yours didn't seem to), so most people go with Pipercross when looking for a performance air filter. The high output stator seems like bad news, oem stator plus the FH020 rr has been the most reliable set up so far. The VFR800 does not need any extra current, that is actually what kills rr's.

Possibly but what's happening in reality is not consistant with your keystroking. I am doing "old school, wide open road, seat of my pants, testing" in various increments, along the way. Ultimately when I totally done, which would be after installing a matched set fuel of fuel injectors, i will get a two part DynoTech test and tune and expecting 118 bhp.

Why on earth would you upgrade the injectors? The injectors weren't even upgraded on the Torocharger kit. There is no way that you are running anywhere near 100% duty cycle. You are going to need to locate an extremely high reading dyno to pull 118 whp out of a more or less slip on and fuel tune vfr800.

Prior to Dyno tuning a V-4 , it's extremely important the injectors are outputting not only "max" volume but also within 1% of each other, otherwise any AFR tuning may just be compensating for the mis-matching of the injectors and you'll never get the max power output of that particular engine. Remember this tune is always about unleashing, for the most part, what's already existing from the factory. The Black Widow headers were selected because they are very high quality fit and finish, minimal pipe joints connections and clamps, eliminate the cat, and are readily available from both compentent and highly communicative shop. Those headers arrived and were installed, with zero issues, within  7 days of placing the order, that's very important to me, I'll give the good folks at Black Widow a full 5 stars across the board, everything went perfect at a very fair price. That's how I prefer to do business, pay the money and get the best product, no bull. As far as I am concerned, right now Black Widow is the "clear choice" and the "best in business" for 5th Gen VFR headers, period.

IMG_4195.MOV

2k1GoneWild, 11/7/2016 at 2:39 PM

Prior to Dyno tuning a V-4 , it's extremely important the injectors are outputting not only "max" volume but also within 1% of each other, otherwise any AFR tuning may just be compensating for the mis-matching of the injectors and you'll never get the max power output of that particular engine. Remember this tune is always about unleashing, for the most part, what's already existing from the factory. The Black Widow headers were selected because they are very high quality fit and finish, minimal pipe joints connections and clamps, eliminate the cat, and are readily available from both compentent and highly communicative shop. Those headers arrived and were installed, with zero issues, within  7 days of placing the order, that's very important to me, I'll give the good folks at Black Widow a full 5 stars across the board, everything went perfect at a very fair price. That's how I prefer to do business, pay the money and get the best product, no bull. As far as I am concerned, right now Black Widow is the "clear choice" and the "best in business" for 5th Gen VFR headers, period.

IMG_4195.MOV

I totally agree with you about the injectors needing to be clean and balanced with flow rate and spray pattern, that is why I had these guys rebuild, ultra sonic clean and inspect the flow rate/spray pattern of my factory injectors. The flow rate variance was less than 1% and spray pattern perfect across the board after cleaning.

https://precisionautoinjectors.com/

But, I am going to disagree with you on needing oversize injectors. That is simply not the case.

As far as your header choice goes, fitment and customer service may be great, I cannot dispute that, but as mohawk stated, this is not a performance header and has nothing to do with unleashing the factory power. The black widow header is at best, comparable to a 1998/1999 factory header and at worst, a compromised 1998/1999 header.

You should read up on the Tyga Header group buy. There is significant information on the topic of headers in that thread.

Also as far as tuning goes, with Rapid Bike, you can tune each cylinder's fuel mapping individually with multiple wide band o2 sensors. Even with fresh injectors and a starter valve sync, you would be surprised how different each cylinder's fuel needs are.

I never ever considered "oversizing" injectors, but I would get then within 1% with max flow possible.

The group buys are not practical in my situation and circumstance, it's just too many steps and time consuming and the purported benefits do not outweigh all the various inconveniences. Black Widow headers will be able to hang right in there with any other header, they do it right and know how to serve global customers. Makes more sense to me, it's a personal preference for adequate performance and timeliness that matters to me, if you know what I mean :)

Honestly I think a Rapidbike Racing unit would provide the most notable changes in regards to performance on this project.

No need for a German ECU and a Power Commander...

That being said, I'm pretty sure 2k1GoneWild is more interested in doing 'their own thing' instead of taking advice, suggestions, etc. They made a path, and they're sticking to it.. for better or worse.

Sorry about the assumption on your injector choice, that was the impression that you gave me.

As far as the header goes, I sent you a link to the group buy, not for you to sign up for the group buy, but for you to read up about the difference between generic catless headers and actual performance headers. The group buy doesn't seem to be moving very fast, but actual performance headers, that were made for the fifth gen a while back, do pop up for sale from time to time. Two Brothers Racing and Erion Racing were the only performance headers ever made for the VFR800. All other headers use the basic factory 1998 / 1999 header layout and offer negligible power gains. 

I was able to find a Two Brothers header and it makes a huge difference in power. I replaced my original catted headers with a set of motads in 2009 and even with a slip on/air filter/power commander/dyno tune (basically the mods that you listed), performance did not change much (101 whp on a properly set up dyno). It wasn't until modifying the velocity stacks, switching to Rapid Bike and locating a set of actual race headers a couple years ago, that the performance of the bike noticeably changed. With the basic bolt-ons that you listed, I pretty much was stuck at running the quarter in 10.99 @ 120. After Rapid Bike, velocity stacks and race header I went to 10.8 at 128. 

I am not trying to knock you or your build down, but just trying to get you to realize, many of us (mohawk, Highsidenz and I) have already been down that path before and it was a waste of time and money.

Here attached is Mohawk's before (generic catless header) and after Two Brother's header dyno. He also has upgraded cams/ velocity stacks/ Rapid Bike, so that is why his base line numbers (112.59) are much higher than other vfr's.

[image: motad vs two brothers.jpeg]

I know, I know but this does not have to be all so difficult tracking down exotic bits and pieces of this and that for whatever, rather just obtain mainstream, high quality "in business" proven products with living service and support, and get on with it, this whole thing should not take more that 2 months and $5k, it will hang right in there with the best of them, without all the fuss and fanfare, bottom line is this : no single item took more than 2-3 weeks or cost more than $500.-, case closed, now go run it and enjoy it :)

58 minutes ago, thtanner

Honestly I think a Rapidbike Racing unit would provide the most notable changes in regards to performance on this project.

No need for a German ECU and a Power Commander...

That being said, I'm pretty sure 2k1GoneWild is more interested in doing 'their own thing' instead of taking advice, suggestions, etc. They made a path, and they're sticking to it.. for better or worse.

The German ECU cost $130 and the Power Commader lll was $300 and both installed in less than an hour with no fuss it's going to get the job done, no more EPA in my ECU and I can load fuel maps in seconds.  I'm sure RapidBike is fantastic, but it's a bit pricey and in the end won't make that much difference for my purpose is just to unleash the factory power that's already there and not go there crazy spending money.RapidBike cost 3 times as much money. I bought the bike for $3k and put $4k back into it. The $1000 I spent on new Corbin seat and clutch window are just to add some comfort and pizazz. The Black Widow SS headers and high level Staintune is $1000 spent to have a first rate exhaust. The Power Commander lll, the ECU from Germany, the Air Box double snorkel and K & N filter with the Gear Indicator and a few other frills is another $1000-, then round it off with a fresh DMr suspension another $1000.-, that's about it $4000, well spent for long term investment quality mods, the whole thing took a month or two and I'm riding with the best of the VFR's :)

11 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild

The German ECU cost $130 and the Power Commader lll was $300 and both installed in less than an hour with no fuss it's going to get the job done, no more EPA in my ECU and I can load fuel maps in seconds.  I'm sure RapidBike is fantastic, but it's a bit pricey and in the end won't make that much difference for my purpose is just to unleash the factory power that's already there and not go there crazy spending money.RapidBike cost 3 times as much money. I bought the bike for $3k and put $4k back into it. The $1000 I spent on new Corbin seat and clutch window are just to add some comfort and pizazz. The Black Widow SS headers and high level Staintune is $1000 spent to have a first rate exhaust. The Power Commander lll, the ECU from Germany, the Air Box double snorkel and K & N filter with the Gear Indicator and a few other frills is another $1000-, then round it off with a fresh DMr suspension another $1000.-, that's about it $4000, well spent for long term investment quality mods, the whole thing took a month or two and I'm riding with the best of the VFR's :)

I'm sure you'll enjoy your setup, no doubt. The seat and staintune are the two best 'smiles per miles' upgrades anyways. That being said, I still feel that if someone is trying to address performance, the Rapidbike Racing module is better money spent than an ECU and PC. I'd have lost the windowless clutch cover to gain it, personally.

1 hour ago, 2k1GoneWild

I know, I know but this does not have to be all so difficult tracking down exotic bits and pieces of this and that for whatever, rather just obtain mainstream, high quality "in business" proven products with living service and support, and get on with it, this whole thing should not take more that 2 months and $5k, it will hang right in there with the best of them, without all the fuss and fanfare, bottom line is this : no single item took more than 2-3 weeks or cost more than $500.-, case closed, now go run it and enjoy it :)

Black widow is not proven and it will not hang with the best of them. It will hang with the factory 1998 and 1999 VFR800 header. It is not a performance header. Any VFR with a performance header will run away from you after 8000 RPMs. You do not need service and support for a Two Brother's or Erion header. All you need to do is find one, and install it.

Furthermore the German ECU being a performance option is a myth and it is still tuned to run with a restrictive factory airbox/exhaust and on 87 [(RON+MON)/2] octane.

If you insist, fine, but maybe not as much you're saying, I'll have solid Dyno numbers at the end, you can tell the Black Widow headers are a "cut above" as soon as you open the box, the Install with no fuss and run great through the entire power band. The idea is to have a free flowing, cat-less, all stainless exhaust, I'm not sure where you're getting your info but I'm telling you Black Widow gets the job done just fine in the "real world".

1 hour ago, thtanner

I'm sure you'll enjoy your setup, no doubt. The seat and staintune are the two best 'smiles per miles' upgrades anyways. That being said, I still feel that if someone is trying to address performance, the Rapidbike Racing module is better money spent than an ECU and PC. I'd have lost the windowless clutch cover to gain it, personally.

Possibly true but to what degree ? Power Commander will get it done with off the shelf maps until it gets custom mapped on the Dyno, in the end, Power Commanders offers more options with connectivity within their network of tuners. I'd say this choice is as much based upon circumstance and siutuation, if RapidBike was in the same price point. But being 3 times as much, I just can't justify it. The clutch window is just some pizazz factor, it's a totally different type of bean :)

39 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild

Possibly true but to what degree ? Power Commander will get it done with off the shelf maps until it gets custom mapped on the Dyno, in the end, Power Commanders offers more options with connectivity within their network of tuners. I'd say this choice is as much based upon circumstance and siutuation, if RapidBike was in the same price point. But being 3 times as much, I just can't justify it. The clutch window is just some pizazz factor, it's a totally different type of bean :)

Whatever you need to justify it to yourself, but the Rapidbike Racing is leagues above a PC and would have been a better investment long term.

Enjoy your ride!

1 hour ago, 2k1GoneWild

If you insist, fine, but maybe not as much you're saying, I'll have solid Dyno numbers at the end, you can tell the Black Widow headers are a "cut above" as soon as you open the box, the Install with no fuss and run great through the entire power band. The idea is to have a free flowing, cat-less, all stainless exhaust, I'm not sure where you're getting your info but I'm telling you Black Widow gets the job done just fine in the "real world".

I am getting my info from the fact that they are exactly the same internal diameter as the 98/99 headers, have less than ideal merges and are not anywhere near equal length. You would get more or less the same results from 1998 and 1999 factory headers.

Catted headers have around 28mm inner diameter primaries, Catless headers have around 32mm inner diameter, while true performance headers have at least 35mm inner diameter. That is just the primaries... The secondaries and collector are also restrictive above 8000 rpms (where you will be above 150 mph). This is all proven by the dyno graph I just posted.

There are countless Two Brothers, Erion Racing and Tyga header threads right now that go into great deal about why headers like Black widow are just stock replacement and not performance oriented.

51 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild

Possibly true but to what degree ? Power Commander will get it done with off the shelf maps until it gets custom mapped on the Dyno, in the end, Power Commanders offers more options with connectivity within their network of tuners. I'd say this choice is as much based upon circumstance and siutuation, if RapidBike was in the same price point. But being 3 times as much, I just can't justify it. The clutch window is just some pizazz factor, it's a totally different type of bean :)

Power commander does not offer more options. It does not even offer ignition tuning. It is still just a simple fuel correction device and will not let you take advantage of higher octane fuels. I do not follow what you mean by connectivity. I also do not follow where you got three times as much. You are paying $300 for a power commander, $150 for a german ecu and another $200 or $300 for a dyno tune. That is about $700, no? Rapid bike is $525 for fuel only tuning and $695 for fuel plus ignition tuning. You would have saved money in the long run.....

3 hours ago, thtanner

Honestly I think a Rapidbike Racing unit would provide the most notable changes in regards to performance on this project.

No need for a German ECU and a Power Commander...

That being said, I'm pretty sure 2k1GoneWild is more interested in doing 'their own thing' instead of taking advice, suggestions, etc. They made a path, and they're sticking to it.. for better or worse.

Power Commander has fuel maps for Euro ECU's, that's why I got the ECU from Germany and it not that pricey, only $130 and you can tell the difference running the bike. 

 What about the "readily, obtainability factor?" I actually need the stuff to show up and install it, the stuff like Two Brothers and even Staintune are no longer producing, I'm actually getting it done here with whats actually available and it's going great ! :)

www.rapidbike.us - readily available

15 minutes ago, CandyRedRC46

Power commander does not offer more options. It does not even offer ignition tuning. It is still just a simple fuel correction device and will not let you take advantage of higher octane fuels. I do not follow what you mean by connectivity. I also do not follow where you got three times as much. You are paying $300 for a power commander, $150 for a german ecu and another $200 or $300 for a dyno tune. That is about $700, no? Rapid bike is $525 for fuel only tuning and $695 for fuel plus ignition tuning. You would have saved money in the long run.....

For me it's "excessive overkill" geared towards the "big spenders" in racing community, to tell you the truth we have spent more time posting comments that it took me to install the PC lll and load a fuel map file. I'm not going to enjoy as much over spending on any one given product. I'm sure RapidBike is fantastic, but not for my particular circumstance and situation. I called Power Commander in Las Vegas and validated just what I wanted, if you ask me Power Commander has both a bigger stake and investment in the global tuning community, that was another factor in my choice. Plus there is a DynoTech tuner within 2 hours away, it's a combination of factors in the end.

2 hours ago, thtanner

I'm sure you'll enjoy your setup, no doubt. The seat and staintune are the two best 'smiles per miles' upgrades anyways. That being said, I still feel that if someone is trying to address performance, the Rapidbike Racing module is better money spent than an ECU and PC. I'd have lost the windowless clutch cover to gain it, personally.

I'm not racing, I just want simple, proven products that are affordable . RapidBike wants to sell three products and it totals $1695-, it's too much cost and complexity for my blood when PC lll gets it all done seconds and minutes, it's good enough without all the fuss.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night! You were advised about a $700 item, but you want to inflate the price up with other stuff to prove your point. I've had enough with politicians bending truth to make them sound smart this year that this is giving me a headache.

For posterity sake I will note, again, the Rapidbike Racing module is superior to a Power Commander + Dynotune. Anyone looking for the best bang for your buck tuning upgrade should look there. 

12 minutes ago, thtanner

Whatever makes you sleep better at night! You were advised about a $700 item, but you want to inflate the price up with other stuff to prove your point. I've had enough with politicians bending truth to make them sound smart this year that this is giving me a headache.

For posterity sake I will note, again, the Rapidbike Racing module is superior to a Power Commander + Dynotune. Anyone looking for the best bang for your buck tuning upgrade should look there. 

Except it does costs quite a bit more and there are three products necessary to perform a full range of tuning, I'm sure it's "better" but I'm just moving fuel mao files, I'm not tuning and when I am going to tune it will be at a DynoTech center and the tech will be custom tuning it once, when I'm ready. I'm not an ongoing tuner, I'm just doing a "one time " deal here. But if RapidBike were the nearly same price and had a local tuner, I would definitely have considered going that route.

52 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild

For me it's "excessive overkill" geared towards the "big spenders" in racing community, to tell you the truth we have spent more time posting comments that it took me to install the PC lll and load a fuel map file. I'm not going to enjoy as much over spending on any one given product. I'm sure RapidBike is fantastic, but not for my particular circumstance and situation. I called Power Commander in Las Vegas and validated just what I wanted, if you ask me Power Commander has both a bigger stake and investment in the global tuning community, that was another factor in my choice. Plus there is a DynoTech tuner within 2 hours away, it's a combination of factors in the end.

I don't understand your logic here... It's not excessive over kill. Its proper fuel/ignition tuning, that takes no longer to install than a PC. Its not over spending, $300+$150+20+$300= $770 is actually over spending when compared to $525 for a Rapid bike Evo or $695 for a Rapid bike Racing. I don't understand what you mean by bigger stake in the global tuning community and investment... Dimsport is huge in Europe and in racing, power commander is not. Rapid bikes are not model specific (only the harness is) so they can be used on multiple bikes (power commander is model specific) so rapid bike is obviously a better investment as it would be easier to sell and transferable to a new bike if you traded bikes. 

17 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild

Except it does costs quite a bit more and there are three products necessary to perform a full range of tuning, I'm sure it's "better" but I'm just moving fuel mao files, I'm not tuning and when I am going to tune it will be at a DynoTech center and the tech will be custom tuning it once, when I'm ready. I'm not an ongoing tuner, I'm just doing a "one time " deal here. But if RapidBike were the nearly same price and had a local tuner, I would definitely have considered going that route.

I still don't get how you can say Rapid bike cost more, when you are spending $770 on PC, ECU, o2 eliminators and dyno versus $525 or $695 for Rapid bike, which is self tuning and needs no other hardware.... You don't need a tuner and you can keep modding your bike and letting the rapid bike adjust for each mod on its own. 

43 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild

I'm not racing, I just want simple, proven products that are affordable . RapidBike wants to sell three products and it totals $1695-, it's too much cost and complexity for my blood when PC lll gets it all done seconds and minutes, it's good enough without all the fuss.

Where are you getting this from? You do not need three products and you do not need to spend $1695. Where is the added complexity? What are the 3 products? Also 160 plus mph is racing....

Just out of interest 2k1, did u do a dyno run b4 u started mods so to compare accurately what the before and after stats are?

And IIRC CRRC46 was offering (some years back now)a dyno run back 2 back with his bike  :beer:

29 minutes ago, boOZZIE

Just out of interest 2k1, did u do a dyno run b4 u started mods so to compare accurately what the before and after stats are?

And IIRC CRRC46 was offering (some years back now)a dyno run back 2 back with his bike  :beer:

 Nope I don't have the time of the cash for that, I'll be into this whole VFR episode about $8k total spent including $1000 in riding and bike gear. I took the cash from an investment fund that was earning about 3-5 %, so I'm done with the spending. I'm looking forward to enjoying my VFR for the next 10 years. I really like gear driven cams because I had a brand new MV Agusta SS America in 1978, then I also had 2 new Ducati's and so I like the way the VFR delivers power. This build is just about reasonably unleashing the factory power and enjoy a fully free reving engine. It's been going great, next the Staintune will get here from Australia and I'll install the o2 eliminator and the adjust the fuel map. It started with around 80 hp, it's up over 100 hp now, when I get the upgraded Stator  and Rectifier back from Germany with the clutch window, I'll be ready to take it to DynoTech for the custom tuning, at that point I'll do a before and after in a single Dyno session. I know it will be up over 110 hp, just how close it will get to 118 hp will have to be seen. It's been really great and fun, for $8k total spent, I'm ready to put as many miles as I want on this bike, and would never plan to sell it :)

7 hours ago, CandyRedRC46

Sorry about the assumption on your injector choice, that was the impression that you gave me.

As far as the header goes, I sent you a link to the group buy, not for you to sign up for the group buy, but for you to read up about the difference between generic catless headers and actual performance headers. The group buy doesn't seem to be moving very fast, but actual performance headers that were made for the fifth gen a while back do pop up for sale for time to time. Two Brothers Racing and Erion Racing were the only performance headers ever made for the VFR800. All other headers use the basic factory 1998 / 1999 header layout and offer negligible power gains. 

I was able to find a Two Brothers header and it makes a huge difference in power. I replaced my original catted headers with a set of motads in 2009 and even with a slip on/air filter/power commander/dyno tune (basically the mods that you listed), performance did not change much. It wasn't until modifying the velocity stacks, switching to Rapid Bike and locating a set of actual race headers a couple years ago, that the performance of the bike noticeably changed. With the basic bolt-ons that you listed, I pretty much was stuck at running the quarter in 10.99 @ 120. After Rapid Bike, velocity stacks and race header I went to 10.8 at 128. 

I am not trying to knock you or your build down, but just trying to get you to realize, many of us (mohawk, Highsidenz and I) have already been down that path before and it was a waste of time and money.

Here attached is Mohawk's before (generic catless header) and after Two Brother's header dyno. He also has upgraded cams/ velocity stacks/ Rapid Bike, so that is why his base line numbers (112.59) are much higher than other vfr's.

[image: motad vs two brothers.jpeg]

Yup that's right about where I plan to be without all the fuss, let's wait and see how close my numbers are when I get done because my little set of tuning tricks is pretty easily done. I can tell you right now it's running real strong and I still have not installed the o2 eliminator and the Staintune along with that fuel map. It will be about another month before the stator and clutch stuff gets sent and comes back from Germany, I'm really enjoying the added responsiveness and full power band. I'm doing a little but each weekend as stuff shows up. This weekend is DMr and possibly the Staintune, it's landed in USA according to the tracker :) 

18 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild

 It started with around 80 hp, it's up over 100 hp now, when I get the upgraded Stator  and Rectifier back from Germany with the clutch window, I'll be ready to take it to DynoTech for the custom tuning, at that point I'll do a before and after in a single Dyno session. I know it will be up over 110 hp, just how close it will get to 118 hp will have to be seen.

Yup that's right about where I plan to be without all the fuss, let's wait and see how close my numbers are when I get done because my little set of tuning tricks is pretty easily done. I can tell you right now it's running real strong and I still have not installed the o2 eliminator and the Staintune along with that fuel map.

Factory stock VFR800's are rated at 108 crank hp. They put out about 95whp, (+/-5 whp depending on if its a high reading or low reading dyno)

The VFR that you are building is a slipon, catless header, air filter and fuel tune VFR800. These have been shown to put down around 100whp, (+/-5 whp depending on dyno.

A VFR that puts out 80 whp has serious problems.

A VFR that puts out 110 WHP either has upgraded cams, a race header or a very high reading dyno.

A VFR that puts out 118 WHP has both Cams and race header or a tuner that is playing with the correction factor too much.

On a properly set up dyno, your VFR will put down about 100whp, maybe less because of your dual snorkel set up.

I detect a slight acrid note in some posts, no need for this guys.....    This is not a US election... :-)

Let's see how far these efforts lead and enjoy the show in the mean time :beer:

German mag Motorad showed this years ago

[image: IM000015.jpg]

Fwiw my 4th gen (carbs of course) rwhp is was 106, max torque 78Nm....

43 minutes ago, CandyRedRC46

Factory stock VFR800's are rated at 108 crank hp. They put out about 95whp, (+/-5 whp depending on if its a high reading or low reading dyno)

The VFR that you are building is a slipon, catless header, air filter and fuel tune VFR800. These have been shown to put down around 100whp, (+/-5 whp depending on dyno.

A VFR that puts out 80 whp has serious problems.

A VFR that puts out 110 WHP either has upgraded cams, a race header or a very high reading dyno.

A VFR that puts out 118 WHP has both Cams and race header or a tuner that is playing with the correction factor too much.

On a properly set up dyno, your VFR will put down about 100whp, maybe less because of your dual snorkel set up.

I love predications with numbers :)

22 minutes ago, Dutchy

I detect a slight acrid note in some posts, no need for this guys.....    This is not a US election... :-)

Let's see how far these efforts lead and enjoy the show in the mean time :beer:

German mag Motorad showed this years ago

[image: IM000015.jpg]

Fwiw my 4th gen (carbs of course) rwhp is was 106, max torque 78Nm....

I agree with Dutch, this is for the purpose of fun, speed and enjoyment, what can be done restively easily with spending $3-4k and a few weekends. It's kinda exciting getting the goods from around the world too and putting together a timely instituted build. It's going great, please don't get carried away with the project numbers, it's so much better than stock and highly streetable. If you want numbers spend $20k and get a new H2, but that's just not what this is all about because not everything can be measured in numbers. The 5th Gen VFR is more than just numbers,...!

H2.................

Coming down this stretch, my LeMans didnot scream this much... 

(I was, inside my helmet...)

I am trying to be as civil as possible, but there is simply an overwhelming amount of misinformation in this post. Again, I am not trying to make anything personal, but 99% of everything in this thread has been covered in multiple threads, dating back 5 or 10 years.

Hey CR, Chill man, the guy is NOT listening & has a pipe dream that the VFR has some hidden "Factory power" that a few basic mods will release like Magic. You & I know better ;) 

I believe I have put more dollars & more time into trial & error research to get mine up to 120rwhp on a well respected race team & major magazine test dyno.  I have posted all those results on this forum for all to see. If he can top 110hp on a respected dyno, not some hicksville "what would you like it to read" one, then I will be impressed, but I would be surprised if it reached 105hp with those mods.

Lets just wait for the final results :) 

2K1, suggest you look up my threads & you will see the whole gambit of dyno charts from the same respected dyno. Your exact mods with a custom PC3 tune, got me 102rwhp, the other 18 I have now took a LOT more effort.

YMMV, Happy new Presidents day !

1 hour ago, Dutchy

H2.................

[video: https://www.youtube.com/embed/cL3MH3Nllic?feature=oembed]

Coming down this stretch, my LeMans didnot scream this much... 

(I was, inside my helmet...)

Staintune high level with Black Widow and Double Snorkel Airbox with Euro G ECU and a PC lll fuel map still with o2 sensors

IMG_4198.MOV

2 hours ago, Dutchy

H2.................

[video: https://www.youtube.com/embed/cL3MH3Nllic?feature=oembed]

Coming down this stretch, my LeMans didnot scream this much... 

(I was, inside my helmet...)

That's absolutely WOW !!!

Here are a few "conservative" drive-by's with the following : Staintune High level, the Black Widow headers (no cat) , Double snorkel airbox with K & N, the Euro ECU from Germany and the PC lll with a Staintune with aftermarket and O2 sensors loaded. It feels like about 105-110 HP, I expect a bit more once the o2 eliminator and higher output stator generator is installed and I tweak some fuel maps . For now it's really running smooth, full and cool plus, sounding great ! :)  PS: later I will do a bit more aggressive 150+ mph drive-by 🏍

IMG_4199.MOV

2 hours ago, CandyRedRC46

I am trying to be as civil as possible, but there is simply an overwhelming amount of misinformation in this post. Again, I am not trying to make anything personal, but 99% of everything in this thread has been covered in multiple threads, dating back 5 or 10 years.

Yup Staintune just showed up took 15 mins to install so here's the deal so far: Euro ECU from Germany, Black Widow headers with O2 sensors connected, my little Double Snorkel no flapper air box with K & N filter, PC lll with a Staintune fuel map with after market filter loaded. It's pulling the front wheel off the ground in first gear now, I'm estimating 105-110 hp so far it's got that nice full robust sound now, runs cooler, winds out up over 8000 rpm quicker all the way to 12,0000 no gaps either !

IMG_4198.MOV

1 hour ago, Mohawk

Hey CR, Chill man, the guy is NOT listening & has a pipe dream that the VFR has some hidden "Factory power" that a few basic mods will release like Magic. You & I know better ;) 

I believe I have put more dollars & more time into trial & error research to get mine up to 120rwhp on a well respected race team & major magazine test dyno.  I have posted all those results on this forum for all to see. If he can top 110hp on a respected dyno, not some hicksville "what would you like it to read" one, then I will be impressed, but I would be surprised if it reached 105hp with those mods.

Lets just wait for the final results :) 

2K1, suggest you look up my threads & you will see the whole gambit of dyno charts from the same respected dyno. Your exact mods with a custom PC3 tune, got me 102rwhp, the other 18 I have now took a LOT more effort.

YMMV, Happy new Presidents day !

I'm sure you've spent much more time and money, this build is just about what can be done fairly quickly with readily available products and services. I'm pretty darn sure I'll get 110 hp of "factory power" before its all over and I'll get it tuned and tested before and after at a nearby DynoJet shop. This thread is just about unleashing and having fun, it's not supposed a contest for numbers, let's work together please ?

  It's your project,  but like a couple others have said, the 5th gen has been well documented what works, and doesn't,  period. for X $$$ No secret tricks here. unless you add the Toro charger  The HPs is a slow to come vs. how much you throw at it. Maybe if you're up to it since you reside in the same state.  We can compare notes if and when we hook up over a ride or two checking in at a good ole burger joint.

5 minutes ago, RVFR

  It's your project,  but like a couple others have said, the 5th gen has been well documented what works, and doesn't,  period. for X $$$ No secret tricks here. unless you add the Toro charger  The HPs is a slow to come vs. how much you throw at it. Maybe if you're up to it since you reside in the same state.  We can compare notes if and when we hook up over a ride or two checking in at a good ole burger joint.

There is a DynoJet shop in Perry Georgia, that's where I'll be taking it for final shop item installs, testing and custom fuel mapping after I receive the stuff from Thurn should be within next 3-4 weeks. 

B6_ dolphin on VFRW has a 8 spoker up for sale if interested [image: emoji482.png]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

34 minutes ago, duccmann

B6_ dolphin on VFRW has a 8 spoker up for sale if interested [image: emoji482.png]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Speaking of which I have (or will have shortly) all the following Parts in very good to excellent condition that were recenty carefully removed  from my 2002 5th Gen up for grab$ or trade for something:

1) OEM header downpipes

2) OEM seat (like new)

3) Vance & Hines SR22 Stainless Exhaust 

4) OEM Engine Clutch Cover

5) OEM Stator Cover

6) OEM Engine ECU "A"

7) OEM Center Stand

8) Read Seat Cowl (not OEM)

23 hours ago, CandyRedRC46

Factory stock VFR800's are rated at 108 crank hp. They put out about 95whp, (+/-5 whp depending on if its a high reading or low reading dyno)

The VFR that you are building is a slipon, catless header, air filter and fuel tune VFR800. These have been shown to put down around 100whp, (+/-5 whp depending on dyno.

A VFR that puts out 80 whp has serious problems.

A VFR that puts out 110 WHP either has upgraded cams, a race header or a very high reading dyno.

A VFR that puts out 118 WHP has both Cams and race header or a tuner that is playing with the correction factor too much.

On a properly set up dyno, your VFR will put down about 100whp, maybe less because of your dual snorkel set up.

I'm right with you mate but I think mine will do getting up over 110 whp and the argument (now and in the end) will be with what there are no factual information upon my VFR's uniqueness as follows 1) Double Snorkel Air Box w/ K & N filter 2) Euro ECU 'G' (Germany) 3) Black Widow Catless Headers  with High Level Staintune Exhaust 3) Custom PC lll DynoTech Tune 4) Upgraded Stator and Rectifier

5) Calibrated injectors (1%)

The combination of these 5 factors , once fully installed, optimized and Dyno tuned with performance numbers will end upon producing over 110 whp (reading) on the DynoTech and then the argument will be the accuracy of the Dyno + - 5 mph.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SMRCru_dMeI

So no point in arguing, I'm not doing cams because I'm more concerned about long term engine life and having a full range of power and just having fun within my meager budget and means, the purpose is just to have a "well-rounded" 5th gen "daily driver" that's been "sorted out" and cost under $8k. 

But I'm sure there will be "never-ending" arguments, objections and comments, so I'm ok with that too ! :) 🏍😃

Things that are not unique:

1.) K&N air filter. It is not a performance filter. It is a reusable filter, designed factory fuel mapping. 

2.) Euro Germany ECU. Everyone in Germany has this ECU. They still use regular low octane fuel and they make no additional power.

3.) Black widow headers. These are not performance headers, they are simply relabeled Sandy's spare headers and no different power wise than all other 1998/1999 factory VFR's, motads headers or delkevic headers. Staintune slip on. This is a very nice and high quality slip on. With that being said, performance wise, a slip-on is a slip-on. It has been done before. 

3 again.) Power commander. This is just a fuel tune. No ignition tuning. Been done a million times.

4.) Upgraded stator and rectifier. A good mod on any VFR for reliability reasons. Zero effect on power. Series rr's can free up 0.5hp, but you gave no mention of series/mosfet/shunt, simply said that it was a high output or something, which would actual create more mechanical drag, with no increase in performance. 

5.) Clean and balancing the injectors. Also a good mod, but again will not free up any extra horsepower, it will just bring you back to factory spec.

The one thing that is unique here is your double snorkel, which isn't going to do much. If anything it will lose power, as an open flap will flow more air than a snorkel.

This is all pretty much a pipe dream, unless you are talking crank hp, then sure going from 108 crank hp to 110 crank hp seems fair, but going from 95 to 110 horsepower at the wheel isn't going to happen. Nothing on your list merits a 15 hp gain at the wheel.

Very astute high-quality critiquing ! 

Here are my comments:

I somewhat agree to a "varying degree" , but you have to factor in everything going into this build has to be broken down into what is and was "readily available", with a little bit of luck. I got lucky with finding these 3 items for reasonable costs all on eBay :  Airbox for $30.- Euro ECU $130.-, Staintune High Level $450.-. 

Here are a few cases :

1) The double snorkel airbox has never been tested on a Dyno and I also have the OEM Airbox, so when I Dyno tune, I will test both Airboxescand vaildate the performance, until then it seems reasonable that the double snorkel might be improving power.

2) The Euro ECU and USA ECU will also both be tested during Dyno tuning to validate performance.

3) The SS Black Widow downpipes are definitely better than OEM, overall, in the long run. I am not building a race bike, it's better than anything currently readily available because of three factors: 1) Fit up is perfect 2) SS finish is perfect 3) least amount of connections. The performance already is "built-in" and the first ride you find the engine more responsive, runs cooler and sounds fantastic, also it matched up perfect with the Staintune.

i appreciate all feedback and will take into account anything and everything, I can that meets this criteria :"reasonable", "possible" and "within my control". 

This is is a fantastic forum, I look forward to donating contributions.

Thank you for keeping in the spirit let's all work towards benefiting the VFR community.

I'm still trying to decide if you truly believe you're going to get a true 110hp, or if you keep posting the same thing over and over for your own entertainment.

Either way, I sure am entertained! Please, do continue...

2 hours ago, SEBSPEED

I'm still trying to decide if you truly believe you're going to get a true 110hp, or if you keep posting the same thing over and over for your own entertainment.

Either way, I sure am entertained! Please, do continue...

I'm doing it a step at a time and noticing increasing power and speeds on my test circuit, front wheel is lifting in first gear between 6000 and 10,000 rpm, and I still have yet to install the o2 eliminator,I have a highly developed "keen sense of awareness" by the time it gets on the DynoJet, I can assure you it will have 110 whp, I am in an ideal situation and location too :)

28 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild

I'm doing it a step at a time and noticing increasing power and speeds on my test circuit, front wheel is lifting in first gear between 6000 and 10,000 rpm, and I still have yet to install the o2 eliminator,I have a highly developed "keen sense of awareness" by the time it gets on the DynoJet, I can assure you it will have 110 whp, I am in an ideal situation and location too :)

Sigh.

o2 eliminators do not add power. The factory o2 sensors are only online during steady/light throttle cruising.

The eliminators are used to keep your ecu from going in and out of open/closed loop fuel injection, to make tuning possible.

Again, nothing to do with power.

Hmm, I sense there's a torque hammer in the tool box...

This reminds me of when I was 23, in 2009 and I first got my vfr. I was convinced that I was going to pull big numbers and doing all sorts of stuff (catless motad header, two brothers slip-on, air box mods, bmc air filter, power commander 3), "the wheel is coming off of the ground" then I got a custom dyno tune and went from 99whp to 101whp.

41 minutes ago, Auspanglish

Thank you (for proving my 

41 minutes ago, Auspanglish

Thank you (for proving my point).

Thanks

That's fine but that was not at full power ,that was jusr testing the smartphone mount and testing the video upload 

Here is 15 min version at 80% power on my routine backroad 🐱

May I inquire as to what you're trying to show with the videos? Other than your current mount allows a lot of vibration?

Here we go, I repeat, I do not repeat myself, I......

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

11 minutes ago, Lint

May I inquire as to what you're trying to show with the videos? Other than your current mount allows a lot of vibration?

That's why I'm at 80% power with the Restrictor in just testing the smartphone mount will get it better tomorrow plus there's a GearX on the dash 

21GoneWild, have you ever considered getting a gf?

33 minutes ago, Nelix

21GoneWild, have you ever considered getting a gf?

Not anymore totally out of the question , too much time and money, had enough paid grief to last me unless I'm back in British Columbia then it's ok, I got spoiled by the Canadian babes

but by the time they get done spending your money you could have had a new 2017 Fireblade 🐱

[image: IMG_3760.JPG]

HERE HE IS..............

Captain Unleashed Power

Or maybe Bart Simpson . . . ??  :wacko:

So you really need to get an A&A Torocharger supercharging kit. That and read our thread on how your VFR can turn you into a chick magnet. You'll get all the women you could ever handle and more, and you'll have 160hp.

I might save up for one and hope. No need for a liter bike if I can get 160+ out of my 800. I suppose a little fabrication would be required for an 8th gen, I'd have to look into that added cost.

Just now, jhenley17

I might save up for one and hope. No need for a liter bike if I can get 160+ out of my 800. I suppose a little fabrication would be required for an 8th gen, I'd have to look into that added cost.

Edit: nevermind, I thought those were for 6th gens.

...alas they are no longer available... only option is getting very lucky and stumbling across a second hand one (or a vfr with one already installed).

Now THAT IS THE UNICORN SHIZ!! (...and not some piddly +5hp limp-dipsticked non-event).

Yeah, that was the "hope" part of my post. Probably an even smaller chance of finding that 6th gen supercharger.

3 hours ago, Auspanglish

So you really need to get an A&A Torocharger supercharging kit. That and read our thread on how your VFR can turn you into a chick magnet. You'll get all the women you could ever handle and more, and you'll have 160hp.
 

[video: https://www.youtube.com/embed/HDCgwyY4yOY?feature=oembed]

[image: 14c2aa18436c3cbc98d31fe7de8cc82c.jpg]
[image: e3965e18cbdfd018429934703376bfaf.jpg]
 

I'd would definitely go for both the supercharger and the babes, , I just left a message for Dan at A&A Performance and requested if they could put together a supercharger kit for my VFR, but from the way the website and postings appear there must be some other better big reason why that kit is no longer available and the business is defunct, sounds like a legal issue ?( I bet somebody got killed and he got sued and was ordered by a judge  to "cease" ?) so plan B is go to TTS Permance in UK here is a supercharger kit for a Honda 800 that might be re-fittable to a VFR with a few custom parts:

[image: IMG_4263.JPG]

I wonder what exactly you are on in order to have such fantastical over-exaggerated blown-out-of-proportion imaginations, or is it congenital?

Killed?

A more tempered and rational possibility is it just wasn't a profitable business venture. Overheads were high, margin was slim, price was prohibitive.

50 minutes ago, Auspanglish

I wonder what exactly you are on in order to have such fantastical over-exaggerated blown-out-of-proportion imaginations, or is it congenital?

Killed?

A more tempered and rational possibility is it just wasn't a profitable business venture. Overheads were high, margin was slim, price was prohibitive.

The reason is Dan is located in California and all the do out there is sue each other for anything and everything, if somebody "lost control" and "got killed, lamed or injured" on a kitted bike, he could have been sued for liability that the kit was the "cause" and a lawyer would say he say "culpable" , then as part of the judgement Dan agreed to "cease and desist" in this endeavor to provide " out of control" power kits  So Dan will pushback on any requests and not get involved in any way shape or form because he's paranoid and thinks this is a sting operation seeing if he has actually ceased and desisted in this endeavor and "culpable behaviors to profit while placing customers at risk of losing control resulting in serious bodily injury and/ or death (with the argument, this time, being involuntary manslaughter or voluntary manslaughter) so I would not hold your breath for any kits from Dan 🐱

Dan's business was based PA as I recall, not CA.

Also everything else in your imagination never happened.

Other tthan tthhat you are spot on.

Well the truth could not be further removed... In reality Dan made millions in profits, retired early and converted to Islam and lives in Dubai just so he can legally have multiple wives and enjoy carnal pleasures with his harem without receiving any flack. On the side he sells intel to the CIA and doubles a stuntman for Matt Damon in his spare time just for kicks.

39 minutes ago, CornerCarver

Dan's business was based PA as I recall, not CA.

Also everything else in your imagination never happened.

Other tthan tthhat you are spot on.

So Dan met a babe, sold the business, moved to LA and now plays in a band ?

Rumor has it that it's the Lt. Dan Band, Gary Sinise just uses it for PR purposes.

Dan is the man. However even in conjunction with Chuck Norris and Gandalf, they could still not unleash the factory power.

There can be only one.....

4 hours ago, CornerCarver

Dan's business was based PA as I recall, not CA.

Also everything else in your imagination never happened.

Other tthan tthhat you are spot on.

Correct on all counts. 

10 hours ago, Auspanglish

So you really need to get an A&A Torocharger supercharging kit. That and read our thread on how your VFR can turn you into a chick magnet. You'll get all the women you could ever handle and more, and you'll have 160hp.
 

[video: https://www.youtube.com/embed/HDCgwyY4yOY?feature=oembed]

[image: 14c2aa18436c3cbc98d31fe7de8cc82c.jpg]
[image: e3965e18cbdfd018429934703376bfaf.jpg]
 

DO NOT tell my wife...

Ciao,

9 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild

The reason is Dan is located in California and all the do out there is sue each other for anything and everything, if somebody "lost control" and "got killed, lamed or injured" on a kitted bike, he could have been sued for liability that the kit was the "cause" and a lawyer would say he say "culpable" , then as part of the judgement Dan agreed to "cease and desist" in this endeavor to provide " out of control" power kits  So Dan will pushback on any requests and not get involved in any way shape or form because he's paranoid and thinks this is a sting operation seeing if he has actually ceased and desisted in this endeavor and "culpable behaviors to profit while placing customers at risk of losing control resulting in serious bodily injury and/ or death (with the argument, this time, being involuntary manslaughter or voluntary manslaughter) so I would not hold your breath for any kits from Dan 🐱

Post reported.

Baseless slander of a respected member of this forum.

This thread ran it course, done.