I'm sure a topic like this exists, but it's good to have an updated discussion every now and then.
I've started looking around for my next set as i'm pretty disappointed with my Pilot Road 4's.
Granted; Most of my daily riding is to and from work, which is about 5 miles each way and not really far/long enough to warm the tyres. It's statistically rare for me to do long distances over 30 mins or 50 miles. I've also lost traction a fair few times. Nothing serious, but enough to make me re-consider my tyre and riding choices!
So far, the advice has been Bridgestone T30 Evo tyres. I'm told they warm up faster compared to PR4's - Personally; I'm happy to trade tyre life for a faster heating tyre.
I loved my PR4's on my MT09 - sticky enough for everything, including a trackday when the tyres already had 20,000ks on them. i changed to M7rr's when they were too squared off.
I'm fortunate enough to work in the motorbike industry and get to ride a LOT of bikes. I know those pressures feel wrong and ruin the handling, at least for me. Bike turns in too sharply, feels sluggish.
Tyre pressure is too high, drop It to maybe 32F/34R and see how it feels.I'm not that much smaller than you at about 220lbs.
I have spoken at length with Michelin regarding pressures. They are adamant that you run 36/42. I asked them about going to the track, what pressures should I run and the only answer they would give me is 36/42. If you want, feel free to call Norman Frye at Michelin 864-458-5931. He'll explain all the reasons why, etc.
I ran PR4 tires at Chuckwalla about a year ago. They work pretty well, but they did slide the rear out on certain turns and I did almost highside on one. I also had this happen on the street as well. I am now running Bridgestone T30 EVO and they have worked very well. I've only had the rear slide a little in very hard straight braking and that's on cold streets. Never in a turn, regardless of how hard I was on them. I've had zero issues with grip regardless of how hard I push them. Hard braking and the front tracks true. Even hard braking in the rain, coming back from the International Motorcycle Show in Long Beach a couple of weeks ago, with almost 6k miles on them and the tread low on the rear..
I used to be a total PR3/4 fan boy and I never thought I would run anything different, but when I needed tires last April, the T30 EVO was on sale and I'm hooked. Turn in is effortless and the grip is excellent. I guess that's why Ron Haslam runs them on his track bikes at his school in the UK. I weigh more than both of those listed above and I am not kind to my tires and I got a little over 6100 miles out of my rear and It was about .5mm over the wear bars. My rear was 2-3mm tread left, the front has 4+ mm tread left. As the PR4 tires wear faster than the PR3 and they lose grip as they age, I'll not be going back. True, I got about 1000 miles more out of my PR4, the difference in profile, grip in all conditions along with the lower price makes this a no brainer for me.
FWIW, I had a 2005 that I had raised the forks in the triples about 12 mm and I shimmed the shock 4mm (total effect of about 12mm with the rear suspension geometry) as well. I now have a 5th gen and the combo of the bike and the tires made it more nimble than the 6th gen with all of the suspension changes. I have since shimmed my shock roughly 4mm on this bike too. Very nimble bike now.
I really think that the T30 EVO is a great tire. Yes, there may be better tires out there, such as a sport tire, but even with as hard as I ride, the 'Stones have never let me down. I get sport tire wear and touring tire miles.
I'm a fan of the bridgestones. Wasn't going for them but was talked into them by the tyre fitter . My first ride was in the rain and I must say was impressed, then after a few hundred km I went for a decent run through the twisties . That's when I found the problem with my bikes handling , the foot pegs are obviously to low scraping on lots of corners . Pressures for the record 38F 42R always have run like that . Will get them again
I have to accept that the tyre manufacturer knows best when it comes to the recommended pressures for their own product. I also have to accept that everyone in the bike garage i work at knows best/the same when it comes to tyre pressures.
I would really like to not make this a discussion about tyre pressures.
I have spoken at length with Michelin regarding pressures. They are adamant that you run 36/42. I asked them about going to the track, what pressures should I run and the only answer they would give me is 36/42. If you want, feel free to call Norman Frye at Michelin 864-458-5931. He'll explain all the reasons why, etc.
I ran PR4 tires at Chuckwalla about a year ago. They work pretty well, but they did slide the rear out on certain turns and I did almost highside on one. I also had this happen on the street as well. I am now running Bridgestone T30 EVO and they have worked very well. I've only had the rear slide a little in very hard straight braking and that's on cold streets. Never in a turn, regardless of how hard I was on them. I've had zero issues with grip regardless of how hard I push them. Hard braking and the front tracks true. Even hard braking in the rain, coming back from the International Motorcycle Show in Long Beach a couple of weeks ago, with almost 6k miles on them and the tread low on the rear..
I used to be a total PR3/4 fan boy and I never thought I would run anything different, but when I needed tires last April, the T30 EVO was on sale and I'm hooked. Turn in is effortless and the grip is excellent. I guess that's why Ron Haslam runs them on his track bikes at his school in the UK. I weigh more than both of those listed above and I am not kind to my tires and I got a little over 6100 miles out of my rear and It was about .5mm over the wear bars. My rear was 2-3mm tread left, the front has 4+ mm tread left. As the PR4 tires wear faster than the PR3 and they lose grip as they age, I'll not be going back. True, I got about 1000 miles more out of my PR4, the difference in profile, grip in all conditions along with the lower price makes this a no brainer for me.
FWIW, I had a 2005 that I had raised the forks in the triples about 12 mm and I shimmed the shock 4mm (total effect of about 12mm with the rear suspension geometry) as well. I now have a 5th gen and the combo of the bike and the tires made it more nimble than the 6th gen with all of the suspension changes. I have since shimmed my shock roughly 4mm on this bike too. Very nimble bike now.
I really think that the T30 EVO is a great tire. Yes, there may be better tires out there, such as a sport tire, but even with as hard as I ride, the 'Stones have never let me down. I get sport tire wear and touring tire miles.
I don't want to make it about tire pressures either but you state that you lost traction on a few occasions with a very good tire mounted. The recommended pressures bandied about are for maximum load. IIRC the max load for a PR4 is approximately 800lbs. That means the max pressure would be correct if your bike, your kit and you weigh in at 1,600 lbs.
As mentioned above you could experiment with your tire pressures a bit and find more traction at the expense of tire longevity.
Before you blast me, ask yourself a simple question....
Do you think that a CBR300F with a 115 lb pilot should be running the same tire pressure as as a VFR800 with a 300 lb pilot even if both are running the same Michelin tire?
I understand that you don't want to make this about pressures, but tyre grip is linked to tyre pressure. Lower pressure generates more heat. More heat means more grip.
higher pressure means less heat, so less grip, like when tyres that are very sticky aren't providing the grip that they are capable of.
I am trying to help here, because if you keep running high presssures, especially heading in to winter for you northern hemisphere guys, no tyre will grip, no matter how sticky, will get hot enough to be sticky.
On my last couple of supermotos I had to run around 25psi to generate any heat in the tyres. Don't be afraid to experiment.
Have run STD pressures in my tyres for over 30 years and never had a problem.
if your riding constantly you will generate heat. If your stop start you won't.
Not all tyre grip grip is linked to tyre pressure. On a race track if you start out with STD pressures the generated heat will increase the pressure. That's why you start with lower pressures. Ever felt a rim after a fast track session? Increased pressure means less of a contact patch due to the increased pressure.
It's about compounds. Sports tyres have softer compounds that take longer to heat up than the harder compounds of sport touring tyres.
Take a really soft sports tyre and go for it on the road from the off it will feel like your on ice till it gets enough heat in it, where as a st tyre will grip from the start.
tyre technology has improved immensely over 30 years, which means that as compounds have changed, the required tyre pressures have changed.
How can one tyre pressure work well on different bikes, with different weights, different amounts of horsepower, different riding styles, different rider weights?
For example, I used pilot power pures on my super motard. From memory, 24 psi front, and 26 psi rear. If I ran higher pressures, they wouldn't heat up. Lower pressures, the handling felt sluggish.
I liked the tires on my motard so much I put a set on my vfr. 24/26 were obviously rubbish on my vfr ( felt like riding on flat tyres) so ended up with around 34/36 or so.
Same tyres, same rider, different bikes, very different tyre pressures.
And they were awesome on the motard for about 10,000ks, but on the vfr they were only awesome for about 4000ks then the front started feeling pretty sketchy.
They would have sold more if they had marketed them as motard tyres instead of supersport tyres.
what have you got to lose by dropping pressures a bit and seeing how it goes?
Too many variables between different riders, riding style, road surfaces, air temperature, traffic pattern.. and many more that affect the performance of tires..
Regardless of what bike/tires, I treat the first 5 miles of every ride like I am riding on brand new tires.
i'm running Bridgestone T30 EVO on my VFR -and my other bike too- and very happy with it, very stable and sticky, good in the rain, and more importantly to me its very predictable.
i have around 7,500km on the T30 EVO set on my VFR (including a 4,000km trip to NY) and tire is still pretty round with barely any signs of squaring off, i'm suspecting it should last more than 10,000km which i'm happy with for my type of riding and its price.
First off, I'm not a knee dragger but I do tend to be aggressive now and then. I've been running PR2's for at least four years. I buy them because of the reasonable price (~$250 for a set). I usually get nearly 10,000 mi out of a set. I weigh ~160 lbs. fully suited in my leather Transit Suit. I try to maintain the recommended 36 / 42 pressures. My annual mileage is somewhere between 12,000 - 15,000 miles. I ride in all weather. On the few occasions when forgotten to check my tire pressure before riding and later found them five to ten pounds under the usual, I've experienced mushy response to steering inputs on the street and highway. My mileage is divided 40/60 % in-town riding and long-distance traveling. In town I do exercise the tires on freeway exits and sharp curves and get great feel. I've ridden in some big downpours with occasional deep puddles and found grip never lacking. On the road I try to keep to the two-lanes and the twisties. And I seek out mountain roads particularly.
And the last couple of years I've taken advanced rider courses at the local track and have not had traction issues.
PP front PR2 rear 35/40 works for me. Cheap, and predictable. I get around 4K out of the set depending on if I'm just commuting or touring. Less when touring as they get a bit squared off from slab time. My commute is mostly twisties. If it wasn't I'd just drive.
I switched from Q2's to Angel GT's. Have been running these for the last couple of years and absolutely love them. I don't ride track, but enjoy spirited rides on the road. (Enough to be wearing out my spacers on my pegs). I've only had these slip twice - both times in road works - my fault.
They handle great in the wet. I'm a heavy bloke (110kgs) and had luggage on the bike as well, and I can ride as hard as I want.
I don't know if the PR4's are any better or how they compare. I'm a little bit like "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and since I'm scraping pegs I can't see myself asking anymore of my bike than it's already giving.
Just wondering if there's a reason Angel GT's are hardly mentioned. Are they old tech now. Do the PR4's beat them? Or is it due to a different style of riding?
Never tried the Angels, but the Q3s that came on a recent purchase had good stick I just didn't like the rounded profile, and the wear. Too slow handling, wore out quick, and less warning before they start to slide. Some call the Powers "greasy" I call them forgiving. Never a problem with them in the rain.
My VFR has a set of Dunlop Sportmax tyre's and I freaking hate them. My FZ1 has Michelin Pilot Road 4's and I love them, as soon as the Dunlop's need changing I'll be putting a set of the Pilot Road 4's on there. Very sticky and great for racking up the miles with minimal wear.
FWIW, I have run Pirelli Angel GT's, Pilot Road 2's, and PR 3's on my '98 VFR, and PR 4's on my (current) 2000 VFR. On these tires I commuted 70 miles daily and took the bike out once or twice a month for more spirited rides on rural roads. In terms of wear:
Angel GT 12,200 miles. Good grip in dry and wet pavement. I liked them, but went with the PR2 for longer tire life.
PR 2. 21,400 miles. Loved these tires. Front and rear wore pretty evenly and I replaced them as a set.
PR 3. 22,900 miles. The PR2's were better for me. The PR3 front tire wore on the edges more than in the middle. The dual compound rubber was not as well matched for my style of riding as the PR2. As the tire wore into a V shaped profile, handling became compromised. I replaced both as a set, even though the rear still had tread left.
PR4. 12,500 miles and the rear tire is nearly worn out. The front is worn about 50%, and is showing wear on the edges. Handling is not compromised, yet.
I retired last year, and now I'm doing lots more recreational riding and fewer freeway miles. I'll probably replace the PR4's with something else, maybe the Bridgestone T30 EVO, or go back to Angel GT's. Jeff J.
My pleasure. I did put a set of Dunlop Sportmax tires on my '98 shortly before I sold it, but with under 500 miles experience, I thought it best not to include those in my feedback. I did like them a lot, though, the grip was phenomenal.
I couldn't possibly get anywhere near the mileage out of tires as jeffyjeff. I don't think I've ever gotten close to 10K out of any tire on any bike ever.
I couldn't possibly get anywhere near the mileage out of tires as jeffyjeff. I don't think I've ever gotten close to 10K out of any tire on any bike ever.
I was told, while at a Honda shop in Utah, that western tarmac was more aggressive out west to better handle black ice. That time I didn't realize how fast my tires were wearing on a trip back to MN from Yosemite.
There are a lot of chip sealed roads out here especially in the mountains, and deserts. Could have to do with generally higher temps too, but 1/4 the mileage still seems excessive. I do ride aggressively, but there are plenty of people faster than me.
I'm running T30s on my bike now and have had them for almost three years. These aren't the Evo version, but I'm not that impressed with them. I find the turn in to be slow and I just don't get a feeling of confidence. They are perfectly fine and are wearing well, but they don't seem to excel at anything.
Previously on my 6th gen I was running the ContiRoadAttack 2 and they were fantastic. I was going to get these again but the T30s were half the price, so I went for them.
Will switch back to Contis when I need new tires again.
Found that once they were down to about 50% wear the grip dropped off very quickly.
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Wow - that's not entirely comforting news. How badly did the grip drop off? (Or what sort of rider are you - a track rider, or was this noticable on just 'spirited' riding on public roads?
Per Kimball I tried the S21's and love them, better then the Q3's and $215to the door from JW.
Fairly sure Kimball buys stock in whatever tire he recommends. That being said, the S21s are incredible. I didn't feel like they lasted until the wear bars like the Q3s did, although this might have been limited by suspension wearing out on the CB. I will know more shortly since they are on the VFR now. The S21 saves me at least $70 over the Q3 with their rebates, which makes them a no brainer even if I switch them out early. I just purchased 2 sets for the VFR with the rebate going on now.
I'm curious about the new Roadsmart 3s. Per this review, the tire maintains its performance “all the way to the wear indicators.”
I can't emphasize how much neutral feel and performance means with a tire. If they grip well, wear well, and reduce tire changes, I might have a winner.
I have Angel GTs on now, going to try the T30s next. The rear is ok, but the front feel is terrible with about 30% left, but i've possibly been hard on it recently. my suspension is stock, fresh forks (seals, bushings, oil) except with a 929 shock. always stock pressures.
End of thread · 50 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 26 Aug 2017