Shifting Annoyances

Hi vfrd,

I recently got rid of my old superhawk and bought a new left over 2014 vfr800 (couldn't resist those enticing clearance sales). It's a great bike but there's been a little trouble with the shifting that's bugging me enough to join this site and make a post. Bike was performing pretty much flawlessly through the break-in, but yesterday when I decided it was time to really give it the beans I hit a false neutral going from 2nd to 3rd. I attempted the shift at ~10k rpm and since I assumed I was in gear I went right back to WOT... oops. At that point I was a little confused because in my 18 years of riding I've never hit a false neutral. I didn't want to jam it back in gear for the transmissions sake so I coasted for a second, then realized I should probably pull the clutch in, and then proceeded to coast to a side street and stuck it back in 2nd at about 15 mpg with no problem. So, now the shifting between 2nd and 3rd feels kind of crappy. I'm not sure if it was always like this and i just didn't notice because I was never shifting at high rpms, or if I hurt something. Shifting before 5-6k rpm is still pretty smooth I guess. Nevertheless, 2nd to 3rd is definitely the roughest shift, even more so than 1st to 2nd. 3rd to 4th is better than 2nd to 3rd and it shifts into the higher gears buttery smooth. Similar to how my superhawk shifted. I'm a bit worrisome because I've heard how great the vfr transmission is so I feel like this might not be typical. 

If you're wondering, I did change the break in oil

1st at 300 miles with Honda GN4 10w-40

2nd at 700 miles with Motul 7100 10w-40

Any thoughts? Did I ruin my brand new bike? 

I think I have the same issue I only have around 3k miles on it. But I have had false neutrals and last night I noticed it was giving me problems between 2nd n 3rd gear. I'm no mechanic so I have no solution


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Not an answer, but I'm wondering why the oil change at 300 miles??

Would put it down to operator error and not being used to bike yet.  Been riding 30 plus years had can't remember how many gears I've missed.  

Why on earth are are you still in secondgear at 10k revs? 

Amoreira88 - So I'm not the only one... Maybe it's good ol vfr character then??

Rectaltronics - I didn't want to have all those little tiny flakes of metal circulating in my engine longer than it had to be. Might not have been necessary but it made me feel good inside. 

18 minutes ago, fink

Would put it down to operator error and not being used to bike yet.  Been riding 30 plus years had can't remember how many gears I've missed.  

Why on earth are are you still in secondgear at 10k revs? 

Why wouldn't I be? That's right around where peak power is. 1st gear, yeah I'd probably shift sooner but winding out 2nd full throttle has always been a joy on every other bike I've owned.

14 minutes ago, prozak

I didn't want to have all those little tiny flakes of metal circulating in my engine longer than it had to be. Might not have been necessary but it made me feel good inside. 

OK.  More like particles than fragments, which ought to sound less scary.

I'm just concerned because it strikes me that you may have shortened the break-in cycle.

Rectaltronics - i still constantly varied the load and engine speed without excessive revs/throttle till after the second oil change (700 miles)

Nothing wrong with shifting from second at 10k, in fact you are just short of peak power. 

Some oils make shifting better then others. 

It should free up a bit more with mileage. 

Just make sure you are being firm with your gear changes at high revs. 

Motul synthetic oils are known to make gear changing smoother. 

I rode mine like I stole it from day one, first change at 600 miles, second change at 4k miles (every 4k from then on). Now at 19k miles and runs/shifts perfectly. Nothing wrong with hitting 10k in any gear as much as you want.  

33 minutes ago, DriverDave

I rode mine like I stole it from day one, first change at 600 miles, second change at 4k miles (every 4k from then on). Now at 19k miles and runs/shifts perfectly. Nothing wrong with hitting 10k in any gear as much as you want.  

It's post like these that make me think somethings not right. I had ear plugs in when this incident happened so I wasn't able to hear any gears banging around when they were in the false neutral, if they did at all. I know what false neutrals are but I'm not sure about the damage that can result from them. So DriverDave, you can bang it from 2nd to 3rd at high rpms without a big smack or crunchy feelings? And your 2-3 shift doesn't feel any different than the other gears? I bought a new bike so I wouldn't have to worry about stuff being messed up. But now I'm worrying lol...

You have a new bike which has a warranty.  I personally would go back to the dealer and complain that you are getting false neutrals when changing from 2nd to 3rd gear.  They'll no doubt ride the bike and tell you there is nothing wrong with it.  Fine!  But when the warranty run outs and the bike is possibly doing this consistently, you will have a record documented that you complained.  It would be tough then for them to state that it was caused by the rider, and not a fault in the transmission itself.

As to some people in this thread seeming to think that this type of transmission problem is somewhat normal when new, think again.  I've only plenty of used bikes over the years, including the last 5 being brand new.  I've very rarely had a false neutral, and when I have it's because I was being sloppy with changing gears at somewhat slow speeds.  I've always found that the higher the rpm the slicker the gearchange.

10k shifts on a just broken in vfr and you hit a false neutral? That's not surprising. I own several bikes and they all take some getting used to shifting wise. If i hit a false neutral on odd occasions when shifting at a new rpm, i just own it and adjust my technique. Pretty soon I have it mastered. 

Also if you like blasting through the gears in the top of the powerband i highly recommend a quality quick shifter. I have them on two bikes and they are perfect for motogp like powershifting.

9 hours ago, prozak

Why wouldn't I be? That's right around where peak power is. 1st gear, yeah I'd probably shift sooner but winding out 2nd full throttle has always been a joy on every other bike I've owned.

I agree - in fact your problem may be you're shifting too soon at 10,000  :tongue:   If you've seen any of my motovlog vids you'll notice I sometimes wait til 12,000 rpm or even the rev-limiter before I shift from 1-2 and 2-3.  Sometimes I'll do the same for the 3-4 shift but redline in 3rd is over 100 mph so this is something I don't do quite as often - LOL. The bike seems to love getting flogged and I love to flog her.

You don't do any damage being between gears.

A gear needs to shift between a gap to engage the next, a false neutral is when you don't shift with enough force to travel through to the next one.

As I said earlier, just be firm with your gear changes, specially at high revs.

I'm just over 6000KMs (so like 3500-4000 miles) and I do miss gears sometimes. I chalk it up to two things, my skill (lacking) and needed to be a little firmer with the upward gear changes. I'm not getting many false neutrals (I've gotten a couple from 5 to 6 and I've had one feel like it "slipped" out of gear). No weird noises or grinding. I have to say, my only "flaw" with the VFR is I don't love the upwards shifting action. I find it a little long and needs too much force. I've only owned three bikes and don't have much to compare to, so take that with a grain of salt. I am running Royal Purple Max Cycle synthetic since third oil chance (Honda OEM, Motul then Royal Purple).

I am considering the quick shift due to all of this...

After riding a lot more today and shifting under a bunch of different conditions I think I'm figuring out how this bike likes to shift. I made sure to have solid, full, deliberate upshifts during all out acceleration runs and had no problems getting into third gear. Also, under slower acceleration and shifting around 5-6k it would often go into third very smoothly. But if there was any delay from when I let off the throttle/pulled in the clutch and shifted, there would be a loud smack and some rough feedback from the shift lever. Similarly, if I accelerated slowly into the higher rpms and shifted it wouldn't like that either. Something to due with the shifting of the load from the engine on the trans... It also doesn't seem to like to shift from 2nd to 3rd around the range from ~6-7k, or maybe I have trouble modulating the throttle/clutch/gear lever at this range. When I got my false neutral I think I was just rushing the shift through the most temperamental gear change. Really freaked me out though doing that for the first time on my only brand new street bike that I bought but hopefully it's all good. Like Ohlias, the upshifting is the only "flaw" I see (well and it's a big heavy) and I can live with that. If anyone else has some troubles like this maybe what I think I'm realizing about my bike may help you. Really I think most of this can apply to most bikes but for some reason this one gave me more trouble than others.

Some other things that may have helped.

-took nearly all the slack out of the throttle cable, should have done this way earlier

-rotated the gear lever down one tooth 

I appreciate everyone's reply.

It's funny, I rode an 84 magna for 3 years and that needed confident up shifts where you really bang it home.

After that the vfr feels like it's got a hair trigger. Weird that.

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I'm 6'2" so rotating shift lever down helped me get consistent shifts.  The VFR tranny likes synthetic oil.  I'm running Rotella T6 5w40 right now and have run Mobil 15w50 in the past.  I went to the Rotella because I ride year round and like the lighter oil in winter...and it's cheaper here.  It shifts smooth with either of them for several thousand miles and I'm sure other synthetics will do it justice as well.  VFR's like clutchless shifts too.  Pull up a little on the shifter and blip throttle off and back on and you're up a gear lickity split. 

12 hours ago, prozak

-took nearly all the slack out of the throttle cable, should have done this way earlier

May I ask how you did this? I am unfamiliar and would like to try... (still waiting for my service manual to arrive...)

TIA

4 hours ago, Ohlias

May I ask how you did this? I am unfamiliar and would like to try... (still waiting for my service manual to arrive...)

TIA

I don't know if the 8th gen has the same throttle linkage.  If it is similar, this will tell you what to do.

[image: Throttle.png]

Nice post tbzep. I just used the adjustment mechanism closest to the throttle (2nd pic).

18 hours ago, tbzep

 The VFR tranny likes synthetic oil. 

Strange, I've kind of found the opposite. I'm on a 5th gen, so it might not be applicable to your bike, but I switched back to Spectro Golden last week and it made my gearbox so much nicer.  Was using Honda at first, but then I put in a new clutch and switched to Mobile1  Racing T4 up until the last change. The feel is a hell of a lot better and the false neutral I was getting is no more.

Of course, I haven't tried rotella. And Mobil1 is such good oil I have no worries that the bike is getting harmed in any way by running it, so I could never argue against it if someone likes it. But going back to the semi-synthetic really made a good difference for me.

7 hours ago, MooseMoose

Strange, I've kind of found the opposite. I'm on a 5th gen, so it might not be applicable to your bike, but I switched back to Spectro Golden last week and it made my gearbox so much nicer.  Was using Honda at first, but then I put in a new clutch and switched to Mobile1  Racing T4 up until the last change. The feel is a hell of a lot better and the false neutral I was getting is no more.

Of course, I haven't tried rotella. And Mobil1 is such good oil I have no worries that the bike is getting harmed in any way by running it, so I could never argue against it if someone likes it. But going back to the semi-synthetic really made a good difference for me.

You could put Walmart brand 10w40 in and it will feel better than old oil of any kind for a little while. ;)  I've just found that the synthetic oil keeps it from being clunky longer, but no matter what is used, it will eventually get that way.  The 15w50 would go for a good 3000 miles before shifts got a little clunky.  Time will tell how long the Rotella keeps it shifting nice and slick.

No, it's not the new oil. I'm neither new to motorcycles, nor VFRs. I know how new oil feels compared to old. This was a deliberate test.

The T4 I pulled out had only about 500 miles on it. I was getting false neutrals the whole time. The batch before that had 1500 miles, but I  did a clutch change there, so I figured it wasn't a fair comparison. I let the clutch wear in, then I changed the oil with the last of my mobile1 and gave it 4 or 5 tanks to get the feel. Then I tried the Spectro Golden, and the gearbox is much different. Much, much smoother. Not "fresh oil" smoother, but genuinely better than 4 weeks ago when I put the Mobile1 in. No false neutral going 1-2 hard on the throttle, either.

I did this whole bit with my 3rd gen, too. Tried a bunch of oils, and I put I don't know how many miles on the bike. The Odometer says 80,000 but I'd stripped a odo drive nut or two over the years so 10-15K more than that. The semi-synthetics always worked better. HP4 was OK, Spectro Golden was always my favorite, and I'd been through castrol, mobil1, rotella, etc...   always clunkier shifting with the full synthetics. Nothing wrong with them, but I probably did at least a couple of dozen oil changes on the old bike. I know the difference. And on the occasion I tried something new I always dumped the full synthetics 3000 miles after I put them in and went back to my blend.

Oil's a funny thing. And people's expectations are, too. And so many factors go into the feel, from where they ride, the weather, how they ride, and even the indivdual bike -- motorcycles are NOT consistent from one to the next, especially for those of us who haven't joined your 8th gen ranks. Luckily, all major oil is remarkably good these days, so you can't go wrong. But there's a reason oil discussions never come to a consensus. You literally have the polar opposite experience to mine, based on your personal criteria.

Imma let this batch set for 3000 miles and see if it gets clunky. The bike runs a bit hotter than my last one, so it might make a difference, but it'd have to fall off pretty fast to make me put the Mobile1 T4 in again.

Just so everyone's on the same page, hitting neutral in between first and second gear is not a false neutral. That's true neutral. A false neutral occurs in between any other gears.