I noticed the voltage on my battery has been a bit low on my 6th gen recently. Often sitting about 11.8V when I get off the bike. My voltmeter is under the seat so I cant check it during a ride, the only thing I can see is the battery saver led on my heated grips flashing sometimes and not others.
So I ordered a new battery from Tayna and somehow ordered the wrong one. It's 20mm too tall. Ive no idea how I've done it but I'm going to sort out a replacement that fits today for delivery tomorrow. I had to use my bike for work today so I put the old battery back on the bike, put the charger on over night and it took it 14.8v on charge which dropped to 12.8v when the charger was taken off. It then stayed at 12.8v for about 5mins before I had to leave. Which got me thinking the battery might actually be ok and it might be the stator, because if the battery was dead it would have dropped lower.
I've got off the bike at work just now and it's at 11.7v with ignition on, it recovers to 12.2 with everything off. So I started the bike back up again and reved the engine which brought it upto 11.8v. So now I'm looking at replacing both.
If it's my money, I'd test first, and the first thing I'd test would be the battery (which sounds weak from your description).
Ciao,
JZH
Yes, testing first would be the best choice. When it comes down to working on my bike, I like to go in one time. If you haven’t already search for ‘the drill’. It will walk you through electrical system diagnostics.
thanks, guys. From posting on another forum, they suggested it's most likely the R/R. I've already sorted a new battery being delivered tomorrow since I'd paid for one anyway and since the R/R is supposed to be a weak point on these bikes I figured I'd put a new one on anyway for peace of mind. I'd have liked to test it first, but I'm at work at my voltmeter isn't, if I don't order today it won't come before the weekend so I'd most likely have to limp around on it for longer.
The question is, where the hell is the R/R on the 6th gen. Everything I can find online is for the 5th. I have a haynes manual at home so I'm sure it's in there. But I'd like to know what I'm dealing with.
I would definitely not put a new battery on it until I've taken care of the RR problem. I'd also be checking the condition of the
stator, since they are a known problem area. I'd check the output, and maybe even pull the cover and visually check the condition
of the stator for burnt color.
Will do that at the same time. Inspection is just a matter of unbolting, checking, re-gasket then bolting back up again isnt it? I was looking at them online and one place said there were multiple versions and to check which you had first. Is there part numbers I should be looking to decide between?
Pull the right side fairing. The r/r is up front on the frame before the stem. Check the connector between the r/r and the stator for signs of corrosion or heat. That is in addition to the drill with your meter.
So, mine turned out to be a bad splice? The stator and r/r had been replaced by the previous owner. They both checked out fine but we started looking at a ball of electrical tape and found that the heat had melted the splices, heat shrink, and the tape into a ball. If you end up in this place, don't wrap the wires together. Just an example of how much heat they can make without a fuse blowing. May or may not have something to do with spending that whole day riding in a down pour.
thanks, guys. From posting on another forum, they suggested it's most likely the R/R. I've already sorted a new battery being delivered tomorrow since I'd paid for one anyway and since the R/R is supposed to be a weak point on these bikes I figured I'd put a new one on anyway for peace of mind. I'd have liked to test it first, but I'm at work at my voltmeter isn't, if I don't order today it won't come before the weekend so I'd most likely have to limp around on it for longer.
Hi Anth85.
Disagree with the statement of the R/R being the weak point. There are far more Stators that have failed than R/R's. Just unplug the connector to your R/R with the three yellow wires, measure the wires (from the non R/R side) to Ground, there should be no sign of low resistance if there is your Stator is shorted to ground, a very common issue with 6th gens. This issue appears to be caused by a lack of cooling oil over a specific area of the stator, they all seem to fail in the same area on the stator. Interesting the 8th gen has added forced oil cooling to resolve this situation.
My own personal experience with the 6th gen is two failed stators and no issues with the R/R.
It takes 5 minutes to test your stator. It should put out about 24 VAC at idle and about 60 VAC at 5,500 rpm. There should be no continuity to frame ground. My money is on the stator. I think you'll find your R/R is good.
thanks, lots to check out this weekend when I pull it all apart. 2 questions regarding the stator, should I be expecting to spill some oil? Is there multiple part numbers or the same one across the range?
ok so ive jumped the gun a little I know. New R/R is here and it turns out ive ordered the wrong one. Its for the 5th gen vfr by the looks of the connectors. However now i have it apart the one for the 6th gen looks nothing like what I have in front of me. What I have is the 3 yellow wires, thats the same. but for the other connector mine has 2x red, 2x green and 1x black. The new one has the same minus the black wire. Looking at the photos of the 6th gen it doesnt have a second set, it has a red and black cable direct to the battery. So ive no idea what I have??
The last link at least bypasses the stock wiring. It's a cheap version of the roadstercycle kit
That a good thing or a bad thing? Bare in mind I’m in the uk so getting stuff shipped from America will take longer than I’m happy to wait withou my bike.
I wonder if it's retrofit-able? Engines are very similar...but I assume they've drilled the case, because I don't see any specific part in the microfiche that would spray oil onto the top of the stator.
That a good thing or a bad thing? Bare in mind I’m in the uk so getting stuff shipped from America will take longer than I’m happy to wait withou my bike.
Bypassing stock wiring is a good thing. Their wiring appears smaller than what roadster provides, though. I would snip off the stator connector at a minimum, and solder the wires directly / heatshrink them.
If it were my bike I'd run the roadstercycle SH847 kit, unless I had no choice but to be on the road in days not weeks (Intl holiday shipping delays are something to consider this time of year.)
I wonder if it's retrofit-able? Engines are very similar...but I assume they've drilled the case, because I don't see any specific part in the microfiche that would spray oil onto the top of the stator.
Ciao,
JZH
The 8gen Stator housing is very different to the 6gen. Firstly, there is the addition of a Magentic Pole sensor and its wiring plus the 3 phase Stator output wires. Secondly, there is a built in oil gallery that has an orifice coupling to the engine housing, this ports oil to the stator windings giving it good heat transfer.
The other big plus as to why we are not hearing of electrical issues with 8gens is the fancy new efficient R/R and lighter electrical loads.
Bypassing stock wiring is a good thing. Their wiring appears smaller than what roadster provides, though. I would snip off the stator connector at a minimum, and solder the wires directly / heatshrink them.
If it were my bike I'd run the roadstercycle SH847 kit, unless I had no choice but to be on the road in days not weeks (Intl holiday shipping delays are something to consider this time of year.)
3
Ordered from there, means I can get it tomorrow and it'll be back on the road. I'll snip off the stator connector and solder it on with some heat-shrink for a tidier job.
I have confirmed with that manufacturer that they have done away with the stock harness and are connecting directly to the battery so that's pretty nice, but the wires do look a bit smaller. How many amps can the R/R put into the battery? I might snip off close to the R/R and replace the wiring with something a bit chunkier.
Ordered from there, means I can get it tomorrow and it'll be back on the road. I'll snip off the stator connector and solder it on with some heat-shrink for a tidier job.
I have confirmed with that manufacturer that they have done away with the stock harness and are connecting directly to the battery so that's pretty nice, but the wires do look a bit smaller. How many amps can the R/R put into the battery? I might snip off close to the R/R and replace the wiring with something a bit chunkier.
I believe most regulators are 50A, at least the FH020AA, SH847, etc. I'd imagine that one won't be going over 50A, and even then, let's be real, the VFR is not pulling 50A even with high beams, fans on, and accessories.
Update on this. Due to working full time and being a part-time matched better getting it sorted has been in bits and pieces. The new stator is in place, I couldn't find a proper gasket so had to use instant gasket which leaked oil all over the floor, so it all had to come back off and be re-applied. This time leaving it 24 hours before firing up and it seems fine. Test fires with the R/R hanging loose showed a much healthier voltage so I know all is working correctly. Last night I fitted the new R/R to the bike, took a lot longer than I'd like because my soldering iron tip is busted so joining the 3 wires from the stator took longer and resulted in a messier job than I'm happy with. I then found the R/R cables to the batter are about a foot too short and I wasn't fighting with the soldering iron anymore so I went and watched the football (soccer for the Americans on here). New more powerful soldering iron getting picked up today and I should be done tonight.
I know the 6th gen R/R is better than the 5th but I have fitted a fan to it too. I figured I have it all apart, it is not going to do any harm and I already have many spare computer fans so at worst it's a waste of 10mins, at best it extends the R/R's life.
All done, wired in a small voltmeter that’s stuck under the speedometer so I can keep and eye on it. I did noticed it takes about 5 seconds for the voltage to jump up to 13.6v on idle from 12.4v (ish I was starting and stopping for testing). I guess this is the R/R starting itself up.
How old is that battery? My new one runs between 12.7 and 14.8 (stopped vs running)
Just interested. Above 13.5V is what's expected for charging, but it's a general guideline.
And regulators don't have a startup time. That's more likely the battery dragging it down until it gets over the power drain of kicking over the starter motor.
The 8gen Stator housing is very different to the 6gen. Firstly, there is the addition of a Magentic Pole sensor and its wiring plus the 3 phase Stator output wires. Secondly, there is a built in oil gallery that has an orifice coupling to the engine housing, this ports oil to the stator windings giving it good heat transfer.
The other big plus as to why we are not hearing of electrical issues with 8gens is the fancy new efficient R/R and lighter electrical loads.
Cheers.
Seems we're hijacking the thread slightly, but check this:
I suspect the 8th gen engine case is also drilled (so a retrofit is looking unlikely), but it is funny that the stator covers have always had that large blank pad area now being used for the oil feed...
How old is that battery? My new one runs between 12.7 and 14.8 (stopped vs running)
Just interested. Above 13.5V is what's expected for charging, but it's a general guideline.
And regulators don't have a startup time. That's more likely the battery dragging it down until it gets over the power drain of kicking over the starter motor.
The battery is brand new. It was the first thing I ordered thinking it was that. Ignition on but engine not running is about 11.7v this morning, and running is 13.6v. I presumed this was because I was starting and stopping a good few times last night when testing the wiring so the battery is probably pretty low. I'll see how it goes over the next week.
Yeah, man, conditioning a battery is a thing. I bet it works even better after the weekend rides. I know you'll keep an eye on it, having a volt meter is really awesome for that, but it really sounds like you've done all the right things here.
Anth85 what stator and R/R did you buy OEM or after market? I also need both, i’ve seen after market for sale on Wemoto but not sure how good they are.
Anth85 what stator and R/R did you buy OEM or after market? I also need both, i’ve seen after market for sale on Wemoto but not sure how good they are.
Yeah, man, conditioning a battery is a thing. I bet it works even better after the weekend rides. I know you'll keep an eye on it, having a volt meter is really awesome for that, but it really sounds like you've done all the right things here.
Electrical trouble sucks. Best of luck!
thanks. The bike tends to stay put over the weekend to be honest. It's just a commuter. I might stick it on the battery charger for 24 hours so I know its full for monday.
They feely solidly built, but obviously i can't testify for reliability yet, they've only done 25 miles.
That’s a good price compared to OEM, the best OEM I can find is £260 from America on eBay. Anybody got any long term experience of electrexworld stator?
That’s a good price compared to OEM, the best OEM I can find is £260 from America on eBay. Anybody got any long term experience of electrexworld stator?
To be honest from the reading I’ve done about it, it doesn’t really matter which brand you put on, due to the lack of cooling it will eventually burn up. That’s why they added an extra oil spray on the 8th gen. just get one and expect to have to replace it in future so fit a visible volt meter so you have a warning.
If you’ve done a lot of reading, you will know that you only go factory for stator (or a quality rewind from motorcycle specific specialists) and the new MOSFET R&R.
Best choice is the new SH847, or cheaper choice the FH020 new or second hand that are very easy to find at low cost.
To be honest from the reading I’ve done about it, it doesn’t really matter which brand you put on, due to the lack of cooling it will eventually burn up. That’s why they added an extra oil spray on the 8th gen. just get one and expect to have to replace it in future so fit a visible volt meter so you have a warning.
The SH847 may reduce stator heat, according to some.
To be honest from the reading I’ve done about it, it doesn’t really matter which brand you put on, due to the lack of cooling it will eventually burn up. That’s why they added an extra oil spray on the 8th gen. just get one and expect to have to replace it in future so fit a visible volt meter so you have a warning.
How does the volt meter work, what do you look for as a warning?
How does the volt meter work, what do you look for as a warning?
I just have a switched live feed off a rear bulb, and the voltmeter screen on the dash. If the bike isn't getting upto and above 13v when in use I know there is a charging issue so to the check the stator and r/r. Without it i might go out on a long ride and run out of electric mid ride and be stranded.
I wonder how that could be. Doesn't make much sense. The alternator, i.e., rotor and stator, will produce the same amount of electricity
independent of the R/R so that shouldn't affect the stator condition. Wishful thinking perhaps. 🙂
This seems to be the logic, but I'd like a true EE to break it down and see if it has any weight.
Quote
this is fundamentally different in that in a Series design, instead of diverting (shunting) excess current back to the stator to control the output voltage, the regulation works by interrupting the current path to the load. This means that the Regulator ONLY supplies current demanded by the load itself, and no excess current parallel path through a shunt. So the net result is that this type of Regulator is MUCH kinder on the stator because the stator is always supplying much less current! So the stator does not get so hot and its reliability increases significantly.
This seems to be the logic, but I'd like a true EE to break it down and see if it has any weight.
I don't know where that second quote came from, but that isn't how a VFR alternator works. That description only fits an alternator with electromagnets, like cars use, not
permanent magnets which most motorcycles use. The VFR outputs a set amount of electricity depending on RPM, nothing the R/R does will affect that.
I don't know where that second quote came from, but that isn't how a VFR alternator works. That description only fits an alternator with electromagnets, like cars use, not
permanent magnets which most motorcycles use. The VFR outputs a set amount of electricity depending on RPM, nothing the R/R does will affect that.
