BIKES THAT ARE NOT VFR's RIDE REPORT

My 5G is getting old.

The new 8G is not much of an update from the 6G (disappointingly).

So I thought I would start a new topic regarding ride tests on other bikes.

It doesn't need to be just sport tourers, any modern road bike will do.

I'm lucky that I have a lot of friends that I've been riding with for many years and trust as great riders, so we often do long trips and swap bikes.

I even sometimes take their bikes on solo rides when they are not riding to get a different perspective (nothing beats great mates).

I will add my experiences and hope some of you do as well so that other riders can get some information on how the other half live.

2013 Triumph 675  Street Triple R

What a hoot of a bike.

107HP, 51ft-lb of torque and 189kg/416lb wet.

The steering is super precise, I still don't know how this bike turns, you just look at the corner exit and the bike is already heading there.

The suspension is first class, even with my 5G updated suspension it can't come close to how good this bike is.

Nothing upsets it, heavy throttle, ripples mid corner, braking, off camber, the bike just holds a line like it's on rails and does so without being harsh.

Braking is also spectacular, stoppies are a breeze (not that I intentionally tried).

That motor is full of character, the offbeat sound of that triple and the induction noise when you open the throttle with purpose is seriously addictive.

It really gives the 5G sound a run for its money.

It has great torque from 3500rpm onwards, and will easily out accelerate the 5G (and I'm running 2 extra teeth on the rear), specially on overtakes with not much room.

Hit 7000rpm and the bike becomes a different beast, it just howls but starts to run out of puff as it nears the 13,000rpm red line.

It is also super smooth with a very slick gearbox.

The whole package is very tight and the quality of parts and finish is up there with Honda.

The sitting position is much more upright, the seat to peg placement is like the VFR, but because you sit up it feels a lot less cramped.

As expected, it has no wind protection, so long trips get a bit tiring. But the upside is a much quieter helmet as it has no turbulance.

I normally only wear a tee shirt under my leathers here all year round without a problem, but on this day on the STR I felt the cold (it's mid winter here and it was 19°C)

The strange thing was that I got a sore left arm on a 200km ride, not sure why but I would need to change or adjust the very wide bars if I was to own one.

The bar end mirrors are only there to pass inspection as they were absolutely useless.

It was running Rosso III's and you could not make a tyre that suits this bike better (I also use them on my 5G so I know very well how they behave).

It was a great day and I had some serious fun, I'm seriously considering the new 765R as an option to replace my 5G, but I've never owned a bike without a fairing which holds me back.

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2018 BMW R1200RS

125HP, 92ft-lb of torque and 236kg/520lb wet.

I really had great expectations for this bike, and really wanted to like it.

The motor is fantastic, huge amount of grunt everywhere. There is no need to work the gearbox with this bike, and there is no point revving it out as it has much more in the middle than at the end of the rev range.

Suspension and brakes are first class, There is an excellent connection between the right wrist and what is happening with the rear wheel.

At no time did I think the shaft drive made this bike worse, quite the opposite, it gave a solid direct feel of what the rear wheel was doing without any slop or free play.

As a matter of fact, I haven't come across another bike that has such a direct connection, feel and control with the rear end.

The front end however is completely different.

This bike has no connection or feed back from the front wheel. So much so that I lost the front end on a hard right hander without any warning.

It scared the crap out of me.

The bike was wearing Road 5's that were only a couple of thousand km old.

I ride feeling what the front wheel is doing, and the set up on my 5G has greatly improved this from stock so I had trouble riding the RS with any confidence.

I mentioned this to the owner (he's a California Superbike School coach) and he stated that he hates it for the same reason and loses the front end regularly.

He has it for sale and went back to his loved 2011 R1200R.

Quality of parts and finish are first rate as would be expected at this price range.

Riding position is more upright than the VFR and much more comfortable.

I really wanted to like this bike, but was left dissapointed, shame really as it's a great looking bike.

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This is just a web picture but it's exactly the same bike I rode bags and all.

2016 BMW S1000RR

199 HP, 83.3 ft-lb of torque, and 450 lbs wet

(As reported on a different thread) This is my first liter bike which I bought after a convoluted journey after mild dis-satisfaction with my 6gen VFR. In short, my disappointment with the 6gen was that it was mildly overweight. But I wanted Honda to solve this issue, not take mine apart, replace, remove, or alter parts from the existing bike. But in summary, the 6gen was 'ponderous' in the twisties, but otherwise executed everything else I expect of a motorcycle.

About the RR, in 2009 BWM finally acknowledged that Superbike racing dominance requires an in-line 4 and created the most advanced 999cc inline-4 engine at the time (its 199 hp is more than my 2nd new CAR, a 1992 Mitsu Eclipse AWD at 197hp). Surrounding that engine, was a bike with all the technologies, traction control, ABS, 3 riding modes, and clutchless quick shifter. And of course, top of the line braking and suspension components. And in 2016, a perfect storm of trade-in value, BMW discounts, and a motivated dealer with a red white and blue RR on its floor made me an owner.

The RR always feels planted, even over bumpy asphalt. My trade-in CBR600RR never inspired confidence, and I relied on previous experience, as in, "I didn't slide out at this lean angle before, should be good now." First gear in the RR is only for breaking friction, gear up as soon as your reaction time allows, the bike pulls harder in 2nd than 1st. The top end far exceeds any speed limit on legal highways. I can blip the throttle, and pass cars between 95 and 100. Its fortunate that Colorado interstates have 75mph speed limits.

One issue is that my 30" inseam has me standing on tip-toe with standard footwear. I can tolerate some stopping with my current hiking boots. I have resorted to thick heel motorcycle boots (SIDI Adventure 2s) for when I anticipate traffic, which with Colorado's aging infrastructure is often. But I could barely fit the Adventure 2s under the shift lever. Adjusting the shift lever height is mildly complex. In short, quick-disconnect the wires to the quick-shifter (or shift-assist), wrench the shift rod nuts loose, spin rod & quick-shifter around to desired shift lever position, wrench rod nuts tight, re-connect quick-shifter.

Other than the 30" inseam (or shorter) issue, the ergonomics on the RR is the same as the CBR, i.e. slightly more weight on your wrists, but easily tolerable for even long trips. Even riding my old 6gen on a long ride, I'd sit up a bit, one hand on the throttle. The Premium package (which almost makes the bike an HP4 model) has cruise control, a motorcycle option I've always been leery of, can be a great fatigue reducer when used in the appropriate situations: low/no traffic, long stretch of highway, especially for the sit-up maneuver. Premium also has heated grips, and until I had them, thought they're for whiny HD riders (wink). Not any more, I can wear summer (thin) gloves in winter, stay comfortable, and keep a good feel for the road through the grips.

Its not the perfect bike, especially for those of shorter stature, but its a competent machine for a much wider range of uses than just track days or acquiring speeding tickets. Don't dismiss it out of hand because of its super-sport design when considering a VFR alternative.

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The S1000rr was going to be my next post, but since yours covers everything I was going to say I'll leave it alone.

It is a missile on wheels!!!

I have 29" inseam and have the same trouble.

My other bike is a '14 cbr1k and it is more than enough in performance and handling and also reasonably comfortable, I guess, but it is just missing some character.

I have had my name down on a list for a month for test rides with local dealers of bmw s1000rr (delayed with manufacturing supply issues?) & aprilia rsv4 1100f (delay for who knows why).

anyhow when I get a test ride I'll report back unless the big H gets it shit together with THE RVF😉

I've always heard that, even though the BMW is very refined and fill of features, they have reliably problems. A BMW car over 50k miles is a maintenance mess, I don't know what the number is for bikes but I'm betting a lot lower.

I like the vfr but I do a lot of 2 up on it and I'd like it in a 1200. I hate the riding position of the st but the position of the CBR is a back breaker. The vfr is a great middle ground.

My only bike these days is a 2014 Ducati Monster 1200.

They say weight is around 460 with full fluids, 8x Ft Lbs, and 13x HP.

My 29" inseam gets both feet flat on the ground.

It rips off the line and roll on acceleration is instant and eeehah rapid! If you are anywhere near legal speeds.

It handles great, a sweet dance partner in the twisties.

It is red, it is rolling art work. It is beautiful.

It gets low 40's gas mileage ripping back roads. But, it needs premium.

Service intervals are much longer than older models and the newer ones are more reliable. 18,000 miles between valve adjustments.

New drive belts every 5 years.

The header pipe wants to roast my right leg. This is mainly an issue at a long stop light.

It has traction control and ABS. The front brake is good, the back is somewhere between useless and wooden. typical Italian, and like the 2 Tuonos I had before.

Who needs a back brake anyway?

You need to use a firm boot and shift like you mean it to avoid false neutrals. Apparently this is typical Ducati. This mostly went away by the 10,000 mile mark. Every bike I ever owned got a false neutral now and then. The TFT dash is not readable when the sub shines directly on it. I think this affects any bike that has one of these, not just Ducati. A Speedymoto rear axle slider also acts as spools, so you can use your usual rear stand. You just won't be removing the wheel with it.

Imho the stock pipes sounds really good and not too quiet. This is good since a full Termignoni system is $2500 or more. It is naked, but the wind does not bother me until well into arrest me and impound my bike forever speeds. So,it does not bother me.

I had my VFR for almost 19 years and over 80,000 miles and it was a great bike. I wished for less weight and more power. I got it in spades. Bought my Duc in November 2017 with under 2,500 miles and a new rear tire. Out the door including 9.5% tax was a little over $11,000. So the price is not as bad as you may think when you hear the name Ducati.

TLDR. I love love love this thing! The good is really good, and the down side is minimal.😁

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I traded in my 5G and my ST1100 and bought an ST1300 as a replacement for both. Aside from the weight which can be an issue at a standstill, it has a lovely balance and is fast and steady on the open road. Front brakes are surprisingly fierce and of course the bike has ABS plus an adjustable screen, and a really good riding position. I've got an adjustable Nitron shock plus a Racetech equipped front end, and the 1300 can really hustle on bumpy roads, running out of ground clearance can be an issue when pressing on; that is a consequnce of the low-set footpegs that give my ageing knees an easier time of it. . The engine is all you could wish for in a big lazy V4, very smooth, torquey but also free revving, and with a 29L tank I can easily cover 450km in a sitting. 

I also have a VTR1000F when I want to ride like more of a hooligan.

I test rode both the Yamaha Niken and also the Tracer 900. Nice bikes but just did not grab me, the Tracer seat felt like it belonged on a bicycle, handling was nice, power good but the wind off the screen was hideous. The Niken was impressive (loved the cruise control) but did not shout "buy me!", felt a bit ponderous at low speed but impressively stable after that. Not sure that I really liked the 3-cylinder engine either (but I have tried and liked the Triumph 675) but many years of V4's may have coloured my judgement.

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Nice two wheeled car Terry 🙂

I must admit to being spoiled with the 5G song.

I find most IL4's lacking in character.

2009 FZ1. I bought it highly modded with R1 forks Ohlins internals, Penski shock, Hyperpro steering damper, Rizoma bars, Driven rear sets, power commander 5 with quick shifter, Ivans fuel cut eliminator, airbox modded and secondary butterflys removed, full Yoshimura CF exhaust and dyno tuned by Gary Dean racing and various other goodies. Hard to review this as an FZ1 as I test rode a completely stock 2nd gen FZ1 which felt underpowered, heavy handling and absolutely flat suspension and steering wise compared to mine. Compared to my 5th gen VFR also highly modded, this feels like a big boys bike. Seating position is about perfect for sport riding or sport touring however fuel milage on my modded version is around 30mpg if I am lucky. This bike has had it's share of electrical gremlins which I chalk up to all the electronic modifications aimed at more power and the 90k miles of service it has seen. With regular maintenance these bikes are very reliable. Mechanic was surprised at what good condition the motor was in for a + 90k mile motor.  Like the VFR this bike is no one night stand. Think long term riding mate.  It's a great all around bike that wears many hats just like the VFR. 

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I've gone the other way.  My run-around bike, and trackday bike is a Yamaha XSR700.  it's small...reminds me of a Standard version of my old SV650 in my profile pic...but looks cooler IMO.  I have a trackday setup for the bike too...much better than the VFR...over 100lb lighter..made my own CF fairing...needs tweaked.

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The MT07 has been a great success here in Oz and rightly so.

They look like a fun bike with plenty of poke.

I agree the fairing needs tweaking, but bloody good effort on your part. Well done.

A bit more info on how the bike performs would be ideal.

For some reason I thought the XSR700 was supposed to be a distant relation to the old XS750 I had.

But that was a 1977 model with 3 cylinders, what was I thinking?

21 hours ago, VFROZ

Nice two wheeled car Terry 🙂

I must admit to being spoiled with the 5G song.

I find most IL4's lacking in character.

Just a little harsh, I feel!

ST1300's aren't short of gear drive noise, as they include a gear drive (that is the same layout as the 5G cam drive) for the alternator, as well as two gear driven balancer shafts. I do miss the 180 degree firing order of the VFR, the 1300 uses a 360 degree crank, which I tell myself is the same as an RC30....

6 hours ago, VFROZ

The MT07 has been a great success here in Oz and rightly so.

They look like a fun bike with plenty of poke.

I agree the fairing needs tweaking, but bloody good effort on your part. Well done.

A bit more info on how the bike performs would be ideal.

If I was just doing trackdays I'd just buy someone's twins race/trackday SV650. Handles similarly. I've added a Nitron rear twin clicker, Matris cartridges up front, aftermarket rearsets and woodcraft type handle bars. With the lower bars it sits very similar to my 2000 VFR.  Torque is abundant for a small motor...and the light weight doesn't hurt.

It is so much less ponderous than the VFR at slow speeds...It is my around town bike...love hearing up and heading out.  

Matt

2018 BMW S1000XR

160HP, 83ft-lb of torque, 218kg/502lb wet.

This bike is really tall, I had a lot of trouble with this as I could not reach the ground.

We swapped bikes on a country ride in the middle of nowhere, me thinking it wouldn't be a problem as I would not need to stop.

30 minutes in we hit road works and they had ripped up the road with a grader and had built a massive crown on the middle of the lane.

I went: "F#*K, what do I do now?"

I had to stand on the left peg and jump off when I stopped, Taking off was the same, left leg on peg, take off, swing right leg back onto seat.

My mates all laughed at me. No one offered any help or swap bikes. Bastards.

What a weapon, the motor is fantastic, brakes and suspension are first class.

Up and down quick shifter, active electronic suspension, and cornering ABS and traction control.

For something so big, you can really throw it about.

Brakes are frighteningly powerful, and its cornering ability is amazing.

The sound of that motor (my mate runs no muffler) and the backfires during gear changes are something to behold.

The motor is very buzzy, so much so that I found it really annoying. You can feel it through the tank and seat.

Stting position is very upright, handlebars are so wide that you have huge amounts of control.

Flipping it left right is a breeze.

I'm sure this bike is fine if you're over 7'6".

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Thank you VFROZ for posting this.

Two years ago I traded my 2010 7th gen for a 2017 Multistrada, and tried to explain it here on VFRD in a post called Talking to Myself. I'll get my thoughts together and do a comparison on your thread. But I'm happy with my decision so far, about 13,500 miles in. A few hours ago, Klamath River mouth, northern CA:

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The Multistrada looks like a good touring bike. I think the seat is on the high side?

I was enamored of Monsters for a long time, so stuck with deciding which Monster.

Torque is good, yeah!

I just turned over 10K on my 2016 Multistrada 1200 S. 160hp, 100-ft-lb torque claimed, at about 525 lb dry. rwhp probably 135. But with a button click you can dial that back to 100hp. It's a computer on wheels; traction control, wheelie control, abs, electronic suspension front and rear, angle sensors. The four available riding modes can all be customized by changing any of the settings and saving it to your own custom configuration. The 1200 changes are done through the bar controls, the 1260 that came out in 2018 also lets you change and save set ups through an app. It's got so much torque it's a blast to ride and in the right gear/rpm will get you to triple digits like now, if you avoid the small flat spot in the middle of the rev range. And it's got real electronic cruise control, cornering lights, gear indicator, and on and on.

At idle with stock exhaust I think it sounds a little like a Briggs and Stratton lawnmower, but when the throttle cracks open it's got a roar that's intoxicating. I plan to pay the Termignoni tax and put a proper exhaust on eventually.

It is a tall bike and carries that weight higher than a VFR. For me, not growing up on dirt bikes, the position and spread out bars were a change but I've gotten used to it after lopping an inch off each side of the bar. It tours with ease, the wife enjoys it immensely, the bags look good on it, and the bike looks good with them off. I get a solid 40 mpg every single tank.

But it wouldn't be Italian without a few little things. The right front fork seal is on it's second leak, the fuel gauge is on it's way out, both common problems. My (used) bike came with a 5 year all expenses paid warranty, so it hasn't cost me anything except a couple trips to the dealer. The heated grips were useless, replaced with a $40 Symtec kit.

The biggest complaint is wind buffeting at the shoulder and helmet, which equates to noise, another common complaint, I'm on my 3rd screen with some screen offsets that's helped a lot.

It's really grown on me and I can see having it long term. The 2018 1260 had some improvements but not enough for me to switch. However, apparently Ducati is set to announce a V4 Multistrada in October, probably due out late next year along with the V4 streetfighter they've already previewed. Rumor is the V4 Multi will get some form of active radar and be well over 170hp.

Given all that, my '99 VFR is just as good of a bike, probably because it fits me like an old pair of leather shoes that just get more comfortable with age.

7 hours ago, vfrcapn

Given all that, my '99 VFR is just as good of a bike, probably because it fits me like an old pair of leather shoes that just get more comfortable with age.

And that’s the crux of it. 

I think it’s more of old slippers than leather shoes though. 

After so many kilometers on my 5G, I just know what it will do. I no longer have to think about it, it just comes natural. 

In my last Phillip Island trip I badly lost my front end, as it locked up and went full lock to the right on a very fast right hander, I was too eager with braking into the corner. 

I never panicked, just went off the brake and accelerated, the bike just recovered and it kept going around the corner. 

Nothing like feeling as one with your machine. 

But im also a realist, bikes are just so much better now. 

Theres a reason why Multistradas have taken out Pikes Peak so many times. 

VFROZ, 7/27/2019 at 9:26 PM

My 5G is getting old.

The new 8G is not much of an update from the 6G (disappointingly).

So I thought I would start a new topic regarding ride tests on other bikes.

It doesn't need to be just sport tourers, any modern road bike will do.

I'm lucky that I have a lot of friends that I've been riding with for many years and trust as great riders, so we often do long trips and swap bikes.

I even sometimes take their bikes on solo rides when they are not riding to get a different perspective (nothing beats great mates).

I will add my experiences and hope some of you do as well so that other riders can get some information on how the other half live.

Respect your opinion but mine is that the 8th gen Standard (less the junk that is useless on the Deluxe except ABS). has very significant changes.  It's still a VFR (duh) but, by far is the best one yet after owning a 1999, 2006, and not the standard 2014.  The '14 with a slip on (much better very low rpm torque improvement), is the best VFR in twisties due to a significantly more useable torque/power band.  The electrical system doesn't have the legendary "will leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere" problems.  LED lighting is significantly better and it does everything well with a compromise.  If one doesn't like the compromises then buy about 6 bikes necessary to not have compromises   Just deal with 6 bike's compromises, lol.

Only bike owned I'll review is a long gone 2006 R1200RT.  Totally reliable sport / touring labeled boxer.  The bike had loads of torque and was slightly quicker than a VFR.  It would actually handle twisties on par with a VFR (they are what they are) but the riding position was designed to be uncomfortable for anyone with less than a 32" inseam, which is me.  The only reason I extricated it from my stable was due to horrible riding comfort.  The shaft drive has no disadvantages IMO, throttle response was good, and suspension was very good and comfortable.  Could not get over the height of the bike and seating discomfort.  It was made to be an all day distance bike, which it is, just not with me on it.      

If you're going old, here is a 1977 XS750, same color as the one I had. Before I painted it red.

Triple disc brakes, self cancelling turn signals, and 3 into 2 exhaust.

It was my second bike and coming off a Honda CL360 acceleration was fierce.

I think it was one of the faster bikes of it's day.

You can see the spindly right side up fork, shaft drive, and the way old school dual shocks. Tires are far better now too.

Had a kick starter plus electric button. They call it a 750, and the engine cases were stamped 747CC.

So, I have kick started a 747! 😄

Problems. Second gear quit working and only made an evil grinding sound. A friend reworked the trans for me, replaced shift drum, dogs, and a couple gears iirc.

With a bank of 3 carbs, and 3 sets of breaker points and condensors on a plate that you rotated to set the overall timing, tuning it was beyond my skill level.

Yeah, remember breaker points? LOL.

Probably could have used a better seat and other mods. I never liked the low pipe. But I could barely afford the used bike and keep it running. Forget mods.

Had it a couple years and sold it due to a job transfer from IL to SoCal. Hope the sailor at Great Lakes that bought it in 1987 liked it as much as I did. 😁

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Getting back to the R1200RS, I had a longish test ride back to back with an R1200R. Really wanted to love the RS but it simply did not handle as well as the R. Before the ride I was almost certain the RS would be a future bike for me but now considering the R kitted out for touring. Also had seat time on S1000XR, seat height was okay for me, thought the bike was near perfect just a bit too expensive for my budget. It’s one of those bikes that make me feel like I’m a better rider than I actually am. 

Strange isn’t it?

The RS with USD forks has no front end feel, but the older R with duolever front end gives better feed back. 

The R with tall screen and hard bags is what my mate went back to. 

The XR is hard to upset, it has a very planted feel to it and handles superb. 

Just the height, price and buzzines I couldn’t live with. 

VFROZ, 8/12/2019 at 6:29 PM

Strange isn’t it?

The RS with USD forks has no front end feel, but the older R with duolever front end gives better feed back. 

The R with tall screen and hard bags is what my mate went back to. 

The XR is hard to upset, it has a very planted feel to it and handles superb. 

Just the height, price and buzzines I couldn’t live with. 

I don’t believe the newer R1200R’s have the duolever, almost certain the one I rode had standard forks. Which makes the ride difference even more a mystery. 

One of my other bikes is. Kawasaki Versys-X 300. I bought it as a winter bike & green lane bike in the spring/summer/autumn.

It uses the same engine as the Ninja 300, with modified exhaust & intake. It has lower gearing, wide bars a sit up riding position & the world worst seat. I’v recovered the seat with a seat concepts foam & cover. It will hold 75-80 on the motorways & I have taken it places off-road that Kawasaki never intended nor envisioned !

I had it out for a day a couple of weekends back with a friend who is a proper off reader & he was impressed by both the bike & my capability. We went everywhere he did, and we even managed a clean run through the worst parts, which he fell off on as did another rider from another group. Leigh was using his DR350 to give me a chance to keep up, his normal steed is a WR250R.

The Versys, managed admirably, but I have fitted a proper bash plate which came in handy on a couple of occasions. It will do 250-300 miles on a 17L tank if you are not caning it. So with a better seat it’s a great little bike.

Here’s some pics for your amusement, enjoy.

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2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT

Wet weight with luggage is right around 500lbs., makes about 63 HP at the rear wheel, classification... umm, a tall standard, a road adventure bike, sorta sporty, touring light machine.  The Versys 650 is funny that way, it doesn't really fit neatly into any category.  Looks like an adventure bike at first glance but with it's alloy wheels, underslung exhaust, street tires and exposed bits of everything it has no business off a well groomed fire road.  The LT model is a touring bike for sure but it lacks almost every nicety most tourers come with and some would say underpowered (I wouldn't).  It has sporty half fairings and leans into corners like nobody's business with complete confidence but it lacks power and posture.  It probably has most in common with the UJM's of the 70's and 80's, a capable do-it-all bike that just grew a bit too tall.

Specifically the bike has a parallel twin motor that is fairly torquey but the factory fueling is somewhat bungled.  Trying to ride in any gear higher than second in the city and the bike will bog down wheezing for fuel.  This is probably the bike's worst attribute, so much so that getting a new fuel map is just about the best modification you can do.  Out on the twisty highways and backroads the bike is just a peach and completely in it's element.  Completely neutral when leaned over into a turn you will feel complete confidence especially if you are a rookie rider.

The OEM luggage system is keyed to the ignition with lockable, easily removable and discretely integrated luggage.  No tubular frames just two indents molded into the tail section of the bike and a rubber boot near the passenger pegs.  Each saddlebag has about 28 liters capacity and will easily hold a full-face helmet.  The only knock on the luggage is the odd shape, fine for carrying most stuff but if you are a commuter and need to pack a laptop you could be having trouble.

In a nutshell the bike is extremely comfortable, excellent range (250 miles theoretically possible but I usually fill up around 210), adjustable windscreen, handguards and trip computers that measure range and fuel mileage.  Just a neat package and when I bought it in Spring of 2017 it only cost $8,000 brand new as it was last year's model.

What would make it better, decent fueling as I mentioned before and a factory centerstand, even if it were only an option.  Also a bit tall and top heavy, especially with a full tank of gas.

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Interesting to know about the fueling of 2016 Versys 650. I had ridden one early generation 650 and it left me tingling everywhere. Lol, should have named it Vibrator 650 instead. 

Hopefully they have addressed that later models.

2 minutes ago, Tiutis

Interesting to know about the fueling of 2016 Versys 650. I had ridden one early generation 650 and it left me tingling everywhere. Lol, should have named it Vibrator 650 instead. 

Hopefully they have addressed that later models.

The vibration is almost gone with the third generation.

2012 Kawasaki Ninja 650.

This was the third generation of the Ninja 650 line and a big departure from the previous.  Completely new frame, updated exhaust, improved brakes, two piece seat and a retuned motor.  The bike makes somewhere in the low 60's hp at the rear wheel, a few more ponies than the Versys 650.  It weighs around 475lbs curb weight.  The suspension is basic but decent.  It's interesting to compare to my Versys as they share the same motor.  The Ninja is a LOT more twitchy and fun to hustle from side to side.  Great to throw into a corner but the Versys is more confidence inspiring as it holds it's line better.  I like the tuning on the Ninja motor more than the Versys.  I find the gearbox more useable at slower speeds and it's noticeably quicker off the line.  The ergonomics are odd, it has a tubular handlebar that gives it an almost standard/upright reach however the footpegs are a bit high and back and are more sporty.  Great for cornering but can get a bit uncomfortable for all day rides.

The bike has a fairly large tank, 4.2 gallons and it's easy to get 175 miles and have reached 190+ a few times before the fuel gauge begins flashing.  Between the range and comfort the bike makes a decent sport tourer, just drop some soft saddlebags on it and ride towards the horizon.  I had done two 2,000+ miles trips on this bike, rode it through rain, snow and up mountains and it never let me down.  I always thought it was a big miss that Kawasaki never made a version of this bike with the same hard saddlebags they have for the Versys and the Ninja 1000.  Matter of fact the 4th gen and current version of the bike has tilted more towards the sporty side than my 3rd gen so the big K doesn't really see this as a mid-size sport tourer as many owners had.

There really aren't any serious negatives about this bike considering it's price point and mission design.  A comfortable, great handling bike that I think looks pretty good too.

[image: 04ninja-please_zpsbcb68eff.jpg]

[image: VT-Hwy-9_zps6efbf2e0.jpg]

My first proper motorcycle was a 1984 Honda Nighthawk 650 SC.

I didn't buy it new, it was already close to twenty years old when it became mine.  It had approximately 30k miles on it and other than a slight drip along the gas tank seam it rode reliably for the four years I owned it.  I repaired the drip with a sealant kit, tedious work but very effective.  About the bike itself, it had an inline four cylinder motor that made about 72HP, the bottom end was very weak with a hit at the top of the rev range.  Brakes were weak, especially the rear drum but once you got used to them it was okay, wasn't dangerous.

The bike had a lot of great features that were really progressive considering this bike was built in 84 (first model came out in 83).  First, it had hydraulic lifters which meant no valve checks or adjustments, maintenance was so easy, change your oil, watch your brake pads and fluids and tires.  It had a shaft drive that was virtually maintenance free.  The bike had adjustable suspension but by the time I got it age had worn it out and I never did anything to revive the shocks.  The instrument cluster had an LCD fuel gauge and a gear position indicator as well as the requisite speed, odo, tach and trip meters.

A comfortable standard that I tried to use as a tourer, putting a gps, soft luggage and a windscreen.  The bike was pretty good on a long trip with the exception of it's fuel range, around 130 miles and you would have to switch to reserve.  I think the farthest I ever pushed it on reserve was to 150 miles.  Handling was okay but compared to a modern bike it had a lot to be desired, that said I met a lot of Nighthawk owners that could make their bikes dance through the twisties.

I ran the odo up to 51k miles before I sold it.  I was reluctant to let it go, I really loved the classic lines, easy maintenance and reliability.  You can still find these bikes on CL and most owners are generally older and take decent care of their bikes coupled with the overall stone cold reliability and cheap prices make them great finds.

[image: nh2.jpg]

[image: nh3.jpg]

[image: nh-cluster.jpg]

Never had a Nighthawk, but they looked cool.

I had an '85 Yamaha Maxim 700. A competitor I guess.

Modernish looking gauge cluster there. 😁

15 hours ago, VFR4Lee

Never had a Nighthawk, but they looked cool.

I had an '85 Yamaha Maxim 700. A competitor I guess.

Modernish looking gauge cluster there. 😁

Same with me in regards to both the Maxim and Raiden from Yamaha, always wanted one just cause I liked the looks.

That instrument cluster is so 80's, especially with the grid pattern, I fully expect Max Headroom to appear and start jibber-jabbering.

2002 Honda Nighthawk 750.

I bought this bike and only owned it for one year.  I didn't sell it because it was a bad machine, it was purchased as a second bike so my friend could use it while visiting from out of state when we went to a rally.  That's one of the things that makes Nighthawks and in particular 750 versions so great, they are generally owned by mature riders, extremely inexpensive on the used market, rider friendly in terms of power and stone cold reliable.  You also get most if not all your money back when you resell.

The Nighthawk 750 has an air-cooled inline four making about 75HP.  It is the most basic of basics in design and a step backward in features from the previous generations Nighthawk 650 SC and 700 S that came before it.  Gone is the shaft drive, dual discs, fuel gauge, gear position indicator and the centerstand became optional equipment.  This version of the Nighthawk was built to a price point with the only luxuries being a tachometer and bungee hooks.  From a mechanical standpoint they did keep the hydraulic lifters which is great.

On the road the bike is super nice to ride, the 757cc motor just purrs along almost as smooth as an electric motor and it is completely understressed, even when pushing the bike you feel that it's not working that hard.  I think the handling is better than that of the 650 version of the Nighthawk but it's not as fast and weighs a bit more.  A lot of the superior handling comes from the tire choices available compared to the older Nighthawks.  The range is improved as the fuel tank is close to five gallons and getting 45 to 50 mpg is pretty easy to do without even thinking about it while riding.

Being a UJM it's a completely flexible platform to set up how you like, commuter, tourer, weekend toy whatever you like.  There aren't a lot of OEM accessories but the second hand market has plenty of accessories for you to personalize the bike.  The Nighthawk 750 is one of those bikes you could buy as your first and keep until you quit riding as long as you're not tempted by shiny new things or gobs of power, the Nighthawk 750 is extremely satisfying in it's rider friendly simplicity.

[image: nh1_zps6ye6i33r.jpg]

[image: nh2_zpsdg3ctb6y.jpg]

[image: 18%20Nighthawk-on-Nine_zpsuik64c1u.jpg]

I've only ridden a couple other bikes in recent years, but here's a quick word or two about each.  Sorry, no photos.

Yamaha FZ6:  During a group ride, a friend and I exchanged bikes.  He'd owned a VFR, so he knew exactly what to expect.  The FZ6 was a bike I'd considered when I bought my first motorcycle in 2006, but I decided not to spend that much on a first bike, not knowing how much I would ride, or whether I'd even enjoy it.  The FZ6 was lighter and a bit nimbler than my 6th gen VFR with more relaxed ergonomics.  The front end was definitely lighter, and coupled with the more upright seating position, I felt like the front end was too light, like I couldn't lean the bike over as much in the corners because there wasn't enough weight there to keep it planted.  I don't know if that's even true, but that's how it felt.  The windshield was great, but maybe too good, as I like having some air on me.  The stillness behind the screen was kind of strange.  Anyway, it was a nice enough bike, and I'm sure I'd have been happy with it as a first bike, but in the end I bought a used Kaw. ZR-7S which I rode for five months before upgrading to my VFR.

Bolt R-Spec:  A few years ago I test rode a new Star (Yamaha) Bolt R-Spec during a demo day.  I was thinking of adding a cruiser to my garage, something I still consider doing.  I really liked it.  Not a bike you'd probably want for long days or tours, especially being a 5-speed, but it's a comfortable bike with decent torque, and there are some nice OEM and aftermarket mods available.  I have very little cruiser riding experience, but I think the ride was decent, the seat comfortable enough, and the ergonomics pretty straight-forward.  I liked that it was a cruiser/bobber with mid-mount footpegs and some modern style and features, not just a retro-style cruiser.  If I were to buy a cruiser, especially more of a bobber, I'd still heavily consider a Bolt R-Spec.

FZ6 was also a bike I wanted really bad for my 2nd bike. It looked good, sounded good, and like 6th gen, which I ended up getting, had the sexy under seat exhaust! Sounds like a great bike for sure!

Calculon, 8/29/2019 at 12:56 AM

2002 Honda Nighthawk 750.

I bought this bike and only owned it for one year.  I didn't sell it because it was a bad machine, it was purchased as a second bike so my friend could use it while visiting from out of state when we went to a rally.  That's one of the things that makes Nighthawks and in particular 750 versions so great, they are generally owned by mature riders, extremely inexpensive on the used market, rider friendly in terms of power and stone cold reliable.  You also get most if not all your money back when you resell.

The Nighthawk 750 has an air-cooled inline four making about 75HP.  It is the most basic of basics in design and a step backward in features from the previous generations Nighthawk 650 SC and 700 S that came before it.  Gone is the shaft drive, dual discs, fuel gauge, gear position indicator and the centerstand became optional equipment.  This version of the Nighthawk was built to a price point with the only luxuries being a tachometer and bungee hooks.  From a mechanical standpoint they did keep the hydraulic lifters which is great.

On the road the bike is super nice to ride, the 757cc motor just purrs along almost as smooth as an electric motor and it is completely understressed, even when pushing the bike you feel that it's not working that hard.  I think the handling is better than that of the 650 version of the Nighthawk but it's not as fast and weighs a bit more.  A lot of the superior handling comes from the tire choices available compared to the older Nighthawks.  The range is improved as the fuel tank is close to five gallons and getting 45 to 50 mpg is pretty easy to do without even thinking about it while riding.

Being a UJM it's a completely flexible platform to set up how you like, commuter, tourer, weekend toy whatever you like.  There aren't a lot of OEM accessories but the second hand market has plenty of accessories for you to personalize the bike.  The Nighthawk 750 is one of those bikes you could buy as your first and keep until you quit riding as long as you're not tempted by shiny new things or gobs of power, the Nighthawk 750 is extremely satisfying in it's rider friendly simplicity.

[image: nh1_zps6ye6i33r.jpg]

[image: nh2_zpsdg3ctb6y.jpg]

[image: 18%20Nighthawk-on-Nine_zpsuik64c1u.jpg]

Those are some lovely pictures Calculon.

I was lucky enough to own a CBX750F back in the day (1984?) from new and clocked up about 30,000km on it. This used the same basic engine as your CB750 but in a higher state of tune with a claimed 95 bhp, and in a chassis that wasn't unlike the first VF750F with 16" wheel and Pro-link rear suspension. Honda bought the CBX out as a bit of a stop-gap between the VF (which was getting lots of bad press for camshaft wear and dodgy cam tensioners) and the 86 VFR750. My recollection is a bike that sounded quite gravelly at low revs but went off with a great shriek when you got the revs up. 

[image: Terry Honda CBX750F (1).jpg]

[image: Terry Honda CBX750F a (1).jpg]

I so wanted one of them CBX750's back in the day, they looked hot.

Ended up with a VFR750F two years later instead, never looked back.

That was after two years on the GPz900r, now that was a bike to remember, turned sports motorcycling in it's head back then, there had never been anything like it beforehand.

I only ended up on the GPz after the unfortunate time owning a Laverda RGS1000, what a headache that bike was.

The entire eighties was a time of change, and some great bikes came out, some were great, some were easily forgotten.

The bike I wanted the most back then was the VFR1000FII, turned out a fizzer, but looked great to me back then.

PS: red jacket, red helmet and red gloves; you were a happening frood back then Terry.

14 hours ago, Terry

Those are some lovely pictures Calculon.

I was lucky enough to own a CBX750F back in the day.

[image: Terry Honda CBX750F (1).jpg]

That is a great looking bike, Terry.  I would buy one of those today if it were available here.  And I agree with VFROZ, totally stylin' in your red attire.

I think that was the peak of my sartorial eloquence in the 80's, and it has all been downhill since...I did have a big run of red/white/black bikes (CBX400F, VF500F) bikes so it all made sense.

I spent a lot of those years chasing my best mate on a series of GPz900s and then the ZX-10 and ZZR1100, they were all great bikes, the 900 did like to get hot. 

I keep looking for an old not-too-molested CBX to buy and restore for laughs; these were basically the last new air-cooled in-line 4 that Honda made until the near current CB1100. 

[image: cbx750f.jpg]

I did ask the a good Kawasaki mechanic back then about the 900r running at 3/4 temperatures all the time, he stated that if the gauge showed 1/4 at the same temperature no one would worry about it. 

So I never worried about it again. 56,000 kilometers without any issues. 

skant153, 7/28/2019 at 12:22 PM

I've always heard that, even though the BMW is very refined and fill of features, they have reliably problems. A BMW car over 50k miles is a maintenance mess, I don't know what the number is for bikes but I'm betting a lot lower.

I like the vfr but I do a lot of 2 up on it and I'd like it in a 1200. I hate the riding position of the st but the position of the CBR is a back breaker. The vfr is a great middle ground.

That's absolutely not true about BMW bikes in my ownership experience.  The reason a lot of old BMW motorcycles are around is because they last a long time and the owner's love them.  I've owned two of them and rode the hell out of them just as I have three VFR's in almost all twisty riding (that's rough use) with no front end grip issues.  My experience with BMW front ends is that they stay planted better than VFR's.  My two BMW's were bullet proof, one being boxer engined, the other being an in-line four.  BMW has a much better warranty than Honda does.  With both of my BMW's, there was not a single repair needed.  In hanging out in the BMW shops, I observed that BMW's, where I live, are used harder than VFR's by more fanatical and competent riders than most Jap bike owners.  I did let the shop do scheduled valve adjustments because they do a real inspection of the whole bike while at it and found nothing in need of repair, ever.  I found BMW shops to be exponentially more competent than Japanese bike shops with their notorious incompetence.  I just did book PM as I do with VFR's.  I wish I had another BMW right now but don't have multiple bike syndrome enough to do it.  

I've also had a really nice BMW M Roadster.  I tracked it for fun (not racing) and it was bullet proof as well.  I had the intake improved, chip edited and left the exhaust alone as it was huge in stock form.  Once again, the only time it entered the shop was for oil and tire changes.  I let a stellar European shop do the oil changes, again, because they looked over the whole car and, once again, the car never required a single repair though it did eat tires due to track use.  That car saw redline every time it left the garage.

Other, non-M series BMW cars are disappointing from a cost/benefit point of view (3 series compared to say, a Camry or Accord) but, like Mercedes junk, some people will pay for perceived status which is their business.  I pay for genuine (not perceived) performance.  

It's much easier and more truthful for me to say that VFR's are more unreliable (electrical), except for the 8th gen., which is the best one yet based on owning a 5th, 6th, and now 8th gen., than a BMW motorcycle.  Not trying to be argumentive, just my real world experience, not hearsay.  Sorry to write a book but clarification was needed from a prior owner.          

2008 Triumph 1050 Sprint ST, only because I've ended up buying one.

It was a hard decision to trade in the 5G, but with 137,000kms on it and wanting a change, it was the only obvious choice without breaking the bank.

A fantastic chasis, same weight as the 5G, but with 123 horses and 77ft-lb of torque.

It has steeper steering geometry with shorter trail, it also places more weight on the front wheel, so it makes for faster steering and really good feed back from the front tyre.

I actually love the way it drops into a corner, it is so precise and quick, also easy to throw around, much better than my modified 5G.

Stock suspension is too soft, the back is OK sort off, but the front is way undersprung, and with progressive springs it makes sure it doesn't actually suit anything or anyone.

Who comes up with this crap?

The motor is fantastic, I haven't ridden a long stroke motor (compared to most offerings today) for a very long time. It has lots of grunt from down low and is deceptively fast.

People who say it sounds fantastic haven't ridden a 5G with open Staintune, the VFR wins hands down.

I just could not give up the single sided swingarm, a very underrated feature I think.

Sitting position is more relaxed than the VFR with better fairing protection.

Brakes are good without being outstanding, all Triumphs come with steel braided brake hoses, so might need different pads to get better bite.

Gearing is too tall, so will be changing to -1 front sprocket tomorrow.

Hard bags are a pleasure to have, and is something I was looking for on a replacement bike.

I can't stress enough how good this bike enters a corner and holds a line, I can't wait until I upgrade the suspension, wife is already pissed so might need to wait a while.

[image: IMG_7024.jpg]

Congratulations VFROZ. Great looking bike m8, 2008, wow looks like it just came out of the showroom, must be very low k's. Never hear owners complain about them, they love them. I'm sure you'll get many reliable, enjoyable k's from it. Wish they'd make a V4 version!!

Cheers :beer: :beer: :fing02:

54 minutes ago, Grum

Congratulations VFROZ. Great looking bike m8, 2008, wow looks like it just came out of the showroom, must be very low k's. Never hear owners complain about them quite the contrary they love them. I'm sure you'll get many reliable, enjoyable k's from it. Wish they'd make a V4 version!!

Cheers :beer: :beer: :fing02:

Thanks Grum, it was a hard decision to make. The VFR motor is the hardest to replace and I just couldn't go to an IL4.

It has 35,000kms on it and is stock except for the rear guard being removed and LED stop light and blinkers intergated into one, quite nifty the way it works.

Tip: always consult wife before making rash decisions.

1 hour ago, VFROZ

2008 Triumph 1050 Sprint ST, only because I've ended up buying one.

It was a hard decision to trade in the 5G, but with 137,000kms on it and wanting a change, it was the only obvious choice without breaking the bank.

A fantastic chasis, same weight as the 5G, but with 123 horses and 77ft-lb of torque.

It has steeper steering geometry with shorter trail, it also places more weight on the front wheel, so it makes for faster steering and really good feed back from the front tyre.

I actually love the way it drops into a corner, it is so precise and quick, also easy to throw around, much better than my modified 5G.

Stock suspension is too soft, the back is OK sort off, but the front is way undersprung, and with progressive springs it makes sure it doesn't actually suit anything or anyone.

Who comes up with this crap?

The motor is fantastic, I haven't ridden a long stroke motor (compared to most offerings today) for a very long time. It has lots of grunt from down low and is deceptively fast.

People who say it sounds fantastic haven't ridden a 5G with open Staintune, the VFR wins hands down.

I just could not give up the single sided swingarm, a very underrated feature I think.

Sitting position is more relaxed than the VFR with better fairing protection.

Brakes are good without being outstanding, all Triumphs come with steel braided brake hoses, so might need different pads to get better bite.

Gearing is too tall, so will be changing to -1 front sprocket tomorrow.

Hard bags are a pleasure to have, and is something I was looking for on a replacement bike.

I can't stress enough how good this bike enters a corner and holds a line, I can't wait until I upgrade the suspension, wife is already pissed so might need to wait a while.

[image: IMG_7024.jpg]

Congrat - nice looking bike 🙂 Too bad Triumph quit sports-touring bikes... appears as Honda have issues with disappearing markets...?

I’ve always like ST Sprint, looks and sounds wicked. Triple headlights and tailpipes. Nice!

15 hours ago, VFROZ

[...] wife is already pissed so might need to wait a while.

I hear you, brother!

Thank you for the write-up. May the new bike bring you many years of fun and adventure.

VFROZ, 1/31/2020 at 7:29 PM

2008 Triumph 1050 Sprint ST, only because I've ended up buying one.

It was a hard decision to trade in the 5G, but with 137,000kms on it and wanting a change, it was the only obvious choice without breaking the bank.

A fantastic chasis, same weight as the 5G, but with 123 horses and 77ft-lb of torque.

It has steeper steering geometry with shorter trail, it also places more weight on the front wheel, so it makes for faster steering and really good feed back from the front tyre.

I actually love the way it drops into a corner, it is so precise and quick, also easy to throw around, much better than my modified 5G.

Stock suspension is too soft, the back is OK sort off, but the front is way undersprung, and with progressive springs it makes sure it doesn't actually suit anything or anyone.

Who comes up with this crap?

The motor is fantastic, I haven't ridden a long stroke motor (compared to most offerings today) for a very long time. It has lots of grunt from down low and is deceptively fast.

People who say it sounds fantastic haven't ridden a 5G with open Staintune, the VFR wins hands down.

I just could not give up the single sided swingarm, a very underrated feature I think.

Sitting position is more relaxed than the VFR with better fairing protection.

Brakes are good without being outstanding, all Triumphs come with steel braided brake hoses, so might need different pads to get better bite.

Gearing is too tall, so will be changing to -1 front sprocket tomorrow.

Hard bags are a pleasure to have, and is something I was looking for on a replacement bike.

I can't stress enough how good this bike enters a corner and holds a line, I can't wait until I upgrade the suspension, wife is already pissed so might need to wait a while.

I've owned this bike for 3500km's now, so thought I would update my thoughts.

Even though the ST weighs the same as the VFR, it carries it's weight higher as the motor sits higher and more forward in the frame.

It's fine with me as I like more weight on the front, but I struggle riding up my steep driveway on the grass when my ute is parked there, as it spins the rear and I go up sideways no matter how hard I try to stop it, the VFR with the same tyres had no problem wet or dry.

It handles better than the VFR, but I found the VFR easier to throw around. This might change as I become one with the bike.

The suspension is soft, but now that I'm more used to it I can compensate for it.

You have to adopt a different style to the VFR to ride it fast, you need to rely on the torque and change gears less. You also need to be smoother due to the soft suspension, note that my VFR was far from stock in this department.

It is more sensitive to correct chain adjustment, the VFR I used to run loser than needed, while the ST needs to be spot on to get the smoothest ride out of it.

Fuel economy (not that I normally worry about this) is a lot better than the VFR, surprisingly so considering it's bigger displacement and available grunt.

Loaded up with the paniers and tank bag full and riding fast I still managed around 425km to the tank when being somewhat sedate, and 325km when going hard on tight roads. Tank is 20L same as the VFR.

The ST's motor is more or less useless under 3500rpm, so in comparison about the same as the VFR being useless under 4500rpm when you take in red line differences (this will depend on weather you're a lady or a man :-).

And how good is it having a normal radiator in the right place? You don't even have to look at the temp gauge, slow moving traffic, stopped, in the heat, it doesn't matter, at 103°C the fan starts and temp drops, no fuss.

Did I mention I miss the sound of the VFR?

The ST is a lot more comfortable than the VFR on long stints, but I find it harder to man handle in the parking lot let alone on the side of the road (I'm a short arse and can only put down one foot at the time while sitting on it).

I love the integrated hard bags and trip computer.

The free TuneEcu program available to all Triumphs is fantastic to use, I've even managed to change the way my speedo reads to compensate for the -1 tooth front sprocket I've installed. You can also change fuel mapping, ignition timing, rev limiter, fan on/off temp, AFR, you can also test equipment by switching everything on/off and get real time readings of everything including individual cylinder vaccum to adjust throttle boddies. How good is that? I mean it, how good is that?

Chain driven cams suck!!! Seriously (6th/8th geners will never know).

Did I mention VFR sound?, Oh I did.

How good is the rear wheel for everyone to see?

[image: IMG_E7188.JPG]

When I posted last time I forgot that I'd done a test ride on a BMW F800GT, I think maybe a 2014 or 2015, 2-3 summers ago.  Nice enough bike, and very similar to my VFR in terms of ergonomics and even most OEM equipment.  Sits a bit more upright, which is something that interests me in my next bike.  Overall it's a very nice bike, and being belt-driven will require a bit less maintenance.  But the parallel twin engine wasn't great.  It lacks the torque of our V4s, which I could live with, though I'm not crazy about the idea of having to wring a bike out every time I want to pass someone.  The worst part though was the bike just felt wheezy, if that makes sense.  There are some low mileage examples of this bike for sale, and while I still like it, I just remember being unimpressed with the engine.  Also, it's too close to my VFR.  When I finally replace my VFR, I'm going to want something different, not very similar to the bike I've owned since 2006.  A local dealer has a super low mileage 2016 with luggage in stock, and the price is fair, but I'm not really interested.

So, that brings me to the next one.  I test rode a still-new 2019 BMW F750GS last weekend.  It's a bike I've looked at a few times to potentially replace my VFR.  Most of the new bikes are loaded, and some are even decently affordable.  Still, I've never really liked adventure bikes.  But the F750GS is really more of a street bike with adventure bike styling.  Again, not really my cup of tea, but I do like the ergonomics, which are decidedly more relaxed than my VFR.  I was really curious about the engine.  It's basically a retuned version of the parallel twin in the F800GT I tested out a couple years ago.  I know the hp and torque numbers are better, but how would it actually perform?  I was pleasantly surprised by how quick it was.  Not to say fast, but definitely better than the bike above.  The other thing that surprised me was the wind blast in my chest.  The bike's stock flyscreen does very little to block wind.  I'd go with a bit larger screen if I bought the bike.  I was only on the bike for maybe 10-15 minutes, but it handled pretty well, feels lighter than it is, is much more flickable than my VFR, and I even managed to try to electronic cruise control and it worked great.  (This is something I'd like to have on my next bike, for those long days on straight, boring roads.)  Also, one thing you can't really tell just while sitting on the bike is how much higher up you'll feel once you're moving.  It's like the difference between riding in a normal passenger car and a small SUV.  I'm still unsure whether I'd buy this bike, but I did like it.

14 minutes ago, TimC

When I posted last time I forgot that I'd done a test ride on a BMW F800GT, I think maybe a 2014 or 2015, 2-3 summers ago.

So, that brings me to the next one.  I test rode a still-new 2019 BMW F750GS last weekend.  Also, one thing you can't really tell just while sitting on the bike is how much higher up you'll feel once you're moving.  It's like the difference between riding in a normal passenger car and a small SUV.  I'm still unsure whether I'd buy this bike, but I did like it.

I rented a BMW F800GT a few years ago.  I've always liked the idea of the bike but all the reviews written were much like your experience, lackluster engine.  My experience was completely different, at the time my main ride was a Ninja 650 so that may have something to do with it.  I thought the motor was fun, had no problems letting it rip and found that it was really comfortable and stable at very high speeds (a few tests in some sparsely populated places).  The two things I found very peculiar about bike were the fuel gauge which only measures the bottom half of the tank and the ergonomics which were the exact opposite of my Ninja.  On my Ninja the bars are upright and the pegs are high and back and the F800GT the pegs are more neutral but the bars are more sporty, lower.

[image: 26lastday_zpspstotzgh.jpg]

On the Lake Duffy Loop in British Columbia.

Currently I also have a Versys 650 besides my VFR.  It makes a bit less power than the BMW F750GS but the ergonomics are really similar.  I use it mainly on my long, multi-day rides and for commuting/running errands.  It's a fantastic bike, agile and efficient but it's not as much fun to ride as the Interceptor.  I don't know if it's the tallish seat, lesser power, it's really hard to say because it's such a great all around bike.  Have you looked at either the Tracer 800 GT or the Versys 1000?

Is the gearbox any better than the 2016 bikes?

A box full of neutrals when the gear lever will select something .... the motor heats up really quickly in traffic in the summer 

The CanBus system is a f**king pain when a bulb blows out in the boonies 

11 hours ago, Calculon

Have you looked at either the Tracer 800 GT or the Versys 1000?

I have looked at the Tracer, which I like a lot, but I have short legs for my height.  Any bike with a seat much higher than the Sargent on my VFR is just about a deal-breaker, especially if I have to get my right leg and foot over a rear seat even taller than mine.  Unfortunately, that keeps several bikes I like off my shopping list.  (I'm looking at you, Aprilia Tuono V4.)  I've considered a lowered bike, but I'd just rather not go that route.

10 hours ago, TimC

I have looked at the Tracer, which I like a lot, but I have short legs for my height.  Any bike with a seat much higher than the Sargent on my VFR is just about a deal-breaker, especially if I have to get my right leg and foot over a rear seat even taller than mine.  Unfortunately, that keeps several bikes I like off my shopping list.  (I'm looking at you, Aprilia Tuono V4.)  I've considered a lowered bike, but I'd just rather not go that route.

I've been thinking about consolidating down to one bike, giving up my VFR and Versys and there are two bikes that keep jumping to the front.  A BMW R1200R (maybe the RS variant) or the Ninja 1000.  I can manage the height of my Versys but I think I would prefer a less tall bike too.  I have taken the R1200R and RS for extended test rides and liked both a great deal.  Thought the R was more comfortable and handled better.  I've never had the chance to test a Ninja 1000 but sat on quite a few in showrooms and the ergos seem quite okay.  I mention these because they are more similar to the VFR in regards to seat height plus they are both great all around road bikes.

4 hours ago, Calculon

I've been thinking about consolidating down to one bike, giving up my VFR and Versys and there are two bikes that keep jumping to the front.  A BMW R1200R (maybe the RS variant) or the Ninja 1000.  I can manage the height of my Versys but I think I would prefer a less tall bike too.  I have taken the R1200R and RS for extended test rides and liked both a great deal.  Thought the R was more comfortable and handled better.  I've never had the chance to test a Ninja 1000 but sat on quite a few in showrooms and the ergos seem quite okay.  I mention these because they are more similar to the VFR in regards to seat height plus they are both great all around road bikes.

The BMW R1200R is one of my dream bikes.  I thought when the RS debuted it would be perfect - like an R but with more wind and weather protection.  Your quick review on the handling of both is what I've read a few times by riders and reviewers.  These days, I'd rather go with a bike that's just not as large in front of me, and the RS seems huge when I'm next to it or sitting on it.  Bigger than my VFR, really.

I almost bought a nicely equipped 2016 R12R a few months ago, and really wish I had.  It was a good deal and BMW was offering low financing then.  I'm still made at myself for not buying that bike.  As it is, I'm still shopping, but unsure I'll buy anything soon.  For one thing, the economy and uncertainty for my long-term job prospects, but for another, I can't really go out of state to buy a bike and ride it back right now, and I'm not keen on buying a used bike (even from a dealer) sight unseen.

I've looked at the Ninja 1000 a few times, and everything seems to indicate it's a great bike, but it just doesn't speak to me I guess.

The Ninja 1000 has some nice refinements for the 2020 model, it will be hard to pass up new leftovers w/Kawi discounts next year, assuming slow market this year with coronavirus. They're on my watchlist...  :lurk:

Does anyone have any experience on the current Ducati Supersport, either the standard or "S" model?  There's a like-new "S" for sale at a nearby shop, and the price is reasonable.  Ergonomics seem somewhat similar to my stock 6th gen, but maybe 5-10% sportier, if that makes sense.  I've been looking to eventually replace my VFR with a bike with more relaxed ergonomics, but this Supersport S (in red) is just dead sexy, and I'd kind of like to own an Italian sportbike for a couple years before I'm too old and creaky to ride one.

I've ridden one a few times. I was really close to buying one this year because they're like a VFR but lighter and with better suspension. I didn't pull the trigger because I couldn't stomach the maintenance costs at this time. 😞

19 hours ago, lazyeye

I've ridden one a few times. I was really close to buying one this year because they're like a VFR but lighter and with better suspension. I didn't pull the trigger because I couldn't stomach the maintenance costs at this time. 😞

Maintenance costs concern me, as does the limited dealer network.  I live in NE Ohio, and the closest Ducati dealers are a couple hours from here.   And I don't have a trailer if I needed to haul a non-running bike.  Still, it's a newer bike, and I've heard Ducs are more reliable than they used to be.

The other big factor for me is insurance cost.  My VFR is pretty cheap now, about $10 per month for full coverage.  A 2018 Supersport S is more like $30 per month.  Not a deal-breaker, but more than I want to pay.

One other factor is the OEM luggage, which isn't ideal.  The bags aren't waterproof hardbags like the VFR's (other Ninja 1000, etc.), and the naked racks don't look very good.  But I'm sure I could live with it for a couple years, especially since I don't do as much touring as I did years ago.

I forgot to post a test ride report about another bike here.  About a month ago I took a still-new 2019 BMW F750GS for a spin.  The test ride was only 10-15 minutes, and I was pleasantly surprised how much I liked the bike.

I've looked at these a couple times before, as I like the style and the ergonomics of the bike, and they aren't too expensive (at least for a BMW).  I wasn't too keen on adventure-style bikes for years, but the looks of a few models have grown on me, including this bike.  I wasn't sure how I'd like the engine though, since it's based on the same 800cc parallel twin as the F800GT, which (as I'd written earlier) had disappointed me during a test ride a few years ago.  I was told by a salesman it was quicker now, but I had to find out for myself.  I'm happy to report it is indeed a more lively mill now.  Acceleration was pretty brisk, and it felt like there was more torque than the earlier bike.  Part of it could be weight, too, as I'm sure this adventure-styled bike weighs a bit less than its GT counterpart.  It also didn't seem as wheezy as the GT I'd ridden, which I think was a 2014 or 2015.

This 2019 bike was loaded with all the tech features most new Beemers have - ESA, ASC, electronic cruise control, etc.  I was curious to try the cruise control, and it works well.  This is something I've love to have for longer rides and tours.  I couldn't figure out how to get the bike into different riding modes during my short time with it, nor how to adjust the suspension.  I'm a big guy, so I'd likely be looking at least at new fork springs if I bought this bike, or just about any new or used bike for that matter.  (My VFR's suspension has been modded for my weight.)

The bike's handling was good, even with the standard suspension.  Because you sit more upright, there's less weight on the front wheel, which means quicker turn-in, but I would worry a little about whether there's enough weight for me to feel comfortable cornering hard on this thing.  Also, the tires are a bit skinnier, which would make me wonder about cornering grip at both ends.  I'm sure it's fine, and I don't even approach my VFR's limits most of the time, but I'd want to gingerly find out how hard the F750GS can be pushed in the corners.

A few things surprised me about the bike:  how quick it was, how much 'taller' it felt, and how much wind blast I felt in my chest.  Almost immediately, I could feel so much more wind hitting me in the chest than I've ever felt on my VFR.  And this was only at 40-50 mph, not freeway speeds.  The bike has a small flyscreen, but I'd replace that with something a bit taller and wider, probably in the first couple weeks I had the bike.  Because it was a warm enough day, and because it was just a test ride, the wind blast didn't bother me much, it just surprised me.  But I'd really worry about colder days.  I already wear an extra layer or two for colder rides, and that's *with* wind protection on my VFR with its stock windshield.  On a colder day, with temps below 50, I'd be hesitant to even take the bike out.

I was glad for the opportunity to ride the F750GS.  It's a pretty nice machine, with most of the features and amenities you'd expect for a bike in its segment, and especially for a BMW.  Also, it's still a bike I'm considering for my VFR's eventual replacement.

This past Friday I test rode a 2018 BMW R1200RT, like new, and loaded, with just 7,000 miles on it.  The local BMW dealer has it marked down to $15,995.  I've never really wanted a touring bike, especially as my only bike and all-arounder.  But I've been riding some really long days this summer, and it would be nice to have something more comfortable for trips, but which is still capable of carving corners.  I figured I owed it to myself to check out a touring machine.  Also, it was my birthday, so this was kind of a treat to myself.

Likes:  Comfortable.  Good wind protection, but you can still feel some wind with the windshield in the down position.  (It's electronically adjustable, even on the fly.)  Different riding modes, including different suspension settings for single rider, rider/pillion, with, and without luggage.  This one has a radio installed, including speakers, but I didn't even turn it on.  The bike handles well.  I chucked it into a couple corners during my brief ride, and it did just what I asked.  It felt like it would hold a line nicely, and it actually felt more easily flickable than my VFR.  The bike also looks great, and it's neat the hard bags look more integrated to the bike instead of added-on (like my VFR's OEM bags do).  This one has a rear luggage rack but doesn't include a top box.

Dislikes:  Feels heavy just getting it off the sidestand.  Also feels heavy off the line.  I almost didn't give it enough gas a couple times.  Not being familiar with this bike, I was pretty mellow with the throttle to get it moving, and really a little too soft.  The bike will move for sure, but you do need to give it more gas than a 6th gen VFR.  The engine is good, pulls well, but just feels kind of weird to me.  But that's me.  I'm so used to my Honda's V4 anything else is going to feel strange.  The gauges are a mix of analog and digital, with the speedometer and tachometer in big, easy to read dials.  But the digital display was hard to read in regular sunlight.  I'm sure you get used to it, but I thought it was pretty tough to see.  And finally, price.  While $16K isn't bad for a very low mileage 2018 BMW tourer, it's more than I want to spend.

I liked this bike just okay.  I'm sure if I was riding hundreds of miles every weekend, like I have been for the last several weekends, and doing a couple big tours every season, I would love this bike.  And it's tempting just because it's both comfortable and capable.  Plus it should be terrifically reliable.  But I won't always be riding this much, and I haven't toured much the last few years.  (Hopefully that will change soon.)  My wife and our younger son have been in Florida for a couple months, helping my parents as they've had some health issues.  (You could say I should be the one down there, but her job is more easily performed telecommuting than mine, she loves beaches, and she's good at dealing with my mom and dad.  I would have gone crazy by now!)  Also, it's worth noting I'm a musician on the side, and usually very busy with rehearsals and gigs most weeks and weekends.  But everything music-related for me has been canceled due to the virus.  So with my wife out-of-town and my schedule freed up (other than during the work week), I've had tons of time to ride, and I've ridden a lot.  But that won't usually be the norm, which is why I'd be reluctant to buy this bike, even if it were $2-3K cheaper.  But it was definitely worth a try.  I can see myself buying a bike like this someday, but probably not right now.

Switching over to a more touring oriented bike does change your bike usage. I was quite happy to ride my VFR for 1-2 hours and feel like I was using it as intended, but my more touring bikes really feel like they deserve to be used for 3+ hours at a time. That changes what you plan on doing, I now look on a full day of riding as the norm (when time allows) but that is really satisfying on the right machine. I started on a 1990 ST1100 (bought as a restoration project, not necessarily because I wanted one) but ended up riding that on a 10 day tour and lving every day of it. I replaced that with a 2009 ST1300 which is not quite as calm to ride as the ST1100 but nearly as good at the twisty stuff as a VFR and is all-day comfy with incredible tank range and locomotive stability on bumpy bends. Horses for courses I guess. 

1 hour ago, Terry

Switching over to a more touring oriented bike does change your bike usage. I was quite happy to ride my VFR for 1-2 hours and feel like I was using it as intended, but my more touring bikes really feel like they deserve to be used for 3+ hours at a time. That changes what you plan on doing, I now look on a full day of riding as the norm (when time allows) but that is really satisfying on the right machine. I started on a 1990 ST1100 (bought as a restoration project, not necessarily because I wanted one) but ended up riding that on a 10 day tour and lving every day of it. I replaced that with a 2009 ST1300 which is not quite as calm to ride as the ST1100 but nearly as good at the twisty stuff as a VFR and is all-day comfy with incredible tank range and locomotive stability on bumpy bends. Horses for courses I guess. 

Thanks for posting that.  Makes a lot of sense.  One nice thing about the VFR for me has been its all-arounder usefulness as a commuter, fun bike for twisties, and a capable tourer.  But as I've gotten older it's harder to do long days on the VFR.

I'm glad you brought up the Honda ST.  I might start looking for one to replace my VFR.  I've not ridden one, but for some reason I don't seem to remember them being quite as large as a BMW RT.  A nice bonus that the ST is also a V4!  🙂 

@TimC

I'v sat on the SS but haven't taken it out, the ergos seemed very similar to the VFR, but given everything I'd opt to stay with the VFR for that style of bike.

I do have a 2016 Multistrada and it is generally a great bike, loads of torque and great for touring, two-up and bags. I use it for commuting, day rides and two up frequently. It's a blast to ride but I have had some issues with leaking fork seals twice at under 6K miles each time, the typical fuel sensor failure that seems to be common to Ducati and my biggest complaint is the wind buffeting. A few fixes have calmed it down but it's no where near the VFR for quiet or smoothness. I got an extended transferable warranty with mine, runs out at the end of this year, but I probably wouldn't buy a Ducati without the longest warranty you can negotiate. Despite all that, like the BMW, electronic suspension, adjustable riding modes and HP, adjustable traction control, wheelie control and ABS add some nice options. It's barely 525lbs wet weight and has about 135+ rwhp. Valve maintenance is at 18K but will run about $1500 for the major maintenance, with the variable valve timing I don't trust to do it myself even though I've always done my Hondas.

A few local dealers have the newer 1260 2019 touring S models for $17K or $18K with bags, better electronics and more stable handling. You can find lower mileage 1200, '15-'17, models for $11K-$12K or so. The V4 Multistrada is due out at the end of this year, I'm holding out to see how they are received and if pricing is anything short of reasonable.

I looked at some STs before getting the Ducati, I can see having an ST or FJR in the near future. Just some other considerations. But, the wife wanted me to have a sexy Italian bike before I got too old too.  :wink:

1 hour ago, TimC

Thanks for posting that.  Makes a lot of sense.  One nice thing about the VFR for me has been its all-arounder usefulness as a commuter, fun bike for twisties, and a capable tourer.  But as I've gotten older it's harder to do long days on the VFR.

I'm glad you brought up the Honda ST.  I might start looking for one to replace my VFR.  I've not ridden one, but for some reason I don't seem to remember them being quite as large as a BMW RT.  A nice bonus that the ST is also a V4!  🙂 

Trust me, she's a big old girl. I scoff at people who talk about the 800 as being top-heavy! The good thing about the 1300 is that once you are above walking speed, it actually has fantastic balance; it is heavy but the weight is carried low and central and it has docile manners. I have an adjustable length Nitron shock and have wound that out for some more ground clearance to stop the pegs and centrestand from decking so often, but that also makes it a bit taller to sit on and (more importantly) to heave back off the sidestand. I'm not tall but manage fine (5'7"). The 1300 has a very decent chassis and with modified suspension it doesn't get left behind by other bikes. And you won't need to visit your chiropractor after each ride. https://youtu.be/-Cms0bkNj7A

I've thought about other adventure style bikes, but my problem is having short legs for my height.  I'm 5'8", but with a long torso and short legs.  Once I'm on the bike I'm generally okay, even stopping at lights, etc.  The issue is getting on the bike in the first place, specifically getting my right leg over the rear seat.  Some bikes are okay, like my VFR and many other street bikes.  But many adventure bikes, especially the Duc Multistrada, are brutal.  That's one reason I haven't looked more at that style of bike, even though a regular GS is starting to appeal to me.  Not a new one though.  Good Lord, those things are expensive!!

8 hours ago, TimC

I've thought about other adventure style bikes, but my problem is having short legs for my height.  I'm 5'8", but with a long torso and short legs.  Once I'm on the bike I'm generally okay, even stopping at lights, etc.  The issue is getting on the bike in the first place, specifically getting my right leg over the rear seat.  Some bikes are okay, like my VFR and many other street bikes.  But many adventure bikes, especially the Duc Multistrada, are brutal.  That's one reason I haven't looked more at that style of bike, even though a regular GS is starting to appeal to me.  Not a new one though.  Good Lord, those things are expensive!!

For whatever it's worth if you liked the RT but thought it was a bit bulky take a look at the R or RS.  Personally I like the R just a bit more, sure it's a roadster but you add a windscreen, integrated OEM luggage and maybe some hand guards and you have a three season tourer that is light and flickable with the same great motor as the RT.

28 minutes ago, Calculon

For whatever it's worth if you liked the RT but thought it was a bit bulky take a look at the R or RS.  Personally I like the R just a bit more, sure it's a roadster but you add a windscreen, integrated OEM luggage and maybe some hand guards and you have a three season tourer that is light and flickable with the same great motor as the RT.

Your suggestion is spot-on.  The R1200R has been one of my dream bikes for years.  I've also considered the RS for more wind and weather protection, but everything I've read says the R handles a little better, plus I'd like to sit a little more upright.  I almost bought a used R in January, and really should have.  It was a terrific bike, with low miles, OEM bags, new tires, and Arrow exhaust at a good price and a great finance rate.  Sadly, I let it go and I haven't seen that deal's equal again.  I very rarely regret missing out on a vehicle purchase, because there are tons of good cars and bikes out there, and I'm never buying something rare.  But this one I seriously wish I'd bought 6 months ago.  It's the one that got away.

Right now I have a deal worked out with a Cleveland area dealer on a new leftover F750GS.  The price is good, the finance rate is good, and I have some money to put down.  I'm just trying to decide if this is the bike for me.  I think it would a terrific all-arounder to replace my VFR, and I'm sure I would get many years of enjoyment out of it, but the bike just doesn't excite me.  I really like the ergonomics on this bike, and since I've test ridden one I know it's very easy to ride.  I just don't know whether to go for it now, or wait and keep shopping for something else.

Was curious about what's out there for Honda STs right now, and while searching online last night I unbelievably found a still *new* 2012 ST1300 ABS for sale at a dealer shop in PA.  It's not uncommon to find 2-3 year old leftover bikes sitting in dealer inventories, but 8 years old?!  It's listed at $15K.  Maybe they never considered taking a decent lower offer on the bike.  Wow.

1 hour ago, TimC

Was curious about what's out there for Honda STs right now, and while searching online last night I unbelievably found a still *new* 2012 ST1300 ABS for sale at a dealer shop in PA.  It's not uncommon to find 2-3 year old leftover bikes sitting in dealer inventories, but 8 years old?!  It's listed at $15K.  Maybe they never considered taking a decent lower offer on the bike.  Wow.

They will sit on that ST for a long time. I too find ST on paper a touring rig, comfort is draws me to consider as a future bike. We are not getting any younger, you know. 
However, at that price, a new style Goldwing can be found for $16K. I guess f you are looking at 700lbs bikes, why not go all the way and consider the king of touring 🤪

Warning:  Lengthly non-VFR post ahead.  I'm shopping for a bike to replace my beloved VFR, and it's really hard.

Today I test rode a 2012 BMW R1200R for sale in my area.  While I rode a newer R1200RT recently, I'd not ridden an older R bike for many years.  It's always a weird sensation to twist the throttle and have the bike jerk to the right.  I'm sure I'd get used to it though.  It's also odd sitting almost straight up.  The bike is nice overall, and fit and finish is excellent.  But the R12R's engine is the star of the show.  Smooth but with some character, a good amount of torque but maybe not as much as my VFR, but it also cruises down a city street more easily.  This is a bike you don't have to shift much, kind of like our VFRs.  A couple of minor gripes:  The idle speed seemed low to me.  Like, really low.  I don't know if that's normal on a boxer twin, or if the owner just has it set low.  The transmission is clunky getting down into 1st from neutral.  Sometimes you really have to stomp on it, which is a little unsettling.  Maybe it would break in more over time and miles, as this bike still has less than 7,000 miles on it.  Also, I hate the old style BMW turn signal switchgear!  Again, I'm sure I'd get used to it, but I found myself having to look down to find the turn signal and cancel buttons.  A couple times I hit the horn instead of the button I was trying to press.

The bike rode great and I love the low-speed handling and maneuverability of this model.  I've looked at these before and it's been one of my dream bikes for probably a decade.  But in the last couple years I've considered whether to buy an older air/oil-cooled "camhead" (2011-2014) boxer like this one, or to buy the newer water cooled version, with USD fork, advanced electronics, etc.  I like that this bike is more analog, and while it would be nice to have all the latest rider aids with a newer bike, the more complicated they are, the more can go wrong with them.  I think that's why the older R bikes still appeal to me.

This particular bike is a two-owner machine, bone stock, with 6,700 miles.  The owner had the 6K service done last year.  Also, he bought the bike three years ago from the original owner, with about 3K on it, and has put about 1,000 miles per year on it himself.  Looks like original tires, with the rear nicely squared off.  The bike has four must-haves for me:  ABS, ASC, factory heated grips, and a centerstand.  But it doesn't have three of my wants:  OEM hard bags, rear luggage rack, and cylinder head covers (or bars).  I'd also like to have an aftermarket exhaust, but it's rare on these R bikes.  Also, this bike has the BMW 'comfort saddle,' which I hate.  It is comfortable, for sure, but it's also a complete "U" shape that locks you in place your entire ride.  I need to be able to move fore and aft during long rides, even if the seat isn't as cushy.  I'd replace the seat with either a different OEM model or a Sargent or Wunderlich.

So here's the problem.  I can get this bike for $7,000 (US).  And I think that's a fair price given its mileage and overall great condition (not perfect cosmetically, but very good and still mechanically sound).  But once I start adding what I'll need (luggage, rack, cylinder head protectors), swap out the seat, and buy a taller windscreen for trips, the overall cost will approach $10,000.  I also have to worry about whether the mods I might want to add later are going to be available.  2014 was the last year for this generation of this model.  2015 was a whole new bike, and most farkles will not cross those two generations.  For $10K I can buy a 4-5 year newer bike with similar that includes the luggage and rack, plus a better seat.  I enjoyed modding my VFR the first 4-5 years I owned it, and I'd be happy to do that with another bone stock machine, but we're talking a couple thousand dollars just to get the bike into a tour-able state.  I'm sure I'd love this bike after it was modded to my liking, and probably for many years to come.  It has all the basics I want, but needs a lot more to equal my VFR.

Even after a short test ride it was strange getting back on my VFR.  You don't realize how much we lean forward until you ride something where you're bolt upright.  I'm pretty sure I'll end up with an R bike at some point, but I just don't know which one or which generation.

You might look at The FJR 1300 Yamaha . Lots of good stuff with them after 2012 and really all that is needed is maybe a seat . They have a great motor .

Tiutis, 7/7/2020 at 8:52 AM

They will sit on that ST for a long time. I too find ST on paper a touring rig, comfort is draws me to consider as a future bike. We are not getting any younger, you know. 
However, at that price, a new style Goldwing can be found for $16K. I guess f you are looking at 700lbs bikes, why not go all the way and consider the king of touring 🤪

An ST can get right down the road.  They are no slouch in the corners with a skilled pilot.  That is a lot of scratch for an 8 year old unit. 

Or look at a 2017 or later Ninja 1000. Lightweight, integrated bags, gobs of power and much easier on the wallet. 

14 hours ago, Calculon

Or look at a 2017 or later Ninja 1000. Lightweight, integrated bags, gobs of power and much easier on the wallet. 

I've looked at the Ninja 1000 but haven't taken one for a test ride yet.  For some reason I'm just not drawn to it, ya know?  I test ride might change my mind.  😉 

14 minutes ago, TimC

I've looked at the Ninja 1000 but haven't taken one for a test ride yet.  For some reason I'm just not drawn to it, ya know?  I test ride might change my mind.  😉 

The bike has been updated frequently since it's inception.  The last two generations are so much nicer than the previous.  I've never taken one out for a test ride either but sat on a few and they seemed to have become more neutral in ergonomics over time.  Yeah, the look is typical Japanese style origami with all the folds and hyper stylization.

17 hours ago, Calculon

Or look at a 2017 or later Ninja 1000. Lightweight, integrated bags, gobs of power and much easier on the wallet. 

I think there are a lot of former VFR owners riding Ninja 1000s, as the N1K occupies that same mid-sized, sports-touring niche.

The big upsides of the N1K:

• Notably more torque/power riding on comparable weight
• IMU-based cornering ABS/TC (2017 and later)
• Ride-by-wire and integrated cruise control (2020)

The big downsides are:

• Somewhat buzzy inline 4
• No center-stand
• Insurance can be pricey
• Not nearly as lovely as the 8th gen 

I would be super interested to hear from any VFR owners who have spent time on a 2017+ N1K.

I just posted my purchase story and review of the new BMW R nineT Pure I bought this weekend.  But in addition to that, I test rode a 2016 BMW R1200R, the first time I'd ridden the the water cooled version of that bike.

The R1200R is, IMO, BMW's best version of the boxer twin.  The engine is smooth but still has character.  It's not light but carries its weight down low.  The tubular handlebar gives you an upright seating position and makes the bike comfortable to ride, but also makes the bike quite flickable.  The water cooled bikes have much longer service intervals than the air/oil cooled bikes.  With about 125 hp, this bike isn't lacking for power, especially for solo riding.  And most of the R1200R bikes (and RS trim bikes with the windshield and fairings) are loaded, and include ASC, ESA, TPM, quick-shifter, riding modes, trip computer, etc.  Many used ones even include the OEM hardbags and/or topbox.  The bike I rode didn't have the bags, but otherwise had all the options, including GPS prep (but not the actual Navigator unit).  It was really nice, and I'm sure would make a terrific all-arounder.  I'm a little surprised myself I didn't buy it.

In the end, I had my heart set on the other bike, but I'm sure I'd love the R1200R, and who knows, maybe I'll still eventually buy one.  😉 

R12R or R12RS would be my picks from their lineup. 

So I've been riding a 2017 Ducati Supersport since my 2014 VFR has been back and forth to the shop most of the summer with a weird power loss issue. Gotta say its a good bike that could be fantastic if they'd done a few things better.

Cons

-The transmission is awful. First year SSs suffer from a difficult to shift into 1st and 2nd problem. There's supposed to be a fix available from the dealer but I'm too busy riding...

-The throttle response is jerky

-The chain, battery, and brakes pads it comes with are cheap

-If you install bar risers it makes the horn button hit the tank every time you go full lock when maneuvering

-I have to buy a bunch of new tools because its different

-Official accessories are expensive

Pro

-The engine is amazing. Gets up and goes. Lots of torque

-Reasonably comfortable for sport touring

-100lbs lighter than the VFR

-The "ride modes" are somewhat useful, TC and ABS aren't instrusive

-Looks really good, people ask about it

8 hours ago, lazyeye

So I've been riding a 2017 Ducati Supersport since my 2014 VFR has been back and forth to the shop most of the summer with a weird power loss issue. Gotta say its a good bike that could be fantastic if they'd done a few things better.

Nice write-up.  That's very similar to everything I've read on this bike.  The BMW dealer in Cleveland has had a like new 2018 Supersport S on hand for months, maybe going on a year.  I was seriously interested in it, but the day I went to test ride it, the salesman told me there was an issue with the fuel sensor and a warning light.  They'd been in touch with a fellow BMW dealer in Columbus which also sells Ducatis, trying to fix it, or see if warranty would cover it if someone were to buy the bike.  I didn't even bother to test ride it.  :sad:

3 hours ago, TimC

Nice write-up.  That's very similar to everything I've read on this bike.  The BMW dealer in Cleveland has had a like new 2018 Supersport S on hand for months, maybe going on a year.  I was seriously interested in it, but the day I went to test ride it, the salesman told me there was an issue with the fuel sensor and a warning light.  They'd been in touch with a fellow BMW dealer in Columbus which also sells Ducatis, trying to fix it, or see if warranty would cover it if someone were to buy the bike.  I didn't even bother to test ride it.  :sad:

Italian "Character" 😉
I test rode a 2019 S model during a demo day event and everything (besides the hot engine on my legs) that I listed as a "con" wasn't there. So its as though they worked out the kinks in their manufacturing after a few thousand built. Mine was a leftover model that was purchased in 2019. Then the owner realized he couldn't ride sport bikes anymore and sold it to me.

40 minutes ago, lazyeye

Italian "Character" 😉
I test rode a 2019 S model during a demo day event and everything (besides the hot engine on my legs) that I listed as a "con" wasn't there. So its as though they worked out the kinks in their manufacturing after a few thousand built. Mine was a leftover model that was purchased in 2019. Then the owner realized he couldn't ride sport bikes anymore and sold it to me.

I was pretty serious about the test ride and possible purchase of that S up in Cleveland a couple months ago.  I thought this might be my last chance to buy and regularly ride a sexy Italian sporty bike.  Being 51 now and seriously overweight (but hoping to shake some pounds soon), it was now or never.  I guess it'll be never.  Oh well.  I can still admire them from afar and maybe drool over them in person once in a while!  😄

I follow a Supersport page, because I‘m a previous’96 SS owner and thought it could be a possible VFR garage mate. But, they’d need to iron out every single issue and add cruise control. The current product just isn’t compelling enough for me to take a chance.

Traded my 7th gen for a Multistrada 1200S three years ago. I received some criticism (even on VFRD!) concerning the Ducati reputation for unreliability, but almost 20K miles later it just starts and runs, very happy with it. As you mention TimC the fuel sensor is a "known issue" I was told, and the dealer fixed it even though the warranty had expired. Two minor recalls, coolant hoses and brake master cylinder.

Great engine, the VVT is not intrusive (I owned a 6th gen for eight years, I know intrusive, although it didn't bother me much), and modern electronics, especially engine power modes, dynamic suspension, lean-sensitive ABS, etc., really work. Did a 9 day/3000 mile trip CA-NV-AZ-CO with no issues.

For me, with OEM luggage it is my sport tourer. Yeah, the ADV styling is silly, but I do like the looks and anyway, its red. And 7 inches of suspension travel is great on crumby back roads!

Glad to hear you've had good experiences with your Multistrada, Stephen!  I get what you said.  My understanding is the newer Ducatis are more reliable, so the horror stories we've all heard don't necessarily apply.  Also, even though I've never loved the adventure style bikes, I did consider both a BMW F750GS and even an R1200GS, though it would have had to have been factory lowered due to my very short legs.

I'd have been tempted to buy that Supersport S if the BMW dealer up north had been more interested in selling it.  Instead they tried to steer me toward a couple other bikes.  I wasn't happy the nearest Duc dealer was 100-120 miles away, and I don't have a trailer if I had to haul the bike to a dealer for some issue, but I was willing to take a chance.  Like I said, oh well.

2 hours ago, TimC

Glad to hear you've had good experiences with your Multistrada, Stephen!  I get what you said.  My understanding is the newer Ducatis are more reliable, so the horror stories we've all heard don't necessarily apply.  Also, even though I've never loved the adventure style bikes, I did consider both a BMW F750GS and even an R1200GS, though it would have had to have been factory lowered due to my very short legs.

I'd have been tempted to buy that Supersport S if the BMW dealer up north had been more interested in selling it.  Instead they tried to steer me toward a couple other bikes.  I wasn't happy the nearest Duc dealer was 100-120 miles away, and I don't have a trailer if I had to haul the bike to a dealer for some issue, but I was willing to take a chance.  Like I said, oh well.

Good point about Ducati dealers. Mine is only 25 minutes south of me in San Rafael, but I believe that the next dealer north is in Portland!

And wow, they do charge a premium! There is just this assumption that if you buy a Ducati you are filthy rich or willing to spend the rent on bike, service and accessories. Quoted me 50% more for a set of tires out the door compared to my independent guy down the street, for example. 

I'm sure you will be very happy with the boxer BMW. Five years ago I spent two weeks riding an R1200RT, one of the first liquid cooled boxers, and was very impressed, just a little too much on the touring side of sport touring. I looked at the BMW RS, KTM SD GT (great bike but ugly!) before getting the Ducati.

Always have to post a photo of course...

The cost of the Akrapovic exhaust for the V4 is over $5K USD and ~8hrs of labor to install it. They’re solely banking on the Ducatista ignorance. I’ll stay in my cheap seat. 

3 hours ago, St. Stephen

I'm sure you will be very happy with the boxer BMW. Five years ago I spent two weeks riding an R1200RT, one of the first liquid cooled boxers, and was very impressed, just a little too much on the touring side of sport touring. I looked at the BMW RS, KTM SD GT (great bike but ugly!) before getting the Ducati.

Great minds think alike.  I test rode a newer, low miles used RT at the local dealer this summer.  It was very nice and very comfortable, but just bigger than I wanted for an everyday bike.  However I could see it would be easy to put major miles on one of them.  I'd love to add one to the garage if I ever decide to do much more touring than I do now.

The original KTM SuperDuke was one of my early dream bikes, and you can find them around now pretty cheap.  But from what I've read everything is expensive on a KTM.  Plus I'm sure it's not like KTM dealers have many spare parts for their road and adventure bikes just laying around.  😞 

Threw the dirt wheels on the DRZ SM and packed it up for a 450 mile trip to Leavitt Lake form San Jose. I was gonna take the VFR1200, but the trail to the lake is a steep rutted loose rocky trail, only a few miles long, but the GS even had some trouble.

     Hotter than hell this weekend, but mesh gear, ice, and plenty of water made it bearable. Luckily I only have an 80 mile range, so we were stopping just before running out of water in the camel back. Went with my brother in law, on his BMW F800GS. He is fairly new to riding and does not take freeways, so we took a few back roads to get out of the bat area. Sierra Rd, Calaveras Rd (just opened after the fire), and Corral Hollow. We would have taken Mt Hamilton, but it was still closed because of the massive fire. I had no problem keeping up with him, except the few miles of freeway that were un-avoidable. The little DRZ only goes about 80 max, and even then it's winding out and starting to speed wobble. I was worried about the MX pumper carb, but it ran great even at 10,000 feet.

Here are some pics from the trip. 

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The landscape makes me think of camping on the Moon, or even Mars when the skies were red from the ash and smoke later in the day. The picture with my bro-in-law does not even do the scale justice. Those peaks are about 2,000' above the lake, not quite as impressive as Half Dome or El Cap, but pretty close! 

C'mon man, those bikes are waaaay too clean!  

(great photos though)

Stopped by the Donnell Reservoir on the way back and it was over 100 degrees at least a half hour outside of Sonora, all the way to San Jose. coming back on Corral Hollow Rd we were very spirited with throttle application through the canyon. As we entered the rural part of Livermore the was a CHP blocking the road with his lights on. We thought someone called in our shenanigans, but it turns out there was an active shooter, and the road was closed. We had to back track in the 108+ temps to 580, and go North to Patterson Pass Rd, then back up through Livermore. My Sena melted off my helmet in Livermore when it was 112, and we pulled over to fix it. The GS overheated and was puking coolant right as we started back up. Made it home in time for an ice cold beer at 6:30

Reminded me of the Kerneville, and Sierra rides we used to do with VFR guys 😁

Looking to buy a Tenere 700 or Africa Twin, to complete my addiction. Looking forward to many more trips!

Hahaha, some how we managed to keep them upright!

I was thinking about the old crew, gotta get a ride in one of these days...

Great pix from your trip!  I used to be more willing to ride in hot temps, but age (and being out of shape) has dampened my enthusiasm for riding in temps above 90, or maybe the mid-90s.  I can't even imagine riding when it's over 100.

When I was bike shopping earlier this year I did consider a couple adventure style bikes, and specifically the BMW F750GS, which is really more street oriented.  I think if there were more public access dirt and gravel roads to ride to scenic areas in my region I'd shop for an adventure bike.

22 hours ago, RC1237V

Hahaha, some how we managed to keep them upright!

I was thinking about the old crew, gotta get a ride in one of these days...

Yup, we need to do a Sierra overnight next year. 

I think our old crew's biggest issue--or at least mine!--was being too lazy to call a ride. Either Brian or Jeff would organize everything or it didn't happen. Jeff has disappeared (to Morocco all year?) and Brian has turned into a Ducati guy (what could be worse? 😉). 

Anyway, you make me want to buy a DR or small KTM, looks like fun!

one more epic Sierra photo of the north bay hooligans, couldn't resist:

Brian a Ducati guy? Last I heard, he was an Alfa Romeo guy....I guess he likes those pasta machines. Although I will be the first to admit, they do have top-notch performance and style like nothing else!