I figure its about time that I start putting my VFR EV project out there. I was recently featured on Autobloggreen , and I guess I didn't think that many people were interested. But then My website stats jumped quite dramatically... so there's interest. Thought you VFR guys might like to follow the progress, I'm a few weeks away from having it running.
My website is: http://www.evfr.net and there are plenty of pictures, and a blog or two a week since I started last year.
About the project:
The bike is a 1986 Honda VFR700F that I found in Florida for $400 with no title, in like new condition. Brand new tires, been stored for 10 years with $4270 miles on it. I got it shipped to Oregon for $675, and parted out the engine, exhaust and electrical and just about broke even. The bike was essentially free. The title was lost, but it checked out, so I found another frame for $150 and swapped it after engine removal.
I'm currently working with a company in Portland on building a very robust 600A 156V fully programmable series motor controller. Its in test right now, and we're finalizing the design. We've got a PDA communicating with it for my display. It will display MPH (tach input to controller), motor rpm, battery side voltage and current, motor side current and voltage. It will display each battery voltage in the future. We're also working on battery balancing and charging designs.
A couple months ago I found an Advanced DC K99-4007 motor on a surplus website, and bought 2 of them. They are equivalent to the ADC K91-4003. They max out at around 50 or so ftlbs or torque and 18hp. Its 56lbs and has plenty of thermal mass. max RPM is around 5500. Just need to machine the shaft for a keyway and shorten the shaft.
I also scored 12 18Ah batteries (will do series parallel to get 72V) from another EV Motorcycle guy. They're about 13lbs a piece, for about a 36Ah pack at 72V, and 54Ah at 48V. Still working on how I want to charge and balance them.
Just picked up a Vicor 200W 48V to 12V DC DC converter for my accessories/lights/contactor for $20... score.
So I've got batteries, DC-DC, motor, controller, contactor, rolling chassis. I need to fabricate the motor mount (the Portland guys are helping me), make a battery cage and some battery/motor cables. I'm trying to pick sprockets and think I'll go with a 4:1 ratio. Some guys with eteks/perm132 go 5:1 up to 7:1. Other guys with smaller ADC motors go anywhere from 3.5:1 to 4.5:1. My motor is larger with more power, so 4:1 should be just right. I'm changing from 530 chain (#50) to #40 chain to make it more quiet. Sprocketspecialists have sprockets for me for under $100, and surpluscenter.com has sprockets and nickel chain. I need to start looking for a charger for short term, we're working on distributed charging right now, and its being tested.
So thats about where I am. Comments, critiques appreciated.
Travis Gintz
1986 eVFR
1986 Vfr700 Conversion To Electric
134 posts Started 7 Mar 2008 Last recovered post 7 Apr 2013 Wayback Machine snapshot 19 Aug 2019
Ouch, Sounds like you had a real nice bike there. I am not a big believer in the vehicle emissions caused global debate. I'm all for alternative and better use of resouces but I think motocycles are already more "eco-friendly" than say semi tractors. I guess good luck on one side and on the other I think you ruined a perfectly good bike. No offense meant.
Cool. Quick. Finish it. :thumbsup: When do you start production?
The original engine wasn't in good shape, it had been sitting with fuel, the gas tank was rusted, carbs were dry and cracked, and the oil gummed up. it hadn't been run in 10 years. It wasn't a perfectly good bike, plus, no title. there was no way this thing was going to run legally ever again until I bought it.
It would have cost the 150 plus the cost of rebuilding the carbs and couplers, rebuilding the engine. Plus, it was in FL, near the beach, and it was a little corroded inside and out, because he would turn it over every now and then, pull in the salty air, and let it sit for a few months.
It would have cost the 150 plus the cost of rebuilding the carbs and couplers, rebuilding the engine. Plus, it was in FL, near the beach, and it was a little corroded inside and out, because he would turn it over every now and then, pull in the salty air, and let it sit for a few months.
[image: View Post]Rivcyko, on Mar 7 2008, 10:31 AM, said:
Cool. Quick. Finish it. :thumbsup: When do you start production?Well, since i've got 2 identical bikes (other one was a 90k+ miles, blown engine for free), 2 motors and time, I'm going to fab both motor mounts, both battery cages, and get them both working.
If anyone is interested, I might be selling the second one when i'm done to pay for another project.
This sounds like a fun project. Will you be coupling a transmission to take advantage of the incredible torque, and turn it into RPMs?
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on Mar 7 2008, 10:51 AM, said:
This sounds like a fun project. Will you be coupling a transmission to take advantage of the incredible torque, and turn it into RPMs?It will have no transmission (original was integrated too much into the engine to use). it will be a direct drive, with 4:1 ratio, but allow me to change lower or higher (3.5-4.5) if I change the front sprocket. Custom rear sprocket, standard #40 front, with #40 chain. Going smaller to cut down on noise since the front sprocket is going smaller, and rear is going larger. Plus, replacement sprockets are cheaper at #40, as well as the chain.
Electric motors have max torque at 0RPM, and the torque curve is alot more flat, the power band is pretty wide. I'll still have around 20ftlbs at 4-5k rpm, but 50 or 60+ ftlbs at a standing start. Even with the gear ratio being 4:1 (the original has around a 15:1 in first because of the primary reduction, 1st gear ratio and final drive ratio, but has low torque when starting). Hoping to accelerate similar to the original, the motor is huge, 500A capability. Speed = Voltage, Torque = Amps.
More power to you. I live in Portland too and own a 1994 US Electricar Prism. I've thought a great deal about electric drive for motorcycles. I even bought a Honda Elite scooter to convert before I bought the car. There are definitely great things to come with electric vehicles. If I had a clean sheet of paper for a motorcycle design I'd be going diesel-electric hybrid with the diesel serving solely as a generator. Think of the range!
There are so many engineers here at VFRD I would think your project should generate at least some excitement. Definitely limited in range though, so I'm sure you won't stray much beyond city limits. Why not go with L-Ion?
BTW, for those who believe vehicle emissions are are insignificant contributors to global warming, I suppose it's your right to deliberately mislead yourself, but please read this before commenting here.
EDIT: Just checked out your site. Should have known you were working with Synkromotive :thumbsup:
There are so many engineers here at VFRD I would think your project should generate at least some excitement. Definitely limited in range though, so I'm sure you won't stray much beyond city limits. Why not go with L-Ion?
BTW, for those who believe vehicle emissions are are insignificant contributors to global warming, I suppose it's your right to deliberately mislead yourself, but please read this before commenting here.
EDIT: Just checked out your site. Should have known you were working with Synkromotive :thumbsup:
Sounds like a great project, but too much electrical mumbo jumbo for my simple mind to comprehend though ! :rolleyes:
I'm sure all the engineeres around here are playing with themselfs as I type this. :goofy:
That is one sweet looking 86 you found there BTW! :thumbsup:
I'm sure all the engineeres around here are playing with themselfs as I type this. :goofy:
That is one sweet looking 86 you found there BTW! :thumbsup:
Hey there. I wish you luck with your project, although it does not interest me much. When you finish this project, maybe you can help the world switch from diesel trucks and ships to electric. That's the real problem here, not the poor little 700cc bike that just got molested.
Sorry if I said too much, I do wish you a successful end to your bike.
Sorry if I said too much, I do wish you a successful end to your bike.
Good luck, but "WAAAAY" out of my league.................. :unsure:
Are you doing any other work to the bike to make it a full package(like tuning the suspension), or just getting the motor and juice in there and getting it to work?
step one: getting it to work at 48V
step 2: getting the 72V controller and reconfiguring the battery pack.
step 3: Once this is all dialed in, I will begin looking at LiFePo batteries (Lithium Iron Phosphate) but right now, they're too expensive, but the prices are coming down. They really need off the shelf Battery management systems. Once its lithium, I'll basically be done, but I might tweak here and there with the rest of the bike (like MAYBE a diff rear shock/front forks)... we'll see.
The thing is, this is bike one, bike two will be a similar setup, but with regen capabilities. More or less going to be a test bike, but we may make a track bike out of it, we're still deciding.
So this isn't all that we're doing to this bike, its going to have some pretty cool stuff added to it...
And we're tossing ideas around about propane/gas 1kV generators that can be strapped on the back for charging/extended range.
step 2: getting the 72V controller and reconfiguring the battery pack.
step 3: Once this is all dialed in, I will begin looking at LiFePo batteries (Lithium Iron Phosphate) but right now, they're too expensive, but the prices are coming down. They really need off the shelf Battery management systems. Once its lithium, I'll basically be done, but I might tweak here and there with the rest of the bike (like MAYBE a diff rear shock/front forks)... we'll see.
The thing is, this is bike one, bike two will be a similar setup, but with regen capabilities. More or less going to be a test bike, but we may make a track bike out of it, we're still deciding.
So this isn't all that we're doing to this bike, its going to have some pretty cool stuff added to it...
And we're tossing ideas around about propane/gas 1kV generators that can be strapped on the back for charging/extended range.
you're an engineer, so mathematically calculate the new spring rates you will need at front and rear to compensate for the increased weight. Show your formulae and work.
tyres, too may be inadequate for extra pounds?
may need to drastically change sprocket sizes also.
tyres, too may be inadequate for extra pounds?
may need to drastically change sprocket sizes also.
[image: View Post]frodus, on Mar 7 2008, 02:34 PM, said:
The original engine wasn't in good shape, it had been sitting with fuel, the gas tank was rusted, carbs were dry and cracked, and the oil gummed up. it hadn't been run in 10 years. It wasn't a perfectly good bike, plus, no title. there was no way this thing was going to run legally ever again until I bought it.I'm so glad you explained this. I'm all about experimentation and electric power but that looked too much like a great copy of my old bike.
Other than that I think an '86 VFR is a great choice for your project. It was ahead of its time when it came out and if you are successful you'll do the VFR proud.
I think your bike sounds like a very interesting project and an electric track bike would be sweet! I wonder if you could run it in clubman class in Wera! lol The regen system certainly would be very helpful on a sport/city bike. How much of a weight difference is there going to be between the gas version and the electric version?
To the people who don't like the idea. Wouldn't the idea of a nearly silent, smooth, rocket of a bike scare the crap out of the busa types? :salesman:
To the people who don't like the idea. Wouldn't the idea of a nearly silent, smooth, rocket of a bike scare the crap out of the busa types? :salesman:
[image: View Post]frodus, on Mar 7 2008, 11:36 AM, said:
<snip>So thats about where I am. Comments, critiques appreciated.
Travis Gintz
1986 eVFR
Cool project, and ambitious :thumbsup: Not my cup of tea, but it should make for an interesting ride. Since the tank was rusty inside, did you gut the bottom piece for some packaging space? Seems like using just the top stamping would give you some room for...stuff. And shave a bit of weight.
Can you program your PDA to pipe V4 exhaust and cam gear sounds to a set of headphones? :goofy:
Oh, one last thing: Would a VTR-250 be a good place to start? Seems like that would be a lighter bike to start with, and the rear wheel would be set up for a smaller (ie, more efficient) chain drive. What are you doing for final drive, btw? Stock-type sprocket? Toothed belt? Toothed belt would be the cat's azz.
Good luck! And I can't wait to see youtube videos of this thing!
[image: View Post]slowf2337, on Mar 10 2008, 08:39 PM, said:
To the people who don't like the idea. Wouldn't the idea of a nearly silent, smooth, rocket of a bike scare the crap out of the busa types? :salesman:I thought that I was the only guy around who wanted a quiet bike. I thought that I was the last guy around who has the stock pipe by choice. While I love the growl of our V-4s (and for some of us the whirr of our gear driven cams) the idea of a near silent bike is damn cool. It must be because I've been a bicycle racer for a long time.
I think what you are doing is amazing. Although I comprehend very little of it myself. Good luck, can't wait to see the finished product!
Goodness I can't believe the bashing...
That is a cool project Travis, best of luck and keep the updates coming. :thumbsup:
That is a cool project Travis, best of luck and keep the updates coming. :thumbsup:
[image: View Post]squirrelman, on Mar 10 2008, 05:30 PM, said:
you're an engineer, so mathematically calculate the new spring rates you will need at front and rear to compensate for the increased weight. Show your formulae and work.tyres, too may be inadequate for extra pounds?
may need to drastically change sprocket sizes also.
just as you replied on VFRworld, I'll explain again
I don't know where I said it was going to be heavier... I just said it wasn't going to have a weight savings.... there's a difference.
Even with lead batteries, its going to be ~75bs LIGHTER than stock dry weight.
[image: View Post]rickdick80, on Mar 10 2008, 06:09 PM, said:
[image: View Post]frodus, on Mar 7 2008, 11:36 AM, said:
<snip>So thats about where I am. Comments, critiques appreciated.
Travis Gintz
1986 eVFR
Cool project, and ambitious :thumbsup: Not my cup of tea, but it should make for an interesting ride. Since the tank was rusty inside, did you gut the bottom piece for some packaging space? Seems like using just the top stamping would give you some room for...stuff. And shave a bit of weight.
Can you program your PDA to pipe V4 exhaust and cam gear sounds to a set of headphones? :goofy:
Oh, one last thing: Would a VTR-250 be a good place to start? Seems like that would be a lighter bike to start with, and the rear wheel would be set up for a smaller (ie, more efficient) chain drive. What are you doing for final drive, btw? Stock-type sprocket? Toothed belt? Toothed belt would be the cat's azz.
Good luck! And I can't wait to see youtube videos of this thing!
I'm going to guy the bottom of the tank, and let it be a hinged cover for the controller.... thats the plan.
I think the VTR would have been good, but it doesn't have as much room, harder to get parts for, and I didn't see many around.
Final drive will be somewhere around 4:1 maybe closer to 4.5:1 Can't do toothed belt, if I had to replace it, the whole swingarm has to come off....
I went downtown today, we'll start mocking up some motormounts for the new DC motor. I'll at least have 4 of the batteries hooked up to stroll around the parking lot within the next few weeks if all the parts get ordered and shipped on time.
[image: View Post]frodus, on Mar 10 2008, 11:01 PM, said:
I went downtown today, we'll start mocking up some motormounts for the new DC motor. I'll at least have 4 of the batteries hooked up to stroll around the parking lot within the next few weeks if all the parts get ordered and shipped on time.I'll try not to step on Travis' toes here. This project is all his, but I met him down at the shop last night and checked out the bike. It looks like I get to come down and 'hand him wrenches' while he mocks up packaging and builds brackets and racks for the motor, batteries, controller, and charger. He even has an idea for a generator in one "saddlebag" and fuel in another for a range-extending hybrid. The cool thing is that much of the technology is out there already. It just needs to be put together. Vectrix is getting close with this.
Give the industry 5 more years and you'll see a bike with some sort of electric drive that we'd all enjoy riding.
[image: View Post]magellan, on Mar 11 2008, 10:20 AM, said:
[image: View Post]frodus, on Mar 10 2008, 11:01 PM, said:
I went downtown today, we'll start mocking up some motormounts for the new DC motor. I'll at least have 4 of the batteries hooked up to stroll around the parking lot within the next few weeks if all the parts get ordered and shipped on time.I'll try not to step on Travis' toes here. This project is all his, but I met him down at the shop last night and checked out the bike. It looks like I get to come down and 'hand him wrenches' while he mocks up packaging and builds brackets and racks for the motor, batteries, controller, and charger. He even has an idea for a generator in one "saddlebag" and fuel in another for a range-extending hybrid. The cool thing is that much of the technology is out there already. It just needs to be put together. Vectrix is getting close with this.
Give the industry 5 more years and you'll see a bike with some sort of electric drive that we'd all enjoy riding.
Thanks for coming down last night, it was good finally meeting a member of the VFR community.
hopefully we can get the motor mounted after a couple days of hanging out at the shop. Then we'll throw 4 batteries in and wire it up to test.
Cool stuff, there also a New electric MX bike just released in the US called the Quantya FMX @ 195 lbs, and similar torque of a CRF250X at 23 ft lbs. Cost $9975.
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/11/...torcycle-in-us/
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/11/...torcycle-in-us/
That's awesome. I'm all for experimentation, you just have to be ready to hear from people who don't like change or don't understand what you're trying to do. There's no valid reason not to try something new, as long as you aren't hurting someone. If it weren't for inovation we wouldn't be riding VFRs :)
I wouldn't gut my performance tourer for a battery scoot, but I wouldn't mind owning an alternate fuel something someday.
Keep up the good work!
I wouldn't gut my performance tourer for a battery scoot, but I wouldn't mind owning an alternate fuel something someday.
Keep up the good work!
[image: View Post]canib, on Mar 11 2008, 12:16 PM, said:
That's awesome. I'm all for experimentation, you just have to be ready to hear from people who don't like change or don't understand what you're trying to do. There's no valid reason not to try something new, as long as you aren't hurting someone. If it weren't for inovation we wouldn't be riding VFRs :)Keep up the good work!
I was ready when I posted, I know how forums are... I just figured out of the people that do read, maybe 5% would be interested...
I love projects and follow others doing theirs... and if I had seen this type of project before, I might have been inclined to do it myself...
oh wait... I did..
Hey,
Great idea, what a wonderful thing if we could use bikes that are quiet. :thumbsup: I like my vfr with the TwoBros exhaust, but you can't beat a quiet bike. Do you think that this project is realistic for a company to consider for mass production? I mean is there any of your components hat would be just too hard to find/produce, or too heavy for production? I really know nothing about all this, but I sure like the concept. Speaking of which, what's that next project you'll be working on? Will it be a "better" electric bike? Just curious...
Way to go though, I love the idea! Let us know when it's finished.
Great idea, what a wonderful thing if we could use bikes that are quiet. :thumbsup: I like my vfr with the TwoBros exhaust, but you can't beat a quiet bike. Do you think that this project is realistic for a company to consider for mass production? I mean is there any of your components hat would be just too hard to find/produce, or too heavy for production? I really know nothing about all this, but I sure like the concept. Speaking of which, what's that next project you'll be working on? Will it be a "better" electric bike? Just curious...
Way to go though, I love the idea! Let us know when it's finished.
[image: View Post]PolarBear, on Mar 11 2008, 09:31 PM, said:
Hey,Great idea, what a wonderful thing if we could use bikes that are quiet. :thumbsup: I like my vfr with the TwoBros exhaust, but you can't beat a quiet bike. Do you think that this project is realistic for a company to consider for mass production? I mean is there any of your components hat would be just too hard to find/produce, or too heavy for production? I really know nothing about all this, but I sure like the concept. Speaking of which, what's that next project you'll be working on? Will it be a "better" electric bike? Just curious...
Way to go though, I love the idea! Let us know when it's finished.
all the parts are off the shelf, controller, batteries, contactor, DC-DC converter, cable, gauges...
some of the controls and monitoring and battery management need development, but there's stuff out there.
Next project... a drag bike
[image: View Post]frodus, on Mar 11 2008, 09:58 PM, said:
all the parts are off the shelf, controller, batteries, contactor, DC-DC converter, cable, gauges...If only someone would sell us a hundred complete bikes sans engine and fuel systems, we could build these all day long. Electric Motorsport did until Piaggio stopped selling Derbi MCs in North America. There's a lot of room for improvement over what these guys have been selling, though. For example, the motor Travis is using would stomp the one in the Electric GPR sold by Electric Motorsport.
well, alot of their new conversions are using a really nice AC motor... full regen, 80ftlbs of torque and 25hp (doesn't sound like alot, but its a flat power curve).... couple that with LiPo, and you're scootin.
The original DC motor was good, but mine would stomp it :)
The original DC motor was good, but mine would stomp it :)
Following this with great relish (a little mustard too).
Thought about a similar project, trying to duplicate the Suzuki Nuda, 2 AC motors in the wheels, with full regen and batteries in the center, easy controls, SSS front and rear. Just waiting on battery density to get a little higher so I can go comfortably back and forth to work, say 100 miles on a single charge with no worries, power to spare at 100. Charger in the tail, plug in and leave. Maybe even a fold out solar charger for all day long here in Texas.
Gets closer to possible everyday. Just like I need another project. But in the future.
Larry
VFRrider
Thought about a similar project, trying to duplicate the Suzuki Nuda, 2 AC motors in the wheels, with full regen and batteries in the center, easy controls, SSS front and rear. Just waiting on battery density to get a little higher so I can go comfortably back and forth to work, say 100 miles on a single charge with no worries, power to spare at 100. Charger in the tail, plug in and leave. Maybe even a fold out solar charger for all day long here in Texas.
Gets closer to possible everyday. Just like I need another project. But in the future.
Larry
VFRrider
A coworker did the same conversion to an RZ350. Until he retired recently, he frequently rode it the 12 miles to work and plugged it in when he got here. (The company is required by law to provide him with an accessible outlet to plug his bike into.) He had the range up to 60 miles on one charge the last time I spoke with him.
He frequently scares the crap out of joggers as he passes by them (not intentionally, of course).
http://electricmotor...ordpress/?p=248
Best of luck with your project!
He frequently scares the crap out of joggers as he passes by them (not intentionally, of course).
http://electricmotor...ordpress/?p=248
Best of luck with your project!
viperpilot.... thats one of the bikes that inspired me.... he did a great job on the conversion, nice and clean install.
I'm a fairing guy though... and since I got uppers from Airtech (no headlight holes) and lowers from Chuck Crites, I might actually get some help from a guy I know with making them even MORE aerodynamic, since I don't need engine vents/intakes.
But I hear you (and everyone else) on the range. LiFePo is within reach. Within a couple years, and all the machinery/process is outlined for producing batteries in mass, we'll see 100Ah LiFePo batteries with built in balancing available. just think, with ~35Ah, and a 400lb bike at 72V, most guys get around 15-20. you would likely quadruple that if you went 100Ah because of the weight savings, plus, you could put more batteries in the lead battery's place... and extend range even more. Its coming, has been for the last couple years, just look at the RC Industry and LiPo batteries.
I'm a fairing guy though... and since I got uppers from Airtech (no headlight holes) and lowers from Chuck Crites, I might actually get some help from a guy I know with making them even MORE aerodynamic, since I don't need engine vents/intakes.
But I hear you (and everyone else) on the range. LiFePo is within reach. Within a couple years, and all the machinery/process is outlined for producing batteries in mass, we'll see 100Ah LiFePo batteries with built in balancing available. just think, with ~35Ah, and a 400lb bike at 72V, most guys get around 15-20. you would likely quadruple that if you went 100Ah because of the weight savings, plus, you could put more batteries in the lead battery's place... and extend range even more. Its coming, has been for the last couple years, just look at the RC Industry and LiPo batteries.
[image: View Post]viperpilot, on Mar 12 2008, 01:01 PM, said:
A coworker did the same conversion to an RZ350. Until he retired recently, he frequently rode it the 12 miles to work and plugged it in when he got here. (The company is required by law to provide him with an accessible outlet to plug his bike into.) He had the range up to 60 miles on one charge the last time I spoke with him.He frequently scares the crap out of joggers as he passes by them (not intentionally, of course).
http://electricmotor...ordpress/?p=248
Best of luck with your project!
I'm glad that people are doing this with all my favorite bikes! (VFR RZ350)
Although with those skinny tires the RZ must get mistaken for a moped when it goes by without the 2 stroke buzz.
[image: View Post]frodus, on Mar 7 2008, 12:36 PM, said:
I'm trying to pick sprockets and think I'll go with a 4:1 ratio. Some guys with eteks/perm132 go 5:1 up to 7:1. Other guys with smaller ADC motors go anywhere from 3.5:1 to 4.5:1. My motor is larger with more power, so 4:1 should be just right. I'm changing from 530 chain (#50) to #40 chain to make it more quiet. Sprocketspecialists have sprockets for me for under $100, and surpluscenter.com has sprockets and nickel chain.Cool project. I'll be interested to see how it turns out. By any chance, have you thought about going to a belt drive instead of a chain? That would really keep your noise level down.
[image: View Post]tyrroneous, on Mar 12 2008, 09:37 AM, said:
[image: View Post]frodus, on Mar 7 2008, 12:36 PM, said:
I'm trying to pick sprockets and think I'll go with a 4:1 ratio. Some guys with eteks/perm132 go 5:1 up to 7:1. Other guys with smaller ADC motors go anywhere from 3.5:1 to 4.5:1. My motor is larger with more power, so 4:1 should be just right. I'm changing from 530 chain (#50) to #40 chain to make it more quiet. Sprocketspecialists have sprockets for me for under $100, and surpluscenter.com has sprockets and nickel chain.Cool project. I'll be interested to see how it turns out. By any chance, have you thought about going to a belt drive instead of a chain? That would really keep your noise level down.
yeah, thought about it, wanted to do it, but I'd have to take the whole rear suspension off just to replace the belt, even if I tried to have guide pulleys and had the belt come in on the top of the swingarm, it'd be tough, and would change the Center of gravity raising the 60lb motor.
I've thought about alot of design ideas, ranging from doing a 144V pack, to putting in a CVT like they have on snowmobiles all the way to hub motors, AC motors/controllers, .... and as Loni mentioned, having a removable "generator" around 1.5kW or less for extended trips. Once I started thinking about all of those, I realized, its far better to get a running mechanical system to tune the electrical with in the beginning, than it is to get a mechanical system working without knowing the limitations of the electrical. Once I have the mechanical down, I can change out motors and controllers and batteries all day. In fact, I'm trying to go AC in the end. Synkromotive has a 250A 3phase AC controller for BLDC motors... its just on pause while we work on the 600A DC. Once I go AC, I'll likely never go back to a DC motor/controller.
Fantastic Project. I live in Portland and would love to see this when it is done or before. My vision is along the lines of the hybrid diesel/electric drive but battery drive is great. I too am surprised at the bashing and myopia that has surfaced here. Must be akin to the love of under seat exhaust. LOL
[image: View Post]scout18, on Mar 12 2008, 11:06 AM, said:
Fantastic Project. I live in Portland and would love to see this when it is done or before. My vision is along the lines of the hybrid diesel/electric drive but battery drive is great. I too am surprised at the bashing and myopia that has surfaced here. Must be akin to the love of under seat exhaust. LOLActually I've gotten better feedback than expected...
PM me and I'll give you my number... come check it out anytime.
We've made some great progress. Travis gave me permission to update the thread, so I'll post up a link to his pics and the link to his site in addition to the pics posted here.
It's no small task to find a motor of sufficient output that fits between the frame rails, clears the swingarm once sprockets and chain are in place, and mounts to the existing frame with little modification. The strange thing here is that the '86 frame seems custom-made to accept this motor. All we had to do was grab some 3/8" aluminum plate and cut it to fit the available space, then mount it up with bushings to minimize resonance from the chain-drive through the main frame.
Early plate fab: [image: Posted Image]
Rough Layout.jpg
Then we removed excess material and cleaned up the edges. The motor face plate is attached to the back plate with seven stainless hex-drive bolts, so it won't be going anywhere! [image: Posted Image]
Mounting Plates Done.jpg
Plenty of clearance top and bottom of the swingarm: [image: Posted Image]
Swingarm Clearance.jpg
Mounted up:
[image: Posted Image]
Motor in the Bike.jpg
And Travis with his dream bike... [image: Posted Image]
Proud Owner.jpg
Next week we'll get the battery trays installed, and within another week of that we'll be road testing!
It's no small task to find a motor of sufficient output that fits between the frame rails, clears the swingarm once sprockets and chain are in place, and mounts to the existing frame with little modification. The strange thing here is that the '86 frame seems custom-made to accept this motor. All we had to do was grab some 3/8" aluminum plate and cut it to fit the available space, then mount it up with bushings to minimize resonance from the chain-drive through the main frame.
Early plate fab: [image: Posted Image]
Rough Layout.jpg
Then we removed excess material and cleaned up the edges. The motor face plate is attached to the back plate with seven stainless hex-drive bolts, so it won't be going anywhere! [image: Posted Image]
Mounting Plates Done.jpg
Plenty of clearance top and bottom of the swingarm: [image: Posted Image]
Swingarm Clearance.jpg
Mounted up:
[image: Posted Image]
Motor in the Bike.jpg
And Travis with his dream bike... [image: Posted Image]
Proud Owner.jpg
Next week we'll get the battery trays installed, and within another week of that we'll be road testing!
NOOOOOOO!! Not A VFR!!!!!!
AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
<stifle emotion>
Okay, I really really don't like that you used a VFR for this but it is done.
Now do not give up on the electric bike, I think that you are doing great and have put a lot of effort in the planning and design.
You are approaching this as a system, not just a "RG" conversion.
I agree that we as a nation need to break way from our gas dependency.
And I believe that we all have to do something very extreme when it comes to resolving issues of emmissions.
But I cannot agree that this vehicle is going to be a ZEV.
Yeah its electric, but where and how is the electricity generated.
Around here its generated by burning gas or coal to drive the generators, there is no hydro power nor is there a serious nuclear presence here. I this area that bike would just be a remote polluter.
Keep at it though, Make it work!!.
I'm going to investigate another alternate fuel source tonight.
AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
<stifle emotion>
Okay, I really really don't like that you used a VFR for this but it is done.
Now do not give up on the electric bike, I think that you are doing great and have put a lot of effort in the planning and design.
You are approaching this as a system, not just a "RG" conversion.
I agree that we as a nation need to break way from our gas dependency.
And I believe that we all have to do something very extreme when it comes to resolving issues of emmissions.
But I cannot agree that this vehicle is going to be a ZEV.
Yeah its electric, but where and how is the electricity generated.
Around here its generated by burning gas or coal to drive the generators, there is no hydro power nor is there a serious nuclear presence here. I this area that bike would just be a remote polluter.
Keep at it though, Make it work!!.
I'm going to investigate another alternate fuel source tonight.
[image: View Post]JES_VFR, on Apr 26 2008, 05:05 PM, said:
just be a remote polluter.I've heard this argument repeated too many times, and it's imperative that people realize how short-sighted it is. Coal-fired power plants need to be replaced with renewable sources. The U.S. power grid needs an overhaul. Storage of DC electricity (generated by wind and solar) at sub-stations within the grid needs to become widespread. The technology is already here, but the political will is lacking.
Think of it this way: Sucking the last drop of petrol from the ground so we can continue to pollute with 50 million cars is much less palatable than moving pollution production to a single site while we work out how to clean up the power plant.
I imagine a mixed solution. EVs for commuting/city use, and plug-in hybrids for long trips. Urban air pollution would plummet to a tiny fraction of what it is now while eventually even our power plants become non-polluting.
[image: View Post]magellan, on Apr 28 2008, 03:02 AM, said:
[image: View Post]JES_VFR, on Apr 26 2008, 05:05 PM, said:
just be a remote polluter.I've heard this argument repeated too many times, and it's imperative that people realize how short-sighted it is. Coal-fired power plants need to be replaced with renewable sources. The U.S. power grid needs an overhaul. Storage of DC electricity (generated by wind and solar) at sub-stations within the grid needs to become widespread. The technology is already here, but the political will is lacking.
Think of it this way: Sucking the last drop of petrol from the ground so we can continue to pollute with 50 million cars is much less palatable than moving pollution production to a single site while we work out how to clean up the power plant.
I imagine a mixed solution. EVs for commuting/city use, and plug-in hybrids for long trips. Urban air pollution would plummet to a tiny fraction of what it is now while eventually even our power plants become non-polluting.
Hey don't get me wrong, we very much need to resolve our electric generation issues. Coal and natural gas plants need to be replaced with other sources.
My only point was that until they are, even this bike will not be a ZEV, The pollution will just occur external to the bike.
There are too many scaredy cats when it comes to Nuclear power plants, but that is only because of the problems with the current system. I remember the Three Mile Island incident, since I pretty much grew up downstream, yet I later realized that there were three other plants in the area that operated without any known problems.
I guess what I disagree with you on the issue of what should come first clean electric generation or electric powered vehicles to use it.
Yeah sure we could built all these great ev cars, trucks, buses and bikes, only to choke to death on the coal fired plants smog.
This is just another example of the infrastructure issue that the next transportation fuel source will have to overcome.
Not to mention, knowing the nature of this country, what do you think is going to quadruple(or more) in price once we -as a whole nation- decide to switch to E-vehicles instead of gas? That's right, electricity. Leave it to a few greedy people to ruin a good thing for millions.
Sorry to sound pessimistic, but please try to convince me otherwise.
Sorry to sound pessimistic, but please try to convince me otherwise.
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Apr 30 2008, 04:49 AM, said:
Not to mention, knowing the nature of this country, what do you think is going to quadruple(or more) in price once we -as a whole nation- decide to switch to E-vehicles instead of gas? That's right, electricity. Leave it to a few greedy people to ruin a good thing for millions.Sorry to sound pessimistic, but please try to convince me otherwise.
That is certainly a possibility in the foreseeable future, but not for a good while, and only if we let it happen.
In fact, now is the time to get in on all of the rebates and incentives that make the cost of a solar electricity and water heating installation (or windmill if you have the wind and available land) worthwhile. With a large array you have all the power you need for your home and sell the excess back to the grid. California has an initiative to put solar panels on every rooftop, though Germany (yes, cloudy Germany) currently leads the world in solar infrastructure. Clean power is already available. We just have to go get it.
Here in Washington State, many landowners are installing windmills, and there are vast areas of the state with such constant wind that the windmills pay for themselves within a few years and then make the owner money forever after. I don't have that kind of land, but it would be pretty cool...
The problem with the grid to date is that inconsistently generated energy from tides and wind has nowhere to go. One of the big pushes is to develop efficient battery installations to accept the incoming current and store it so the power can be metered out at a controlled rate. Already, testing of multiple solutions is meeting with great success, which will encourage use of even more wind, solar, tidal, geothermal, and solar tower energy. All we need is the public will to encourage diverse sources of clean generation. Unfortunately, other countries are already way ahead of us.
Convinced yet?
[image: View Post]magellan, on May 1 2008, 06:20 AM, said:
In fact, now is the time to get in on all of the rebates and incentives that make the cost of a solar electricity and water heating installation (or windmill if you have the wind and available land) worthwhile. With a large array you have all the power you need for your home and sell the excess back to the grid. California has an initiative to put solar panels on every rooftop, though Germany (yes, cloudy Germany) currently leads the world in solar infrastructure. Clean power is already available. We just have to go get it.I need to check the veracity of this out for myself, but according to my [electronics/technology expert] son, solar panel technology is actually not good with respect to the whole global climate change / energy conservation saga. He told me that your average solar panel takes up to 9 times the energy to produce that it actually returns during its lifetime. They are horrendously inefficient at the moment, but improving slowly as pressure comes on to find alternatives to fossil fuel derived energy sources.
I liked a comment in the paper here in respect to some lame-ass, ill-considered 'energy conservation' proposal: "CO2 emissions would be reduced more by the people concerned holding their breath for one minute".
[image: View Post]enzed_viffer, on Apr 30 2008, 01:26 PM, said:
He told me that your average solar panel takes up to 9 times the energy to produce that it actually returns during its lifetime. They are horrendously inefficient at the moment, but improving slowly as pressure comes on to find alternatives to fossil fuel derived energy sources.Your son got hold of old and severely exaggerated information. From Wikipedia, citing this source: :warranty:
Solar cells and energy payback
In the 1990s, when silicon cells were twice as thick, efficiencies were 30% lower than today and lifetimes were shorter, it may well have cost more energy to make a cell than it could generate in a lifetime. In the meantime, the technology has progressed significantly, and the energy payback time of a modern photovoltaic module is typically from 1 to 4 years depending on the type and where it is used (see net energy gain). With a typical lifetime of 20 to 30 years, this means that modern solar cells are net energy producers, i.e they generate much more energy over their lifetime than the energy expended in producing them.
Photovoltaics are great and only getting better.
I will now hold my breath for one minute. :biggrin:
WOW, lots of new posts....
As far as using the VFR, I got one for free that was a basket case and 85k+ miles, needed lots of work. I found another non-running bike in florida, had engine problems, rusted tank, carbs needed rebuild, but it was only $400, no title. I put alot of effort into finding a chassis only, and sold the parts to VFR owners that needed engine parts, exhaust, electrical. So, I took TWO non-running basket cases and parted out the things I didn't need so that others could get theirs running. I also didn't want some ugly ass cruiser, I wanted a sport bike, but without spending $5k on a newer rolling chassis.
Long and short of it, They ended up both being free.... but getting them both rolling was another story. I had to get plenty of parts for the first one just to get it so it would roll (frozen brakes, rear shock was shot, front forks were pretty badly corroded and leaking, rusted subframes on front and back...etc).
As far as the ZEV aspect, It might not start out zero (take into acount manufacturing motor, controller, batteries...etc), how its charged (via socket), and what machine work was needed to convert... no, it is not, nor will any vehicle ever be a ZEV, its a fabled creature.
Now, if you want to talk about ZEV AFTER building it, That is my plan, to invest in some solar panels and charge at home. Efficiencies are increasing, cost is coming down, and they're more affordable per watt of power than ever before. Its only getting better. I could also add a 1000-2000W wind generator for cheap.
http://www.energy.go...ectricpower.htm
even natural gas is increasing, and its cleaner burning than coal, which has a TOTAL US use of 57%+, but they're also adding on cogen that use the exhaust from the turbines to put back into the system, cleaning up the output, and making them more efficient. 90% of the power generation facilities will be Natural gas and use cogen. I worked at GE Energy in Salem, VA, and know for a FACT that Wind and Natural gas turbines are their main source for power for its generators.
Technology is catching up, but MOST of the citizens in the US don't realize, Coal is cleaner burning than most fuel efficient cars. Natural gas is almost clean, nuclear is clean except for the waste, water has only environmental impact, solar is clean (after manufactured) and wind is clean and has low environmental impact (subsonic frequencies).
But even better, is that at today's prices I'll be getting right around 2 cents a mile economy, charge anywhere and be able to generate my own power. compared with 10-20 cents a mile (20-40mpg), having to full up at a gas station, and inability to make my own fuel.
As far as using the VFR, I got one for free that was a basket case and 85k+ miles, needed lots of work. I found another non-running bike in florida, had engine problems, rusted tank, carbs needed rebuild, but it was only $400, no title. I put alot of effort into finding a chassis only, and sold the parts to VFR owners that needed engine parts, exhaust, electrical. So, I took TWO non-running basket cases and parted out the things I didn't need so that others could get theirs running. I also didn't want some ugly ass cruiser, I wanted a sport bike, but without spending $5k on a newer rolling chassis.
Long and short of it, They ended up both being free.... but getting them both rolling was another story. I had to get plenty of parts for the first one just to get it so it would roll (frozen brakes, rear shock was shot, front forks were pretty badly corroded and leaking, rusted subframes on front and back...etc).
As far as the ZEV aspect, It might not start out zero (take into acount manufacturing motor, controller, batteries...etc), how its charged (via socket), and what machine work was needed to convert... no, it is not, nor will any vehicle ever be a ZEV, its a fabled creature.
Now, if you want to talk about ZEV AFTER building it, That is my plan, to invest in some solar panels and charge at home. Efficiencies are increasing, cost is coming down, and they're more affordable per watt of power than ever before. Its only getting better. I could also add a 1000-2000W wind generator for cheap.
http://www.energy.go...ectricpower.htm
even natural gas is increasing, and its cleaner burning than coal, which has a TOTAL US use of 57%+, but they're also adding on cogen that use the exhaust from the turbines to put back into the system, cleaning up the output, and making them more efficient. 90% of the power generation facilities will be Natural gas and use cogen. I worked at GE Energy in Salem, VA, and know for a FACT that Wind and Natural gas turbines are their main source for power for its generators.
Technology is catching up, but MOST of the citizens in the US don't realize, Coal is cleaner burning than most fuel efficient cars. Natural gas is almost clean, nuclear is clean except for the waste, water has only environmental impact, solar is clean (after manufactured) and wind is clean and has low environmental impact (subsonic frequencies).
But even better, is that at today's prices I'll be getting right around 2 cents a mile economy, charge anywhere and be able to generate my own power. compared with 10-20 cents a mile (20-40mpg), having to full up at a gas station, and inability to make my own fuel.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/02/pl...e-and-problems/
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120...ff_main_tff_top
both sides of stuff, yes there are issues, but as a whole, we need to do SOMETHING... even if electricity is that "something".
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120...ff_main_tff_top
both sides of stuff, yes there are issues, but as a whole, we need to do SOMETHING... even if electricity is that "something".
Here's a video of the rear wheel spinning.... just a 12V battery, nothing special yet....
Last night Loni and I beefed up the motor mount, Once I get things all buttoned down, I'll take some more pictures, it was too late last night.
Next step, figuring out what we're going to do about mounting batteries.
Video:
and some pictures:
[image: View Post]magellan, on May 1 2008, 07:00 PM, said:
[image: View Post]enzed_viffer, on Apr 30 2008, 01:26 PM, said:
He told me that your average solar panel takes up to 9 times the energy to produce that it actually returns during its lifetime. They are horrendously inefficient at the moment, but improving slowly as pressure comes on to find alternatives to fossil fuel derived energy sources.Your son got hold of old and severely exaggerated information.
Yeah, well I did say I hadn't checked it out for myself. :mellow:
Very Cool! Something different AND putting some otherwise unused/unusable VFR bits to a good use. Suggestion - If you need any more electronics or electrical goodies, get in touch with Sparky Electronics on Blackstone Ave. in Fresno CA. One of their regulars shows up on a 700 he has converted to EV. It isn't nearly as nice looking (no plastic), and he uses a Fisher motor and 24V batteries. Not sure what controller he uses.
I met the guy by chance in front of the store - the bike was quick off the line, and fast enough to run about town. The really cool/weird part was him zipping off without any engine noise. He claimed a 75 mile run time and he charged it at work so his operating cost was zero. I don't think it was registered or insured.
Personally I'd like to find a VF500 in good shape, got any leads?
I met the guy by chance in front of the store - the bike was quick off the line, and fast enough to run about town. The really cool/weird part was him zipping off without any engine noise. He claimed a 75 mile run time and he charged it at work so his operating cost was zero. I don't think it was registered or insured.
Personally I'd like to find a VF500 in good shape, got any leads?
75 Miles? Wow, what is he on! Not with lead batteries, not with a heavy 700 and definately not with 24V.... i think he might be yankin your chain... but maybe if he's using lithium, but not at 24V....thats craziness!
But yeah, I'll keep that place in mind.
Its an ongoing project, but its gaining more momentum now, because the end is more near than before. Its not going to be an impressively ranged EV at first, but it will look and drive nice and get some exposure, support and who knows, maybe I'll sell conversions.
We've got a VF500 right now, bare frame, no engine, needs some work, but in decent shape, no title :) Thats the next project.
I'll keep an eye out, but keep an eye on craigslist, thats where I got the first VFR. Crazedlist.org is good too (searches ALL cities of CL).
But yeah, I'll keep that place in mind.
Its an ongoing project, but its gaining more momentum now, because the end is more near than before. Its not going to be an impressively ranged EV at first, but it will look and drive nice and get some exposure, support and who knows, maybe I'll sell conversions.
We've got a VF500 right now, bare frame, no engine, needs some work, but in decent shape, no title :) Thats the next project.
I'll keep an eye out, but keep an eye on craigslist, thats where I got the first VFR. Crazedlist.org is good too (searches ALL cities of CL).
I got some more work done, we fabricated some battery trays, and should have them finished by next week. Then we can wire this b*tch up!
Click on the pic to read more:
[image: Posted Image]
Click on the pic to read more:
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/5-15-08/normal_IMG_1834.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/5-23-08/normal_IMG_1846.jpg){kind=link}
The biggest thing that turns me off to conversions is how the batteries just look like they are stuffed in there, whatever ones will fit. I would love to see some care taken to the asthetic nature in molding the batteries into the bike to disguise them a bit. Are they lead acid, or gel type? Do they have to be oriented vertically, or can they be angled? Is there any room for using regenerative braking or similar on a bike? Seems like there would be possibilities to use the wheels for this, where a car would be harder to adapt.
This is an amazing project and very timely as well.
I am watching with a lot of interest.
Also of interest is the fact that the rise in oil prices has brought alternative technologies to the forefront.
I like!
Keep up the good work!
On a related note, you seem very knowlegable in this electric business. Would you or anyone else know how much power it takes to charge an average electric car? A ballpark? Or a possible source to find this info?
I'll appreciate any help in finding this out.
The reason I'm asking is I am helping with a case study for a company that owns a patent for a 99.995% efficient power switching technology. The goal is to show savings on the example of electric car that their technology provides vs. regular 80% efficient technology.
I am watching with a lot of interest.
Also of interest is the fact that the rise in oil prices has brought alternative technologies to the forefront.
I like!
Keep up the good work!
On a related note, you seem very knowlegable in this electric business. Would you or anyone else know how much power it takes to charge an average electric car? A ballpark? Or a possible source to find this info?
I'll appreciate any help in finding this out.
The reason I'm asking is I am helping with a case study for a company that owns a patent for a 99.995% efficient power switching technology. The goal is to show savings on the example of electric car that their technology provides vs. regular 80% efficient technology.
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on May 23 2008, 12:06 PM, said:
The biggest thing that turns me off to conversions is how the batteries just look like they are stuffed in there, whatever ones will fit. I would love to see some care taken to the asthetic nature in molding the batteries into the bike to disguise them a bit. Are they lead acid, or gel type? Do they have to be oriented vertically, or can they be angled? Is there any room for using regenerative braking or similar on a bike? Seems like there would be possibilities to use the wheels for this, where a car would be harder to adapt.Did you look at our racks? I think we did a great job fitting in square batteries into a bike... plus the fairings cover it up. I used smaller ones that fit better inside the chassis.... Its not like companies are going to create cells that are "molded" to a form factor. What batteries were you thinking that could be "molded" or "disguised"? I'm all ears. I chose a small form factor for that reason. You should see the other guys trying to fit car batteries in theirs. Don't get started on lithium either, I'm not going to spend $5-10k for a battery pack.... I chose these for cost/form factor and ability to get high voltages and higher speed/efficiency. The batteries are Gel, and they can be oriented as shown in the pictures. SLA's and Gels can be oriented any way you want. Its the flooded batteries you have to orient horizontal. People don't use those in motorcycles because of the danger of spilling.
As far as "room" for regen.... do you know what regen is? It uses the push on the motor when you slow down.... the motor acts like a generator and charges the batteries. I can't do regen with this motor without modification, but we're working on an AC system, and that will have regen capability, in the same form factor as the motor/controller on this bike. You don't put anything else on the wheels to do regen, it has to do with the motor.
[image: View Post]frodus, on May 23 2008, 02:49 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on May 23 2008, 12:06 PM, said:
The biggest thing that turns me off to conversions is how the batteries just look like they are stuffed in there, whatever ones will fit. I would love to see some care taken to the asthetic nature in molding the batteries into the bike to disguise them a bit. Are they lead acid, or gel type? Do they have to be oriented vertically, or can they be angled? Is there any room for using regenerative braking or similar on a bike? Seems like there would be possibilities to use the wheels for this, where a car would be harder to adapt.Did you look at our racks? I think we did a great job fitting in square batteries into a bike... plus the fairings cover it up. I used smaller ones that fit better inside the chassis.... Its not like companies are going to create cells that are "molded" to a form factor. What batteries were you thinking that could be "molded" or "disguised"? I'm all ears. I chose a small form factor for that reason. You should see the other guys trying to fit car batteries in theirs. Don't get started on lithium either, I'm not going to spend $5-10k for a battery pack.... I chose these for cost/form factor and ability to get high voltages and higher speed/efficiency. The batteries are Gel, and they can be oriented as shown in the pictures. SLA's and Gels can be oriented any way you want. Its the flooded batteries you have to orient horizontal. People don't use those in motorcycles because of the danger of spilling.
As far as "room" for regen.... do you know what regen is? It uses the push on the motor when you slow down.... the motor acts like a generator and charges the batteries. I can't do regen with this motor without modification, but we're working on an AC system, and that will have regen capability, in the same form factor as the motor/controller on this bike. You don't put anything else on the wheels to do regen, it has to do with the motor.
My apologies, my thoughts and my words did not work together...common problem with me actually.
My thoughts about the batteries were not a knock on your current (sic) project, but rather just my random thoughts that most conversions I have seen look quite blocky...much of it having to do with car sized batteries as you mentioned. I can well imagine that companies could indeed design a molded battery, it's just that the demand hasn't reached the incredible cost of developement yet.
Again, when I was thinking of regenerative braking, it wasn't having to do with the motor (that was an assumed use actually, I errantly thought most EV's used that)...what I was referring to was turning the wheel itself into a generator of some sort. I don't know what options exist, but the design of a motorcycle tire(ability to reach both sides fairly easily) would seem to lend itself to such a prospect...kind of like turnign the wheel into a big generator, with the ability to disable it to keep it from working against the motor of course.
Let me reiterate that I love your project, I encourage more people to try this stuff, I was just stating my opinion on the asthetic value of the blocky look.
[image: View Post]Rice, on May 23 2008, 12:23 PM, said:
On a related note, you seem very knowlegable in this electric business. Would you or anyone else know how much power it takes to charge an average electric car? A ballpark? Or a possible source to find this info?I'll appreciate any help in finding this out.
The reason I'm asking is I am helping with a case study for a company that owns a patent for a 99.995% efficient power switching technology. The goal is to show savings on the example of electric car that their technology provides vs. regular 80% efficient technology.
Well, just as it is with Gas cars, depends on how far you go... and how much energy you consume.
Lets say your car can get you 50 miles on a charge, safely. Lots of cars cruise between 300-400Wh/mile. Say thats 20000Wh, or 20kWh. Use your local utility company bill for dollars/kWh and see what that works out to be. Thats a good guestimate on cost. If its 10 cents a kWh, then 10*20 is 2 bucks. This doesn't account for charger inefficiencies, but assume that you'll get 70% of the wall power into the batteries.... so you might use 26kwh to charge it back up, and it would cost roughly $2.60.
Motorcycles and cars average below 4 cents a mile... if that helps
[edited for anal retentive Loni... hehe]
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on May 23 2008, 12:56 PM, said:
My apologies, my thoughts and my words did not work together...common problem with me actually.My thoughts about the batteries were not a knock on your current (sic) project, but rather just my random thoughts that most conversions I have seen look quite blocky...much of it having to do with car sized batteries as you mentioned. I can well imagine that companies could indeed design a molded battery, it's just that the demand hasn't reached the incredible cost of developement yet.
Again, when I was thinking of regenerative braking, it wasn't having to do with the motor (that was an assumed use actually, I errantly thought most EV's used that)...what I was referring to was turning the wheel itself into a generator of some sort. I don't know what options exist, but the design of a motorcycle tire(ability to reach both sides fairly easily) would seem to lend itself to such a prospect...kind of like turnign the wheel into a big generator, with the ability to disable it to keep it from working against the motor of course.
Let me reiterate that I love your project, I encourage more people to try this stuff, I was just stating my opinion on the asthetic value of the blocky look.
Oh, ok, following you now. I thought you were referring to this project... I totally agree with you, seems like the rest of the one's I've seen are mostly hack together projects. I put some thought into this to make it look like a bike that someone would want to drive. The cost of making a molded battery wouldn't be that bad, the problem is, its not modular, its for ONE design of bike and would likely not fit in another bike. Lots of development cost for each bike they design. Best idea is to use small (like C or D size) lithium batteries that can be installed in small sub packs.
As far as the generator on the wheel idea... adding any weight to the wheel for magnets would increase the energy needed to accelerate to speed. Adding coils would add weight, and when you put the load (batteries) on the coils from the generator, its going to load the wheel. Imagine this: You have a hand crank generator hooked to nothing... you turn it, it turns freely, because there's no load. Put one light bulb on it, and it may be a little harder to spin. Put enough light bulbs on the generator and you can actually lock the rotor. The gains of adding a generator are negated by physics... it would be better to add another battery or two for more range. Just because lead is heavy, doesn't mean it doesn't get you that much further.....
Great Thread! Keep up the good work and can't wait to see how it turns out.
I've been researching adding solar to my house, with the goal of building an EV to be charged via solar. I think your idea is a big step in the right direction - when you finish the project I, for one, would like to know what the total cost of the build ends up at.
I've been researching adding solar to my house, with the goal of building an EV to be charged via solar. I think your idea is a big step in the right direction - when you finish the project I, for one, would like to know what the total cost of the build ends up at.
[image: View Post]frodus, on May 23 2008, 03:07 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on May 23 2008, 12:56 PM, said:
My apologies, my thoughts and my words did not work together...common problem with me actually.My thoughts about the batteries were not a knock on your current (sic) project, but rather just my random thoughts that most conversions I have seen look quite blocky...much of it having to do with car sized batteries as you mentioned. I can well imagine that companies could indeed design a molded battery, it's just that the demand hasn't reached the incredible cost of developement yet.
Again, when I was thinking of regenerative braking, it wasn't having to do with the motor (that was an assumed use actually, I errantly thought most EV's used that)...what I was referring to was turning the wheel itself into a generator of some sort. I don't know what options exist, but the design of a motorcycle tire(ability to reach both sides fairly easily) would seem to lend itself to such a prospect...kind of like turnign the wheel into a big generator, with the ability to disable it to keep it from working against the motor of course.
Let me reiterate that I love your project, I encourage more people to try this stuff, I was just stating my opinion on the asthetic value of the blocky look.
Oh, ok, following you now. I thought you were referring to this project... I totally agree with you, seems like the rest of the one's I've seen are mostly hack together projects. I put some thought into this to make it look like a bike that someone would want to drive. The cost of making a molded battery wouldn't be that bad, the problem is, its not modular, its for ONE design of bike and would likely not fit in another bike. Lots of development cost for each bike they design. Best idea is to use small (like C or D size) lithium batteries that can be installed in small sub packs.
As far as the generator on the wheel idea... adding any weight to the wheel for magnets would increase the energy needed to accelerate to speed. Adding coils would add weight, and when you put the load (batteries) on the coils from the generator, its going to load the wheel. Imagine this: You have a hand crank generator hooked to nothing... you turn it, it turns freely, because there's no load. Put one light bulb on it, and it may be a little harder to spin. Put enough light bulbs on the generator and you can actually lock the rotor. The gains of adding a generator are negated by physics... it would be better to add another battery or two for more range. Just because lead is heavy, doesn't mean it doesn't get you that much further.....
My thought was to use the wheel generator to create charging power when braking...heck, they could even be used as stopping power the way you explain it....increase the load to it and it increases the braking power(rear wheel only), use an RPM comparison between wheels to ensure you aren't locking the rear wheel of course....like the reverse of a rev limiter. The weight of the magnets in the wheel was a concern to me as well.
this is a remarkable idea and something worth exploring. with increasing demand for fuel and decreasing supply (or maximized supply), alternatives to straight fuel are starting to make a lot of sense.
frankly, if i had a perfectly silent bike that would get me around town on an electric charge, and have some fun zip from the motor, i'd be sold on the idea.
can't wait to see the final working model.
frankly, if i had a perfectly silent bike that would get me around town on an electric charge, and have some fun zip from the motor, i'd be sold on the idea.
can't wait to see the final working model.
[image: View Post]frodus, on May 23 2008, 01:02 PM, said:
Lets say your car can get you 50 miles on a charge, safely. Lots of cars cruise between 300-400Wh/mile. Say thats 2000Wh, or 20kWh. Use your local utility company bill for dollars/kWh and see what that works out to be. Thats a good guestimate on cost. If its 10 cents a kWh, then 10*20 is 2 bucks. This doesn't account for charger inefficiencies, but assume that you'll get 70% of the wall power into the batteries.... so you might use 26kwh to charge it back up, and it would cost roughly $2.60.Motorcycles and cars average below 4 cents a mile... if that helps
I hate to nitpick, but I know you meant 20,000Wh ;) :fing02:
It's also important to note that a car rarely averages as high as 400Wh/mile, especially in city traffic with its stops and starts, but to cruise at 55 mph for an hour requires a fair bit of capacity (e.g. 20 kWh). There are few electric cars with that much storage, but I've heard of a few homebrew EVs with 40+ kWh with lithium-ion. The Tesla Roadster is packing 56 kWh of carefully monitored and liquid-cooled L-Ion and is achieving 200+ miles of real-world range.
Improvements in battery technology are being driven by big investment and scores of manufacturers globally, so I can't wait to see what form factors are available in five years. I'd be happy if I could pack 10 kWh into a L-Ion sportbike with quick-release modular clam-shell packs split along the bike's centerline with highly impact-resistant composite outer shells that mimic lower fairings and numerous software and hardware safety systems to eliminate the possibility of fires or electrocution (picture something like GFCIs throughout the pack to limit voltage, triggered by the tilt sensor, anomalous discharge, or any other significant fault). Then I want to see an EV supersport race series... :idea3:
Top-level racing drives technology, and advances in safe fuel storage and efficiency are two big dividends that have been applied to petrol-powered cars. Similar advances are needed in the EV niche. Since electric drive is already gaining great respect in drag racing circles, it's time for the next big step: wheel-to-wheel endurance racing. One problem is that physics limits storage of electrons with anything near the energy density of gasoline. Even if the theoretical limits of battery storage are reached, gas still wins (but electricity will be be around for as long as the planet. Gas won't...), so in EV racing I imagine numerous pit stops to exchange quick-release packs. Should make for high drama. Wait and see, it will happen in time. :warranty:
you're such a nitpicker. Haha, we both are. You question my math, I question your welds ;) I missed a 0, but did the calcs right :)
and as far as the 300-400.... thats normal for the cars I've seen on evalbum... for rough estimates on Wh needed, you should use a Wh that is higher than what you would cruise at 35mph. That way, no matter what the driving (55, or 25) your range at 55 is what you wanted it to be, and even further at 25mph.... Its just a good gauge/estimate on range. You won't be driving a car/motorcycle all the time at 25-25mph. 300-400 is a good estimate for DC motor cars... Ac is different :) as you know. I was taking worst case scenerio.
The bike we're building up is likely going to be 100-125Wh/mile with a 2600Wh pack (80% DOD is 2080Wh) and thats with new batteries. These are lightly used and should get me 15-20 miles. We'll see this week :)
and as far as the 300-400.... thats normal for the cars I've seen on evalbum... for rough estimates on Wh needed, you should use a Wh that is higher than what you would cruise at 35mph. That way, no matter what the driving (55, or 25) your range at 55 is what you wanted it to be, and even further at 25mph.... Its just a good gauge/estimate on range. You won't be driving a car/motorcycle all the time at 25-25mph. 300-400 is a good estimate for DC motor cars... Ac is different :) as you know. I was taking worst case scenerio.
The bike we're building up is likely going to be 100-125Wh/mile with a 2600Wh pack (80% DOD is 2080Wh) and thats with new batteries. These are lightly used and should get me 15-20 miles. We'll see this week :)
[image: View Post]frodus, on May 27 2008, 11:24 AM, said:
I question your welds ;)So do I. We are so screwed.... :unsure: :biggrin:
[image: View Post]magellan, on May 27 2008, 01:10 PM, said:
[image: View Post]frodus, on May 27 2008, 11:24 AM, said:
I question your welds ;)So do I. We are so screwed.... :unsure: :biggrin:
good thing the motor/batteries/controller/contactor/motorcycle all ended up being free :) Only thing I paid for on that bike.... was the PDA for the gauges, cable/crimp connectors for the batteries, headlights and some mounting bolts :) If something happened, my losses are low ... haha.
I have been following this post for a while now, interesting post for sure, and no I am not appalled by the use of a vfr frame and plastics - that is cool. Never much cared for the look of the old vfrs of the 80's anyway. They where race bikes back then, but most bikes looked butt ugly in the 80's.
I wonder how well that motor can stand up to weather condtions, rain, salt air and stuff like that? I think it will handle better if you can get batteries up front in front of the motor. Keep posting
I wonder how well that motor can stand up to weather condtions, rain, salt air and stuff like that? I think it will handle better if you can get batteries up front in front of the motor. Keep posting
[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on May 27 2008, 04:42 PM, said:
I have been following this post for a while now, interesting post for sure, and no I am not appalled by the use of a vfr frame and plastics - that is cool. Never much cared for the look of the old vfrs of the 80's anyway. They where race bikes back then, but most bikes looked butt ugly in the 80's.I wonder how well that motor can stand up to weather condtions, rain, salt air and stuff like that? I think it will handle better if you can get batteries up front in front of the motor. Keep posting
We tried to keep the COG as far forward of the motor... to kind of encase it inside. It is air cooled, so it needs room to breath...
The motors are fine with water, just not submerged. As long as you keep it clean (spray off once in a while and clean off) they should last a while. I'll be avoiding rain when I can, and it won't be driven in the snow. Its a summer bike.
So, she's actually running now. Click the pic below for the blog entry and some pictures. I posted a video, but its dark. I'll get more tonight and throw it up on youtube. I'll do a walkaround as well. Looks like frankenbike, but it'l be cleaned up. We just wanted to get it together so we can begin testing.
Accel is slow, because I chose a 13 tooth front, stock rear... to start. I'll be changing to 11tooth tonight to see how it helps. We might go larger sprocket to help even more. It JUST got running, and there's lots of work to be done (and it looks like frankenstein without the fairings).
[image: Posted Image]
Accel is slow, because I chose a 13 tooth front, stock rear... to start. I'll be changing to 11tooth tonight to see how it helps. We might go larger sprocket to help even more. It JUST got running, and there's lots of work to be done (and it looks like frankenstein without the fairings).
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/6-17-08/normal_IMG_1871.jpg){kind=link}
I had missed this thread until now.
Congratulations on both what you have done & that it now runs.
Global warming as a consequence of burning fossil fuel is undeniable as far as I am concerned. I am amazed by the prevalence of naysayers in the US.
There are three fascinating projects on this board. Toro's supercharger, Redmarque's Hossack front end & trellis frame and this one. I salute the three of you.
I have pondered why we can't have a domestic photovoltaic water splitter to generate our own hydrogen to fuel our cooking/heating and hydrogen fuel-celled vehicles.
Congratulations on both what you have done & that it now runs.
Global warming as a consequence of burning fossil fuel is undeniable as far as I am concerned. I am amazed by the prevalence of naysayers in the US.
There are three fascinating projects on this board. Toro's supercharger, Redmarque's Hossack front end & trellis frame and this one. I salute the three of you.
I have pondered why we can't have a domestic photovoltaic water splitter to generate our own hydrogen to fuel our cooking/heating and hydrogen fuel-celled vehicles.
Huge congradulations to all involved in this project. I'm chomping at the bit to build my own EV. Loni and I had some chats last year at the VRF event down there in Vancover. Will be awesome to get more of these going.
Keep it up and let us know what you learn from it.
(What is the weight of your current pack and the 144v one your looking at?)
Gene
Keep it up and let us know what you learn from it.
(What is the weight of your current pack and the 144v one your looking at?)
Gene
Congratulations on such a great result! Looking forward to reading about further refinement of the project.
[image: View Post]skeezmour, on Jun 20 2008, 05:51 PM, said:
(What is the weight of your current pack and the 144v one your looking at?)Gene
the 144V pack and the current pack are the same. I just broke it in half, and put the 2 72V packs in parallel.
weight is 160lbs.
Well, its been a fun week. We got it running Tuesday and spent all week trying her out, charging it and running around. Friday I went to the Ducati Dealership near the shop and showed it off, let them take it for a ride, they enjoyed it. There were a couple girls there and they were speachless..... its going to be a geekgirl magnet.
Anyway, I posted some video on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/frodus17
The accel sucks right now because the gearing is low (4:1) and the batteries are used and pretty tired. She scoots pretty well with a full charge.
We're deciding on the next batteries we want to buy (since we have to get a complete new pack to replace the free used bats we got for testing). We'll order a new sprocket from sprocket specialists once we know what kind of power the new pack can put out.
Its ongoing, so don't assume this is all she's got... This video was taken Wednesday. Thursday the batteries were charged, and there was a NOTICEABLE improvement. Then we charged them all the way Thursday night, and there was noticeable improvement again... then we tweaked some settings and there was more improvement. With a higher gear ratio like 5 or 6:1 we'll get more acceleration, less top speed. I'm find topping out around 70, as most of my driving is 50mph or below.
Anyway, I posted some video on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/frodus17
The accel sucks right now because the gearing is low (4:1) and the batteries are used and pretty tired. She scoots pretty well with a full charge.
We're deciding on the next batteries we want to buy (since we have to get a complete new pack to replace the free used bats we got for testing). We'll order a new sprocket from sprocket specialists once we know what kind of power the new pack can put out.
Its ongoing, so don't assume this is all she's got... This video was taken Wednesday. Thursday the batteries were charged, and there was a NOTICEABLE improvement. Then we charged them all the way Thursday night, and there was noticeable improvement again... then we tweaked some settings and there was more improvement. With a higher gear ratio like 5 or 6:1 we'll get more acceleration, less top speed. I'm find topping out around 70, as most of my driving is 50mph or below.
So last night, I dropped by Synkromotive to help Ives with some testing. We tried logging with the DataQ again, and it it kept failing, no matter what setting we used. Nothing seemed to help. We unhooked it, and I�m going to contact Customer Service. We need something to compare our measured values to.
We spent the rest of the evening getting the Old Tachometer (originally fed off the engine spark), to display the current on the motor side. Its pretty cool, as you give it gas, it displays current at a 50A per 1000rpm resolution. So 200A is 4krpm. I�ll likely print something to display actual A, but its great for testing. Its just a PWM signal to the original Tach line. I�m totally cool with keeping the stock look, infact, I�m HOPING to keep as much of a stock look as possible. Now I need to order a PB-6 to keep my original throttle (and kill switch), order a contactor and get the lights working.
David got the bike up to 60mph� wow! It was fresh off the pack, and pulled 300A or so up to 30mph, and then it started to drop� it was roughly half of that at 55mph. Better gearing should help this, as less torque is needed. We�ll keep gearing what it is for now because we�re testing something new every day. I thought it felt kind of like a 250cc, but David said it actually feels more like a 500cc. I think the batteries are waking up a little too, so switching to new ones in the future, with higher current draw is definately going to help. This controller rocks!
I got a jacket the other day, and am going to pick up a Helmet this weekend. Insurance won�t be that hard (My agent has been really cool about helping me). Registering it should be ok, but I�ll have to have someone make sure they see it doesn�t have an exhaust/was converted to electric so I can be excluded from DEQ. I�m also going to get a Motorcycle instruction permit� and keep my riding limited to daytime, with a friend. Just need to take the Knowledge test.
Now I want another VFR... my friend might let me take his for a spin (another VFR700F).. once I get more experience.
We spent the rest of the evening getting the Old Tachometer (originally fed off the engine spark), to display the current on the motor side. Its pretty cool, as you give it gas, it displays current at a 50A per 1000rpm resolution. So 200A is 4krpm. I�ll likely print something to display actual A, but its great for testing. Its just a PWM signal to the original Tach line. I�m totally cool with keeping the stock look, infact, I�m HOPING to keep as much of a stock look as possible. Now I need to order a PB-6 to keep my original throttle (and kill switch), order a contactor and get the lights working.
David got the bike up to 60mph� wow! It was fresh off the pack, and pulled 300A or so up to 30mph, and then it started to drop� it was roughly half of that at 55mph. Better gearing should help this, as less torque is needed. We�ll keep gearing what it is for now because we�re testing something new every day. I thought it felt kind of like a 250cc, but David said it actually feels more like a 500cc. I think the batteries are waking up a little too, so switching to new ones in the future, with higher current draw is definately going to help. This controller rocks!
I got a jacket the other day, and am going to pick up a Helmet this weekend. Insurance won�t be that hard (My agent has been really cool about helping me). Registering it should be ok, but I�ll have to have someone make sure they see it doesn�t have an exhaust/was converted to electric so I can be excluded from DEQ. I�m also going to get a Motorcycle instruction permit� and keep my riding limited to daytime, with a friend. Just need to take the Knowledge test.
Now I want another VFR... my friend might let me take his for a spin (another VFR700F).. once I get more experience.
very cool to see it running, how is the braking without(I assume) and load braking from the motor?
This is a general EV question I guess....
Why don't they use gear boxes to address the gearing issue? It would seem a better use of power, and would allow all available power to be channelled to turning the wheel. Anyone know the answer?
This is a general EV question I guess....
Why don't they use gear boxes to address the gearing issue? It would seem a better use of power, and would allow all available power to be channelled to turning the wheel. Anyone know the answer?
Its not too bad without the engine braking. You can't downshift, but its doable. The v2.0 will be AC and have regen, so I'll get that back. This is just a test rig for now, with options to go AC and Lithium.
As far as gearboxes, I can get to 60-70mph on one gear, 100% torque at 0rpm, and a fairly flat torque curve to 40mph, then it starts to fall off, as speed increases. In a car, you need the gearing for the electric motor. With a motorcycle, its not needed as much. I could do something like that for gearing, but thats just adding losses. Each mechanical "link" and electrical "link" adds inefficiency. Add that up, and you get less range. I won't be going much over 55 most of my driving, so I'll be fine. Torque drops off at higher RPM, but not very steeply. One gear reduction, no clutch, flat power curve (unlike an ICE which peaks at 4-6krpm).
Comparing electric to ICE is apples and oranges.
Consider that 1st gear reduction from the engine is 16.26:1 with the stock vfr700f (roughly) transmission/engine. My ratio is 4:1 right now. 4000rpm on my motor is 1000rpm on the wheel, and about 70mph (by calculations). 5000 is 89mph. In an ICE, at 5000rpm on the engine in 6th gear, you'd be going ~60mph.
Stock VFR:
Transmission:
Six-speed, constant mesh, wet clutch
Primary reduction: 2.031
Final reduction: 2.813
Gear Ratios:
1st: 2.846
2nd: 2.063
3rd: 1.632
4th: 1.333
5th: 1.154
6th: 1.036
6th gear final = 5.91:1
1st gear final = 16.26:1
Me:
Final Reduction 4:1
As far as gearboxes, I can get to 60-70mph on one gear, 100% torque at 0rpm, and a fairly flat torque curve to 40mph, then it starts to fall off, as speed increases. In a car, you need the gearing for the electric motor. With a motorcycle, its not needed as much. I could do something like that for gearing, but thats just adding losses. Each mechanical "link" and electrical "link" adds inefficiency. Add that up, and you get less range. I won't be going much over 55 most of my driving, so I'll be fine. Torque drops off at higher RPM, but not very steeply. One gear reduction, no clutch, flat power curve (unlike an ICE which peaks at 4-6krpm).
Comparing electric to ICE is apples and oranges.
Consider that 1st gear reduction from the engine is 16.26:1 with the stock vfr700f (roughly) transmission/engine. My ratio is 4:1 right now. 4000rpm on my motor is 1000rpm on the wheel, and about 70mph (by calculations). 5000 is 89mph. In an ICE, at 5000rpm on the engine in 6th gear, you'd be going ~60mph.
Stock VFR:
Transmission:
Six-speed, constant mesh, wet clutch
Primary reduction: 2.031
Final reduction: 2.813
Gear Ratios:
1st: 2.846
2nd: 2.063
3rd: 1.632
4th: 1.333
5th: 1.154
6th: 1.036
6th gear final = 5.91:1
1st gear final = 16.26:1
Me:
Final Reduction 4:1
So, I decided to work my butt off this last weekend, and prepare the electric motorcycle for its first official public apearance. the OEVA was sponsoring an EV Awareness day downtown Portland on Saturday. I put everything together, cleaned it up, and went down there. Had a blast. It was one of the more popular vehicles there, because it was the only motorcycle, and the only electric sportbike that I know of in this area!
Read the blog article for details and some pictures!
Just thought everyone would like to see the finished bike. Still have to get it registered and get the lights working, but thats pretty easy stuff. Thanks everyone for the support, its been a long time coming, but the payoff has been great.
Read the blog article for details and some pictures!
Just thought everyone would like to see the finished bike. Still have to get it registered and get the lights working, but thats pretty easy stuff. Thanks everyone for the support, its been a long time coming, but the payoff has been great.
[image: View Post]frodus, on Jun 25 2008, 06:39 PM, said:
Its not too bad without the engine braking. You can't downshift, but its doable. The v2.0 will be AC and have regen, so I'll get that back. This is just a test rig for now, with options to go AC and Lithium.As far as gearboxes, I can get to 60-70mph on one gear, 100% torque at 0rpm, and a fairly flat torque curve to 40mph, then it starts to fall off, as speed increases. In a car, you need the gearing for the electric motor. With a motorcycle, its not needed as much. I could do something like that for gearing, but thats just adding losses. Each mechanical "link" and electrical "link" adds inefficiency. Add that up, and you get less range. I won't be going much over 55 most of my driving, so I'll be fine. Torque drops off at higher RPM, but not very steeply. One gear reduction, no clutch, flat power curve (unlike an ICE which peaks at 4-6krpm).
Comparing electric to ICE is apples and oranges.
Consider that 1st gear reduction from the engine is 16.26:1 with the stock vfr700f (roughly) transmission/engine. My ratio is 4:1 right now. 4000rpm on my motor is 1000rpm on the wheel, and about 70mph (by calculations). 5000 is 89mph. In an ICE, at 5000rpm on the engine in 6th gear, you'd be going ~60mph.
Stock VFR:
Transmission:
Six-speed, constant mesh, wet clutch
Primary reduction: 2.031
Final reduction: 2.813
Gear Ratios:
1st: 2.846
2nd: 2.063
3rd: 1.632
4th: 1.333
5th: 1.154
6th: 1.036
6th gear final = 5.91:1
1st gear final = 16.26:1
Me:
Final Reduction 4:1
If RPM's mean more amp draw, wouldn't the bike be much easier on the batteries if you had say a two speed gear box? The weight wouldn't be much higher, and the extra mechanical link shouldn't account for much lost power....you certainly aren't at maximum effeciency as it is.
I think it look great, and the Portland show must have been fun. I keep watching the blog to see what is changing next. Good luck getting it registered etc!
I'm going to change the gearing, I don't need the top speed, I need it to run efficient at lower speeds. Plus a 2-speed is very expensive.
Registering it is the next hurdle, but I've got it titled without an engine, and they said as long as its frame is based on a production vehicle, its no problem. They have to register it as an EV, and I might get discounts from insurance and the state for being emission free. Talked to my insurance person the other day.... shouldn't be too long!
Thanks for reading the blog, leave a comment sometime.
Registering it is the next hurdle, but I've got it titled without an engine, and they said as long as its frame is based on a production vehicle, its no problem. They have to register it as an EV, and I might get discounts from insurance and the state for being emission free. Talked to my insurance person the other day.... shouldn't be too long!
Thanks for reading the blog, leave a comment sometime.
[image: View Post]frodus, on Jun 25 2008, 03:09 PM, said:
...Registering it should be ok, but I�ll have to have someone make sure they see it doesn�t have an exhaust/was converted to electric so I can be excluded from DEQ. ...Motorcycle are excempt from DEQ testing in the Oregon. The only reason you would need to take a bike down to a DEQ testing center is to get the VIN inspected, but you can have that done at the DMV when you're getting plates for it.
Excellent results so far, congrats on everything you've achieved so far and hope to see the production models available soon! :biggrin:
[image: View Post]Darth Bling, on Jul 7 2008, 12:24 PM, said:
[image: View Post]frodus, on Jun 25 2008, 03:09 PM, said:
...Registering it should be ok, but I�ll have to have someone make sure they see it doesn�t have an exhaust/was converted to electric so I can be excluded from DEQ. ...Motorcycle are excempt from DEQ testing in the Oregon. The only reason you would need to take a bike down to a DEQ testing center is to get the VIN inspected, but you can have that done at the DMV when you're getting plates for it.
Oh yeah! I just realized that. I still want to get EV cert, as it'l change insurance... since its no longer a 700cc.
The VIN is inspected already, nothing else is really needed.
Here's a video that my friend Jim and I shot earlier this week. We have all the fairings on it, and pretty much have the motor mount and battery pack design nailed. We'll be cleaning up the wiring, making some small changes to the mounts, and upgrading the rear sprocket to a 60tooth (ordered 7-18-08).
Right now, I'm working on the custom charging system that will be installed as well as the 12V aux system for lighting.
Real nice shot at the beginning and end of Jim hitting 50mph.
FANTASTIC! And the work looks top rate!
Hows about we start a collection to buy some real batteries. You should put a PayPal link on your site and ask for a few $$ to keep the project going. Lots or folks like to be involved with inquisitive minds such as yours...........
Good Luck!
Hows about we start a collection to buy some real batteries. You should put a PayPal link on your site and ask for a few $$ to keep the project going. Lots or folks like to be involved with inquisitive minds such as yours...........
Good Luck!
Have you folks seen this..
"How to build an Electric Motorcycle"
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-bui...ric-motorcycle/
"How to build an Electric Motorcycle"
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-bui...ric-motorcycle/
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.mustangmods.com/data/10900/brilliant.jpg){kind=link}
:fing02: Nice to see people thinking outside the box. Can you call it an EVFR? Or would you even want to, that is the question.
Cool!
And very timely too as my wife said that she wanted her next bike to be electric. I guess that may be getting closer to reality.
And very timely too as my wife said that she wanted her next bike to be electric. I guess that may be getting closer to reality.
Good job guys!
Can't wait for the long term review with the larger sprocket and also the range...
Can't wait for the long term review with the larger sprocket and also the range...
[image: View Post]tuck, on Jul 20 2008, 02:12 AM, said:
:fing02: Nice to see people thinking outside the box. Can you call it an EVFR? Or would you even want to, that is the question.it actually is called the eVFR.... www.evfr.net :) EV/ VFR goes together quite nicely.
[image: View Post]rbertalotto, on Jul 19 2008, 04:55 PM, said:
FANTASTIC! And the work looks top rate!Hows about we start a collection to buy some real batteries. You should put a PayPal link on your site and ask for a few $$ to keep the project going. Lots or folks like to be involved with inquisitive minds such as yours...........
Good Luck!
I'm getting everything legal and running while saving some extra cash for batteries.
I could set something up... might not be a bad idea. every little bit helps.
Anyone hear about Isle Of Mann TT races? Well someone set up a zero carbon IOM TT races called TTxGP... the founder emailed me and wants to talk....
so, there may be more investment opportunity if it goes that far.
Seriously man, awesome project! :fing02:
Friggin fantastic :fing02: A concept put into practice and successful too!!!! Kudo's to you and your team :fing02:
Great project and love the ingenuity, especially using all of the off the shelf components. Any chance you might think about selling a kit once the design is final?
[image: View Post]frodus, on Jul 20 2008, 05:24 PM, said:
Anyone hear about Isle Of Mann TT races? Well someone set up a zero carbon IOM TT races called TTxGP... the founder emailed me and wants to talk....so, there may be more investment opportunity if it goes that far.
I would be honored to race your bike in the TTxGP at the Isle Of Mann ! :fing02:
A lighter rider maybe a better route to take though. :rolleyes:
Great project, I am late to the thread as usual, and am happy you recycled the old VFR and did not send it to the crusher. People that are not amused should wake up and realize that we are going to be in a different world now, novel ideas and home inventors may offer solutions that rigid and large corporations may be slow to develop.
This is interesting since I rode an electric scooter for the first time last week. Very light, very quiet, a little slow, but OK for puttering around town. The plus is that the city allows you to lock them up beside bicycles so you do not need to pay for parking.
A few questions:
Do you think you need to stick with a frame size that is similar to get decent motor size, and battery packs? Would a Ninja 250 or 500 be too small? I would think the light weight would help battery life, but the trade off is fewer of them.
You may have covered this earlier, but are people giving up on laptop batteries as power sources? I saw a sportscar with laptop batteries on TV and it seemed awkward, but it was easy to swap bad cells in and out.
Would small solar panels offer any resonable charging capabilites? Right now the small 2X2" solar lights are on sale ar garden shops, and you can likely stick about 30 of them on the cowling, dash, and top of the tank. Further, you could get a larger flexible solar panel and replace the stock windscreen.
This is interesting since I rode an electric scooter for the first time last week. Very light, very quiet, a little slow, but OK for puttering around town. The plus is that the city allows you to lock them up beside bicycles so you do not need to pay for parking.
A few questions:
Do you think you need to stick with a frame size that is similar to get decent motor size, and battery packs? Would a Ninja 250 or 500 be too small? I would think the light weight would help battery life, but the trade off is fewer of them.
You may have covered this earlier, but are people giving up on laptop batteries as power sources? I saw a sportscar with laptop batteries on TV and it seemed awkward, but it was easy to swap bad cells in and out.
Would small solar panels offer any resonable charging capabilites? Right now the small 2X2" solar lights are on sale ar garden shops, and you can likely stick about 30 of them on the cowling, dash, and top of the tank. Further, you could get a larger flexible solar panel and replace the stock windscreen.
Awesome project!! If you put the technical specs onto Wikipedia, I think you should put a paypal donations link on your webpage -- I'm guessing some people will donate as you are furthering the knowledge base around the design and engineering of an interesting electrical vehicle.
Keep up the good work!
Keep up the good work!
Awesome project! Good luck with everything. You might want to edit out the video at 0:53 and 3:02. ;p
[image: View Post]Snafu, on Aug 4 2008, 07:31 PM, said:
Awesome project! Good luck with everything. You might want to edit out the video at 0:53 and 3:02. ;pLOL!! I was hoping someone would notice that. Since it's an empty industrial street in the evening, we do our trial runs then. The bike isn't registered or insured yet (this week probably), so...ahem, doing that thing to which you refer is the least of our worries. We had to see how fast it would go, right?? :wheel: :biggrin:
[image: View Post]rbertalotto, on Jul 19 2008, 06:40 PM, said:
Have you folks seen this.."How to build an Electric Motorcycle"
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-bui...ric-motorcycle/
I saw that today when looking for other stuff, had to come back and post in this thread.
To the mods:
Thanks for putting this in Featured Modifications...
It was posted in yesterday, and still went to the bottom of the forum.
Thanks for putting this in Featured Modifications...
It was posted in yesterday, and still went to the bottom of the forum.
A fresh post always moves the thread to the front page unless 20 other threads had post after yours! :mellow:
Not too worry Frodus, same deal with mine. Fresh post moves the topic to the top of the recent threads, but in the Featured Mods forum it stays stuck in place. Dunno why.
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Aug 15 2008, 04:54 PM, said:
Not too worry Frodus, same deal with mine. Fresh post moves the topic to the top of the recent threads, but in the Featured Mods forum it stays stuck in place. Dunno why.thats why... I was wondering why it dropped.
Thanks for the help seb!
Any new updates on this great project??? :unsure:
yeah no doubt, frodus had mentioned something about fitting that e-vfr with some cobalt racing bodywork, and im itching to see how that bike will look when that work is done....
[image: View Post]Chris71mach1, on Oct 6 2008, 09:23 PM, said:
yeah no doubt, frodus had mentioned something about fitting that e-vfr with some cobalt racing bodywork, and im itching to see how that bike will look when that work is done....well, I wanted to put a cobalt racing tail on there, but its been 5 months since I paid, I've called a few times... nothing. Not even an email.
FINALLY got the tail:
[image: Posted Image]
Now I gotta get the holes drilled on the front upper and lowers, get all the hardware mounted, cut holes for the headlights (going dual) and get her painted. While thats being done, think I'll be able to fit the rest of my new batteries inside.
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://evfr.net/coppermine/albums/fairings/normal_IMG_2056.jpg){kind=link}
Now I gotta get the holes drilled on the front upper and lowers, get all the hardware mounted, cut holes for the headlights (going dual) and get her painted. While thats being done, think I'll be able to fit the rest of my new batteries inside.
so a little over a year after I got my bike running, the TTXGP race has completed.....
I can't wait to see what happens from now on.
I can't wait to see what happens from now on.
Hi Frodus, I am torn,when you said super low mileage bike I envisioned a complete restoration of a classic bike,but since you didnt go in that
direction, I guess then, this is second best. If I understand your project correctly,its an electric motorcycle only,and not a hybrid?
Would it be possible to mount a small gas engine plus all the electrical equip on a cycle to make it a true hybrid, or isn't there enough space to do it? Looking forward to your write up after you have had it out for a few test runs. eddie
direction, I guess then, this is second best. If I understand your project correctly,its an electric motorcycle only,and not a hybrid?
Would it be possible to mount a small gas engine plus all the electrical equip on a cycle to make it a true hybrid, or isn't there enough space to do it? Looking forward to your write up after you have had it out for a few test runs. eddie
[image: View Post]onedowneaster, on Jun 12 2009, 01:02 PM, said:
Hi Frodus, I am torn,when you said super low mileage bike I envisioned a complete restoration of a classic bike,but since you didnt go in thatdirection, I guess then, this is second best. If I understand your project correctly,its an electric motorcycle only,and not a hybrid?
Would it be possible to mount a small gas engine plus all the electrical equip on a cycle to make it a true hybrid, or isn't there enough space to do it? Looking forward to your write up after you have had it out for a few test runs. eddie
I don't want to run on gas at all.... thats the point.
A hybrid is possible, but there's no room for the batteries I'm using, I'd have to go with much more expensive batteries with higher energy density.
I know, i felt bad tearing into the bike, it's still in great shape, its just getting some new fairings and paint... it'l look like the original without the engine.
[image: View Post]frodus, on Jun 12 2009, 10:00 AM, said:
so a little over a year after I got my bike running, the TTXGP race has completed.....I can't wait to see what happens from now on.
Your wish is the FIM's command!
http://www.superbike...Jun/090624a.htm
So, its been a REALLY long time since I've posted pictures of my project.... It's been a busy year. Worked with the Motoczysz team for a while, started consulting, imported 25k of batteries and then joined forces with EVComponents.....
Now I THINK I finally have most of the parts I need to finish the bike. I don't have the Synkromotive controller yet due to delays in production, but if its a problem, I'll just build a Zilla 1k LV at EVC. I don't have a BMS either, but I'm working with Elithion on some BMS stuff for us moto guys, and I'll be testing his prototype. Right now I'm planning on the Lithiumate system with Cylindrical cell boards.
So what changed on my bike? Well, almost everything is changing. I decided to make the leap from Lead to Lithium before even installing the Panasonic SLA's. It wasn't enough of a gain, and would be much better long term to go Lifepo4. The fairings are no longer the stock plastic, they're all fiberglass.... Including the gas tank.
So whats going in the bike?:
Stuff I don't have yet:
Stuff I need to do:
So here are some pictures:
Front of bike
[image: Posted Image]
[image: Posted Image]
Rear of bike
[image: Posted Image]
[image: Posted Image]
Batteries
[image: Posted Image]
DC-DC converter
[image: Posted Image]
Fiberglass tank
[image: Posted Image]
bottom of tank
[image: Posted Image]
Charger
[image: Posted Image]
headlights
[image: Posted Image]
[image: Posted Image]
Handlebar mount
[image: Posted Image]
So thats about it for now, gotta check in on the controller and BMS. Talked to a welder the other day, and they said "we'll trick that bike out...." so I'm hoping the motor mount and battery box turn out good
Now I THINK I finally have most of the parts I need to finish the bike. I don't have the Synkromotive controller yet due to delays in production, but if its a problem, I'll just build a Zilla 1k LV at EVC. I don't have a BMS either, but I'm working with Elithion on some BMS stuff for us moto guys, and I'll be testing his prototype. Right now I'm planning on the Lithiumate system with Cylindrical cell boards.
So what changed on my bike? Well, almost everything is changing. I decided to make the leap from Lead to Lithium before even installing the Panasonic SLA's. It wasn't enough of a gain, and would be much better long term to go Lifepo4. The fairings are no longer the stock plastic, they're all fiberglass.... Including the gas tank.
So whats going in the bike?:
- 192qty 10Ah 38120S Headway cells in 32s6p for 102V 60Ah
- Fiberglass one-piece tail fairing, Solo seat cowl, front fender, race upper fairing, lower side fairings, inner fairings and gas tank.
- taller windscreen to help cut back on aero drag a little
- K99-4003 72V 6.7" motor from Advanced DC
- delta-q 1000W 96V charger setup for 32 cells (116.8V cutoff)
- Vicor 100Vin 12Vout 200W DC-DC converter (works down to like 80Vinput)
- Inertia switch in case of a wreck
- EV200 contactor
- LSL MIG Dual headlights
- Sprocket Specialists 60tooth anodized rear sprocket
- Bar mounts so I can use a sportbike/superbike style handlebar
Stuff I don't have yet:
- Controller (Want to use Synkromotive, might have to get a Zilla)
- BMS (I'll likely use a full Elithion Lithiumate BMS)
Stuff I need to do:
- Fabricate new motor mount (the old one could be improved and simplified)
- Fabricate a battery box for the Headway cells
- Fabricate headlight mount and cut holes into upper fairing
- fabricate charger mount
- mount controller/contactor/DC-DC etc inside gas tank
- rebuild front forks (they're leaking)
- replace wheel bearings (since its easier now than later)
- Get fairings sanded and painted
- get wheels/subframe/gauge mounts/panel mounts powdercoated (this could wait until after bike is done)
- Talk with Elithion about their BMS and see if I can still integrate an LCD
So here are some pictures:
Front of bike
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/10-3-09/normal_IMG_2227.jpg){kind=link}
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/10-3-09/normal_IMG_2238.jpg){kind=link}
Rear of bike
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/10-3-09/normal_IMG_2228.jpg){kind=link}
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/10-3-09/normal_IMG_2243.jpg){kind=link}
Batteries
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/10-3-09/normal_IMG_2253.jpg){kind=link}
DC-DC converter
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/10-3-09/normal_IMG_2225.jpg){kind=link}
Fiberglass tank
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/10-3-09/normal_IMG_2233.jpg){kind=link}
bottom of tank
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/10-3-09/normal_IMG_2234.jpg){kind=link}
Charger
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/10-3-09/normal_IMG_2229.jpg){kind=link}
headlights
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/10-3-09/normal_IMG_2248.jpg){kind=link}
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/10-3-09/normal_IMG_2250.jpg){kind=link}
Handlebar mount
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/10-3-09/normal_IMG_2246.jpg){kind=link}
So thats about it for now, gotta check in on the controller and BMS. Talked to a welder the other day, and they said "we'll trick that bike out...." so I'm hoping the motor mount and battery box turn out good
thank you for keeping us "current" :biggrin:
Very cool, the pics look good. All that stuff you wrote before the pics might as well be Latin to me. :blink:
I did just get last month's electric bike Motorcyclist mag, nice write up on the race and the Motoczysz bike. :fing02:
I did just get last month's electric bike Motorcyclist mag, nice write up on the race and the Motoczysz bike. :fing02:
What's the deal w/ the gas tank? Where did it come from/who made it & why bother with a bottom half since it's not really a tank? Putting coolant in there for a liquid cooled motor?
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Oct 6 2009, 11:16 AM, said:
What's the deal w/ the gas tank? Where did it come from/who made it & why bother with a bottom half since it's not really a tank? Putting coolant in there for a liquid cooled motor?VFRChuck makes fiberglass tanks for the VFR700/750 series, without fuel petcock. I got a "half made" tank. Its unfinished.
The reason for the tank is to house the electronics. I had to cut up the old metal tank (and it was rusted). It had sharp edges and nowhere to mount things inside. This way, the two halves kinda go together pretty tight and allow a seal to be put around the edge to keep water/dirt/bugs out. I might put a hinge on it so it flips up.
Well I bet you are pretty excited. One thing for sure is you should be commended for being an early adopter of this new tech. I hope I end up eating my hat...
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Yeah, that's the other thing, thanks for bringing it up. I'm an early adopter, so yeah, I might pay more for it, but I'm supporting the technology and investing in it. Just like Tesla Roadster/Model S/Leaf/Volt people are.
100 years ago, motorcycles were a luxury that people said "wow, $XXXX for that thing? Why not just walk or take a carriage".... and now people are saying "wow, $19k for that thing? Why not just buy a Panigale!" Different tech, but same idea.
Prices are coming down, tech is getting better and people's use for vehicles changes as energy/gas becomes more expensive.
frodusYeah, that's the other thing, thanks for bringing it up. I'm an early adopter, so yeah, I might pay more for it, but I'm supporting the technology and investing in it. Just like Tesla Roadster/Model S/Leaf/Volt people are.
100 years ago, motorcycles were a luxury that people said "wow, $XXXX for that thing? Why not just walk or take a carriage".... and now people are saying "wow, $19k for that thing? Why not just buy a Panigale!" Different tech, but same idea.
Prices are coming down, tech is getting better and people's use for vehicles changes as energy/gas becomes more expensive.
Have you gotten your e-bike yet?
Copy/Paste from another forum I'm on:
So many of you know that I sold my eVFR and decided to get a Brammo Empulse R (backstory here: http://blog.evfr.net/?p=514).
After about a couple months of waiting, Brian at Brammo called and said he was coming to the Portland area with my bike and would be there that weekend. Talk about excited. I barely slept. It felt like being a kid on Christmas! He sent a teaser pic of the bike sitting at Brammo HQ:
[image: normal_empulse-10.jpg]
March 2nd, 2013
Brian arrived about 8:00 AM Saturday morning in one of Brammo's Vans:
[image: normal_empulse-9.jpg]
[image: normal_empulse-3.jpg]
[image: normal_empulse-4.jpg]
[image: normal_empulse-8.jpg]
Before I took it out, he gave me a very detailed overview of the bike, gave me my bag-o-goodies, showed me the new charger (with Brammo Logo) and handed me the keys. I took it around the block and when I pulled up next to the van I had this huge grin on my face, and he and his Father in law both laughed.... the EV grin was obvious.
I rode up to this breakfast place near me so we could grab a bite to eat and chat. The ride over was a blast. All I can say is WOW. IMHO, this thing outperforms my SV650 in my opinion (butt dyno). Power shifting through the gears is easy and I only use the clutch to downshift. As a beginner, it was simple and easy to get on the bike and start riding. I felt completely comfortable. It rides smoothly, shifting is natural and benefits are more clear. I can keep the motor RPM's wherever I want them (like in the 5000rpm high efficiency range). I could haul a passenger and get the same performance by wisely choosing my gear and If I wanted, I could just accelerate like a bat outta hell in first gear up to about 45-50mph.
Breakfast was fun.... we chatted about the bike, racing, friends we have in common and their plans for expanding the dealer/service network. I hadn't seen Brian since the TTXGP race in Portland last year, so it was nice to catch up. We both left from breakfast and I went out for a little spin, called my friend and took it on the backroads for about 30 miles.
It was a very pleasant experience from a buyers point of view. It met and exceeded my expectations.
A few more pics:
[image: normal_empulse-7.jpg]
[image: normal_empulse-1.jpg]
[image: normal_empulse-6.jpg]
[image: normal_empulse-2.jpg]
[image: normal_empulse-5.jpg]
After meeting up with Brian, I called my buddy and rode about 40 miles on some twisties nearby my house. It was such a blast. The bike takes off when I want it to, the transmission is easy to power shift (Brian showed me how best to do that). I only really use the clutch to downshift. It was nice not having the loud hum of the exhaust right behind me. I could hear my buddy behind me in my old SV650 (He bought it).
March 3, 2013
Sunday I only got about 10 miles before it started to rain (no raingear yet)... then I had a Portland Timbers soccer game to go to.... so not much driving Sunday.
March 4, 2013
Chelsea Sexton (EV1, Who Killed the Electric Car) was in town promoting theelectricgeneration.org so I went down with some Oregon Electric Vehicle Association (OEVA) members to Bridgeport Brewery and had dinner (no beer for me though). Total ride was about 15 miles... and it was pretty dark on the way back. I think I need to adjust the light a little, but it was pretty cool, out there in the dark.... just cruising on the back-roads.
[image: normal_ChelseaSexton.jpg]
So my 3rd day impression (note, I have limited riding experience on my old eVFR and my 2000 SV650):
- The bike handles well for my weight/height. The suspension seems fine, but I'd like to take to a tuner to get a second opinion
- I only use the clutch to downshift. I blip the throttle/shift up for higher gears
- I mostly use second gear around town
- The bike is pretty flickable and easy to ride around turns
- Charging is so easy and I think pretty reasonable from a 15A 120V socket. I haven't tried L2 yet
- Regenerative braking is awesome. Need to make sure to ease into regen around a corner since it's on the rear tire. I can slow to almost a stop with Regen, usingvery little of my brake
- The build quality of the bike is great. I'd like a quick release for the seat, but I carry an Allen wrench. I store an emergency tire inflator and pressure gauge under the seat.
- I thought I'd want more information about the batteries voltages, motor/battery current but what I've found is that the dashboard displays exactly what I need while riding. The rest can hopefully be downloaded off of the memory card and analyzed later.
- I ignore the range on the dash and keep an eye on the battery SOC.
- The "thunk", "lash", "clunk" etc is almost negligible if you just ease the throttle forward while at a stop to take up the transmission slack. The only other time is coming off throttle and into regen. It's no more or less than my old SV650 coming off throttle into engine braking before a turn. It's a non-issue for me.
- This bike gets a LOT of looks as I pass by people.
Congrats on the new toy! I am bummed to see your other project stop, I loved the engineering going into it. It was due to your contacts that I bought the Headway cells I used on my VFR and my Seadoo as replacement batteries....novelty item surely but a fun DIY project for me.
I'm still a little bummed as well... but another member bought it and restored it, so that's good.
I still have like 40 cells I'm going to make a nice big 12V 100Ah battery that I can hook up to an inverter and have as a portable power unit (can use in emergencies, or to charge 10 miles into my motorcycle, take camping, charge with solar, etc.)
I do love the bike, and it meets and exceeds what I wanted in a motorcycle.... and much sexier than my VFR, IMHO.
Nice looking bike, if I could afford one it would be my commuter.
Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!
What oil do you use? Many many :-)
Veering off track, I found this little beauty, in case Travis hasn't seen it yet, though I think it's more likely he has:
Yeah! That's Alex, he's a buddy of mine. Great looking bike. We chat now and then, bounce ideas off eachother. He's about to upgrade his controller if I recall correctly.
I rode my Brammo to work today, after it's been so crappy in PDX for the last couple weeks, along with me being out of town. Felt awesome. I'll be riding every day this summer if I can help it!
There some interesting looking offerings out there
[image: post-8974-0-29828500-1364548732.jpg]
[image: post-8974-0-16156200-1364548638.jpg]
[image: post-8974-0-44579700-1364548493.jpg]
[image: post-8974-0-25139200-1364548685.jpg]
Personally I prefer old-skool fossil fuel burners......
[image: post-8974-0-63157600-1364548541.jpg]
[image: post-8974-0-03378300-1364548727.jpg]
[image: post-8974-0-60200500-1364548591.jpg]
:beer:
frodusI'm still a little bummed as well... but another member bought it and restored it, so that's good.
I still have like 40 cells I'm going to make a nice big 12V 100Ah battery that I can hook up to an inverter and have as a portable power unit (can use in emergencies, or to charge 10 miles into my motorcycle, take camping, charge with solar, etc.)
I do love the bike, and it meets and exceeds what I wanted in a motorcycle.... and much sexier than my VFR, IMHO.
I wish it wasn't so expensive to play with those cells...I used 4 in a Seadoo and they worked great...then they got submerged and were flooded for a long time, killed 3 of the 4. Amazing how much rust you can get from Stainless steel...
I wanted to build a 4s2p pack for another watercraft but now I don't have the cells to do it with and since it was just for grins it's not worth $23+ per cell.
Tightwad, there are some other cells out there, how many Ah ya need?
Here's a video of a little cruise I went on, sorry about not dubbing music over it... need to learn some video editing.
[video: https://www.youtube.com/embed/DJjVQjPnhz8?feature=oembed] End of thread · 134 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 19 Aug 2019