R/r Wiring Fix For 1990-1997 Vfrs

Today fastbroshi (Tim) brought his bike up to have the charging system tested, and a VFRness custom fit to it. Thanks to the work of many other 3rd and 4th gen owners, I already make a VFRness, but with Tims help the VFRness is now a better fit, and installation can be seen in pictures!

The first thing we did was remove the tail, and take initial readings. Tim just bought this bike a few weeks ago, so this was fairly new territory for both of us.

Here is the "Tail Off" picture:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_tail_off.jpg

Here is the R/R and OEM wiring. Note that the R/R is not the right one....this is one from a CBR600....same R/R but with different mounting. This was held on with a standard thread bolt that barely reach, and only 1 bolt:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_oem_rr_connection.jpg

Closeup of the wiring:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_wiring_full_view.jpg


Before we did anything, I wanted to take baseline readings. Here is what we found:

Stator Check:
Yellow wires to ground showed no continuity
Resistance between each pair of wires (1-2,1-3,2-3) was 1.5 Ohms
AC Voltage between wires (1-2,1-3,2-3):
16VAC @ idle
37VAC @ 3K RPM
62VAC @ 5K RPM

Results:
Stator Passed

R/R Test:
Battery Voltage, Key off: 12.73
Battery Voltage, Key on, Engine off:12.22
Voltage Engine Running at idle: 12.39
Voltage Engine Running at 3K RPM: 12.97
Voltage Engine Running at 5K RPM: 13.49

Results:
Weak Charging

With the basic tests out of the way, it was time to dig in! First up was disconnecting the Battery, ground first, then positive:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_battery_disconnected.jpg

Next we tried to disconnect the Starter Relay.....it has quite fused together with melted plastic...odd because it looked "ok" from the outside...This is why each VFRness now includes a "Starter Relay Repair kit":
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_starter_relay_plug.jpg

I was going to replace his Starter Relay with a spare I had ordered some time back, but we found the "B" and "M" wires were reversed. The Starter Wire has a locking tab to locate it. Tim instead scraped the pins clean with an Exacto Knife:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_starter_relay_compare.jpg

Next came the R/R connector. R/R had been replaced, but you can see why it was needed!:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_oem_rr_plug_burned.jpg

Finally we disconnected the Stator Plug....of the three it was the cleanest, no burning:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_stator_disconnected.jpg

We began taking measurements one wire at a time, for the cleanest install. Previous versions have been based on Emailed pictures and measurements, many of which didn't match. Some design changes were made from the original VFRness, but nothing substantial. Good to know that all the work done by other riders had resulted in a "pretty good" kit....now we were making it much better!

First thing to fix was the Starter Relay wires. They were clipped off about 1" from the connector, then unwrapped:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_starter_relay_wires_uncovered.jpg

Next we installed the Red, Green and Yellow wires with ends that come in the VFRness, along with the heat shrink. All connections crimped AND soldered of course:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_starter_relay_fix.jpg

We cut the OEM R/R connection off, and shrinked up the wires to protect them. We opted NOT to unwrap all the OEM wiring and remove it, but rather left it alone:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_oem_rr_wires_ended.jpg

Here we are testing the length of the Ground wire, it passes under the Coils and other stuff in front of the battery, then comes up the left side to connect:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_beginning_fitment.jpg

The Positive wires look like this, you can see the Starter Relay connection where it will come up about centered in front of the battery, then it will pass over the starter relay to connect, as the OEM does. Not pictures is the Battery Portion, which runs from the connector pictured on the far right, and also comes up the middle with the Starter Relay Connection:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_positive_wires.jpg

The Stator wires were the easiest, measure length needed and cut to fit. 28" was the final length, down from the original 36" measurement I had been using. At this point we had all the measurements and fitment needed, and the VFRness was complete!
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_vfrness__completed.jpg

VFRness features:
10 gauge wiring from R/R to Fuse, 8 Gauge from Fuse to Battery (10 would probably have been just the same, given the 10 gauge from the R/R...this may be changed going forward)
12 gauge wiring branching to the Start Relay
10 gauge Ground Connection
12 gauge Stator Wires
Heavy Duty Fuse Holder
New R/R Connection, as well as Stator connection on the R/R side. The bike side was left as is, since it wasn't damaged.


Installing the VFRness wasn't very hard:
Remove Tail
Remove Right Mid Fairing
Disconnect Battery
Disconnect Starter Relay, make repairs if needed
Disconnect R/R and clip it off, then cover the ends with Heat Shrink
Disconnect Stator connection and inspect/clean/replace bike end if needed
Feed Fuse Holder and Ground wire under the electronics in front of the battery:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_vfrness_install_2.jpg

Connect Stator(note the old connector was left....it won't hurt anything and can be removed it preferred:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_vfrness_stator_plug_connected.jpg

Connect R/R....make sure the connector goes ALL THE WAY in....bike won't charge otherwise...ask us how we know...:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_vfrness_rr_connection.jpg

End result of feeding wires in:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_vfrness_wires_run.jpg

Reconnect Starter Relay...either replacing the Red/White wire in the original connector, or by using the new connector...make sure the wires line up the same:
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_vfrness_starter_relay_wiring.jpg

Arrange wires in the right positions and reconnect the battery, Positive side first of course. Fuse Holder ends up on the left side, with doublesided tape holding it to the Starter Relay rubber holder(not pictured):
http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/97%20VFRness%20Develop%20and%20Install/images/97_vfrness_battery_connection.jpg

Install was the easy part, lots of time went in to each measurement to be sure the fit was as snug and clean as possible. After the install we took more readings. Knowing the Stator wouldn't have changed, we tested just the voltage:

R/R Post Test:
Battery Voltage, Key off: 12.57
Battery Voltage, Key on, Engine off:11.97
Voltage Engine Running at idle: 12.65 (Up about .25 volts)
Voltage Engine Running at 3K RPM: 13.30 (Up about .33 volts)
Voltage Engine Running at 5K RPM: 14.45 (Up almost 1 volt)

Results:
SUCCESS!!!


All images can be seen here:
Click here for full Slideshow Gallery

VFRness can be obtained here(pictures will be updated):
Click here to get VFRness

I am pleased!

Great job and thanks for helping out on this updated, much needed mod!!

I have to say it was good to dig into the VFR. After the electrical shenanigans I went through w/ my last bike, I didn't want to leave anything to chance. I had planned on going through all the connectors and clean them up, add some dielectric grease (still do), but I saw Josh's VFRness and thought it would be a good idea. Glad I did, Mr. Starter Relay. That thing was toast.
Up next, probably some braided brake lines. Thanks again, Josh!!

Fitted the VFRness on my 4th Gen today.



The starter relay on my 12 yr old looked good:

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/HPIM2333.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/HPIM2334.jpg

So no need for the repair kit... :biggrin:


Fitting was easy enough, but with all my other stuff wired to the battery, it is getting a bit crowded...

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/HPIM2331.jpg


This VFRness is one from before Tightwad did the install above, so the wires are a bit too long. But this is now adressed for future customers :cool:

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/HPIM2329.jpg


http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/HPIM2330.jpg

Yes folks, this is still the OEM R/R, albeit with a Pentium2 heatsink strapped on top!


With the OEM wiring, I got 13.5V at idle, with the VFRness nearly 15V
With OEM 3-5krpm gave ~14.3, VFRness 14.85V

SInce I always ride with -both- headlights on, the VFRness reads 12.5V @idle and @3-5krpm 14.7V.



Didnot have a 30A fuse lying around so the 20 will do for now....

Is this the kind of thing that any idiot can install? Instructions included?
I will be calling you after payday.

[image: View Post]racercosmo, on Jun 3 2009, 04:53 AM, said:

Is this the kind of thing that any idiot can install?


I think this picture proves that any idiot can do it....




http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/PIC_0011.jpg


:biggrin:



Instructions are included and there are pictures above.

DO press in the R/R connector in as described in Tightwad's post. I read that, thought yeah yeah and measuring voltage it remained stable while reviing... hhhmmm... Aha!!! press the connector all the way..... duh....

I never bother clipping the old connectors, just moved them out of the way.

[image: View Post]Dutchy, on Jun 3 2009, 03:39 AM, said:

[image: View Post]racercosmo, on Jun 3 2009, 04:53 AM, said:

Is this the kind of thing that any idiot can install?


I think this picture proves that any idiot can do it....




http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/PIC_0011.jpg


:biggrin:



Instructions are included and there are pictures above.

DO press in the R/R connector in as described in Tightwad's post. I read that, thought yeah yeah and measuring voltage it remained stable while reviing... hhhmmm... Aha!!! press the connector all the way..... duh....

I never bother clipping the old connectors, just moved them out of the way.



It takes a big man to wear a skirt










It takes a bigger man to laugh at that man :goofy:

The install primarily involves unplugging the OEM connectors and putting the VFRness ones in.

The only part a total noob may scratch his/her head is when you have to take out 1 of the 4 wires from the starter relay plug

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/HPIM2333.jpg

so you can slot the one from the VFRness in.

You must know that the actual metal bit has a locking tab

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/v001.jpg

so that is why the installation instructions say you slide a tiny screwdriver in from the front. :biggrin:



Last tip is on the battery poles.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/HPIM2331.jpg

As you loosen the bolts that you have to take out to add wire connectors, pull the bolt up while the little square nut is still attached and slip something under the nut (a bit of rolled up paper for instance) to stop it from falling down. So when you re-insert the bolt again, it easily grip the nut again. Or use longer bolts.....

[image: View Post]Dutchy, on Jun 4 2009, 01:41 PM, said:

The install primarily involves unplugging the OEM connectors and putting the VFRness ones in.

The only part a total noob may scratch his/her head is when you have to take out 1 of the 4 wires from the starter relay plug

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/HPIM2333.jpg

so you can slot the one from the VFRness in.

You must know that the actual metal bit has a locking tab

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/v001.jpg

so that is why the installation instructions say you slide a tiny screwdriver in from the front. :biggrin:



Last tip is on the battery poles.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/HPIM2331.jpg

As you loosen the bolts that you have to take out to add wire connectors, pull the bolt up while the little square nut is still attached and slip something under the nut (a bit of rolled up paper for instance) to stop it from falling down. So when you re-insert the bolt again, it easily grip the nut again. Or use longer bolts.....

Great suggestion on the battery bolts. The alternative is a longer bolt, which isn't a bad idea either. I have used a small screwdriver to wedge that nut up, as well as a small bit of vacuum hose(or some of the heat shrink I send) under it like you did with paper.

You got good results, I hope you are enjoying the nice weather!

I ordered a R/R and VFRness for my 3rd gen today. Thank you.

[image: View Post]racercosmo, on Jun 13 2009, 05:37 AM, said:

I ordered a R/R and VFRness for my 3rd gen today. Thank you.


let us know how you got on.

before plugging the r/r plug in the r/r look at how "deep" the red black yellow wires seat in the plug (the copper bit at the end)
then when inserting the plug check that none of get gets pushed back a little (it is a tight squeeze in there... and the "female" may not let the "male" slide in that easily :cool: )

Or when pushing in, not only push on the white plastic connector but also on the wires.

We want a as perfect as possible conenction!

VFRness is installed. The starter relay plug was burned pretty bad, I replaced it. That was the worst looking of the three. About as bad as the one pictured above. I'm still waiting on the R/R though, so I'm dead in the water until Monday.
Arrgh, almost 3 weeks without my bike!

Did another 4th gen install today....once again I hadn't seated the plug firmly. The tab should go ALL THE WAY to the R/R....only took me about 1 minute to figure it out, but it worked like a charm. VJ's bike was in great shape already, so hopefully this preventative maintenance will keep it running that way.

Why am I in the Garage working on such a nice day???

[image: View Post]Tightwad, on Jun 20 2009, 02:57 PM, said:

Did another 4th gen install today....once again I hadn't seated the plug firmly. The tab should go ALL THE WAY to the R/R....only took me about 1 minute to figure it out, but it worked like a charm. VJ's bike was in great shape already, so hopefully this preventative maintenance will keep it running that way.

Why am I in the Garage working on such a nice day???

Yup, I was fortunate enough to live only 20 min away from the inventor of the VFRness. :biggrin: Joshua (Tightwad) did a great job. We had a nice chat about bikes while his obviously skilled hands fixed up the VFRness and the replacement R/R in no time. He did an extremely thorough job; checking the voltage before and after the install and also checking the stator to make sure it was fine.

Thanks again man! Now I can take longer rides without the fear of being stranded by a malfunctioning stock R/R and wiring.

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention that he was kind enough to bend my rear brake pedal back into position (result of a garage drop when I first got the bike). Much appreciated!

Everything is on the bike now, and hooked up. It is charging, but it seems like not enough. I have the voltmeter on the battery terminals, and at idle it's 12.5. I rev it up to 6k and it goes to about 13. It seems like 1 volt too low. Maybe the voltmeter is defective?

So some other issue is there. With a fresh charge on the battery overnight, I made it 80 miles, stopped. I checked the battery, 12.7 volts parked, then with it running it was 12.2 then revving it up went to 13ish. Once again, on the way back, it died, not enough juice.
The dealer is my next stop, It's about due for a valve check anyway.

[image: View Post]racercosmo, on Jun 25 2009, 08:14 AM, said:

So some other issue is there. With a fresh charge on the battery overnight, I made it 80 miles, stopped. I checked the battery, 12.7 volts parked, then with it running it was 12.2 then revving it up went to 13ish. Once again, on the way back, it died, not enough juice.
The dealer is my next stop, It's about due for a valve check anyway.


did you double check all plugs are in ALL THE WAY (is there any other way... :biggrin: )

Also, see my post on the wires on the R/R plug itself.

if not, then dealer.....

Tightwad, great post. Thanks a bunch!

I'm more of a lurker than a poster, so most of you won't know me. I've owned my '94 for many years and noticed some stalling at idle, after warmed up, when the fan kicks on (sound familiar?). I was surprised because I had replaced my original R/R with another stock R/R using heat transfer paste, four heat sinks mounted on top of the R/R and a fan/heat sink strapped on top of those. I figured my R/R problems were solved forever...

Anyway, after reading the posts about my exact same problem, I checked my R/R and it was a gonner. Since then, I've installed a new R/R and VFRness purchased at wiremybike.com. The install was fairly easy and I did use the VFRness Starter Relay connector. My question revolves around the charge (as measured at the battery) that I should see at 3/K and 5/K RPM.

Here's what I get:

R/R Post Install Test
Batter Voltage, Key off: 12. 62
Battery Voltage, Key on, Engine off: 11.95
Voltage Engine Running at idle: 12. 73
Voltage Engine Running at 3K: 14.45
Voltage Engine Running at 5K: 14.45

I question the last two readings because 1) they are the same and 2) in Tightwad's RR/Post Test his 3/K voltage was 13.3 and his 5/K test was 14.45. So why am I getting the same reading for both 3/K and 5/K? Anyone think this is a problem or signals something I should be double checking?

Sorry for the long post, thanks for any advice!

OK, its official. I need the VFRness, and I just ordered it from your web site. I hope you can ship this quick because I'm stuck...and thanks so much for taking the time to make this.

[image: View Post]shrek, on Aug 6 2009, 03:37 AM, said:

OK, its official. I need the VFRness, and I just ordered it from your web site. I hope you can ship this quick because I'm stuck...and thanks so much for taking the time to make this.Ordered mine the other day, received it yesterday. No problems (with this bike) yet, but my last '98 experienced the R/R failure in the middle of a long trip. I'm doing it right with this one ... :)

[image: View Post]Beaumod, on Jul 24 2009, 08:49 AM, said:

Tightwad, great post. Thanks a bunch!

I'm more of a lurker than a poster, so most of you won't know me. I've owned my '94 for many years and noticed some stalling at idle, after warmed up, when the fan kicks on (sound familiar?). I was surprised because I had replaced my original R/R with another stock R/R using heat transfer paste, four heat sinks mounted on top of the R/R and a fan/heat sink strapped on top of those. I figured my R/R problems were solved forever...

Anyway, after reading the posts about my exact same problem, I checked my R/R and it was a gonner. Since then, I've installed a new R/R and VFRness purchased at wiremybike.com. The install was fairly easy and I did use the VFRness Starter Relay connector. My question revolves around the charge (as measured at the battery) that I should see at 3/K and 5/K RPM.

Here's what I get:

R/R Post Install Test
Batter Voltage, Key off: 12. 62
Battery Voltage, Key on, Engine off: 11.95
Voltage Engine Running at idle: 12. 73
Voltage Engine Running at 3K: 14.45
Voltage Engine Running at 5K: 14.45

I question the last two readings because 1) they are the same and 2) in Tightwad's RR/Post Test his 3/K voltage was 13.3 and his 5/K test was 14.45. So why am I getting the same reading for both 3/K and 5/K? Anyone think this is a problem or signals something I should be double checking?

Sorry for the long post, thanks for any advice!

Sounds fine to me...every bike is a bit different, hence the reason i check mid range and higher range RPMs. As long as 1500 or so shows more than battery, and it increases from there, you are probably ok!

Joshua

i got my vfrness and a new r/r from you a few months back. it was easy to install and fixed all the charging problems.

Um, does anyone know if the newer VFR's need this mod or not?
I have a 2008..

(Fearing the worst, whenever I take the fairings, I also spray some contact cleaner into the connectors that I find)

Many thanks, -turgut

[image: View Post]turgut kalfaoglu, on Aug 11 2009, 10:51 PM, said:

Um, does anyone know if the newer VFR's need this mod or not?
I have a 2008..

(Fearing the worst, whenever I take the fairings, I also spray some contact cleaner into the connectors that I find)

Many thanks, -turgut


I think you're OK. Honda quietly fixed most of the charging problems by 2000ish.

I think I will be ordering a VFRness and replacement r/r for my new '95 shortly. I have not even tested the charging system but I might as well just be preventative and replace it now before it bites my ass.

The instructions provided with the VFRness need to include pics like the ones in this post. I made use of this post to get it all figured out. Just a constructive suggestion. The good news is that between the new RR and harness the charging system is healthy again.

I found that it was not necessary to use the VFRness starter relay connection.

[image: View Post]Lee, on 09 December 2009 - 10:34 AM, said:

I found that it was not necessary to use the VFRness starter relay connection.


I include that because of how often it IS needed...glad you didn't need it!

[image: View Post]indianagenius, on 20 September 2009 - 03:36 PM, said:

The instructions provided with the VFRness need to include pics like the ones in this post. I made use of this post to get it all figured out. Just a constructive suggestion. The good news is that between the new RR and harness the charging system is healthy again.


I will look to improve the instructions with pictures, at least on the website. I have relied on these threads for details where needed, but should include everything in one place...thanks for the input!

More than 7 months into the VFRness mod and my bike is still running great! Thanks again Joshua!

With all the talk about RR's failing and i am planning a very long trip next year - should i be worried? I assume that this is the OEM RR? I have about 30K miles / 42K kms on my 3rd Gen....do i have a lot of time to wait?[image: Attached Image: 92VFR RR.JPG]