V4 Engine Video Posted

Video of the new V4 engine development with details, on the site http://feelv4.com/en_GB/pages/mainpage . Click on the box in the lower left.

[image: Posted Image]

Throttle By Wire.
Sounds good.
Hope the battery doesn't go dead though, coz there'll be no bump-starting this beast.
Or is there a mechanical back-up?

I find these designer and engineer discussions fascinating.Honda and for that matter all the Japanese manufactures have accomplished amazing things over the last 30 years ,but you really never saw or heard from the men and woman behind all the work.
If I could only understand Japanese, can you imagine what a conversation you could have with this engine project leader. Better still I would rather just listen to him and Kevin Cameron of Cycle World fame have a chat. His passion for the subject is obvious.
I think it's serves the "big" Honda corporation well to give us some personnel insight into the people behind the machines.

[image: View Post]Rice, on Sep 11 2009, 10:50 AM, said:

[image: Posted Image]

Throttle By Wire.
Sounds good.
Hope the battery doesn't go dead though, coz there'll be no bump-starting this beast.
Or is there a mechanical back-up?
I went back and looked at the transmission video posted on Facebook. On the bike with the manual clutch you can see the pull/push throttle cables and conventional switch housing. I don't see them on the electronic shift model so the tbw may just be another tour bike option? Just a guess...

[image: View Post]Rice, on Sep 11 2009, 02:50 PM, said:

Throttle By Wire.
Sounds good.
Hope the battery doesn't go dead though, coz there'll be no bump-starting this beast.
Or is there a mechanical back-up?

Well, the cam is coming from a dirt bike, so why not kick start? :goofy:

Domo arigato for the linky - does anyone else feel that about half of what the Engineer-san said didn't make it into subtitles? Nonetheless I'm feeling it... not about to put my emminently collectable 5th gen up for sale this century though :dry:

And a big +1 to sitting in on a chat with Kevin C and a few Honda gearheads - with a barrel of sake being served by fetching Geisha, of course...

Interesting...looks like a V5 with the center cylinder missing from the front bank.

[image: View Post]melvis, on Sep 11 2009, 02:10 PM, said:

Domo arigato for the linky - does anyone else feel that about half of what the Engineer-san said didn't make it into subtitles? Nonetheless I'm feeling it...

I've seen a few videos of people talking in Japanese being translated into subtitles. It always seems like they talk for five minutes and we get one sentence...

[image: View Post]Rice, on Sep 11 2009, 01:50 PM, said:

[image: Posted Image]

Throttle By Wire.
Sounds good.
Hope the battery doesn't go dead though, coz there'll be no bump-starting this beast.
Or is there a mechanical back-up?

No way the battery can go dead. All the space and weight savings of the new engine were developed so a 5,000 CCA battery can be fitted! :laugh: :laugh: Actually a bump start is unlikely with the ECU's as most won't allow starting without being powered up. Veeeery Interesting though. Now I am gonna wait for the V5 Interceptor.

I am not a fan of fly by wire at all. Honda is using this on all their new cars. A trained, skilled driver can feel a delay at times, even if it is VERY minor. I really dont like the idea of any confusion when I am leaned over at the apex.

The delay is not felt 99% of the time but it does happen.

No, there is no back up. Just an electronic throttle body.

I actually really like the way Honda's DBW system works in their autos. The throttle response is really good IMO. YMMV.

[image: View Post]soichiro, on Sep 13 2009, 04:25 AM, said:

I am not a fan of fly by wire at all. Honda is using this on all their new cars. A trained, skilled driver can feel a delay at times, even if it is VERY minor. I really dont like the idea of any confusion when I am leaned over at the apex.

The delay is not felt 99% of the time but it does happen.

No, there is no back up. Just an electronic throttle body.
I always laugh when folks say they can feel the lag. Our brains are ridiculously slow compared to how fast a TBW system can react, and the best part of these is that the throttle opening is managed to ensure your ham-fistedness doesn't stall the airflow in the throttle bodies, which in turn results in a faster pickup in the power delivery and therefore acceleration.

Remember how CV carbs used vacuum pistons to ensure the airflow in the throttle body didn't stall? EFI came along and then everyone was trying to manage this using the fuel mixture only, and then Yamaha re-introduced vacuum pistons on their 2002 R1 to provide smoother throttle response! Throttle By Wire is just the logical progression to getting back to smoother response without needing a mechanically driven system.

In short, a well designed TBW system will kick any mechanical system's butt.

[image: View Post]Rice, on Sep 11 2009, 11:50 AM, said:

coz there'll be no bump-starting this beast.
There is no bump starting a 1200cc period! I tried to bump start my Busa once and well........!

The Unicam has me interested, based on the offroad crf series? I hope they dont require frequent valve checks like the dirtbikes do? I think my buddy Craig has to check his valves every time he rides the damn thing - he got so tired of it he bought an X too now he has an X and and R so he can have one bike to ride between vavle checks.

[image: View Post]JBAXX, on Sep 11 2009, 09:32 PM, said:

Interesting...looks like a V5 with the center cylinder missing from the front bank.
The gap was also noticed by this AutoBlog post regarding a Honda V4 cylinder-deactiviation patent submission:
AutoBlog Post - Honda Patent

Now they've posted an audio clip of the motor, located at the original link above.

After listening, umm... :huh:

[image: View Post]soichiro, on Sep 13 2009, 06:25 AM, said:

I am not a fan of fly by wire at all.
Isn't it already fitted on some bike models (those ones with several 'Mode' options)? They've all had good reports.
I'd imagine Honda had to follow this particular trend.

[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on Sep 14 2009, 05:02 PM, said:

Now they've posted an audio clip of the motor, located at the original link above.

After listening, umm... :huh:


Gonna need a slip-on for sure. I'm sure a 1200cc V4 will sound pretty bad-ass when you uncork it.

Seems to rev pretty quick off the bottom though.

[image: View Post]fdl3, on Sep 14 2009, 08:46 AM, said:

[image: View Post]JBAXX, on Sep 11 2009, 09:32 PM, said:

Interesting...looks like a V5 with the center cylinder missing from the front bank.
The gap was also noticed by this AutoBlog post regarding a Honda V4 cylinder-deactiviation patent submission:
AutoBlog Post - Honda Patent



They could easily make this a V5 without making the engine any bigger at all.

Technically speaking the new VFR 1200 crank is more like RC45 360� big banger
than the VFR 180�...


VFR 1200 crank
[image: Posted Image]

RC45 360� Big Banger...
[image: Posted Image]
VFR 180� Little Banger...
[image: Posted Image]

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on Sep 15 2009, 07:59 AM, said:

Technically speaking the new VFR 1200 crank is more like RC45 360� big banger
than the VFR 180�...


VFR 1200 crank
[image: Posted Image]

RC45 360� Big Banger...
[image: Posted Image]
VFR 180� Little Banger...
[image: Posted Image]

I posted this on the other thread with the video. Looking at that picture you grabbed I think the numbers should be 18 + 72 = 90 not 28 as I wrote.
Interestingly Yamaha with their 90 degree phasing of the cranks on their R1 (& MotoGP) get the 90 degree V4 firing order and balance.

Quote

In the video he said the crankpins were offset by 28 degrees (if I recall correctly). 28 + 62 = 90. The V-angle will be 62 degrees so the firing order is 90 degrees of the crank. What they are doing is closing the V-angle to make a more compact engine but keeping the balance as it was. One piston is stopped at TDC while the other is at maximum velocity.The V-twin Honda Transalp has exactly the same layout.

Read this thread for a brilliant discussion of the concept (& it is from long ago) http://www.xs650.org...moothness.htm...

From this thread: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...c=53988&hl=

That sounds like ass.

Does it have a counter balancer now? It sounds like it, but I thought they said they maintained the 90degree balance by the offset crank.

[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Sep 16 2009, 06:17 PM, said:

That sounds like ass.

Does it have a counter balancer now? It sounds like it, but I thought they said they maintained the 90degree balance by the offset crank.


Sounds like ass cause it's bad a recording... go to the Honda V4 site and listen to the original... much better...

[image: View Post]Auspa�ol, on Sep 16 2009, 01:18 PM, said:

[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Sep 16 2009, 06:17 PM, said:

That sounds like ass.

Does it have a counter balancer now? It sounds like it, but I thought they said they maintained the 90degree balance by the offset crank.


Sounds like ass cause it's bad a recording... go to the Honda V4 site and listen to the original... much better...


Agreed. Much better sound in the original. It's got a nice deep idle, but starts to sound a little whiny at the top of those throttle blips.

Then again, the stock 6th gen exhaust isn't very impressive either. It's best sound is only heard under hard acceleration blasting into the vtec range, and it comes from the intake, not the exhaust... I'm sure this 1200 will sound just fine under the same circumstances. :cool:

Sounds a bit reminiscent of the RC211V (V5) motor upon which I believe this engine has it's roots. It's a V5 with cyl 3 deleted.

Unicam, oh crap if the vtec didnt produce enough service work this one sure will.

hi, vifrs i am new there so it like my new poste ;-) ...
vifers did you thchek this [image: Posted Image]
it seems that to activate de 4 valve we must go more than 7000 rpm ??? i think it not realy good idea ...

source :http://green.autoblog.com/gallery/honda-v4-engine-patent-drawings/#4

[image: View Post]bleujack, on Sep 16 2009, 05:38 PM, said:

It seems that to activate de 4 valve we must go more than 7000 rpm ??? i think it not realy good idea ...

source :http://green.autoblog.com/gallery/honda-v4-engine-patent-drawings/#4

Actually it anything more than ~45% throttle opening it's on all 4 cylinders. All cylinders run on all valves all the time.

[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Sep 16 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

That sounds like ass.

Does it have a counter balancer now? It sounds like it, but I thought they said they maintained the 90degree balance by the offset crank.

It doesn't have one, it's in the video "no balancer."

[image: View Post]mechdziner714, on Sep 16 2009, 03:56 PM, said:

Unicam, oh crap if the vtec didnt produce enough service work this one sure will.

Don't say that :angry: I know nothing of the CR series dirt bikes running the Unicam. Is it not reliable?