hi. my name is wlodek, i run a small motorcycle workshop in slough, uk. i've recently come across this beautiful vf1000fe that's been done up by vfrcptn if i'm correct and decided to follow his footsteps as my new project. only recently finished a 1989 full power vmax with stage 7 tuning :D and came across your forum very incidentally. i've always been a massive yamaha fan (sans t-shirts and paddock jackets) by never had anything other than a yammy (97 thunderace, 98 r1, 01 fzs1000, 07 fz1 fazer and a 1989 vmx1200) moreso i was in a process of mating a complete rear end off a thunderace into customer's fj1200a where at one stage a vf1000 front sprocket was needed, googled it up and all these beauties popped up :D i was hooked. bought a vf1000 and a 750 with a 1000 engine for spares and i'm hoping to really get stuck into it. one has a seized cylinder, the other main bearings shot, but i'm positive. or stupid LOL few ideas: 900rr rear wheel, nc30 front, 929 yokes and usd forks, vf1000fe swingarm braced with parts of another one and hopefully few more... i attach few poor quality pics ;) so hey! am i crazy or just plain stupid?
I am interested to see your project develop as I have 2 1000F's in the garage. 1 with 2600km and another that someday will hopefully become a custom naked bike project with a 1000R engine (I have most of the parts needed). Good luck!
Welcome! Nice to see a project in the old girl section. Maybe you can actually get it done, my F project is woefully behind schedule. My R is being selfish at the moment. Look forward to seeing the progress.
this is a first honda i'm taking completely apart and to be honest i have to admit honda in the 80s were so much more in front of the competition in regards of design and future thinking. i mean wow, this is a 1000cc v4 engine, but compared to a vmax plant it's tiny, and i mean it in a good way, it's so much better designed and developed. sleeves in cylinders, coolant in the frame etc... well, maybe valves could have been adjusted by shims.
27 year old bike and a single bolt hasn't shed - now that's good component quality. sometimes we get a 2 or 3 year old chinese scooter in the workshop and you can actuaaly see half of it's weight is a kling-on waiting to drop off when you ride over a pothole ;)
so last night i stripped one engine, cleaned both heads, replaced valve stem seals and ground valves in the seats. wouldn't like to take the heads off again so prefer to do things properly first time. then you don't have to worry about some idle problems or compression defferences...
also purchased some 929 forks from canada for $99 + $90 postage - now that's a laugh when you compare that to at least �200 for a same set in the uk. 900rr rear wheel on the way, along with a vfr400 nc30 front with discs... reading this forum has helped so much in the parts dept.
will upload some pics when my wife lets me off the leash.
Yes, the Vf1000R and even the 3rd gen VFR ('90-'93) will work I can confirm. I suspect some of the other VF/VFR starters may also work but I haven't tried them to be sure.
in the process i'm thinking about the paintjob. i want to know what you think.
two classic variations and a modern black&white.
so, jury's out on these :)
[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 17 January 2010 - 11:57 AM, said:
That looks strangely familiar....
i absolutely adore your bike, surely i'm not on my own on that ;) i used your pic for some poor paintjob attempts. if i photo'd my bike at the current state it would look something like this:
ok. it's coming on quite well. heads are almost ready to be put back together and for a lick of paint. some items i wanted to keep standard (ie. footpegs) have scrubbed up wery well. i couldn't believe there was honda under all that rust and grime ;)
next week i'll be sandblasting the frame and hopefully putting the engine where it belongs. can't decide whether i want the frame/swingarm original silver or modern black... eh, possibilities ;)
[image: View Post]squirrelman, on 18 January 2010 - 11:47 PM, said:
DO the oil mod or risk a blowup.....
Well, depending on how many miles these bikes had, if they don't have pitted cams already, they may not have the oiling issue. Especially if he keeps the revs up.
[image: View Post]elizilla, on 19 January 2010 - 01:09 AM, said:
[image: View Post]squirrelman, on 18 January 2010 - 11:47 PM, said:
DO the oil mod or risk a blowup.....
Well, depending on how many miles these bikes had, if they don't have pitted cams already, they may not have the oiling issue. Especially if he keeps the revs up.
i'm putting one good engine out of two broken ones. they had 30 and 37k miles. one of them was standard, but the other had additional pipes feeding heads with oil from oil pressure sensor. the hole on top of front sprocket was plugged. is that correct? as the only systems i've seen used main gallery as oil pickup and not oil pressure sensor. the latter seems much easier and simplier aswell.
why is it always when you start a project, the weather suddenly goes nice and sunny? :pissed:
anyway, last two weeks have been quite bizzy at the garage, so progress has been slow... ish.
so far i've managed to strip both engines, prepare a set of heads and clean and paint it all with a high temp enamel paint. the difference is astounding.
i enclose a couple of pics, on one of them there is a part of engine casing that hasn't been painted yet, i'll keep that for some hatriot memories. on the other pic - chewed shell. yummy.
so hopefully by next week a fully refreshed engine will be ready to mount into a frame... yeah, now where did i put that ugly frame? ;)
and for a good measure - a picture of a bike in one piece LOL couldn't look at that yamaha all grubby and covered in winter salt so gave it a quick wash when noone was looking. love it.
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 01 February 2010 - 08:46 AM, said:
does anyone know if a 600rr swinger will fit? seb? anyone? got a 900rr rear wheel so don't really want an sss...
Anything will fit with some "persuasion" but I think the 600's shock mount setup will prove problematic on the F frame. Maybe an F3 or F4 arm would be less painless? The RR wheel will fit the stock arm with some help. You can pour through this for some ideas.
[image: View Post]Kel, on 01 February 2010 - 09:22 AM, said:
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 01 February 2010 - 08:46 AM, said:
does anyone know if a 600rr swinger will fit? seb? anyone? got a 900rr rear wheel so don't really want an sss...
Anything will fit with some "persuasion" but I think the 600's shock mount setup will prove problematic on the F frame. Maybe an F3 or F4 arm would be less painless? The RR wheel will fit the stock arm with some help. You can pour through this for some ideas.
is it because it's too high (shorter shock req'd) or offset somewhere wrong? i've noticed 600rrs don't use any linkage do they? so i assume as long as the mount offset is correct-ish and the lenght of the shock, it should be possible?
f3-f4 arms pose no attratcion as custom swingarms to my project so i give them a pass.
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 01 February 2010 - 12:18 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Kel, on 01 February 2010 - 09:22 AM, said:
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 01 February 2010 - 08:46 AM, said:
does anyone know if a 600rr swinger will fit? seb? anyone? got a 900rr rear wheel so don't really want an sss...
Anything will fit with some "persuasion" but I think the 600's shock mount setup will prove problematic on the F frame. Maybe an F3 or F4 arm would be less painless? The RR wheel will fit the stock arm with some help. You can pour through this for some ideas.
is it because it's too high (shorter shock req'd) or offset somewhere wrong? i've noticed 600rrs don't use any linkage do they? so i assume as long as the mount offset is correct-ish and the lenght of the shock, it should be possible?
f3-f4 arms pose no attratcion as custom swingarms to my project so i give them a pass.
The 600RR arm has a linkage underneath that connects to the 600RR frame, the closest mounting location for this linkage on my 750F would be the stock "drumstick" link mounts or the centerstand tabs. You're looking at a LOT of work to make that work, and after all that effort it will look quite out of place, IMO.
You can fit the 900RR wheel in the standard arm, have a breeze through the link Kel posted. :fing02:
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 01 February 2010 - 12:18 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Kel, on 01 February 2010 - 09:22 AM, said:
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 01 February 2010 - 08:46 AM, said:
does anyone know if a 600rr swinger will fit? seb? anyone? got a 900rr rear wheel so don't really want an sss...
Anything will fit with some "persuasion" but I think the 600's shock mount setup will prove problematic on the F frame. Maybe an F3 or F4 arm would be less painless? The RR wheel will fit the stock arm with some help. You can pour through this for some ideas.
is it because it's too high (shorter shock req'd) or offset somewhere wrong? i've noticed 600rrs don't use any linkage do they? so i assume as long as the mount offset is correct-ish and the lenght of the shock, it should be possible?
f3-f4 arms pose no attratcion as custom swingarms to my project so i give them a pass.
Here's a gif of it in action. I'm not sure how you would adapt this to the VF bikes? Maybe some engineering minds could suggest something? I did see some threads on the CBR forums on how to adapt this swingarm to the F2/F3/F4 so you might be able to follow a similar path?
[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 01 February 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:
Here's a gif of it in action. I'm not sure how you would adapt this to the VF bikes? Maybe some engineering minds could suggest something? I did see some threads on the CBR forums on how to adapt this swingarm to the F2/F3/F4 so you might be able to follow a similar path?
I put one on my F4i, lemme see if I can find the pics.
i think it'd look really nice. i don't want to keep the bike original. custom is the word. those arms are quite affrodable. what you reckon, is it worth a try?
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 01 February 2010 - 07:14 PM, said:
i think it'd look really nice. i don't want to keep the bike original. custom is the word. those arms are quite affrodable. what you reckon, is it worth a try?
Not having the 600 arm in hand, this is only a guess... The pivot mounting arms are probably not the same width as the F's, great if it's narrower. If not then there's material to remove from the arm. If it is narrower, will it fit into the right side pivot cage of the F's frame? If it fits and can pivot up without contacting the cage, there may be trouble with getting the chain over to the left(and it has to go quite a ways to clear a 5.5 RR wheel) because the chain passes through the arm, not an issue with the stock arm. If for some reason the chain does not interfere with the arm, there's the problem with the left side pivot bolt, which only goes through the frame a short distance, being able to fill the 600's left arm bearing sufficiently to be safe. How much room would there be between the arm and the left side frame. You could use a single long pivot bolt that connects the left and right sides of the frame but you would have to make a custom exhaust for the rear cylinders because the rear down pipes need that space, not a problem for the inline 600. Once you decide to reroute the rear exhaust, chances are the battery will have to be moved along with god knows what. There are more issues but you get the picture. Worth a try is VERY relative.
Honestly? I`d rather see a 2006 or so 1000RR swingarm in there. To me, it is not quite so blocky looking as the 600 arm. Has a straight across pivot tube though...and everything that goes along with that.
yeah. i was actually thinking i could use a single pivot bolt to fix the arm in the frame, take the left side bracket off, but forgot about the exhaust pipes, damn!
single axle is a no go for me then. on the other hand i could cut out the middle bit and convert such an arm to two mounting bolts.
as for the chain, yeah, offsetting it would not be a problem, and even if i had to skim some material off the internal facing on the arm, i would be prepared to do that knowing how strong those items are.
i hope you don't see my questions as a lot of talk without any action, but i want to learn as much as i can before i start chopping metal :(
ok. first dummy test done. 929 swingarm. here are some dimmensions:
swingarm pivot internal: vf 145mm , cbr 190mm
swingarm pivot external: vf 235mm, cbr 290mm
rear wheel axle internal: vf 255mm, cbr 255mm (at least one thing is good lol)
the 929 arm is almost as wide as the vf frame where it pivots. the only thing i can do is take material on the outside and replace it on the inside making sure welds go towards the back as much as possible.
left hand side pivoting point should be easy, but on the right it looks more complicated :(
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 08 February 2010 - 11:22 AM, said:
ok. first dummy test done. 929 swingarm. here are some dimmensions:
swingarm pivot internal: vf 145mm , cbr 190mm
swingarm pivot external: vf 235mm, cbr 290mm
rear wheel axle internal: vf 255mm, cbr 255mm (at least one thing is good lol)
the 929 arm is almost as wide as the vf frame where it pivots. the only thing i can do is take material on the outside and replace it on the inside making sure welds go towards the back as much as possible.
left hand side pivoting point should be easy, but on the right it looks more complicated :(
That arm is way too wide. You can't remove enough material to make it fit. The arm is hollow and if you hack off enough to make it fit, you'll be left with a gaping hole that can't be made strong with a thin aluminum patch. Even if you get the pivot points up there, the arm widens out and will hit the frame. You're barking up the wrong tree with this one. I want to see you safe and this is not the direction you want to go. Pick an arm that's narrower and start from there.
[image: View Post]Kel, on 08 February 2010 - 11:31 AM, said:
That arm is way too wide. You can't remove enough material to make it fit. The arm is hollow and if you hack off enough to make it fit, you'll be left with a gaping hole that can't be made strong with a thin aluminum patch. Even if you get the pivot points up there, the arm widens out and will hit the frame. You're barking up the wrong tree with this one. I want to see you safe and this is not the direction you want to go. Pick an arm that's narrower and start from there.
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 08 February 2010 - 12:05 PM, said:
ps. how wide is an sss? i've seen that done somewhere...
The 800 arm is too wide for the first gens. The 750 arm will fit in the frame but it has a closed pivot area that can't just be cut and a bearing added to make it open. This requires a different exhaust. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. You can go outside of the Honda world and maybe try a Triumph 675, R6, etc? An NC30 arm will fit but it's short and has no cush drive. Also it's a closed pivot area. If it were me, I'd try to find a 1000R arm. With a wide wheel it will look cool, you can ride it hard with confidence, and you can get to work on other mods.
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 08 February 2010 - 11:22 AM, said:
ok. first dummy test done. 929 swingarm. here are some dimmensions:
swingarm pivot internal: vf 145mm , cbr 190mm
swingarm pivot external: vf 235mm, cbr 290mm
rear wheel axle internal: vf 255mm, cbr 255mm (at least one thing is good lol)
the 929 arm is almost as wide as the vf frame where it pivots. the only thing i can do is take material on the outside and replace it on the inside making sure welds go towards the back as much as possible.
left hand side pivoting point should be easy, but on the right it looks more complicated :(
now you are gonna laugh :D
hence it'd only be a cosmetic mod, why not something like a hugger off a cbr600fl?
i know i know, big talk so far and i'm about to settle on a silly hugger...but they look good and make an impression of a chunky swinger.
little bit of a progress. frame is now powdercoated satin black and ready to take the engine back in. should be in one piece by the weekend.
600rr arm, as you can see laying behind the frame, is much better compared to 929 item, but still too wide/bulky where it mounts. the search continues ;)
managed to pop the engine back where it belongs. still waiting for those 929 forks being sent from canada. it's been 7 weeks already :/
next on the list - starter motor and carbs overhaul...
Once again I have to be the bearer of bad news but the 929 forks are out of the question for these old VF's. They are way too short. They are are significantly shorter than RC51 forks and the RC forks are really too short without a custom triple. I tried the 929 forks before switching to the 51's and I can tell you that, even using the 929 upper, the 929 forks have definite clearance issues and probable handling issues.
hi guys. been a while. sorry.
ok, so after an attempt to fit 929 forks and yokes, and some wise words from kel, i saw what was the matter with them. no go. so, i took it all off, and slotted an fzr1000 exup ru front end in place.
that was pretty straight forward. somehow offset is much better on these fzr triples and allow for more steering lock. that's good. bottom yoke will have to have bump stops adjusted in place, but that's understandable.
bottom race and bearing are virtually identical. top is different, but after stem swap that comes easy.
and that fender came from a 2004 r1/2006 fz1. i think it looks the part.
sorry for poor picture quality.
forgot to say: fzr forks are more than 2" longer than 929 ones.
got another problem, quite a worrying one tbh. when i attempt to start the engine, the starter motor hasn't got enough power to crank it up.
firstly i thought - starter motor - so that's been replaced with a vfr750 one, no success though.
it'll only crank without the compression present ie. spark plugs out. it simply doesn't have enough power to crank thru compression.
so now i'm a bit worried. can it be a bent crank? or sticking piston rings?
it is not too difficult to spin the engine, not light light, but reasonable.
i don't want to take this engine apart again.
ps. all studs are torqued properly, everything cleaned, all oiled...
damn, i'm so happy this engine fired up :) anyway, time for some more mods. next stop - swingarm.
as the front end came off an fzr1000 exup, the rear end will have to match, and it comes off the same model.
now this is a proper swingarm, no more poky skinny rails ;)
it mounts with one axle straight across the frame, so the frame will have to be chopped a little. i did think about cutting the middle section of the swingarm pivot area out, but it'd render it too fragile. a couple of mm will have to be shaved off on each side of the pivot, and bearings pushed a little further in, but that's the easy part. more difficult will be lining up the centered linkage with the off-set shock absorber...
oh yeah, rear pipes will be heading up for an underseat exhaust.
here's a mockup of the thing.
WTF?????? :blink:
do the sprockets LINE UP STRAIGHT???? :comp13:
:laughing6-hehe:
front sprocket needs to come OUT 2mm, either using a spacer or a different bike sprocket, and rear needs to go IN 5mm, meaning 5mm taken off the carrier surface.
[image: View Post]unbalanced, on 10 August 2010 - 08:43 PM, said:
Love the stance, looks great. How are you making out with the upper triple clamp?
it's gonna be a stock fzr1000ru top yoke (triple) with risers and flat bars, best thing being those yokes have factory "fitted" 10mm holes you can use to mount your risers :))
and yeah, stance is good, i'm 6'2" and i'm having difficulties getting ON IT !!! LOL it MAY be too high. so yeah, proper streetfighter stance :))
the back bit of the frame, where you'd have pillion sitting, is gonna go anyway, in which place a seat unit and silencer off a duc 749/999 will come.
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 11 August 2010 - 06:00 AM, said:
front sprocket needs to come OUT 2mm, either using a spacer or a different bike sprocket, and rear needs to go IN 5mm, meaning 5mm taken off the carrier surface.
2mm isn't much, a simple spacer may do it? If not, Kr�ger & Junginger in Germany has some nice offset sprockets in 5, 7 and 9mm. Good products I used on my 1KR.
[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 11 August 2010 - 07:45 PM, said:
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 11 August 2010 - 06:00 AM, said:
front sprocket needs to come OUT 2mm, either using a spacer or a different bike sprocket, and rear needs to go IN 5mm, meaning 5mm taken off the carrier surface.
2mm isn't much, a simple spacer may do it? If not, Kr�ger & Junginger in Germany has some nice offset sprockets in 5, 7 and 9mm. Good products I used on my 1KR.
yeah, that's neat, but at 75euro a bit salty ;) budget is everything on this project. anyway, in the meantime i've put some panels back on to remember what this bike looks like ;) seems very tall now... probably gonna have to lower it a bit...
I`m concerned about the stress on the upper shock mount, seems like it would act as a lever and focus stress on the lower front of the mount? Any way to maybe add a brace or gussets to ease my mind?
[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 21 August 2010 - 10:48 AM, said:
Interesting.
I`m concerned about the stress on the upper shock mount, seems like it would act as a lever and focus stress on the lower front of the mount? Any way to maybe add a brace or gussets to ease my mind?
now that you've said it i might aswell add something to keep it straight, good idea...
anyway, i'm thinking of an exhaust system, can't decide whether to do a 2-1 under the seat and 2-1 on the rhs, or join it into 4-1 somehow. i even tried squeezing front pipes between rearsets and swingarm, but it's a no go on the left where the chain runs.
i need ideas guys!!!
[image: View Post]wlodek1980, on 31 August 2010 - 04:11 PM, said:
[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 21 August 2010 - 10:48 AM, said:
Interesting.
I`m concerned about the stress on the upper shock mount, seems like it would act as a lever and focus stress on the lower front of the mount? Any way to maybe add a brace or gussets to ease my mind?
now that you've said it i might aswell add something to keep it straight, good idea...
anyway, i'm thinking of an exhaust system, can't decide whether to do a 2-1 under the seat and 2-1 on the rhs, or join it into 4-1 somehow. i even tried squeezing front pipes between rearsets and swingarm, but it's a no go on the left where the chain runs.
i need ideas guys!!!
oooh, i love those wheels :)
took some practise to powdercoat big items nicely, but was well worth it.
have a look!!!
btw. i changed the rear wheel over from fzr1000 item to a thunderace one. same dimmensions, but the newer 'ace wheel has much smaller hub and brake disc bolt layout that takes an r6 disc, again much smaller than fzr's. all for good looks :) downside? need an axle spacer now lol
also, exhaust is not too far away now, watch this space :)
sorry for not updating the thread with any info, but at times progress has been slow, really slow, and i didn't want to add any melanholia to this great forum.
anyway, over last two weeks i got a bit angry with myself not pushing things forward, and here's the result.
i reckon another 4 weeks till it's ready for an mot test...
also, this bike has been standing bare frame in my garage for so long i started to regard it as fairly nimble and not small, but managable, only to re-discover fj1200 bulk once i rolled it out and dummy fit some panels. she's a big lady !!!
mods so far:
front end:
FZR1000EXUP forks, yokes, wheel and brake discs
R1 4XV calipers
R6 5EB master cylinder
YZF1000 Thunderace clutch cylinder
B1200 raisers, flat bars
rearsets are chinese made, bolts made of cheese, fairly nicely cnc'd, but lack finesse http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item563e10a583
got them free of charge, so won't complain...
exhaust is going to be twin can, one on each side of the bike, front cylinder pipes going under the sump then left, and rear cylinder pipes back, up , right, around the clutch cover, then back again and into the right hand side end can. should be ok'ish when finished, might lead the front ones on the side of the engine later on for a more uniform look... anyway atm it's gonna be 2-1 and 2-1
all pipes are cut and welded second hand items from vf, r6 and some other manifolds...
some dimmensions of the front end:
ctc circa 215mm
offset circa 30mm
tyre to head distance at sidestand lean circa 70mm
fork tubes top 50
bottom 54
stock vf1000 stem joins them nicely. top fork cap flush.
yokes mount forks in a very wide setup, ithink 929/954 is narrower... doesn't give much steering lock, much more than an old ducati though :D
and THIS! is how I'm gonna spray it :) bellypan made out of two.
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