Clunking in Front end

Hey guys,

I just noticed an odd clunking/clicking in my front end. Lock to lock I can feel no notches or tight points, very smooth and linear effort to turn the bars left to right.

If I hold on the brake and push down to collapse the forks momentarily or when I'm braking hard enough to get a bit of weight transfer to the front end, I feel and hear it. Once on compression and again on the rebound.

Also, when taking off I can hear and feel a clicking thunking, usually about three times or so before it goes away. I'm thinking I need to inspect my wheel bearings as well as the steering neck.

I'm thinking the proper way to check the front wheel bearings is to prop it up under the forks and push/pull the wheel to see if I have any play. Could something be wrong with the brakes? I took them off their hangers, looked for anything out of the ordinary, and reinstalled everything paying attention to torque them properly. I also disassembled, cleaned them thorougly, and changed the pads about 6 months ago when I removed the forks for servicing.

The bike's got over 30k on the odo so I figure I'm just going to replace the steering bearings anyway.

[image: View Post]fastbroshi, on 25 May 2010 - 11:46 PM, said:

Hey guys,

I just noticed an odd clunking/clicking in my front end. Lock to lock I can feel no notches or tight points, very smooth and linear effort to turn the bars left to right.



Are you sure you didn't put the fork springs in the other way around? It "doesn't matter" which way round they go, but more often than not one way makes clunking noises and the other doesn't.

i think your head bearings are a tad loose.. they will turn side to side with not problem.. then clunk when you hit the brakes.

I think I have the identical thing happening on my 4th gen.
When braking, not at first but as more weight gets transferred to the front.

Is tigthening the bearing a simple procedure?

My first thought is steering head bearings.

However, I had a clunking from the suspension when I was riding over bumps. I've just overhauled the forks (new seals and oil, and a thorough cleaning) and I am sure that the previous owner must have used 7 weight fork oil as the fork action was way too stiff before the service. That may have lead to the clunking sound and the blown-out fork seals I had to replace. Note that my 3rd gen bike calls for "Honda SS-7 fork oil" which corresponds to a "85/150" or "very light" fork oil. The bottle I fount (Golden Spectro brand) is labelled 85/150 and very light and also says it's a 2.5 weight, so MUCH lighter than a 7 weight.

Bottom line: My fork action is nice and smooth, and the clunks are gone. What weight of oil is in your forks?

[image: View Post]5thave, on 26 May 2010 - 11:44 AM, said:

My first thought is steering head bearings.

However, I had a clunking from the suspension when I was riding over bumps. I've just overhauled the forks (new seals and oil, and a thorough cleaning) and I am sure that the previous owner must have used 7 weight fork oil as the fork action was way too stiff before the service. That may have lead to the clunking sound and the blown-out fork seals I had to replace. Note that my 3rd gen bike calls for "Honda SS-7 fork oil" which corresponds to a "85/150" or "very light" fork oil. The bottle I fount (Golden Spectro brand) is labelled 85/150 and very light and also says it's a 2.5 weight, so MUCH lighter than a 7 weight.

Bottom line: My fork action is nice and smooth, and the clunks are gone. What weight of oil is in your forks?


Not exactly sure as I sent them off to J. Daugherty to rebuild them. It wasn't doing this immediately after I got them back and reinstalled. I want to try the simplest procedure first, ie tightening the steering bearing.

Looking through the 4th gen steering bearing replacement guide in the guides section, it's not clear wether the top triple will have to come off to do this. Looks as though the top nut may have to be loosened enough to get some space, not sure yet.

I'm thinking I'll have to:
1. Jack up the bike to get the weight off the front end
2. Loosen the handlebars and leave in place
3. Loosen the top stem nut
4. See if I have room to bend the tabs down on the washer on the lock nut

If so I may be able to tighten with a punch. Anyone see a problem with this?

[image: View Post]fastbroshi, on 31 May 2010 - 05:49 AM, said:

[image: View Post]5thave, on 26 May 2010 - 11:44 AM, said:

My first thought is steering head bearings.

However, I had a clunking from the suspension when I was riding over bumps. I've just overhauled the forks (new seals and oil, and a thorough cleaning) and I am sure that the previous owner must have used 7 weight fork oil as the fork action was way too stiff before the service. That may have lead to the clunking sound and the blown-out fork seals I had to replace. Note that my 3rd gen bike calls for "Honda SS-7 fork oil" which corresponds to a "85/150" or "very light" fork oil. The bottle I fount (Golden Spectro brand) is labelled 85/150 and very light and also says it's a 2.5 weight, so MUCH lighter than a 7 weight.

Bottom line: My fork action is nice and smooth, and the clunks are gone. What weight of oil is in your forks?


Not exactly sure as I sent them off to J. Daugherty to rebuild them. It wasn't doing this immediately after I got them back and reinstalled. I want to try the simplest procedure first, ie tightening the steering bearing.

Looking through the 4th gen steering bearing replacement guide in the guides section, it's not clear wether the top triple will have to come off to do this. Looks as though the top nut may have to be loosened enough to get some space, not sure yet.

I'm thinking I'll have to:
1. Jack up the bike to get the weight off the front end
2. Loosen the handlebars and leave in place
3. Loosen the top stem nut
4. See if I have room to bend the tabs down on the washer on the lock nut

If so I may be able to tighten with a punch. Anyone see a problem with this?

I'd suggest, since you're going to loosen the clipons and upper triple, just slip them off out of the way, will be much easier to get to both steering nuts.

[image: View Post]gll429, on 26 May 2010 - 02:17 AM, said:

i think your head bearings are a tad loose.. they will turn side to side with not problem.. then clunk when you hit the brakes.


:+1: My '96 CBR 1KF was having the same issue. I tried to save a buck and took it to a independent service shop with the problem. They called to tell me the bike had been wrecked and needed a new triple tree. I was there so fast...Watched them put the fairings on and rode to my Honda dealer. The rode it, came back and said the head bearings were loose. Picked it up the next day and was told no damage could be found. Since then, no clunks when applying brakes or over bumps.

Your clunking problem could be a very simple one; I recently solved the same problem on my 4th gen at 50K miles. The clunking under braking for my bike was a result of worn rubber grommets that the brake caliper adapter fits into when mounting the adapter to the caliper. There are two grommets per side P/N 45133-MA3-006 and 45132-166-016. Should cost you about $17 for all four. In order to install them you will need to unbolt the calipers from the fork legs, remove the pads and slide the mounting adapter out from the caliper. Replace the grommets and reinstall.

I think I have the same thing on my 4th gen. The steering head bearings are shot. I doubt tightening will solve the problem. You will have to take the top triple off to loosen/tighten them, but it's not that big of a chore to take the top off.

[image: View Post]fastbroshi, on 31 May 2010 - 05:49 AM, said:

Looking through the 4th gen steering bearing replacement guide in the guides section, it's not clear wether the top triple will have to come off to do this. Looks as though the top nut may have to be loosened enough to get some space, not sure yet.

I'm thinking I'll have to:
1. Jack up the bike to get the weight off the front end
2. Loosen the handlebars and leave in place
3. Loosen the top stem nut
4. See if I have room to bend the tabs down on the washer on the lock nut

If so I may be able to tighten with a punch. Anyone see a problem with this?


My first guess is also steering head bearings. Checking them is an easy process and has one of 3 outcomes:

1 - This is your problem and you will fix it by tightening.
2 - This is your problem and, you attempt to fix it by tightening only to find out that you can now feel the notches from wear and the "clunking".
3 - Your problem lies elsewhere.

Quickest way to check, is to put the bike on the centerstand and have a helper put their weight on the back of the bike, thus relieving the front and holding it in the air. Now you will grab one fork leg in each hand near the axle while squatting in front of the bike, and apply a front-back motion. If you hear clicking/clunking, and you feel the forks moving front-back, you need to tighten your bearings.

It could also be a loose caliper bolt, but that would really only be heard under braking.

I'm definitely leaning towards the bearings, as if I lay on the brakes and keep them on until stopped, the I'll feel and hear what's going on during compression AND rebound of the forks. If it were those rubber boots (and I'm not ruling out, just rationalizing here), wouldn't they just do it at a certain point while using the brakes, say at a certain threshold of force exerted? Wow that got kinda nerdy.

The first item to check is the steering head bearing for tightness if you experience a clunk during braking...

[image: View Post]fastbroshi, on 03 June 2010 - 11:33 AM, said:

I'm definitely leaning towards the bearings, as if I lay on the brakes and keep them on until stopped, the I'll feel and hear what's going on during compression AND rebound of the forks. If it were those rubber boots (and I'm not ruling out, just rationalizing here), wouldn't they just do it at a certain point while using the brakes, say at a certain threshold of force exerted? Wow that got kinda nerdy.

Mine's doing the same thing, under medium to heavy braking just before coming to a stop, it 'clunk, clunk, clunks'.

[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 03 June 2010 - 02:38 PM, said:

[image: View Post]fastbroshi, on 03 June 2010 - 11:33 AM, said:

I'm definitely leaning towards the bearings, as if I lay on the brakes and keep them on until stopped, the I'll feel and hear what's going on during compression AND rebound of the forks. If it were those rubber boots (and I'm not ruling out, just rationalizing here), wouldn't they just do it at a certain point while using the brakes, say at a certain threshold of force exerted? Wow that got kinda nerdy.

Mine's doing the same thing, under medium to heavy braking just before coming to a stop, it 'clunk, clunk, clunks'.


I wouldn't go that far describing mine. If yours is clunking and making noises repeatedly that may be another subject. Maybe the wheels?

[image: View Post]fastbroshi, on 03 June 2010 - 07:31 PM, said:

[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 03 June 2010 - 02:38 PM, said:

[image: View Post]fastbroshi, on 03 June 2010 - 11:33 AM, said:

I'm definitely leaning towards the bearings, as if I lay on the brakes and keep them on until stopped, the I'll feel and hear what's going on during compression AND rebound of the forks. If it were those rubber boots (and I'm not ruling out, just rationalizing here), wouldn't they just do it at a certain point while using the brakes, say at a certain threshold of force exerted? Wow that got kinda nerdy.

Mine's doing the same thing, under medium to heavy braking just before coming to a stop, it 'clunk, clunk, clunks'.


I wouldn't go that far describing mine. If yours is clunking and making noises repeatedly that may be another subject. Maybe the wheels?

It's a rapid clunking vibration through the front end just as I'm coming to a stop under hard braking. The harder the braking the more severe the feedback through the front end. That's not what you're having?

Hmm, maybe it's my ABS kicking in..on my 5th gen. :laughing6-hehe: (That's actually what it feels like, ABS feedback - anyway, I'll stop stealing your thread. :biggrin: )

[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 04 June 2010 - 12:07 AM, said:

[
It's a rapid clunking vibration through the front end just as I'm coming to a stop under hard braking. The harder the braking the more severe the feedback through the front end. That's not what you're having?

Hmm, maybe it's my ABS kicking in..on my 5th gen. :laughing6-hehe: (That's actually what it feels like, ABS feedback - anyway, I'll stop stealing your thread. :biggrin: )


No not at all. It's two distinct clicks or clunks. Once on compression of the forks, once on rebound. I can to it standing still if I just hold the brake and bounce them. And I don't have a floor jack right now so I'm going to see if my pitbull neck stand will do the job. It's the one with the pin that goes up through the steering stem. Thinking it through, that will put the weight of the bike on the lower bearing and want to push the neck up somewhat, especially as those two rings are loosened/retightened.

The clunking you hear is probably the gas tank fuel level float moving when the fuel sloshes forward. I have had several bike owners come to my shop for this.

[image: View Post]Grayghost08, on 04 June 2010 - 05:28 AM, said:

The clunking you hear is probably the gas tank fuel level float moving when the fuel sloshes forward. I have had several bike owners come to my shop for this.


Wow, seriously? I'll take it into consideration but I doubt that's it. I'm not braking THAT hard all the time to where I might dislodge anything. If I tighten the bearings and nothing changes I'll take the tank off to see if if goes away.

I'll also add I've had no problems with my fuel guage.

[image: View Post]Grayghost08, on 04 June 2010 - 05:28 AM, said:

The clunking you hear is probably the gas tank fuel level float moving when the fuel sloshes forward. I have had several bike owners come to my shop for this.


4th Gen VFRS?



I feel a distinct click through the right handlebar.... and the bikeshop owner did check for free play on the font.....

I'll see if I can follow up on the rubber grommet thingie.... the clicking started of new tires were mounted. The front incorrect at first as the tyre was put in the rim the wrong way round. At first the wheel would fit with the spacers (sinde the wheel was incorrect).

[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 04 June 2010 - 12:07 AM, said:

[image: View Post]fastbroshi, on 03 June 2010 - 07:31 PM, said:

[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 03 June 2010 - 02:38 PM, said:

[image: View Post]fastbroshi, on 03 June 2010 - 11:33 AM, said:

I'm definitely leaning towards the bearings, as if I lay on the brakes and keep them on until stopped, the I'll feel and hear what's going on during compression AND rebound of the forks. If it were those rubber boots (and I'm not ruling out, just rationalizing here), wouldn't they just do it at a certain point while using the brakes, say at a certain threshold of force exerted? Wow that got kinda nerdy.

Mine's doing the same thing, under medium to heavy braking just before coming to a stop, it 'clunk, clunk, clunks'.


I wouldn't go that far describing mine. If yours is clunking and making noises repeatedly that may be another subject. Maybe the wheels?

It's a rapid clunking vibration through the front end just as I'm coming to a stop under hard braking. The harder the braking the more severe the feedback through the front end. That's not what you're having?

Hmm, maybe it's my ABS kicking in..on my 5th gen. :laughing6-hehe: (That's actually what it feels like, ABS feedback - anyway, I'll stop stealing your thread. :biggrin: )



Well i have this clunking sound, havent checked the bearings yet but i also had what felt like abs feedback, i just thought the two were connected but on inspection of the bakes i found that ALL the allen bolts had come loose on the near side brake disc, after tightening them the abs feedback stopped but the cluncking remained, will check the bearings and the rubber gromits, if i lean over the front when braking ( make sure you do it on a quiet road lol) it most defo sounds like its coming from a caliper.

Your brake rotors could be the source of the clunking. The rotors are two piece floating rotors held together with ten flanged "rivets". Feel your rotors and see if there is any slack or movement between the two parts. I experienced this on a GSXR600 once, but it was high mileage. My VFR has 53K on it and they are still very snug.

I was able to get in there and work on it today. Looks like the bearings were in fact loose. After I took off the top triple and the top nut was just sitting there, I could spin it with my fingers. Is this correct? I spun it off and tightened up the bottom one a little and put the top back on. Put the triple back on, slid the legs back up in there and torqued everything down. Took it for a ride around the block and the clunking is gone.

I'm probably going to get some tapered bearings for in the future just in case. Thanks for all the replies fellas.

[image: View Post]fastbroshi, on 11 June 2010 - 02:51 PM, said:

I was able to get in there and work on it today. Looks like the bearings were in fact loose. After I took off the top triple and the top nut was just sitting there, I could spin it with my fingers. Is this correct? I spun it off and tightened up the bottom one a little and put the top back on. Put the triple back on, slid the legs back up in there and torqued everything down. Took it for a ride around the block and the clunking is gone.

I'm probably going to get some tapered bearings for in the future just in case. Thanks for all the replies fellas.


There are 2 nuts under the triple - the upper one should be a little more than finger tight, and held in place with the tabbed locking ring against the lower nut. The lower nut, when used with ball bearings, has a high torque spec that you will not achieve by hand... but that's ok. Ride it carefully for now and get your replacements on order.

Do some searching here to find out how to make a tool from a socket for proper tightening of the lower nut. Steering stem tool/steering bearing tool... I know veefer800canuck has the info somewhere. I bought the Honda tool for $80, but I use it a lot, so for me was worth it.

***Do NOT use the torque spec for ball bearings on your tapered roller bearings! They will be so bound up that they won't move!*** The lower nut referred to above can be hand-tightened for tapered bearings, but you still need the tool to set a high torque, then back off and set tightness by hand(properly done w/ a spring scale). Have a look at the procedure in the service manual & ask any questions!

I'm wondering if there's a copy of the actual service manual somewhere on the site, not the 16mb Adobe file I keep finding everywhere. The service manual is the one that goes into more detail yes? Anyone know if we have a copy of this?:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...lsQ5fLiterature

My clunking is gone.

Having owned the bike from new I recently marked 60,000kms and not having followed Honda's recommended service intervals anyway, I decided to have a bikeshop look at the bearings in the headstock.
They've never been looked at and sure enough, the OEM ball bearings were rusty, not much grease left and a distinct dead spot was found.

New, tapered roller ones were fitted (Honda OEMS are still ball type) and the clunking is gone and the steering feels smoother on the short ride home.

:cheerleader:


Whilst in the shop, I had them look at something that had not been touched in almost 13 years either, the carb setup/synchronisation. I just wanted to know.
Well, they were still very close to what the mechanic would still consider "ok" he adjusted only slightly. So there you go, Honda quality at work!

[image: View Post]fastbroshi, on 12 June 2010 - 12:24 PM, said:

I'm wondering if there's a copy of the actual service manual somewhere on the site, not the 16mb Adobe file I keep finding everywhere. The service manual is the one that goes into more detail yes? Anyone know if we have a copy of this?:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...lsQ5fLiterature



I have a 4th Gen manual, sharing through Dropbox, get a free account with this spam-free link;

http://www.dropbox.c...ls/NTM2NTczMzM5

And I'll send you the public link for the manual.

*Using this link gives me more referral credits which means more space for me to share manuals!, Karma! :beer:

PS: My 4th gen developed a clunk in the front end at 30k miles also. It was the wheel bearings, but I had serviced the headstock when I got it at 12k miles, so maybe I lengthened the bearings' life there.