VFR1200 PAIR removal

I've removed the PAIR (or smog pump) from the last 3 Honda sportbikes I've owned, as well as my CRF250X dirtbike. It isn't really a performance-increasing modification but it removes a lot of clutter from the engine compartment, making servicing easier. And it gets rid of the popping on closed throttle. It also makes the bike easier to tune with an air/fuel reading taken at the exhaust. It's a purely vaccuum-run system with no wires so you don't have to worry about any trouble codes from the ECU when you take it out.

I've been waiting for someone to develop a plate to block off the PAIR ports on the 1200 but after studying the parts diagrams I think I've got a solution.

The front cylinder head appears to have the same size and shape of (double-valve) PAIR port that is used on all of the CBRs. The rear cylinder head has 2 smaller PAIR ports which appear to be the same as the ones on the RC-51.

I ordered up a CBR kit and a RC51 kit from Kyle Racing. I might not get around to installing them until winter but I'm 99.99% sure they're the right ones. I'll bump this thread with a link to my blog post when it's all done.

I have only one concern... the 1200 has a 02 sensor at the exhaust collector. I wonder how the computer will interpret the altered oxygen readings? Will it interpret the reduced oxygen in the exhaust as a "rich" condition?

I went ahead and removed the PAIR system. A bit tricky compared to a CBR, but not too bad.

http://vfr1200fa.blo...ir-removal.html

[image: View Post]notinline, on 08 October 2010 - 09:20 AM, said:

[image: View Post]phobe, on 07 October 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

I went ahead and removed the PAIR system. A bit tricky compared to a CBR, but not too bad.

http://vfr1200fa.blo...ir-removal.html


Thanks for the post.

Does the manual identify the name of the two white plastic pieces inside the airbox along with their function?



Those are resonators. Quite common on cars... look at your car's intake tube and you'll see pods of different sizes and shapes popping uot of them. They're meant to "tune" the intake noise.

[image: View Post]phobe, on 07 October 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

I went ahead and removed the PAIR system. A bit tricky compared to a CBR, but not too bad.

http://vfr1200fa.blo...ir-removal.html


So what exactly are you trying to achieve by removing this system? Do you actually understand what it does in the first place?

[image: View Post]Tamworth, on 08 October 2010 - 03:37 PM, said:

[image: View Post]phobe, on 07 October 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

I went ahead and removed the PAIR system. A bit tricky compared to a CBR, but not too bad.

http://vfr1200fa.blo...ir-removal.html


So what exactly are you trying to achieve by removing this system? Do you actually understand what it does in the first place?



I believe that if you click this link you would find out that he knows a thing or two about what he is doing.

http://vfr1200fa.blo...ir-removal.html

[image: View Post]Tamworth, on 08 October 2010 - 03:37 PM, said:

[image: View Post]phobe, on 07 October 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

I went ahead and removed the PAIR system. A bit tricky compared to a CBR, but not too bad.

http://vfr1200fa.blo...ir-removal.html


So what exactly are you trying to achieve by removing this system? Do you actually understand what it does in the first place?



I think I contribute some good content but if this is the kind of bullshit I'm gonna get here I'm just not going to bother anymore.

Honda has always had a great bike in the VFR... too bad it seems to appeal broadly to anal retentive obsessive retard assholes.

[image: View Post]phobe, on 08 October 2010 - 05:19 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Tamworth, on 08 October 2010 - 03:37 PM, said:

[image: View Post]phobe, on 07 October 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

I went ahead and removed the PAIR system. A bit tricky compared to a CBR, but not too bad.

http://vfr1200fa.blo...ir-removal.html


So what exactly are you trying to achieve by removing this system? Do you actually understand what it does in the first place?



I think I contribute some good content but if this is the kind of bullshit I'm gonna get here I'm just not going to bother anymore.

Honda has always had a great bike in the VFR... too bad it seems to appeal broadly to anal retentive obsessive retard assholes.


I read your post and you made it sound like you know exactly what you're doing and why. Don't let one bent spoke push you away. This site offers me more information on issues I didn't even know I needed to think about and it's folks who know what they are talking about that keep it so valuable. Stick around.

hope it all works out!

keep us informed


:+1:

so how much did the pair stuff end up in wieght saving? lot of rubber tubing, a valve, the carbon collector?

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 08 October 2010 - 06:13 PM, said:

so how much did the pair stuff end up in wieght saving? lot of rubber tubing, a valve, the carbon collector?



Weight saving... not so much. A pound at best. I didn't touch the carbon collector, that's an entirely different system. I suppose if you yarded out the entire evap emissions system you could lose a couple pounds. It's tied into the ECU though so might not be worth the effort.

[image: View Post]phobe, on 08 October 2010 - 05:19 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Tamworth, on 08 October 2010 - 03:37 PM, said:

[image: View Post]phobe, on 07 October 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

I went ahead and removed the PAIR system. A bit tricky compared to a CBR, but not too bad.

http://vfr1200fa.blo...ir-removal.html


So what exactly are you trying to achieve by removing this system? Do you actually understand what it does in the first place?



I think I contribute some good content but if this is the kind of bullshit I'm gonna get here I'm just not going to bother anymore.

Honda has always had a great bike in the VFR... too bad it seems to appeal broadly to anal retentive obsessive retard assholes.


Whoa, jeez, take a few breaths there. I'm trying to determine if this mod is a good thing or a bad thing. Lets hear the pros and cons of this mod before someone less knowledgeable starts tearing into their bike. A lot of people obsessively carry out every mod they read about without knowing all the facts.

Tam, it was the second sentence in your first post that brought all the scorn upon you. With all due respect, your follow up post says you were "trying to determine if this mod is a good thing or a bad thing" which many (myself, for example) would interpret as CYA, made after the initial post. If you are trying to "determine" something about PAIR removal, what logic leads one to originally question if the OP "actually understand"(s) in the first place?

Me? I know squat about bikes. I can change the oil, pads, perhaps lift the tank and clean the air filter if I'm feeling my (mechanical) oats.

But, there are major tinkerers here on this site, and though I don't understand what they hell they are doing at first, I keep mum and observe.

Best mod ever? The TOROCHARGER.

Quote

Do you actually understand what it does in the first place?


later...

Quote

Whoa, jeez, take a few breaths there. I'm trying to determine if this mod is a good thing or a bad thing..

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 08 October 2010 - 06:13 PM, said:

so how much did the pair stuff end up in wieght saving? lot of rubber tubing, a valve, the carbon collector?



Just reading the diagrams... it looks like the EVAP solenoid (like the PAIR solenoid) doesn't have a MIL / DTC number. So I might just yank that out too.

I'm curious, how much pollution does the pair system eliminates vs. the having the system removed from the bike? Is it just a minimal amount?

[image: View Post]stinkyfinger, on 10 October 2010 - 11:17 PM, said:

I'm curious, how much pollution does the pair system eliminates vs. the having the system removed from the bike? Is it just a minimal amount?



Just enough to pass emissions tests. ;)

[image: View Post]phobe, on 11 October 2010 - 12:11 AM, said:

[image: View Post]stinkyfinger, on 10 October 2010 - 11:17 PM, said:

I'm curious, how much pollution does the pair system eliminates vs. the having the system removed from the bike? Is it just a minimal amount?



Just enough to pass emissions tests. ;)


I have derestricted the 1st and 2nd gear power limitations. I have made a simple scematic :

[image: Attached Image: GPS mod.jpg]

[image: Attached Image: Gearposition sensor VFR1200f.jpg]

You will have more fun with this mod then with a pair removal :laughing6-hehe:

[image: View Post]Dutchgixxer, on 11 October 2010 - 11:51 AM, said:

[image: View Post]phobe, on 11 October 2010 - 12:11 AM, said:

[image: View Post]stinkyfinger, on 10 October 2010 - 11:17 PM, said:

I'm curious, how much pollution does the pair system eliminates vs. the having the system removed from the bike? Is it just a minimal amount?



Just enough to pass emissions tests. ;)


I have derestricted the 1st and 2nd gear power limitations. I have made a simple scematic :

[image: Attached Image: GPS mod.jpg]

[image: Attached Image: Gearposition sensor VFR1200f.jpg]

You will have more fun with this mod then with a pair removal :laughing6-hehe:

So does the gear indicator on the dash give you a false reading now?

[image: View Post]Dutchgixxer, on 11 October 2010 - 11:51 AM, said:

I have derestricted the 1st and 2nd gear power limitations. I have made a simple scematic :

[image: Attachment] GPS mod.jpg

[image: Attachment] Gearposition sensor VFR1200f.jpg

You will have more fun with this mod then with a pair removal :laughing6-hehe:


For sure!

I think this merits a new thread. I'd also like to know if it gives you a false gear indicator reading?

edit: It looks like you put 2 splices in the 3rd gear wire and ran them to the pins for first and second. Certainly you must get a false reading on the indicator in first and second... If a guy were really ambitious you could wire in a switch between the 2 maps.

[image: View Post]Dutchgixxer, on 11 October 2010 - 11:51 AM, said:

You will have more fun with this mod then with a pair removal :laughing6-hehe:



I still had the bike apart so I did this mod tonight. Basically you're telling the ECU that the bike is in 3rd gear when it's in 1st and 2nd. So I'm sure the readout will be incorrect on the indicator but only in first and second.

I took pictures so I'll detail the mod on my blog. Looking forward to riding it with the change.

Yes will get a falsh reading in the dash. In 1 st and 2nd the dash will show you are in 3th. I am busy decoding the serial link between ecu and dash.
So i will work it out. But first tell me youre experience with the mod :biggrin: pictures please

[image: View Post]phobe, on 07 September 2010 - 10:53 AM, said:

The front cylinder head appears to have the same size and shape of (double-valve) PAIR port that is used on all of the CBRs. The rear cylinder head has 2 smaller PAIR ports which appear to be the same as the ones on the RC-51.

Can I buy the extra CBR plate from you? Say half of what you paid plus a stamp?

[image: View Post]warrenjrose, on 03 November 2010 - 07:07 PM, said:

[image: View Post]phobe, on 07 September 2010 - 10:53 AM, said:

The front cylinder head appears to have the same size and shape of (double-valve) PAIR port that is used on all of the CBRs. The rear cylinder head has 2 smaller PAIR ports which appear to be the same as the ones on the RC-51.

Can I buy the extra CBR plate from you? Say half of what you paid plus a stamp?


Sure... I don't need it. PM me your address. I'll send it free. Pay it forward.

[image: View Post]phobe, on 03 November 2010 - 08:06 PM, said:

Sure... I don't need it. PM me your address. I'll send it free. Pay it forward.

Sent.

[image: View Post]warrenjrose, on 04 November 2010 - 11:41 AM, said:

[image: View Post]phobe, on 03 November 2010 - 08:06 PM, said:

Sure... I don't need it. PM me your address. I'll send it free. Pay it forward.

Sent.


Arrived, you're awesome!!!

[image: View Post]phobe, on 08 October 2010 - 05:19 PM, said:

I think I contribute some good content but if this is the kind of bullshit I'm gonna get here I'm just not going to bother anymore.

Honda has always had a great bike in the VFR... too bad it seems to appeal broadly to anal retentive obsessive retard assholes.

Nah, that's just the 1200... :laughing6-hehe:

Ciao,

[image: View Post]JZH, on 16 November 2010 - 05:34 PM, said:

.

Honda has always had a great bike in the VFR... too bad it seems to appeal broadly to anal retentive obsessive retard assholes.


Nah, that's just the 1200... :laughing6-hehe:

Ciao,


Touche. ;)

Phobe, you are the only one i have seen diving into their 1200.

How easy are the common service items, like spark plugs? I see the rear deck looking pretty easy, but is there enough room to get to the front plugs easily? Are the fairings simple to get on and off? I like the offset oil filter, which is good. What about final drive oil?

Thanks!

[image: View Post]Stridercal, on 22 November 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

Phobe, you are the only one i have seen diving into their 1200.

How easy are the common service items, like spark plugs? I see the rear deck looking pretty easy, but is there enough room to get to the front plugs easily? Are the fairings simple to get on and off? I like the offset oil filter, which is good. What about final drive oil?

Thanks!


It's really not that bad. There is a plastic cover over the front cylinder head that's a bit of a bitch to pry out, but once that's out there's enough room to get at the plugs.

Final drive service is easy as pie. I have an earlier blog entry about it...I put some Motul synth in mine.

[image: View Post]phobe, on 08 October 2010 - 05:19 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Tamworth, on 08 October 2010 - 03:37 PM, said:

[image: View Post]phobe, on 07 October 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

I went ahead and removed the PAIR system. A bit tricky compared to a CBR, but not too bad.

http://vfr1200fa.blo...ir-removal.html


So what exactly are you trying to achieve by removing this system? Do you actually understand what it does in the first place?



I think I contribute some good content but if this is the kind of bullshit I'm gonna get here I'm just not going to bother anymore.

Honda has always had a great bike in the VFR... too bad it seems to appeal broadly to anal retentive obsessive retard assholes.



It's futile here at VFRD .

My VFR1200F was more welcome at a Hayabusa website where folks love new innovations along with absorbing hard data , tips and tricks.

Just saying , it's not you . Thanks for your posts.

Phobe:

Have you been around any ST1300's enough to determine if Honda used any parts from the ST on the new VFR1200? It would seem like they would have a lot in common in the final drive area.

Pete

[image: View Post]Pete McCrary, on 16 December 2010 - 04:11 PM, said:

Phobe:

Have you been around any ST1300's enough to determine if Honda used any parts from the ST on the new VFR1200? It would seem like they would have a lot in common in the final drive area.

Pete


I haven't been around a lot of ST1300s but I can say for certain that they have almost nothing in common, especially the final drive. The ST is a longitudinal motor, completely different arrangement.

I did the pair mod on my RC51's, and was going to do it on my CBR1000, I think I gave the Dan Kyle block off plates with the bike; darn.
I like that the PAIR mod removes junk and gives more space to work on the innards of the bike.

[image: View Post]phobe, on 07 September 2010 - 10:53 AM, said:

I've removed the PAIR (or smog pump) from the last 3 Honda sportbikes I've owned, as well as my CRF250X dirtbike. It isn't really a performance-increasing modification but it removes a lot of clutter from the engine compartment, making servicing easier. And it gets rid of the popping on closed throttle. It also makes the bike easier to tune with an air/fuel reading taken at the exhaust. It's a purely vaccuum-run system with no wires so you don't have to worry about any trouble codes from the ECU when you take it out.

I've been waiting for someone to develop a plate to block off the PAIR ports on the 1200 but after studying the parts diagrams I think I've got a solution.

The front cylinder head appears to have the same size and shape of (double-valve) PAIR port that is used on all of the CBRs. The rear cylinder head has 2 smaller PAIR ports which appear to be the same as the ones on the RC-51.

I ordered up a CBR kit and a RC51 kit from Kyle Racing. I might not get around to installing them until winter but I'm 99.99% sure they're the right ones. I'll bump this thread with a link to my blog post when it's all done.

I have only one concern... the 1200 has a 02 sensor at the exhaust collector. I wonder how the computer will interpret the altered oxygen readings? Will it interpret the reduced oxygen in the exhaust as a "rich" condition?


Disabling the PAIR system on VFR800�s is a common practice.
It seems to be a common practice for most bikes with a PAIR system.
Local Honda dealer does it as part of their PD.

Supposedly, the injection of fresh air confuses the O2 sensors.

Did you notice any improvement to low speed throttle response or driveability?

Did you have to increase your idle speed following removal?

I blocked the PAIR system on my VFR800 recently and noticed an improvement in throttle response when transitioning between closed and open throttle at low speeds. Prior to this, negotiating roundabouts and tight corners was a real problem.

Now much improved but not completely.

Others report some improvement as well, others nothing.

Need some more time to be sure the tweak works.

I also read that the O2 injection gets the cat up to temp quicker. I am somewhat concerned that if the cat does not get hot enough, it may in time block up some and become more restrictive. Maybe a good thrashing now and again will fix this issue. An �Italian� tune up I have heard it referred as.

[image: View Post]Pete McCrary, on 16 December 2010 - 04:11 PM, said:

Phobe:

Have you been around any ST1300's enough to determine if Honda used any parts from the ST on the new VFR1200? It would seem like they would have a lot in common in the final drive area.

Pete


Pete,

I'm afraid they're nothing alike as far as final drive mechanicals go.

Cheers,
Smithy.

I didn't notice any change in driveability or throttle behavior.

The O2 does indeed light the catalyst quicker, but I think the reason for that is to improve the reaction of the catalyst, not to move more gas through it. I can't see why it would plug up any sooner with or without it... but I'm not an engineer nor do I play one on TV.

When I eventually get around to installing a PCV and getting an autotune, the PAIR removal will come in handy.

[image: View Post]phobe, on 04 May 2011 - 07:19 PM, said:

I didn't notice any change in driveability or throttle behavior.

The O2 does indeed light the catalyst quicker, but I think the reason for that is to improve the reaction of the catalyst, not to move more gas through it. I can't see why it would plug up any sooner with or without it... but I'm not an engineer nor do I play one on TV.

When I eventually get around to installing a PCV and getting an autotune, the PAIR removal will come in handy.


Forget the auto tune! spend your money on a decent custom map !
just my 2 cents :fing02: