1998 VFR 800, previous owner said he swapped in a 2000 wiring harness
Rode fine for about 8km, got to a red light, died. Tried to start and only got a click from under the seat. Pushed it off the road onto the sidewalk, waited a few minutes, clicked the starter again and it started idled and revved fine. As soon as I moved it about 5 feet and got ready to get on the road it died again. Got a jump start a bit later from my Grandpa (his car was off), started and idled fine until moving about 5 feet again. Towed it home, when I got home I hooked it up to a multimeter which read 17.5-18.3v with the bike turned off. While cranking the starter it would drop to 15 then go back up to 17.5-18.3v. Hoping that my multimeter is not broken, ideas?
The R/R connectors were melted and the stator wires charred, re soldered all of them and taped them back up. Checked all the fuses and all were ok. Now when the starter is pressed I only get a click. Jump starting did not work, battery swap did not work (other battery starts my other bike fine). Swapped the starter relay with the one that came spare with my bike, did not help. All the lights on the bike come on no problem. Ordered a VFRness, stator hardwire kit, and new R/R connectors.
This is my only mode of transport now that insurance and plate was taken off the other bike :(
UPDATE:
Now the bike runs ok with no break light bulbs plugged in, as soon as you turn the bike off, plug them in, and turn it on, it wants to stall. Mechanic thinks it is the R/R as someone at honda canada told him that the stock one controls the fuel pump??
Your got some pretty funky numbers for voltage. You sure with the bike not running you got 17.5 Volts? Crazy weird. Check again.
But what obvious going on is your R/R is toast, and its been frying all the nice wires in you bike.
--Dont ride it anymore untill you replace it. In the mean time, go through al the wires and check condition. Fix anything that looks burnt.
- Check out the stator too.
- Charge battery and take it to be load tested. Chances are the R/R fried that too.
http://www.vfrdiscus...__fromsearch__1
mello dude
Your got some pretty funky numbers for voltage. You sure with the bike not running you got 17.5 Volts? Crazy weird. Check again.
But what obvious going on is your R/R is toast, and its been frying all the nice wires in you bike.
--Dont ride it anymore untill you replace it. In the mean time, go through al the wires and check condition. Fix anything that looks burnt.
- Check out the stator too.
- Charge battery and take it to be load tested. Chances are the R/R fried that too.
http://www.vfrdiscus...__fromsearch__1
Buying a new R/R local soon, yes I am sure it was not running the key was not even in the ignition.
-Already fixed the only ones that looked burnt, and ordered new connectors/hardwire kit/VFRness
-How do I check the stator if the bike does not run? (just read your link, grr wish i tried that before I soldered the connections)
-Canadian Tire (battery is a Motomaster Eliminator 12-BS) offered an exchange already but don't have the exact battery in stock. What other batteries will work on the vfr?
Start with getting a good battery. Generally batteries are based on size. There are a lot of options.
Stator checks - pull connector and check pin to pin. Set for resistance. Should be less than 1.0 -- Check each pin to ground. - Should be infinity.
Next you need the bike running. Pin to pin, volts VA. Should start 15ish and rise to 60ish + with revs.
If the bike wont start, you may have other problems.
Btw - dont waste your money on a Honda OEM R/R part. Check into previous links. You should look into a MOSFET style or a Compufire part.
GL
mello dude
Start with getting a good battery. Generally batteries are based on size. There are a lot of options.
Stator checks - pull connector and check pin to pin. Set for resistance. Should be less than 1.0 -- Check each pin to ground. - Should be infinity.
Next you need the bike running. Pin to pin, volts VA. Should start 15ish and rise to 60ish + with revs.
If the bike wont start, you may have other problems.
Btw - dont waste your money on a Honda OEM R/R part. Check into previous links. You should look into a MOSFET style or a Compufire part.
GL
Getting a SHINDENGEN FH0122AA. Will try a new multimeter, but my current one reads 1.0 on all 3 for resistance and the battery was too low to check the grounds
silverbullet132
Getting a SHINDENGEN FH0122AA. Will try a new multimeter, but my current one reads 1.0 on all 3 for resistance and the battery was too low to check the grounds
...?
You don't need voltage to make sure that your grounds are good.
YoshiHNS
silverbullet132
Getting a SHINDENGEN FH0122AA. Will try a new multimeter, but my current one reads 1.0 on all 3 for resistance and the battery was too low to check the grounds
...?
You don't need voltage to make sure that your grounds are good.
I meant the battery on the multimeter
Changed the battery in my multimeter, it now reads 0.7-0.8 ohms on the 3 wires coming from the stator and 0 continuity on all 3. Battery also now reads 12.5v.
Another update:
-Battery reads 12.75v
-Leak tested, meter reads 0.8mA
-The harness side of the R/R connector positives read 12.75v (positive lead on the red/white and common lead on the frame)
-Continuity between the harness side of the R/R connector negatives and the ground connector on the right side of the frame
Did the fella tell you why he swapped the harness? Was it done right?
Looks like it was, and he said it was done because the lights etc would randomly not work which is supposedly very common
Sounds like the R/R is kicking the bucket. Mine will get hot and sometimes when I pull in the clutch, the bike will just die. It'll act as if the battery is dead until it cools down enough.
rangerscott69
Sounds like the R/R is kicking the bucket. Mine will get hot and sometimes when I pull in the clutch, the bike will just die. It'll act as if the battery is dead until it cools down enough.
Someone local has the FH0122AA, so I will add that in once my VFRness gets here. How long does wiremybike typically take to ship them out?
I dont know. Thats Tightwads site.
Hopefully not too long...and hopefully VFRness/new R/R/new battery fixes this problem, the few minutes it did work this bike was PERFECT
I hope the crook batteries in your multimeter meant the charging figures were wrong? I believe the PGM FI controller is not too fond of high voltages (not trying to panic you but it has to be considered). How many K's did the previous owner rattle up on his 'new' wiring harness before you picked it up?
swas
I hope the crook batteries in your multimeter meant the charging figures were wrong? I believe the PGM FI controller is not too fond of high voltages (not trying to panic you but it has to be considered). How many K's did the previous owner rattle up on his 'new' wiring harness before you picked it up?
Not too sure how many he put on the harness, and the multimeter was never hooked up while the bike was able to run. As so, I have no charging voltages.
Swapped the battery with a known good one, still just a click. Hopefully the new R/R fixes this, if not, what could it be? Have already swapped the starter relay.
By the way - Shindengen is stock Honda (but I'm not sure of the model number for a VFR800).
If a know good battery won't start the bike, it cannot be the R/R (although it too nay be bad) because if it us nor running it has nothing to regulate or rectify. Sounds like it is the harness to me. BTW... My 5th gen has 43000 miles with stock everything. No failures.
timmythecop
If a know good battery won't start the bike, it cannot be the R/R (although it too nay be bad) because if it us nor running it has nothing to regulate or rectify. Sounds like it is the harness to me. BTW... My 5th gen has 43000 miles with stock everything. No failures.
I hope that it is not the f'ing harness...
If the bike has started and run with the new harness I would be checking for loose connections around your starter motor circuit, battery and all earth points. There are earth conglomeration points (generally concerned with engine control and instruments not starting circuits) taped into the harness near the RR and battery area, the replacement harness may have a corroded one of these. I think you are looking at some poor workmanship from previous owner.
Take a piece of heavy wire and touch to your battery directly to the starter motor input connection to confirm the starter will run and confirm a problem between battery and starter. Careful though this could lead to finger burning, use pliers to hold the wire.
swas
If the bike has started and run with the new harness I would be checking for loose connections around your starter motor circuit, battery and all earth points. There are earth conglomeration points (generally concerned with engine control and instruments not starting circuits) taped into the harness near the RR and battery area, the replacement harness may have a corroded one of these. I think you are looking at some poor workmanship from previous owner.
Take a piece of heavy wire and touch to your battery directly to the starter motor input connection to confirm the starter will run and confirm a problem between battery and starter. Careful though this could lead to finger burning, use pliers to hold the wire.
Ah crap. So I use a piece of wire to connect the positive battery terminal to the other lead on the starter relay?
Installed the FH0122AA with some help, and diagnosed a bad starter motor (has a dead spot) so now on the hunt for a new one!
You might be able to temporarily fix the starter motor by taking it apart and cleaning it out.
Worked for me a couple times years ago with an old Yamaha before I finally got a rebuilt one and replaced it.
Lots of black dusty grunge in there. :dry:
[image: View Post]VFR4Lee, on 20 September 2011 - 10:38 PM, said:
You might be able to temporarily fix the starter motor by taking it apart and cleaning it out.
Worked for me a couple times years ago with an old Yamaha before I finally got a rebuilt one and replaced it.
Lots of black dusty grunge in there. :dry:
+1. I take my vehicles starter off every few years and give it a good cleaning with electrical cleaning spray. Water, dirt, grime, grease. It all gets in there.
Will try that, need to get some electrical cleaning spray first :)
Hopefully the starter motor is the culprit, what do you guys think? We would put bike into a high gear and rock the rear wheel back and forth until we felt the crank turn over then put it into neutral and try starting it. Sometimes it would work, sometimes would not.
Yep that will be the reason for only a click when the GO button is pressed. See the link in reply #2 from mello dude info on what to look for around your charging circuit now your multimeter has new batteries to start tracking down the regular dying of your bike.
[image: View Post]swas, on 21 September 2011 - 06:41 AM, said:
Yep that will be the reason for only a click when the GO button is pressed. See the link in reply #2 from
mello dude info on what to look for around your charging circuit now your multimeter has new batteries to start tracking down the regular dying of your bike.
Already did that, and found nothing abnormal except my battery. The stator tested good etc, so I suspect my battery was being overcharged from the regulator. The R/R was replaced with a FH0122AA so now it is starter motor time.
[image: View Post]VFR4Lee, on 20 September 2011 - 10:38 PM, said:
You might be able to temporarily fix the starter motor by taking it apart and cleaning it out.
Worked for me a couple times years ago with an old Yamaha before I finally got a rebuilt one and replaced it.
Lots of black dusty grunge in there. :dry:
Thanks! Worked!
[image: View Post]rangerscott69, on 20 September 2011 - 11:24 PM, said:
+1. I take my vehicles starter off every few years and give it a good cleaning with electrical cleaning spray. Water, dirt, grime, grease. It all gets in there.
Opened up the starter motor, cleaned it out with a can of connection cleaner, it was soooo dirty.
Now the motor starts and runs fine, but I think I fouled the spark plugs or something. When I give it gas it runs like crap and has an occasional backfire.
[image: Posted Image] Ideas?
The only time I had some backfiring was when I hooked up the coils wrong for the back two cylinders. It ran, but the engine sounded mad. LOL
[image: View Post]rangerscott69, on 21 September 2011 - 10:01 PM, said:
The only time I had some backfiring was when I hooked up the coils wrong for the back two cylinders. It ran, but the engine sounded mad. LOL
Those have not been messed with.
Edit: Now it does not start at all, if I give it gas while cranking it sounds like it wants to start but does not. Gas is brand new about 12 litres of 87 octane from esso fresh from the day it died (fill up was less then 5 mins before it died)
[image: View Post]mello dude, on 21 September 2011 - 10:55 PM, said:
An off the wall thought.......
http://www.vfrdiscus...__fromsearch__1
Will check, but mechanic told me the air filter was cleaned out when he inspected the bike right after purchase.
You for sure know fuel is coming out the injectors? I'd prop the tank up, take the filter out and take a look down the throttle bodies while cranking it.
[image: View Post]rangerscott69, on 21 September 2011 - 11:23 PM, said:
You for sure know fuel is coming out the injectors? I'd prop the tank up, take the filter out and take a look down the throttle bodies while cranking it.
Will try that thanks, I hope the injectors are not the problem as they were supposed to be fixed by my mechanic in the after purchase inspection.
Took it to the mechanic, it is fouling plugs and running rich + backfiring :(
[image: View Post]silverbullet132, on 22 September 2011 - 05:50 PM, said:
Took it to the mechanic, it is fouling plugs and running rich + backfiring :(
Just a guess, but maybe another harness problem?
Check fuel pressure regulator for leaks. To do this remove vacuum hose from regulator then try and start bike. If it's stuffed fuel will come out the vacuum port on the regulator.
[image: View Post]kaldek, on 22 September 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:
Check fuel pressure regulator for leaks. To do this remove vacuum hose from regulator then try and start bike. If it's stuffed fuel will come out the vacuum port on the regulator.
Sorry but I have no idea what that looks like, or where it would be located.
Never mind, found out. Anyone know where I can get one if it turns out to be bad? Honda is back ordered until early November :(
Turbo City use to have a after market one.
[image: View Post]Switchblade, on 23 September 2011 - 04:53 PM, said:
Turbo City use to have a after market one.
That would make it run more rich, which is the exact opposite of what I need.
Mechanic took it out for a ride today, said it worked perfect for about 30 mins then started to bog out and die. Fuel pump?
Got it back today, now I am 90% sure the battery is the root of my problems. It starts fine and holds 13.5v-ish at idle and 14.2v-ish at 5000rpm. Sometimes while running the multimeter would read 0v off the battery then it would go back up to 14.2v. Hopefully a Canadian Tire has the battery in stock, so I can swap it.
God damn....bike starts revs etc all is well...then as soon as I tilt it over to start riding it stalls. Kickstand up or down does not matter, always stalls and does not start back up unless it is on its kickstand.
Sounds like the tump over sensor is out of wack. Its behind the headlights.
Def not that, if I tip the bike into riding position and push the kickstand out with my foot to simulate it being down the bike starts and runs fine. So I think I need a new kickstand switch.
I hate to be nelson naysayer, but again .... Weird problems after a loom swap? Here on the police force, we call that s clue.
I hope I am wrong.
[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 25 September 2011 - 06:19 PM, said:
I hate to be nelson naysayer, but again .... Weird problems after a loom swap? Here on the police force, we call that s clue.
I hope I am wrong.
Is that the kaldek syndrome?
(Sry friend, couldn't resist, it's all in fun...... :smile: )
[image: View Post]silverbullet132, on 25 September 2011 - 05:49 PM, said:
Def not that, if I tip the bike into riding position and push the kickstand out with my foot to simulate it being down the bike starts and runs fine. So I think I need a new kickstand switch.
Hrm. The bike should start in neutral with the kickstand either up or down. Know that the clutch switch, kickstand switch, and neutral switch are all connected into the same circuit and are affected by the clutch diode (it's inside the fuse block). If there are any problems in this circuit, the bike won't start.
A faulty clutch diode will therefore cause all sorts of weirdness. Why won't the bike start if the clutch diode or the circuit is stuffed? Because the clutch diode is essentially the negative side of the starter relay circuit; if that diode won't let current pass through the starter relay then the bike won't start. The electrical path changes depending on the state of the diode, so tracing the circuit can get a bit weird.
In order for the diode to let current pass through the starter relay, the following must be in effect:
- Engine in Neutral AND (sidestand down OR sidestand up) - clutch irrelevant
- Engine in gear AND (clutch lever pulled in AND sidestand up)
If the diode is busted, you'll never hit the required combination.
EDIT: I've just eyeballed the wiring diagram again and it looks like the ECU monitors the same circuit for the sidestand-initiated kill when the engine is running. At least, that's what I think from a cursory glance.
Ah, well I am going to try replacing the kickstand switch as someone had messed with it before. They are cheap enough anyways.
Check out your starter relay plug as well...the sidestand switch connects there and they commonly melt down.
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on 25 September 2011 - 10:52 PM, said:
Check out your starter relay plug as well...the sidestand switch connects there and they commonly melt down.
Nothing melted on the starter relay. Also, did not get to checking the tip sensor...buuttt...
While I had the tank up to check the fuel pressure regulator, I decided to try it. Bike had 0 problems starting with the tank up (near vertical) while in riding position with the kickstand down or up. So it now looks like something to do with a component of the fuel tank. Thoughts?
There's too much going on with this bike, don't know if any of it is related to original problem or if you're just having to sort out several things that have happened at the same time and possibly somewhat related. I'd check the connections on the fuel pump and see if you can trace the wires at least to where they enter the loom. You might have a loose connection or rubbed wire that started all of this by messing with your fuel pressure and your ECU trying to compensate?
[image: View Post]VFRocker, on 28 September 2011 - 09:27 PM, said:
There's too much going on with this bike, don't know if any of it is related to original problem or if you're just having to sort out several things that have happened at the same time and possibly somewhat related. I'd check the connections on the fuel pump and see if you can trace the wires at least to where they enter the loom. You might have a loose connection or rubbed wire that started all of this by messing with your fuel pressure and your ECU trying to compensate?
Hopefully it is that simple, it is getting to be quite cold up here in Ontario :(
Makes sense that it could be the wires to the fuel pump, just the whole start on sidestand die as soon as tilted up thing complicates it. Hopefully a connection clean with some product on both the wiring and the fuel pump connectors fixes this issue, I really want to ride this thing.
What. The. Eff.
And I thought my problems were complex. Cutting ground wires to trace faults? Wow. Serious time.
Stator replaced but he now discovered the cover had been well messed up by the last owner. Found weld fixup spots, and I think caulking too. Told me when he replaced the stator it was hitting off of the flywheel rotor? Ordering a new OEM cover/gasket tonight/tomorrow.
[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 20 September 2011 - 02:10 PM, said:
...
My 5th gen has 43000 miles with stock everything. No failures.
Thanks Timmy...that's what I wanted to hear!
While I'm planning to check out my '98's wiring & connnections before Tmac, if everything checks out o.k. I'll probably leave the stock wiring and connections alone. I may look for a way to relocate the RR for improved airflow/cooling though.
Update: Stator tested bad, replaced. After replacing the stator it was discovered that the stator cover has been bent and welded back up before. That has since been replaced, waiting for a call back. Hopefully that will be the last of the parts to be replaced.
Replaced the stator, replaced the stator cover, worked well. He started bolting stuff back on and tested it again, stator was fried. He is now testing the crank to see if it is bent :( Anyone have ideas? possible bent flywheel?
New stator got insta-fried? Huh?
Basically. In testing it resulted that some of the stator phases/wires were shorting to each other. When he first put it in it was charging at 14.2-14.3v, now it charges at 15v+ and nothing has been touched in the electrics since the first install.
silverbullet132, on 02 June 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:
Basically. In testing it resulted that some of the stator phases/wires were shorting to each other. When he first put it in it was charging at 14.2-14.3v, now it charges at 15v+ and nothing has been touched in the electrics since the first install.
Overcharging has nothing to do with the stator, that's controlled by the regulator! The stator puts out anywhere between 24 and 100+ volts AC, the rectifier converts that to DC and the regulator circuit drops the voltage down to 14 volts.
If your bike is charging at 15+ volts, your regulator is bad or you have a poor electrical connection between the regulator and the wiring harness and battery.
Also, sounds like your mechanic is a bit of a muppet.
kaldek, on 03 June 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:
Also, sounds like your mechanic is a bit of a muppet.
:+1: nothing makeith any sence
I know the voltage is regulated by the R/R, but like I said the stator phases are shorting to each other.
[image: View Post]silverbullet132, on 03 June 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:
I know the voltage is regulated by the R/R, but like I said the stator phases are shorting to each other.
I don't buy it. If it was doing that it wouldn't be generating ANY volts.
[image: View Post]kaldek, on 03 June 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:
[image: View Post]silverbullet132, on 03 June 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:
I know the voltage is regulated by the R/R, but like I said the stator phases are shorting to each other.
I don't buy it. If it was doing that it wouldn't be generating ANY volts.
I saw him do the test in front of me, either way I will be getting an update on it later today or sometime tomorrow.
End of thread · 68 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 18 Sep 2021
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif){kind=link}