Afraid to plug a tire?

What to do if you're a thousand miles from home and you pick up one of these:

[image: index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=562] Flathead bit Picked this up somewhere along the way Album: Tire repair Uploaded 08 Oct 2011 - 19:38


Someone (Seb, or Jim, or Keith) said it looked, as the blunt end was sticking out from the surface of the tire, like a .25 caliber round. Well, good eye sir! It indeed was a 1/4" drive flathead screwdriver bit rammed nearly fully into my tire. Not sure how it happened, but it did. Never felt it while riding, so no idea how long it was in there.

First repair attempt was to use the Stop and Go kit:

[image: index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=562] Stop And Go Album: Tire repair Uploaded 09 Oct 2011 - 07:30

It's got a fancy plug inserting tool to get the mushroom head inside and flat against the carcass of the tire.
Here's the plug:
[image: index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=562] S&G Mushroom Plug Album: Tire repair Uploaded 09 Oct 2011 - 07:31

Unfortunately we didn't notice before trying that it is only rated as a "Temporary" repair. Sort of like a car spare doughnut. 50mph and 100 miles max recommended. Even so, it was already in so I tired to air it up. It never did seal properly using the Slime brand portable compressor, so I rode it to the gas station at the end of the motel drive and tried that compressor. Still no luck sealing it, and I wound up accidentally pulling it out trying to get it flush on the interior.
I had my own kit in my top case, so I tried it out. Sold by Progressive suspension:

[image: index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=562] tirekit2 Album: Tire repair Uploaded 09 Oct 2011 - 07:31

I bought this many years ago after some favorable reviews online. I think, at the time, that the BMW guys all were raving about it. Pic shows tube patches as well as tubeless plugs, but it is available with either or both.
It's a pretty straight-forward idea. Ream out the puncture, cement the plug after removing the plastic wrapping on the sealing surface, jam it in. I remember reading long ago when I bought it that the cement tends to harden even when sealed. Well, that seems to have happened to me. Despite the unbroken seal, the cement came out slightly too hard to properly work and I still had some air leaking.
Anyway, at this point at least I had enough seal to actually ride it back to the motel and the gang. Brian (MidlifeVFR) had already volunteered his 4th Gen rear wheel to get me home, and it was looking like it was going to be the way to get back. CornerCarver got out his plug kit and we figured it wouldn't hurt to try it before Brian took off for home to get the wheel.
He's got the basic old school "rope" plugs with reamer and insert tools. They all pretty much look like this:

[image: index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=562] Plug Kit Album: Tire repair Uploaded 09 Oct 2011 - 07:23

Pretty simple to use. Just ream out the hole to rough it up so you have more surface for the cement to grab. Stick the plug into the tool, and goo it up with cement. Then jam in into the puncture. Trying not to shove it fully in, of course. I left about a 1/2" tail sticking out and filled it at the gas station compressor until the stick gauge read a little over 44 psi. Didn't know how accurate it was, and figured it would be fine.

[image: index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=562] Plug Installed Just after installing the plug, and testing for leaks with soapy water. Album: Tire repair Uploaded 09 Oct 2011 - 07:07


By this time we were about 2 hours late on a day we were hoping to get 600 miles of highway done. So we decided to get going for an hour or so, then stop for lunch and check out the tire. Keith wasted no time in getting up to highway speed, and I was right there with him and MiniCarver. At the first stop I checked out the tire. Looked fine, kicked it and it was solid, finally got my digital gauge out and measured it at 49 psi. Proper heated inflation rate, given the starting cold pressure was 44-45.
Kicked it again at each subsequent stop with the same results.
Final stop of the day was cold ambient, raining, and by the time I measured we had been off the highway for 10-15 minutes. That reading was 46 psi. Didn't make out mileage goal, so still had 550 to go.
Next morning, in the same cold raining conditions, it read 43.5. I had some difficulty that morning, so probably let out half a pound screwing around with the gauge and stem.
Another day of highway to get home, and here's how it looked in my garage:
[image: index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=562] Plug - Home Made it home, no problem Album: Tire repair Uploaded 09 Oct 2011 - 07:00

[image: index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=562] Plug, Home No worries, mate Album: Tire repair Uploaded 09 Oct 2011 - 07:01

Final cold pressure reading the next day was 45. Slightly warmer in my garage, actually 20 or more degrees, so a bit higher pressure than the cold morning. Final bleed down to the proper 42, and I think it will be fine!
That tire had never touched asphalt before I left on the 2340 mile trip. Barely any highway before the run home, and you can see the squaring off after the 1000 mile ride! Pilot Powers on both ends. I'd love to get CornerCarver's tread depth measurement on his Road 3 rear, since it was nearly new before we left, to compare to my Power at just over 3mm on the center tread. (Hint-Hint since he doesn't reply to email...)
Anyway, that's my report on tire plugging. Tried to be as thorough as possible since the issue can be contentious. Yes, I left a bit of plug sticking out. I don't recall if it is recommended to cut or leave it, but I left it and never noticed a thing. Despite the long highway travel, it wasn't too far off the center. So it did get plenty of contact in right turns with no ill effects.

Nice writeup.  I think it's recommended to cut the plug even with the tire to keep from something possibly catching on it while riding and pulling it out?  My experience is I've only plugged one (same old school method you show at end of your thread) and it did fine until the weather turned cold and then it started losing about 1 lb. of air daily.  Then I replaced the tire.  However, i did the same plug routine on my F150 truck and it never lost a bit of air.  Go figure.

Chuck

Ive used all forms of external repair, and the large worms, have the longest longevity on average , by more than DOUBLE!!!!

Stopand go is very nice, but still doesnt have the longevity of the Worm.

I had flat on the road, other day, went to do a worm, I didnt have my installtion tool so had to use the tire plugger, after riding that day, did an internal repair, with lead wire combo patch.

Oh dont ream the hole unless , you have to!
Edited by spud786, 09 October 2011 - 08:51 AM.

Nice write-up. :fing02:
Interesting that the el-cheapo repair was the one that got you home.

Will you now;
Replace the tire?
Remove the tire and plug it from the inside?
Leave it as it is?

I've always been leery of repairing a tire on a motorcycle for extended use.
A rapid loss of air on a 4 wheeler is a nuisance, a rapid loss of air on a 2 wheeler seems like it would be a disaster.

I've used the mushroom and gun thing...SUCKS.
And have used the gummy string..... works great....I did cut the string very close to the tyre. Got 3000 miles out of it.

[image: View Post]CharlesW, on 09 October 2011 - 08:53 AM, said:

Nice write-up. :fing02:
Interesting that the el-cheapo repair was the one that got you home.

Will you now;
Replace the tire?
Remove the tire and plug it from the inside?
Leave it as it is?

I've always been leery of repairing a tire on a motorcycle for extended use.
A rapid loss of air on a 4 wheeler is a nuisance, a rapid loss of air on a 2 wheeler seems like it would be a disaster.
Even if you blow the plug....... IMHO ......... It's not going to lose the air like blowing a valve stem ....... AND the side walls on these high tech tyres are stiff enough to support the bike a lot better that the old radials ..... or car tyres for that matter........Just my opinion...

Let's be honest, 1000 miles in two days on the highway at extra legal speeds is already a pretty good test. We're not talking about a couple hours of "get you home" riding. My opinion is that if it were going to do anything, it would have already.
I've used internal plugs before with no problems, but from a shop. I don't have any on hand, but I do have the tire removal gear if I wanted to do it and bought a plug. Not sure where to get one, either.
Deflation will be reasonably slow enough to make a stop, but you won't be going anywhere on a flat. Sorry Monk, these sidewalls are not that stiff. (EDIT)
Low pressure, yes. No pressure, no.

[image: View Post]KPerham, on 09 October 2011 - 12:17 PM, said:

Let's be honest, 1000 miles in two days on the highway at extra legal speeds is already a pretty good test. We're not talking about a couple hours of "get you home" riding. My opinion is that if it were going to do anything, it would have already.
I've used internal plugs before with no problems, but from a shop. I don't have any on hand, but I do have the tire removal gear if I wanted to do it and bought a plug. Not sure where to get one, either.
Deflation will be reasonably slow enough to make a stop, but you won't be going anywhere on a flat. Sorry Monk, these sidewalls are that stiff.
That's what I said??????????? that the tyres ARE stiff... you most have miss read, no biggy. we're so use to peeps not agreeing, etc.

Matter of fact, One flat I had I was riding on a straight road and it felt like it may be losing air, and was close to home. when I got home and checked the pressure it was about 18 pounds.

[image: View Post]Monk, on 09 October 2011 - 11:55 AM, said:

[image: View Post]CharlesW, on 09 October 2011 - 08:53 AM, said:

Nice write-up. :fing02:
Interesting that the el-cheapo repair was the one that got you home.

Will you now;
Replace the tire?
Remove the tire and plug it from the inside?
Leave it as it is?

I've always been leery of repairing a tire on a motorcycle for extended use.
A rapid loss of air on a 4 wheeler is a nuisance, a rapid loss of air on a 2 wheeler seems like it would be a disaster.
Even if you blow the plug....... IMHO ......... It's not going to lose the air like blowing a valve stem ....... AND the side walls on these high tech tyres are stiff enough to support the bike a lot better that the old radials ..... or car tyres for that matter........Just my opinion...

The plugs or worms will give out eventually if any road contact, usually they fail with me, 500 to 1200 mile, depending on the type of external repair. rain is bad for worm plugs, and the rubber is too soft with stop go types. Usually they'll start leaking verses blow out ,with either type.

The only time I've had them last the life of the tire , is if theres virtually no road contact , like in between a tread block, but dead center in the tire, normally takes on strong acceleration which reduces a plugs life considerably.
Edited by spud786, 09 October 2011 - 01:14 PM.

Just my .2
I got a nail about 500 miles ago and I just decided to use  the worm type tire repair. I checked the pressure every day pre ride and it's holding just fine. I an running a Metzeler M-3 and I do pretty spirited riding . I carry a little slime air compressor and some worms in my saddle bag j. I'm sold! I'll always carry it just in-case!
Of Course the day I decide not to take my saddle bags it'lll be the day I get a flat!  DOH!

Jim

As I posted earlier, I got 3000 miles out of my sticky worm and it was in the(near) centre of the tyre...... I had checked the pressure before each ride and it didn't start losing air until the 3000 mark at which time I replaced the tyre........ BUT .... I had plugged it on a new tyre, so it had a lot of good rubber to support the plug(just something to add to the stat's).

Yeah, thats a definitely possibility depending on how the bike is ridden , track riding tends to eat plugs at a faster rate.

Cruising on thoroghfare interstates or Highways , is about the easiest on a plug, but if doing alot of acceling and deceling and alot of throttle use, the tables will turn negatively towards Plug life. Road contact, road courseness, rain, and use all play a big factor.

But Ive destroyed so many plugs, I can safely say they arent reliable , other than a short period of time, atleast my experience.
Edited by spud786, 09 October 2011 - 02:13 PM.

If it isn't off-topic or a thread hi-jack;
What's the opinion on the plugs applied from the inside after the tire is dismounted.
I have always felt that those were better, but I can't see trusting them for long distances at high speeds on a motorcycle.

If you're going to take the tyre off I'd go with a internal patch..... A internal plug can pop with wear just as a external might....I think, I've never done it.

Or a plug and a patch, as long as the tyres off anyway.

[image: View Post]Monk, on 09 October 2011 - 05:03 PM, said:

If you're going to take the tyre off I'd go with a internal patch..... A internal plug can pop with wear just as a external might....I think, I've never done it.

Or a plug and a patch, as long as the tyres off anyway.
I've never done it, but I thought it was both a plug and a patch when they did it from the inside.

Motorcycle Tire manufactures, recognise proper internal tire patching as a way of repair, they do not recognise external repair.

But there is many different ways of technique and componentry with internal patching. Such as the lead wire combo patch , which will go through a tire at an angle if needed, also has special ingrediant  compound that getts into the hole for self vulcanising ,  seals the tread plus the hole. Add in the prepping, Rubber cleaner, buffing, Blue flammable glue, woooom!  and then cover it all with liner restorer,  its a very decent patch job.

It can only go downhill from there with what componentry or method, someone else uses.>G

[image: View Post]Monk, on 09 October 2011 - 11:49 AM, said:

I've used the mushroom and gun thing...SUCKS.
And have used the gummy string..... works great....I did cut the string very close to the tyre. Got 3000 miles out of it.

I never got the Gun one, I have the allen screw type, and it inserts fine and easy.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 October 2011 - 05:48 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Monk, on 09 October 2011 - 11:49 AM, said:

I've used the mushroom and gun thing...SUCKS.
And have used the gummy string..... works great....I did cut the string very close to the tyre. Got 3000 miles out of it.

I never got the Gun one, I have the allen screw type, and it inserts fine and easy.
I've seen some that screw in, then break the end off.... they look good.... Do you have a link?

[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 October 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

Motorcycle Tire manufactures, recognise proper internal tire patching as a way of repair, they do not recognise external repair.

But there is many different ways of technique and componentry with internal patching. Such as the lead wire combo patch , which will go through a tire at an angle if needed, also has special ingrediant  compound that getts into the hole for self vulcanising ,  seals the tread plus the hole. Add in the prepping, Rubber cleaner, buffing, Blue flammable glue, woooom!  and then cover it all with liner restorer,  its a very decent patch job.

It can only go downhill from there with what componentry or method, someone else uses.>G
That's closer to what I was thinking of. Something similar to this.
[image: Posted Image]

Last time I had a flat it was the front. The valve stem developed a leak, and it went to zero pretty quickly.
Maybe in 1 minute give or take. Steering got real heavy but I was able to steer and pull over. Pumped it up with CO2 a couple times in hopes of getting home, but it kept going flat before long, was lucky to get to a gas station at the bottom of the hill in Sunland, and my friend went home for his truck.
I probably rode 1/2 a mile or a mile with it flat or near flat, thought it would be destroyed. But it was OK when it was taken off and a new valve stem installed. The mechanic said it was fine, and I rode it hundreds of more miles until it wore out. :goofy:

As for the patching, whatever works to get you on your way. After, I'd do a better repair or replace it asap myself. :fing02:

I'll be the first to admit that I've owned that Stop & Go kit for 5 years, and that was the first time I'd used it. I think it would have worked nicely if the hole hadn't been at such an angle to the tread. I think the mushroom style would work fine on a more perpendicular puncture. I could probably add a couple of the rope type to my kit without running out of space.

Internal patch is a really nice way to go, if the service is available. "witch hats" they call them around here.

Monk, the gun was an added acessory to the orginal stopand go tire plugger,  the original just uses allen wrench set up to drive the plug in, nothing breaks off, as you were asking.

[image: View Post]CharlesW, on 09 October 2011 - 06:42 PM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 October 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

Motorcycle Tire manufactures, recognise proper internal tire patching as a way of repair, they do not recognise external repair.

But there is many different ways of technique and componentry with internal patching. Such as the lead wire combo patch , which will go through a tire at an angle if needed, also has special ingrediant  compound that getts into the hole for self vulcanising ,  seals the tread plus the hole. Add in the prepping, Rubber cleaner, buffing, Blue flammable glue, woooom!  and then cover it all with liner restorer,  its a very decent patch job.

It can only go downhill from there with what componentry or method, someone else uses.>G
That's closer to what I was thinking of. Something similar to this.
[image: Posted Image]


Yeah those are lead wire combo patches , they come in various patch sizes and stem sizes, those pictured are the Gum dipped type. I have a different type, which are a Black stem, gum wrapped type.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 09 October 2011 - 07:47 PM, said:

I'll be the first to admit that I've owned that Stop & Go kit for 5 years, and that was the first time I'd used it. I think it would have worked nicely if the hole hadn't been at such an angle to the tread. I think the mushroom style would work fine on a more perpendicular puncture. I could probably add a couple of the rope type to my kit without running out of space. Internal patch is a really nice way to go, if the service is available. "witch hats" they call them around here.
Yeah they work fine till the start leaking, any steel strand will cut them in half, and road contact, messes them up too, so 200 to 500 miles, has been my experience, and Ive used a dosen of them. You can always push the old one in the tire and install a new one, same with worms.
Edited by spud786, 09 October 2011 - 09:15 PM.

oh, yeah....i had this feeling there was something else I was supposed to do for you.

my rear PR3 tread depth, 4.2mm in the center and 4.4mm on the sides.  that run home at 6-8k rpm did a number on the tire profile for all three of us. that tire has approximately 2,825 miles and even though it was never pushed on this ride due to the temps and the rain we ran through on the way home I am liking it. 2,469 miles on this trip and 358 one day about a week before we left

Back OT....sorry about quickly getting you up to freeway temps and speed as wel left Sunday.  I would ride that plugged tire until it either started to consistently leak down in the garage (more pressure lost than the front over the same period) or until it was time to replace the tire.  i wouldn't do a track day on it but we put it through it's paces on the way home.

The sticky worms are the best. But on a tire with 25% tread life, there ain't much holding that sucker in. Also, I think the further out from the center the more flex there is during spirited riding and the chances of a worm holding air diminish;  plus, when you rip into it, the plug is being yanked out. [image: Posted Image] Just my .1534 yen.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 09 October 2011 - 07:47 PM, said:

I'll be the first to admit that I've owned that Stop & Go kit for 5 years, and that was the first time I'd used it. I think it would have worked nicely if the hole hadn't been at such an angle to the tread. I think the mushroom style would work fine on a more perpendicular puncture. I could probably add a couple of the rope type to my kit without running out of space.

Internal patch is a really nice way to go, if the service is available. "witch hats" they call them around here.
They did, however, give pretty specific limitations on speed and distance recommended after use. Neither of which would have got me home. Even Keith's recent adventure before the trip was outside that, IIRC.
Anyway, I forgot to mention that the Slime compressor pulls over 3 amps. So if you use the trickle charger connection, be sure to check the inline fuse first. Mine had a 3a fuse which blew almost instantly. Had a spare 15a which was ok.

Intereresting on the amperage that tiny compressor pulls, My power port is set up with heavy gauge wire, and 20 amp fuse. Simply for that reason, of running a compressor.

[image: View Post]k13sman, on 10 October 2011 - 02:35 PM, said:

The sticky worms are the best. But on a tire with 25% tread life, there ain't much holding that sucker in. Also, I think the further out from the center the more flex there is during spirited riding and the chances of a worm holding air diminish;  plus, when you rip into it, the plug is being yanked out. [image: Posted Image] Just my .1534 yen.

The first worm I ever did was on a front tire, I reammed the tire, and worm was near falling out at 50 miles, I dont recommend reaming at all, unless you have to, worm will not move.
Edited by spud786, 12 October 2011 - 06:21 AM.

How about adding this to the discussion...if it's off topic just let me know and I'll start another.  There has been talk of compressors and I carry that Slime one too.  The last flat I had was on the ST1300 (rear tire, two up and loaded) and before I realized it I let the tire get almost completely flat.  When the bead comes off the rim or has lost its seal, it seems the little compressors are of little use.  A Winger stopped to help me and he had some CO2 cartridges and that worked to add air quickly enough to get the tire to seal well enough to the wheel to hold air...then I aired it up the rest of the way with the compressor.  Any experience or thoughts on this?  I just went to Cyclegear the other day and got some CO2 cartridges and a valve/holder...in my kit now.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 October 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:

The plugs or worms will give out eventually if any road contact, usually they fail with me, 500 to 1200 mile, depending on the type of external repair. rain is bad for worm plugs, and the rubber is too soft with stop go types. Usually they'll start leaking verses blow out ,with either type. The only time I've had them last the life of the tire , is if theres virtually no road contact , like in between a tread block, but dead center in the tire, normally takes on strong acceleration which reduces a plugs life considerably. I question this statement.  Is it based on data?
I've plugged both car and MC tires more times than I can remember and never had any air leakage, blowouts or any other failures caused by the plugs.  Always used worm type of plugs.
Both of my cars and the rear tire of my bike have plugs now.  All happened to be in spots that come in contact with asphalt and all are exposed to rain.  No issues.  in fact, in my experience, once plugged with a worm, tires can be used normally for the remainder of their life.
Of course, common sense should be used when determining whether the tire can be repaired.  Clearly, not all punctures are eligible for a worn-type of repair or any repair at all.  Another disclaimer should be made to account for those folks whose hands grow out of their arse and will fudge just about any installation.

[image: View Post]Rice, on 12 October 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 October 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:

The plugs or worms will give out eventually if any road contact, usually they fail with me, 500 to 1200 mile, depending on the type of external repair. rain is bad for worm plugs, and the rubber is too soft with stop go types. Usually they'll start leaking verses blow out ,with either type. The only time I've had them last the life of the tire , is if theres virtually no road contact , like in between a tread block, but dead center in the tire, normally takes on strong acceleration which reduces a plugs life considerably. I question this statement.  Is it based on data?
I've plugged both car and MC tires more times than I can remember and never had any air leakage, blowouts or any other failures caused by the plugs.  Always used worm type of plugs.
Both of my cars and the rear tire of my bike have plugs now.  All happened to be in spots that come in contact with asphalt and all are exposed to rain.  No issues.  in fact, in my experience, once plugged with a worm, tires can be used normally for the remainder of their life.
Of course, common sense should be used when determining whether the tire can be repaired.  Clearly, not all punctures are eligible for a worn-type of repair or any repair at all.  Another disclaimer should be made to account for those folks whose hands grow out of their arse and will fudge just about any installation.

Same here Rice.  I've plugged dozens of tires and have never had a failure.  I've even used two sticky worms due to the hole being so large.  

For those that haven't plugged a tire, don't wait until you're out on the road to practice.  Find an old tire and get comfortable with plugging while at home.

[image: View Post]Rice, on 12 October 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 October 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:

The plugs or worms will give out eventually if any road contact, usually they fail with me, 500 to 1200 mile, depending on the type of external repair. rain is bad for worm plugs, and the rubber is too soft with stop go types. Usually they'll start leaking verses blow out ,with either type. The only time I've had them last the life of the tire , is if theres virtually no road contact , like in between a tread block, but dead center in the tire, normally takes on strong acceleration which reduces a plugs life considerably. I question this statement.  Is it based on data?
I've plugged both car and MC tires more times than I can remember and never had any air leakage, blowouts or any other failures caused by the plugs.  Always used worm type of plugs.
Both of my cars and the rear tire of my bike have plugs now.  All happened to be in spots that come in contact with asphalt and all are exposed to rain.  No issues.  in fact, in my experience, once plugged with a worm, tires can be used normally for the remainder of their life.
Of course, common sense should be used when determining whether the tire can be repaired.  Clearly, not all punctures are eligible for a worn-type of repair or any repair at all.  Another disclaimer should be made to account for those folks whose hands grow out of their arse and will fudge just about any installation.


Based on my data over many years, they dont last and start leaking with all forms of external repair. That doesnt mean someone might exceed or even make it to end of life, even Ive been lucky atleast once, the hole is in between a tread block with no road contact (only time it ever works long term).  This is over about 2 dosen external repairs, so its a good average I can state. But I agree many will do better, much like tires, depends on what the plugs are subjected to.

Dont believe me, go to the tire manufacturers, see what they say

BTW a car tire doesnt even compare to a thin mc tire, why even mention it?


But somewhere in this thread , somebody said the Op's plug made it hundreds of miles, so its fine. Thats completey incorrect. I hope they continue to ride the plug till it fails, then they can come back to that person.
who knows maybe they will get lucky or maybe not, doesnt matter to me one way or the other.

I had the opportunity (ok..need) to use a mushroom plug on the rear of my 650r two weeks ago.  I haven't put too many miles on it since then but in 2 weeks is still holding pressure.  Took two tries to get it to seal but is likely because I cut the first one off too short by stretching out from the tire before cutting.  On the second and successful try i just used the razor and cut it flush with the outside.

The original poster's tire may be holding air but the worm type plugs, or any external applied plug system are not designed to plug holes of the size made by the screwdriver bit.

Regardless, if you have a Z rated tire and you use any form of plug or patch, internal or external, this tire is no longer a Z rated.

blah blah blah. 5 worms..in 1 tire  4587 miles most of that on I95 doing 95 with a few burn outs added. :happy:

[image: View Post]gll429, on 12 October 2011 - 08:13 PM, said:

blah blah blah. 5 worms..in 1 tire  4587 miles most of that on I95 doing 95 with a few burn outs added. :happy:


Lol, well who can argue with proof like that :laughing6-hehe:

I should add, and I think I aleady did somewhere in this thread, The large slime worms have been the longest lasting external repair on average that Ive done, they typically last aound 1200 miles for me. The stop and go mushrooms seem to start leaking around 500 miles.  The road just eats right through that soft rubber over time, Worms are just a series of thread with Stick goop, Once the Goop breaks down, you have a leak.

Im not against worms,  Nor care if someone gets double that life to me, its pretty meaningless really!

The point Im making is they will leak and fail more than likely at some point, you have to constantly cheack and baby them, atleast you better. I just stating my rate at leakage typically begins on a consistant basis. So for external repair, the Worm is my first choice, atleast I'll get a 1000 miles, thats better than 500.

90 mile down the interstate, try 110 mph Apex speed on real Road!  But (speed) is really is not a main factor , its more what eats at the plug, and thats typically the road surface and rain with a Goop worm.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 12 October 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:

90 mile down the interstate, try 110 mph Apex speed on real Road!  But (speed) is really is not a main factor , its more what eats at the plug, and thats typically the road surface and rain with a Goop worm.

you clearly have never driven on 95.. its worse than any road texas..  due to freezing and thawing and pot holes and bad repairs ..as for rain.. way too much this year..
speed..only 110? once you get off 95 and away from all the cops.... sky is the limit. :fing02:
come visit sometime.. maryland crabs and philly cheesesteaks on me.

Been all over Texas have ya?  I think I'll stay west of the Missisipi, the Northeastern U.S. is Not my thing , thax for the offer, but crab and Philli cheese steak I dont eat either. >G

You must be thinking, what country does this guy live in?   I do live in a different country compared to the North east.>G

[image: View Post]spud786, on 12 October 2011 - 09:21 PM, said:

Been all over Texas have ya?  I think I'll stay west of the Missisipi, the Northeastern U.S. is Not my thing , thax for the offer, but crab and Philli cheese steak I dont eat either. >G

You must be thinking, what country does this guy live in?   I do live in a different country compared to the North east.>G

yep.. i have been all over Texas.. and AZ and new mexico.... did all 50 states   but went to school in AZ and TX.. the roads in the north east usa are the freaking worst.,,with the exception of Alaska.  and yes lots of plugs are needed  here for both car and bikes.... did 3 plugs in one week on my own stuff.

will admit i do like the state police in texas... i got busted for doing a 170 on a busa.. and he let me go with no ticket!! he had one too! :tongue:

[image: View Post]gll429, on 12 October 2011 - 10:31 PM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 12 October 2011 - 09:21 PM, said:

Been all over Texas have ya?  I think I'll stay west of the Missisipi, the Northeastern U.S. is Not my thing , thax for the offer, but crab and Philli cheese steak I dont eat either. >G

You must be thinking, what country does this guy live in?   I do live in a different country compared to the North east.>G

yep.. i have been all over Texas.. and AZ and new mexico.... did all 50 states   but went to school in AZ and TX.. the roads in the north east usa are the freaking worst.,,with the exception of Alaska.  and yes lots of plugs are needed  here for both car and bikes.... did 3 plugs in one week on my own stuff.

will admit i do like the state police in texas... i got busted for doing a 170 on a busa.. and he let me go with no ticket!! he had one too! :tongue:

You may have been on the interstates, but that doesnt mean much.  Ive ridden Texas for over 2 decades, and I havent even been to all of it. Have you been to Junction Texas?

Who cares?? Let's get back to tire plugs, eh? Put away the tape measures and get back on topic please.

I will use a plug (worm) in an emergency, just to get me off the road and to my next destination.  I do not trust them enough to expect them to exist in the thin carcass of a soft sport tire and be subjected to the punishment my wrist warrants.  I just don't enjoy worrying about a tire while ripping it up; it isn't worth it.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 13 October 2011 - 06:15 AM, said:

Who cares?? Let's get back to tire plugs, eh? Put away the tape measures and get back on topic please.
Anyone listen to Car Talk? When someone asks "How long can I keep driving it with 'X' issue" They like to say "You've gotta keep going until it dies and let everyone know!" So I guess that's the plan. :idea3: :laugh:

[image: View Post]2thdr, on 12 October 2011 - 08:30 AM, said:

How about adding this to the discussion...if it's off topic just let me know and I'll start another.  There has been talk of compressors and I carry that Slime one too.  The last flat I had was on the ST1300 (rear tire, two up and loaded) and before I realized it I let the tire get almost completely flat.  When the bead comes off the rim or has lost its seal, it seems the little compressors are of little use.  A Winger stopped to help me and he had some CO2 cartridges and that worked to add air quickly enough to get the tire to seal well enough to the wheel to hold air...then I aired it up the rest of the way with the compressor.  Any experience or thoughts on this?  I just went to Cyclegear the other day and got some CO2 cartridges and a valve/holder...in my kit now.

Yeah a bead popping off would be bad, what kind of tire was that?

But thats interesting the co2 cartridge, popped the bead back on, while co2 cartridges are expensive if you get alot of flats, Having a set just for beed popping on the road, may have merit.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 13 October 2011 - 07:23 AM, said:

[image: View Post]2thdr, on 12 October 2011 - 08:30 AM, said:

How about adding this to the discussion...if it's off topic just let me know and I'll start another.  There has been talk of compressors and I carry that Slime one too.  The last flat I had was on the ST1300 (rear tire, two up and loaded) and before I realized it I let the tire get almost completely flat.  When the bead comes off the rim or has lost its seal, it seems the little compressors are of little use.  A Winger stopped to help me and he had some CO2 cartridges and that worked to add air quickly enough to get the tire to seal well enough to the wheel to hold air...then I aired it up the rest of the way with the compressor.  Any experience or thoughts on this?  I just went to Cyclegear the other day and got some CO2 cartridges and a valve/holder...in my kit now.

Yeah a bead popping off would be bad, what kind of tire was that?

But thats interesting the co2 cartridge, popped the bead back on, while co2 cartridges are expensive if you get alot of flats, Having a set just for beed popping on the road, may have merit.

Was a b'stone 023.  Never really heard it "pop" back on rim bead, but it held air no problem getting to dealer 10 miles away...

I have a nail or something on my read diablo.  I'll try the sticky worm.

I've only used the mushrooms with cement and always ran the tire to end of life, maybe half a dozen times without a problem.

Great info KPerham... these are my notes on Tire Plugs...

Minor tire repair is limited to an area of three quarters of the
normal section width. The maximum diameter of penetration damage
and/or cracking at the base of the injury should be no greater than
3mm. The repair patches must not overlap. If a tire is deemed suitable for
repair (by a professional) then follow the instructions provided by the
manufacturer of the repair material.

For permanent repair,it is only recommended that small punctures
restricted to the tread area be repaired, using a rope type plug. The
current condition of a tire is important in determining whether a tire
is suitable for repair. Some damage limits include: if the tire has
reached its minimum tread depth as indicated by the TWI (tire wear
indicator); ply separation, separation of inner liner and or cutting
of ply cords by penetrating object; brittle or cracked rubber caused
by exhaust heat; broken or bent bead wire, damaged bead zone; damage
caused by under-inflation; softening or swelling of rubber due to oil
or chemical attack; punctures too close together; damage or previous
repair of a puncture outside of area specified for suitable repair.
[image: Posted Image]

My screwed Rennsport... boo hoo
[image: Posted Image]

My plugged Rennsport that covered 2K miles and not in moderation
either... keep it a secret but it's seen over a buck 40 more than
once...
[image: Posted Image]

Inside the Rennsport for proof that the rope type plugs stay intact
whereas  my mushroom tyre plug started to come unstuck

[image: Posted Image]

You can see by the diagram that Safety Seal plugs that are installed
properly establish an mushroom shape inside the carcass that holds
fast under pressure... you'd have more luck pushing the plug inside
carcass than you'll ever have it pop out under pressure...


Nylon Rope type plugs found at any auto parts store...
[image: Posted Image]

I don't recommend the mushroom type plugs...
[image: Posted Image]


What the Manufactures say about tire repairs:

Metzeler quote: "According to the specific regulations of different
country governments, a  general recommendation regarding tyre repair
cannot be given. For your  country, please refer to your distributor.
In case a repair is permitted,  METZELER is only recommending the
repair of small punctures restricted to  the tread area using a
mushroom head type plug. The repair of a punctured  tubeless tyre by
means of fitting a tube is not permitted" .


Dunlop quote: "Any puncture or injury to a tire's tread area obviously
affects performance  and safety. Proper repair is critical. The
puncture must be repaired on both  the inside and the outside of the
tire. Because all parts of a tire are  engineered to function as a
single unit, any repair must take that into  consideration. Only
small, straight-through 3/16" diameter or less punctures  in the tread
area may be repairable, if no secondary damage has occurred."

NOTE: A tire repair can be properly made only if the tire is removed
from the rim; a thorough internal inspection is carried out; and the
repair is  made from the inside out. A repair must fill and seal the
injury, i.e.  vulcanized plug and patch. Only specially trained
Technicians are qualified  to repair a tire. Do not attempt to repair
it yourself.

Dunlop Safety Advisory, Speed Rated Tires: Repaired tires must not be
used in excess of posted speed limits, in race or other competition.
Speed  ratings are not valid for repaired, re-treaded, under-inflated
or  overloaded, excessively worn, damaged or altered tires. "



Bridgestone quote: Riding on an improperly repaired tire is dangerous.
An improper repair can  cause further damage to the tire. It may
suddenly fail, causing serious  personal injury or death. To be safe,
go to your local dealer for proper  tire repairs.

Before having a tire repaired, tell your local dealer if you have used
an aerosol fixer to inflate/ seal the tire. Aerosol fixers could
contain a  highly volatile gas. Always remove the valve core outdoors,
away from  sources of excessive heat, flame, or sparks and completely
deflate the tire  before removing it from the rim for repair.

* Never repair a tire with less than 1/32nd inch (0.8 millimeters)
tread remaining. At this tread depth, the tire is worn out and must be
replaced. * Never repair a tire with a puncture larger than 1/4 inch
(6.4 millimeters)  in diameter. Such tires cannot be properly repaired
and must be replaced. * Repairs of all tires (radial and non-radial)
must be of the plug and  inside patch type. Using plugs alone on any
type of tire is not a safe  repair. * Never repair a tire with a
puncture or other damage outside the tread  area. Such tires cannot be
properly repaired and must be replaced. * Any tire repair done without
removing the tire from the rim is improper. * Tubes, like tires,
should be repaired only by a qualified tire service  person. * Never
use a tube as a substitute for a proper repair.

A tire's speed rating is void if the tire is repaired, retreaded,
damaged or abused, or otherwise altered from its original condition.
Thereafter, it  should be treated as a non-speed-rated tire.


Michelin quote: In case of a flat, take the tire to your Michelin�
motorcycle tire dealer.  Only a professional tire technician has the
expertise to properly inspect a  tire for damage and determine its
repairability.

On the first day of a recent ride the ride leader picked up long nail in his fresh PR2 rear at about the 3/4 point of the tread i.e. closer to the edge than center. He plugged it with a rope plug, and continued the ride. He was 2-up on a fully loaded MTS1200S, and doesn't ride slow. We had to stop for air periodically as it was still leaking a bit, but it held up for nearly 2 more days of serious road-burning. On the third day on the way home it started leaking too much to continue so he plugged it again with 2 ropes only to find the air chuck had been stolen from the hose where we stopped. After an hour of waiting for a tow the driver suggested they try to air it up, and it held. Got him home the last 100 miles or so.

Here is my fix.

The little metal piece was slowing letting the air out.  In 4 days, I had a flat.
[image: Posted Image]

Removed the metal piece.
[image: Posted Image]

The sticky worm is in:
[image: Posted Image]

Cut the extra pieces:
[image: Posted Image]

the metal piece:
[image: Posted Image]

I hope it holds.

Busy little shop, your mushroom patch came loose? Im not using that type,but a Lead wire combo patch, which enables traveling at angles.

I use special rubber cleaner , special Blue Flamable Glue(woom!) and these combo patches are also coated with self vulcanizing rubber in the Hole area and the stem. I buff the area with a drill and copper wire brush during the cleaning process. Afterwards, I coat the entire repair with (LINER) repair agent.

IMO these steps are necessary for strong Vulcanization, and 100% reliable repair

It's probably better to replace a tire after getting a puncture but in my case I have 3 separate incidents of objects embedded (2 nails  & sharp piece of metal) just within the last three weeks. I will replace the tire because the last puncture is too big to hold air after using worm type of plug. Never had a puncture in a motorcycle tire in nearly 30 years, until October where is seems like my rear road3 acted like a magnet for any metal objects. If I changed the tire after each puncture I would be out over $1,000 just in the month of October. I will be plugging my tire in the future because knowing my luck, I will probably pick up another nail within a mile after installing a new tire.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 05 November 2011 - 05:57 PM, said:

Busy little shop, your mushroom patch came loose? Im not using that type,but a Lead wire combo patch, which enables traveling at angles.


Affirmative... my mushroom patch came unglued... I don't recommend them anymore...

So far:
Highway trip home- 968 miles
Since then, commuter duty- 915 miles, including a long day of Cherohala, TN68, GA60, and various other twisties totaling 435 miles today alone.
I kicked it the other day and it felt/sounded funny, so I measured the pressure. 42psi, I guess my shoe was flat! :laugh:

[image: View Post]KPerham, on 13 November 2011 - 05:49 PM, said:

So far:
Highway trip home- 968 miles
Since then, commuter duty- 915 miles, including a long day of Cherohala, TN68, GA60, and various other twisties totaling 435 miles today alone.
I kicked it the other day and it felt/sounded funny, so I measured the pressure. 42psi, I guess my shoe was flat! :laugh:

Is this a worm recieving road contact?

You can always install a new worm, for insurance, just pop the old one in and install new, sounds like you have the miles about where mine begin to fail.

I recently changed out a rear tire that had an internal lead wire combo patch, special blue flamable glue, rubber cleaner and Liner repair agent over the repair was used, held up beautifully till end of the tires life.

Saftey seal or Slime type worms are the best external repair , but I had to go to internal repair , as the worms for me failed normally about 1000 or 1200 miles if recieving heavy road contact.

It's just off the center, so not contacting heavily. Today in the twisties it got worn down to flush.

The tire I repaired internally, i ran over a 2 and 1/4 inch wood screw dead center of the tire, in addition the screw wallowed the chit out of the hole, Hole would fit a pencil eraser, I plugged with an external mushroom to get home, as I didnt have my worm tool with me.  Then I broke in down for the internal repair.

The tire only had about 1000 miles of life left, I could have used a worm after getting home. Since the tread had that little life left, the effort breakin it down, is someway questioned when close to end of life over the worm

...aaand finished!
Saturday morning 30 psi, so I re-inflated to 42 and could hear hissing from the original plug. So I re-plugged it! Reamed out the original and stuck in a new one.
If I kept track of the mileage correctly, I got 1949 miles on the original plug. Again, it's just off center tread. So not 100% road contact in all riding. It never even wore flush until I took it up to the mountains, and still was two weeks before it lost any pressure after that ride. Just commuting I think it would have lasted until the tire was worn out.
I did some light riding yesterday on the second plug at it was 41 psi this morning. I guess I'll continue as I did on the original. Not sure the tire has another 1900 miles in it anyway.

Between rain riding, road contact , and use, all are factors in the life, Ive found the worms  last the longest  for external repair. But you never know when it will begin to fail, 1900 mile is pretty good, well above my average.

So what do we say to those who say they last thousands and thousand of miles and dont fail?

Just depends on factors , including alittle luck.

Thats why I had to invest in all the chemicals and acessories for a True reliable repair that wasnt a constant babying ordeal with leakage and failure.

But I use a worms for temporary repair, 1 out of ten may make it to end of life of the tire from my experience, and it all depends on the factors, do a quality internal repair and its a done deal.

I've used plugs in m/c tires before.  I certainly wouldn't use that tire on the track, mainly because of the carcass distortion and temperatures.  For the street they have held up just fine for me.  About the worst I can report is some slow leakage from the repair.  If you take your time and ream out the hole carefully you can prevent that.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 October 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Monk, on 09 October 2011 - 11:55 AM, said:

[image: View Post]CharlesW, on 09 October 2011 - 08:53 AM, said:

Nice write-up. :fing02:
Interesting that the el-cheapo repair was the one that got you home.

Will you now;
Replace the tire?
Remove the tire and plug it from the inside?
Leave it as it is?

I've always been leery of repairing a tire on a motorcycle for extended use.
A rapid loss of air on a 4 wheeler is a nuisance, a rapid loss of air on a 2 wheeler seems like it would be a disaster.
Even if you blow the plug....... IMHO ......... It's not going to lose the air like blowing a valve stem ....... AND the side walls on these high tech tyres are stiff enough to support the bike a lot better that the old radials ..... or car tyres for that matter........Just my opinion...

The plugs or worms will give out eventually if any road contact, usually they fail with me, 500 to 1200 mile, depending on the type of external repair. rain is bad for worm plugs, and the rubber is too soft with stop go types. Usually they'll start leaking verses blow out ,with either type.

The only time I've had them last the life of the tire , is if theres virtually no road contact , like in between a tread block, but dead center in the tire, normally takes on strong acceleration which reduces a plugs life considerably.


Rode my GSXR1000 from Toronto to Halifax, Nova Scotia.  On the day I was to ride back the 2000 k I found I had a nail in the centre of my rear tire.  Plugged it at a gas station using the conventional worm method.  Rode the bike back at speeds of upto 150 km/h.  About 400k of that was in the wet.  No trouble whatsoever, didn't lose a pound of air.  By the time I got home you couldn't see where the plug was.  Sold the bike a month later, so can't say how long the mend lasted (advised the dealer to replace the rear tire because it was plugged).

I wouldn't have any concerns with plugging a tire. If a plug can take the power of  a 150 hp bike, I don't think a 100 hp VFR would be any problem.