Coming on the heels of the recent 'I knew a guy who crashed blah blah blah!' thread, a friend in Denver sent me this link: http://www.denverpos...ews/ci_20566899
Another testament to ATGATT. The rider was wearing a full-face helmet and proper jacket. He still has a laundry list of painful-sounding injuries, but at least he's alive. It's like I said in 'I knew a guy who crashed...,' sometimes you can do everything right and still be taken out by a complete jack wagon.
[image: View Post]JeffLaurence, on 09 May 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:
Maybe RED LIGHTS should be BIGGER and REDDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Was she blabing on the phone? texting? READING??? Late for yoga???
I have mixed feelings about having cameras everywhere, but it's a no-brainer in intersections. Intersections are particularly dangerous for motorcyclists. In this case, the rider couldn't see Ms.Thomas as she approached behind cars waiting to turn left. I hope they throw the book at her and that gets published too.
The only accident I've had was basically the same thing. What's worse here, is he couldn't have seen it coming. He was blocked by the drivers in the left turn lane. That driver would have been T-boned by the minivan if she didn't hit the bike (and she wasn't wearing a helmet). In an odd way, that crash may have saved her life. She should be paying him $$$ for the rest of her life. Sure, he'd rather have his health, but it's something.
The only thing I've done sometimes (not always) that could minimize this is to not be the first through an intersection. I started that policy in my cage when I took off from a green light and hit a bicyclist who was coming across the crosswalk on red. He was illegal in LA (or at least that's the reason I give for the fact he took off). I didn't see him because a van was on my left blocking my view.
In an intersection that doesn't have a designated turning light, I use this policy. However, in the situation of the rider in the video, I probably would've just been squashed.
[image: View Post]Coastie, on 09 May 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:
Man that is terrible. That light was red for a long time. In intersections like that I always try to use other cars as rolling roadblocks.
That's my usual protocol, but most times, I'm first off the mark and get to the next light before everyone. This also points out the danger of having the turning light end simultaneous with the through traffic as opposed to before the through traffic begins. Normally, the turning light would turn into the intersection to indicate that through traffic should STOP!
They should hit her up with attempted involuntary manslaughter charges via gross negligence, permanent revocation of driver's license, and the biker should sue her so far into debt that she would be looking up at broke for the rest of her life. Possibly consider sterilizing her to remove her genes from the pool isn't a bad idea either. :rolleyes:
There's just no valid excuse for blowing that obviously red light and being hit like that hurts no matter how much gear you have on. Just watching that video makes me sick to my stomache. Perfect weather, beautifal day, out for a nice ride and then bam. :sad:
My bet would be that she was driving distracted (texting, talking on the cell, fiddling w/the radio, etc.). I never saw her brake lights come on until a split second before the impact. So I don't feel she was deliberately ignoring the light, but that she simply wasn't paying attention.
Clearly there's no excuse for the way she ran through the red light. However, as I watched the video I also realized that the rider appeared to have been accelerating fairly hard as he came through the intersection. Note that he was already traveling at a pretty good clip and was pulling away from the other vehicles before the impact. Since there's usually a delay after one light turns red before the opposing lights turn green, appears to me the rider must have been on the gas fairly hard for him to be carrying that much speed by the time he reached the middle of the intersection.
When a light turns green I habitually look both ways before proceeding to accelerate gently through the intersection while using my peripheral vision to continue scanning left and right for potential threats. If this rider had done similarly he probably would not have arrived in the middle of the intersection until after the red light runner had passed through.
I'm not suggesting he was in any way at fault, but just wanted to point out how accelerating fairly hard through an intersection right after a light turns green can carry more risk.
[image: View Post]smoothsailin, on 10 May 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:
When the light turns green I habitually look both ways before proceeding then accelerate gently through the intersection while still using my peripheral vision to continue scanning left and right for potential threats.
If this rider had done similarly he might not have arrived in the middle of the intersection until after the red light runner had come through.
I do pretty much the same thing here, I do not rush through the intersections but rather slowly cross the first opposing lanes until I have a good view of the traffic that would be on my right (typical intersection), then when I feel it's safe and clear, I'll pick up speed. As far as the driver, I see this a lot, either a texter, a talker, or a day dreamer! The best we can do is be alert and not let our guard down, keep your head on a swivel and wear protective gear.
The turning lanes going north/south are going before he sees green to east/west. That means north/south traffic should already be stopped to allow the north/south turns. When east/west turns green it's after north/south should have been stopped for the duration of north/south turns (yes I know some turns alternate with regular traffic flow = dangerous). He was probably between cars at the light and gave it gas to pull away from the other cars at green (I would have too).
Of course looking both ways is appropriate, but he'd have to see past the cars stacked up in the north/south turn position that didn't get to make the turn. He'd be lucky if he'd see anything. He made it past the first T-bone direction then passed the turning lanes, then BAMN!!
The best way to avoid this is not to be the first through the intersection and yet being in front of traffic is helpful to safety.
[image: View Post]smoothsailin, on 10 May 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:
Clearly there's no excuse for the way she ran through the red light. However, as I watched the video I also realized that the rider appeared to have been accelerating fairly hard as he came through the intersection. Note that he was already traveling at a pretty good clip and was pulling away from the other vehicles before the impact. Since there's usually a delay after one light turns red before the opposing lights turn green, appears to me the rider must have been on the gas fairly hard for him to be carrying that much speed by the time he reached the middle of the intersection.
After I took my certification course, I took a traffic skills course (admittedly this was 27 years ago ...). I remember being shown the stats for motorcycle accidents in the classroom part of the course, and a focus on the dangers of intersections. That, other motorcycling books and articles I've read and my own street riding experience have combined to help me form an intersection strategy. Basically, I slow down to the posted limit or slower when approaching, cover the brakes, scan in all directions to ensure that drivers have stopped as and where they should, keep a beady eye for left turners (lots of stats show that they don't see or misjudge the speed of motorcyclists), then, once I'm committed in the intersection, maybe 1/4 or 1/3 of the way across, I, too, grab a handful of throttle. I believe this is a recommended strategy to reduce your exposure in the intersection by reducing your time in it.
So, from what I can see in this case, the rider was doing everything right, the bimbo in the car was oblivious, the rider was unlucky (he couldn't see her approaching behind the cars turning left--one was a minibus), and only his decent gear saved him from more severe injuries or worse.
I don't think there's a moral to this story--just wear the best gear you can afford, at all times, and assume all the other road users are trying to kill you. Remember, it's not paranoia if it's true! :tongue:
[image: View Post]smoothsailin, on 10 May 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:
However, as I watched the video I also realized that the rider appeared to have been accelerating fairly hard as he came through the intersection. Note that he was already traveling at a pretty good clip and was pulling away from the other vehicles before the impact. Since there's usually a delay after one light turns red before the opposing lights turn green, appears to me the rider must have been on the gas fairly hard for him to be carrying that much speed by the time he reached the middle of the intersection.
From the video it looks like he reaches the middle of the intersection about the same time as the white minivan. He was accelerating hard but definitely appears to have started from a full stop.
She appears to hit the brakes the second before the impact, I'd guess something was distracting her, obviously. Maybe a just punishment, besides making the rider whole with medical bills, wages and a new bike, would be a 6 or 12 month license suspension, driver's ed class and forced MSF Basic Ridecourse motorcycle training? Put her on a bike for a weekend with a short street training ride and she'll never make that mistake again.
What's just as disturbing to me is that the cars travellng through the intersection with him didn't slow down or stop...guess they couldn't be bothered with checking to see if he was OK and being a witness...