Moved To Germany, Purchased 4Th Gen For Touring Europe?

Hello,

Full disclosure, I'm a 23 year old with only about 1 year (maybe 4000 miles) riding experience on a Suzuki SV650 (only bike I've ever ridden besides the ones in the MSF course). I'm from Dallas, Texas but I just moved to Munich, Germany. I would like to buy a motorcycle here to ride around Europe (alps, croatia, switzerland, france ect.) 

I have really fallen in love with the appearance of the 5th 4th gens, and 4th gens seem quite a bit cheaper in Germany. 

Is this a wise/safe decision for someone with my modest experience? Any bike recommendations? Any general advice for those older and wiser is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

David 

Edited: Mods please move to 4th gen forum if necessary. 

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Edited by svrider, 13 August 2013 - 02:17 PM.

What kind of license do you have over there? That will dictate what you can buy.

If you are comfortable and confident on the SV you should be fine on the VFR.  The VFR is much more solid and well built machine over the SV and you'll notice this the first time you sit on it.  The VFR is very touring friendly and is very comfy for long distance with a couple of minor mods.  I say go for it!!!  You are in a unique position and lucky to experience other parts of the world on two weels and what better way to do it than on a reliable Honda V4 with those sexy gear driven cams.  Us older farts we really envy you kid so make the most out of your trip and enjoy it.  As always remember to fully gear up !!!

Rollin

My Texas license translates to a class A german/eu license, which allows me to ride anything/any size engine. I will be able to ride on that for at least the next 6 months-1 year. After that I can technically trade in my Texas license for a German class A license (Texas being one of the few states that has supposedly has full reciprocity) 

I'm really excited about the prospect of owning a VFR, especially these magical gear driven cams that everyone talks about. I've done a lot of research and the VFR is very attractive to me. I suppose all that remains is the age old question of which generation to get.

I suppose my only concern with the VFR was its weight. I may have to drive in and out of Munich from time to time, and my relative inexperience combined with the VFR's weight is a bit daunting in a large european city. I did ride my sv650 in Dallas a lot so I do have some experience, but I would hate to drop the VFR in the city and damage those beautiful plastics...

Do not psych your self out....Germany is fun to ride in....although my experience was in 83 & 84... Over there they realize driving is a privilege not a right! so you have that battle won! If you have Dallas experience you will be fine! just use common sense. I am very envious you are in a wonderful area!!! If you can handle an SV you will have no problem on the VFR you probably will not even notice the extra weight.

Ride Safe and enjoy that part of the world!!!

Thanks guys, your encouragement is appreciated. I mainly just wanted to make a responsible decision. However, I may have actually posted in the wrong forum. I'm actually looking more seriously at 4th gens, though I am open to a 5th gen if I find the right deal.

I definitely appreciate the professionalism germans bring to driving--its definitely a privilege and not a right. There is extensive training and testing required to get a license and it costs over 1000 euro. Motorcycling is sometimes another year/1000+ euro and then you can only ride a 125cc for the first year. You're also limited to I think 50 hp if under age 25. Since I have a Texas license I should be able to bypass all of that. I can for sure drive any bike on my American license for the first 6-12 months.

Also, the inspections are extremely strict for cars so for the most part you don't have to worry about some hoopdi running into you--unless they drove from eastern europe.... And the roads are ridiculously pristine here... 

This is the one I'm looking at now it looks like a great deal, especially since it has the top case installed. 

http://suchen.mobile...Features=EXPORT

Hello David,

Welcome to Europe!

You will be fine with a 4th Gen, they are the best :-)

I looked at the add, the guy is on vacation till the 10th so no rush.

Looking at the picture that has the foot brake lever, I would say that the bike has been on its side at least once.
The lover frame spar -appears- to have a indentatin from the brake pedal.
My 4th gens has 2, from 2 tip overs. so if you go look at the bike, look if there is indeed an indentation. the add says the price is the starting point for negotiations. Look at bar ends/levers. If they are scratch-free, the he or the previous owever repalces them. same for bodywork. Look at the half moon shaped pieve over the tail light. These are prone to developing a crack (can be fixed), but this may help you knock down the price.
Disc rotors have service limit of 3.5mm. if there is 4mm left that is probably good for 40,000 kms.
The download section here on VFRD has the full manual (90-97) which includes other service limits.
Tires by law must have at least 1.6mm thread left. But more important is the DOT code on the side walls, they soww production week/year. If over 3 years I would knock down on price. And price a set of new ones. I like the Pilot Road2 rear and Pilot Power front combo, but there are plenty other good ones out there.

Ask about the volatage regu;ator, see if it is one that is a flat pack or one with cooling fans. Look up r/r here on VFRD for the inside story.
Easily fixed if broken, but mine is still the OEM flatpack since 1997 (albeit with a heatsink added..)


The 4th gen came with a solo cover over the passenger seat. Bonus if he still has it.

Coming from Texas, I reckon your biggest challenge will be the elevation changes and the fact that some roads were designed and build by the Romans....... Frshly tarmacced but still sweeping left and right!


Cheers,
Leon
So it would not hurt to look into an advanced training course. Let them assess your skills and take it from there.
Never too old too learn more!

Leon, thank you for checking it out. I honestly don't really know what to look for, but I am trying to learn as much as possible on the site. 

I will definitely try to ask the owner and negotiate, my only concern is that I do not speak German, trying to learn but I know very little right now. Also the price of 1580 euros seemed very reasonable with the topcase. I really want a topcase for touring.  I hope the tires are in order as I would like to ride it a bit before replacing, though I would want michelins on it asap as I loved the ones I had on my SV650.

How hard is it to carry luggage on a 4th gen?

Hi David,

The add doesnot mentio the box itself.  Maybe he still has it, if not why not? did he crash? :-)

If yiu ask the guy now what make/type the carrier is (ie Give have 2 non intrerchangeable systems, you can look up Ebay Germany for a used one. Will likely be aroudn 50 euro depening on state of course.

Carrying luggage is easy.....

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I'm not trying to discourage you from a 4th Gen since they are great bikes too but keep in mind that with a 5th Gen you get the added benefits of fuel injection and linked brakes which are well worth the extra dollars in my opinion.  How long do you plan on being in Germany?

Rollin

I've got a work visa that is good for a year. I would like to make it at least that long before I run out of money. I've got a couple gigs teaching english and I'm selling my car back home, hopefully I can make a go of it. 

Having ridden thousands and thousands of miles in the Eifel region, I can tell you with no reservations :  A 5th gen was made for the roads in Germany.  Get it. Ride it.  Have fun.

Welcome to Europe and enjoy your stay :fing02:
Of what I've heard of VFR owners that had them all, from 1st to 7th gen, the '98-'99 5th gen is the easiest to ride.

Btw, you being from Texas, are you familiar with snow? :biggrin:

When I was 22, I rode a BMW K100RS.......
Now that was a heavy bike..... ;-)

If you are comfortable and confident on the SV you should be fine on the VFR.  The VFR is much more solid and well built machine over the SV and you'll notice this the first time you sit on it.  The VFR is very touring friendly and is very comfy for long distance with a couple of minor mods.  I say go for it!!!  You are in a unique position and lucky to experience other parts of the world on two weels and what better way to do it than on a reliable Honda V4 with those sexy gear driven cams.  Us older farts we really envy you kid so make the most out of your trip and enjoy it.  As always remember to fully gear up !!!

Rollin

I just want to ditto all that Rollin said. I had a 5th gen before my present 6th. It was the first bike I ever owned. It was a bit of a learning curve but I made it. Just as Rollin said, the minute I sat on it I knew I was going to buy it. I rode that bike 10K before selling it to a 3rd gen guy after I had make an epic ride to Ontario and back (3013 miles). Buy it and enjoy the tour of Europe.

My answer would be, no.

The VFR is far more difficult to ride then a CBR600F (or such) that I would recommend.

If you done that little mileage I would not put you on a VFR, sorry.

As once you go over 6000rpm the power is explosive.

You would be better of with a line engine as they are far more linear on the gas versus power.

I did a drag-race the other day with my son on his CBR1000RR, I managed to keep up with him until 150km/h.

Since he saw that, he stopped calling my VFR800Fi an old folks bike.

Ok I've also found a 1998 Yellow 5th gen with 19k miles (30k kilometers) that appears to be garaged/in great shape for 2300 euro/3100us$. Evidently the guy bought it in Japan and brought it over to Germany. Also has raised bars and a throttle lock. He wanted $4000 but has dropped his price. 

Also, assuming I can get a decent 4th gen for 1600 euro, and a decent 5th gen for 2300 euro (holding condition relatively constant), is it worth going for the 5th gen? I realize this is a subjective issue. 

Hands down, fuel injected is the way to go.  For a daily rider, I wouldn't want to go back to a carbureted bike.

Don't do it, it's not a bike for the starter, and you are a starter. Get a BMW 800F or such instead. CBR1000F or so.

Don't go for a VFR, it's nothing near the SV650 you had before.

Even a GSX650F or a GSX750F would be far better and have enough power to satisfy you.

Else get an SV650 again.

Trust me, the VFR800 is far to powerful for a beginner to do a trip around Europe.

With 4000 miles you are a beginner, better take a BMW, CBRxxxxF, GSXxxxF or such.

Get a VFR or similar when you have done 50k or more, not before, as the bike does kill you in the mountains when not prepared.

A VFR can go from torque to a lot of torque without you doing much.

I seriously do not recommend this bike to a beginner. As you need to work hard in Europe and it's too explosive on the gas.

I hate to disagree but the power of the VFR isn't going to be a big deal compared to the SV, it'll be the weight of the bike.  The VFR is much heavier.  If you can get around that you'll be alright.

Honestly, the vfr is not a powerful bike... I have to completely disagree with some of the earlier posts about watching out about the vfrs big power.

The VFRs lack of power is what is keeping me from selling my CBR.

Evidently the guy bought it in Japan and brought it over to Germany.

Ask if the bike doesn't have some sort of power restriction, Japanese bikes tend to be HP restricted.

I hate to disagree but the power of the VFR isn't going to be a big deal compared to the SV, it'll be the weight of the bike.  The VFR is much heavier.  If you can get around that you'll be alright.

I have ridden on both as my son had an SV650S and I can tell you the difference is huge.

The VFR800 runs circles around an SV650S, heck you even pass it with ease with a GSX750F.

As for the CBR1000RR, yes it has loads of power, but the VFR800Fi can keep up to 150KM/h after that the CBR1000RR is gone for sure.

Don't know about the VFR1200F, it should be able to pass the CBR1000RR when the speedlimiter is removed :cheerleader:

The CBR1000RR is a cool bike, my son has it but I'm too old for the seat on it, don't like my knees in my neck :cool:

A VFR would make a nice natural progression from an sv650.

As for vfr's keeping up with cbr1000rr's...
Uhmm. No they won't.

Upto 150 they do, sorry mate, I tested with my son in a dragrace.

He wouldn't believe it, but had to admit it's the case.

109HP or 172HP, it really doesn't matter if you are unable to bring it on the street.

After 150 the VFR can't keep up.

I'm talking about 150 Kilometers/hour, not miles in case you missed that.

I bought the 1995 vfr750 for 1400euros. Just got it insured (check24.de is awesome!) and registered today, and have the new plate in my hands. Just have to wait until Thursday to go pick it up from the seller. 

Bike seems to be in good shape. The negatives are that it has 60,000kms, 4 previous owners (Germans) and while it does not have an accident reported on its documents, if you look closely, it seems that the front left fairing has been repainted. There is no obvious damage so maybe the bike fell over or something. I don't really care b/c it will be parked on the street and I might drop it anyway. Also, it will need new tires soon. Does anyone know how hard it is to find Michelin Pilots for this bike? 

Other that that, the bike looks really good. I test rode it for 30 or so minutes and everything seemed good, though I am not very technically experienced in what to look for. The only thing I noticed was that the upshifts seemed different than my SV, but I could have been doing something wrong. Also, when you let the clutch out when the bike is in neutral, the engine not changes slightly, is this normal?

The bike also has braided stainless steel brake lines installed, a charging port for electronics, and top case rack w/case. From the owners gestures it appears that he also replaced the steering bearings? and also the regulator/rectifier, but these bits were hard to translate. He spent 700euros about 3 years ago. 

Does anyone know how to say steering head bearings or regulator/rectifier in German?

Picking the bike up on Thursday, can't wait to ride it. Thinking about taking a trip up to Berchtesgadn/Alps for the weekend!

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Bearing = LENKKOPF-KEGELROLLENLAGER
 
Regulator = REGLER-GLEICHRICHTER

As for the tires, it should really no problem to get those.
Basically all bike-shops should sell them.

Check here, it should also recommend you somebody that can fit them: http://www.reifen-pneus-online.de/
I ordered my wifes tires there and it took less than a week to get them.

If you are in a hurry, goto any bike-shop.

Thanks! Are Pilot Road 2's the way to go? I've always heard good things about them.

Congrats on the new bike and living my dream in Europe! I'm glad some of the negative posts didn't turn you off from VFRs. Unless you're small in stature you won't have any problems. My '91 (3rd gen) is similar to yours and was my first bike.

FWIW I have PR3s (3s are slightly updated version of 2s) on my bike due to the many recommendations and endorsements on this site and I love them!

Please keep posting and let us know how you like riding in Germany.

Sorry you are wrong, most of the network is unlimited.
It's a just a few pieces near the French, Belgium and Dutch border that that limited, however that is just until you pass the big cities.
And if you go in the south near Munchen the Autobahn is a bikers dream with loads of very high speed curves.
Around SVrider it's a bikers paradise on the highway, trust me, I have been there a few weeks ago :cheerleader:

I've had 3 - SV650S models and a '99 VFR, plus others.  Cripes, I loved the VFR. . . But this aging body (79 in Oct.), and loosing upper body strength pushed me to sell the VFR recently.  (The one SVS left is getting conversions to allow a more upright position). Honda V4's disprove the old adage that "there's no substitute for cubic inches".  You'll enjoy the camaraderie and international support from this list.  Enjoy Europe!  Don't forget; the original Italy is not in TX.  ; )  Good fortune,  B~ 

Sorry you are wrong, most of the network is unlimited.
It's a just a few pieces near the French, Belgium and Dutch border that that limited, however that is just until you pass the big cities.
And if you go in the south near Munchen the Autobahn is a bikers dream with loads of very high speed curves.
Around SVrider it's a bikers paradise on the highway, trust me, I have been there a few weeks ago :cheerleader:

Sure, "most" of the network may be unlimited, but "most" of the network is not located where anyone is likely to be using it.  According to Wikipedia, "More than half of the total length of the German autobahn network has no speed limit, about one third has a permanent limit, and the remaining parts have a temporary or conditional limit."  But if you ride anywhere near the big cities, most of those Autobahnen will be limited in some way.  If you ride somewhere in the relative boondocks, you will not have that problem.  I found it frustrating to always slow down for "junctions"...or only discovering that there had been a speed limit upon seeing the "cancellation" sign!

Ciao,

I doubt you ever been in Germany, as my experience is totally different.

And I do go there a lot.

Dude, I've lived everywhere... :cool:

Ciao,

I didn't except for Holland, Belgium, Germany and France.

And Germany is the best to test your bike over long parts of the autobahn at top speed.

And not all junctions are limited, but if they are near big cities they are.

I'm going to Soest in a few days, after Unna (direction of Berlin) you can do more then 100km as fast as you like, regardless the junctions.

But there are a few Bundes-landern that are more strict on green-shit then others and impose more restrictions.

However, most has been lifted again as the people got tired of the CO2 mafia.

There is no country in the world as cool as Germany for bikers :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:

Germany does, however, sometimes close certain roads to bikes on weekends... :mad:

Ciao,

Well I think you've made an excellent choice... ok so it's an older model, ok so it's a carburretted bike... but over here in Spain, some of my closer riding buddies have the 4th gen and swear by this model.

I first bought the 5th gen and now have a 6th gen and feel that the 6th gen has a better rolling chasis than the 5th.. a little lighter on it's feet... but they are much heavier beasts and I agree with whoever said that it's not the power of the VFR that could get you into trouble but the weight, which at roughly 250 kg creates some important inertias to overcome... and we all know inertia doesn't like to be overcome... but all that is required is to not be a hothead squid and take your time to get to know how this bike's weight handles... set up your corner speed BEFORE entering.

But I did sit on a 4th gen and feel you have made a good choice because the 3rd and 4th gens are notably smaller... my knees did not fit behind the fairing and the thing felt much more toy-like to my 6'4" frame. Sincé then I have tried my riding buddy's 4th gens and can say that they handle very well and being carburretted are much less snappy on the throttle than a fuel injected 5th or 6th gen.

I disagree, the VFR is NOT a bike which pulls well at higher revs... I have spent endless days at the track on mine and you just can't get any squirt (out of the 6th gen) if you spend all your time over 9 - 10,000 rpm... the VFR is also NOT known for it's low-down torque... compared to other bikes of a similar nature... it's an all-rounder... the RR in-lines DO work well at high revs and DON'T usually work well down low...

The SV is an excellent track-bike for up to a medium level rider cause it's well on the light side... my younger sister had one for several years. Obviously the litre bikes will leave both the VFR and the SV650 behind on the straights... I can say I am able to keep up with many in the curves but as soon as there's a relatively straight section... adiós...

Anyway... one of my buddies 4th gen has seen more than 140,000 km all over Spain and Europe and runs to perfection (he does all the maintenance)... it's an excellent sporty-touring bike... he generally leaves the topbox on and only throws on sidebags for long journeys... like the one he's on right now as I type... a bunch of mates have got together and ridden from Valencia to Brno to see the race... and will return via a different route so as to see new sights. He keeps up with the VFR1200F and actually usually leads the group rides we go on 'cause no-one can keep up. he used to take her on the track... but realized the VFR is not really a track bike and has since gone through a CBR929 and currently a K4 GSXR1000RR... but keeps the VFR750 for touring and bike meets as the RR is track dedicated.

We swapped bikes one day up in curvey mountain country and I must say I felt instantly confident and actually left him behind... but noted how much smaller and lighter it seemed.

Another buddy has two 4th gens.. one for the road and one for the track, heavily modified to reduce weight etc... he can keep up with me no worries and on certain parts of more technical tracks leaves me behind...

You'll be fine. Take it easy at first and get to know her... maybe don't fill the tank all the way to keep centre of balance lower... but although I had a few hairy moments when I first got my 5th gen due to the weight... I actually only crashed years later and with 100,000 km under my/her belt, but the accident was on the 6th gen... which I had had for some time... and it was due to mud on the road in Winter... the rear went on me when downshifting one gear too many and I literally slid for 20 m trying to regain control... hit the guardrail... INERTIA... since then I have done another 60,000 km on the 6th gen after replacing the front end and plastics.

Oh, and BTW... Germany is NOT the only country in Europe with safety checks for motorcycles... I would venture to say they ALL do... but can only really vouch for Spain... I just passed mine last week... new bikes have their first inspection after 5 years and then every two years after that.

I would NOT recommend you buy an in-line RR bike... they DO have gumptions of power and will wheelstand without you really wanting to, and are so light that the rear CAN spin out on you much more easily under heavy acceleration... and the more you twist the throttle and the higher up the revs you go, the more power they give out. And they brake so hard you lose traction much more easily or the rear Wheel comes up off the ground (again breaking traction)...

But really.. it depends on the rider's mentality. If you have your wits about you and don't go trying to be Rainey, you'll be fine.

In the following countries there are no checks for sure: Holland, Belgium, Austria and Luxembourg

In fact, in most countries there are no checks as far as I know.

The EU wants to make all countries to have inspections, but there are a lot of people against it.

I'm not as long as they don't kill the after-market stuff.

Well I don't know about MOST countries not having inspections but it would purpose me. Ireland, England, US, Australia all do.. Actually really surprised all those northern European countries don't have them.. The northern Europeans are renowned for being much more sensible folk than the Mediterraneans.

PPlenty of aftermarket gear is valid for Spain, just requires the "e" mark for European homologated standards requirements and Bob's your uncle.

also people whack on whatever and just swap it out for the original when time comes for the inspection, them whack the after market one back on!!