Intermittent Charge/battery Failure.

Rode about 350 miles yesterday in the mountains of NH.  On my way home, I stopped for a fuel up and the bike would not restart (no battery power, lights barely visible on dash).  Here are the details.

1. I turned off and restarted the bike 30 times that day, no sign of weak starting.

2. The failure was after a 10 mile stretch at 90mph or so.  5k rpm  charging should have been enabled.

3. This happened about a month ago when I went on a 300 mile + ride.  Pop-started and drove away so I thought I could do that again.

4. Last night at the gas station I pop-started the engine, but when I revved it to leave, the engine died.

5. Got a jump start but the bike died every time I removed the cables.

I bummed a ride home, grabbed my XR650L battery, went back to the station, swapped batteries, drove the 5 miles home and now am stumped on where to begin testing.

The problem is intermittent so I don't believe testing is going to turn up much info.  Perhaps if I knew more about the system.  Does the bike not run without a battery like a car?

I have 2 ideas for moving forward.

1. Carry a multimeter and spare battery until it happens again.  Sucks.

2. Replace the old battery and install a charging voltmeter.  (maybe the single led which flashes depending on voltage)

Note: The battery is pretty weak in general but I can't figure the sharp drop-off to no power in the last 10 miles of the trip.  I restarted it 10 miles before and it was strong. 

There is a related/unrelated problem.  When I ride at night, the first time or two switching from High beams to low beams there is a 1-5 second delay where the headlights are not on.  Blackout scary.

Open to ideas from folks who know more about this stuff.  

I was writing a reply but got distracted by the MotoGP race. Since then you edited your post. You said that you had 12.4V at 5K rpm. That is too low for charging. You should be seeing about 14.4V. It could be either the stator not putting out enough AC voltage, or the r/r over regulating. You will have to run some voltage and continuity checks on both to identify the culprit.

Ya I removed the numbers because I had a jump pack hooked to a dead battery so figured they wouldn't be accurate.  I'm reading ElectroSport's Fault finding flow chart for motorcycle charging systems.

My numbers were basically 13.? idle.  Dropped to 12.? when revved past 5k.  Which fits the chart below

It shows at low rpm the bike should output more than 13.5 which it was.  

At 5k plus it should be lower than 14.8V.  which it was

I assume it's dropping when I go into the higher rpms because it directs current to the battery?

[image: 8it3.jpg]

I'll toss the good battery in and get some real numbers if that helps.

EDIT

Readings with good battery though slightly undersized which shouldn't matter.

Battery ignition off 12.5

ignition on, motor off  11.5

idle 13.7

5k plus 13.1

Yes above 5000 rpm voltage needs to be below 14.8v but it also needs to be above 13.5v.

Voltage on a healthy system increases with rpm.  Decreasing voltage could mean the stator winding insulation is deteriorating, arching is occurring as voltage increases, and a new stator maybe needed.

Test the ac voltage of the stator disconnected from the regulator/rectifier.

 First thing is to check all the wiring, but low charge voltage is an indication of a bad stator. There's a couple different ways to test those: voltage, and resistance between the legs respectively. This must be done both cold, and at operating temperature with the stator disconnected from the bike.

Don't know if you checked yet, but have a look at the stator connector ( on the 3 yellow wires) to the RR.
These are notorious.Also check main(30 amp) fuse holder ( in the starter solenoid ass'y) and connections at the main ignition switch.Also check all grounds.
GL
Jeff

Is it the original R/R? If it is I'll bet that's your problem. FH12aa off e-prey is the way to go for a replacement. Lots of good info on here about R/r problems-the only flaw with the bike. 

Test system, make sure it's good except the battery which sounds to be deceased.

Or, just replace battery and see if it's good. I'm liking the Ballistic so far. :sleep:

The VFR charging system is a 4 legged stool of -- battery/connectors & harness/ Regulator Rectifier/Stator. If one is bad it can effe up another. 

For testing and debugging --- I put this straight up testing list together to keep it simple stupid. Good luck

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Go through all your connectors for burnt leads, dig deep. Crispy wires? Not good. Your gonna have to fix that!  

Then---Go through this starting point quick list.  You will need a multimeter too.

Steps:

- Recharge battery overnite - then to take it to Autozone or similar to load test. -- Good? Bad? – An iffy battery can fake you out and act like a bad R/R. Buy new if needed.

- With good battery fire it up, warm up for a minute or two.

These are R/R quick checks---

--- With voltmeter at battery get voltages -- idle volts? 5000 rpm volts? What’s the numbers? Should be in 13ish min idle and in 14s at revs. If in the 12s at idle, try at 1900 rpm.

- Check stator

- 1. Pull connector apart. Set meter to resistance. Check pin to pin, 3 yellow wires, A to B, B to C, C to A. What’s  the numbers? 3 separate readings --Should be less than 1.0 ohms.  (Engine off)

- 2. Check continuity from each A,B,C pin to ground, -- -should be infinity - nada nothing. no continuity.  --   3 separate checks. (Engine off, again connector is apart)

- 3. Crank it back up. Do another pin to pin thing, but set meter on AC volts. idle and 5000 rpms. What's da numbers? Should start 15 -20ish and climb 50ish and more.  Again – 3 readings, connector still apart.

- Repeat hot.

This quick list will catch the obvious stuff, but if you need to dig deeper check this chart.

http://www.electrosp...ing-diagram.pdf

Testing has identified that voltage drops when engine revs up.  I'm told this is a sign of weak charging and needs to be resolved.  I've tested the stator both hot and cold via all 3 recommended tests.  All passed flawlessly.  My next steps are.....

1. Go through the wiring.  Clean, upgrade(beef up wire gauge), re-ground, dielectric grease and inspect everything.  

2. Install a volt meter

3. Swap the battery and start driving it to see what the volt meter shows on the fly (will keep jump pack or spare battery with me).

4. If there is no improvement I will replace the RR

Battery ignition off 12.5
ignition on, motor off  11.5
idle 13.7
5k plus 13.1

Sure that other battery is good?
It should not drop to 11.5 with just an ignition off, should stay well above 12V.

To me that tells me the "new" battery isn't good either.
Just contact and dropping to <12V is bad battery in my opinion.

Try a new battery that is fully charged, then look at the numbers.

Testing has identified that voltage drops when engine revs up.  I'm told this is a sign of weak charging and needs to be resolved.  I've tested the stator both hot and cold via all 3 recommended tests.  All passed flawlessly.  My next steps are.....

1. Go through the wiring.  Clean, upgrade(beef up wire gauge), re-ground, dielectric grease and inspect everything.  

2. Install a volt meter

3. Swap the battery and start driving it to see what the volt meter shows on the fly (will keep jump pack or spare battery with me).

4. If there is no improvement I will replace the RR

Bassie points out the battery concern. I'm also with that, a good battery is first priority. --  If you can confirm you have a solid battery in your bike, my vote is to replace the R/R. --- Replacements? either   www.roadstercyle.com (Shindengen) or www.wiremybike.com (Ricks)

- Just installed a Shindengen in a buddy's bike and it works fine. ----- I have no experience with the Ricks, but quite a few VFRDr's have had good luck with them. --- -Replacing the OEM part with another OEM part on that '98 is probly not a good idea.  Also, dont cheap out, you get what you pay for on these.