3Rd Gen Vs 4Th

Let me start by saying I've only owned 4th gens, and one 5th (which was not my favorite ride). I have a line on a complete 3rd gen with 25k on it and left hand full d and d system on it. Bike runs, but needs a front tire and a caliper sticks, no biggie. What else should I expect from this bike vs a 4th gen? It's a 92 if that makes a difference. How do the ergonomics compare? How about the geometry etc? Any thing from anyone is appreciated...tnx[image: post-22672-0-44188700-1379550737.jpg]

i believe the 8 spoke rear is a 180 vs the 4th gen 170.

The motors are virtually identical as is the riding position. The 3rd gen is a little heavier, has a wider 6-spoke wheel, and a slightly smaller fuel tank. It also has a fussier, more complicated fairing - lots & lots of fragile tabs. That said, the biggest difference is in the styling.

A set of 5th/6th gen mirrors make for a nice update.

Spares might be a bit harder to come by for the 3rd but they are both a decade and a half old so that comes with the territory. Electrics are the most likely source of trouble so give all the connections a thorough inspection and cleaning.

Imnsho, the 3rd gen are the best looking VFRs:

[image: LBB4865e]

that is seriously sexy with the white rims...how is handling vs the 4th?

id buy it just for the exhaust.

anyways the 3rd gen has 36mm carbs versus the 4th gens 34mm carbs.

maybe some extra cam or compression as well.

and lorne its an 8 spoke.

mcrwt644

that is seriously sexy with the white rims...how is handling vs the 4th?

I've never ridden a 4th gen but by all accounts there is no significant difference when ridden on the street. Don't forget, 3rd & 4th gens were ranked as top sport-tourers throughout the 1990's.

Fwiw, I think the 5th & 6th gen 800s are better handlers but not by a lot. And a good suspension update to an older bike would do wonders.

IF I remember correctly, the 3rd GENs are about 50 lbs. heavier.

then what? a fourth gen? lol

you are right about it being heavier though. i just looked it up.

3rd gen is 538 pounds

4th gen is 523 pounds

the 86 weighed only 505. i want to build an 86 bad now. :cheerleader:

rangemaster

IF I remember correctly, the 3rd GENs are about 50 lbs. heavier.

doing some research, it appears that the vfr put on some weight from the 86 to the third gen 90. about 30 pounds.

rangemaster

IF I remember correctly, the 3rd GENs are about 50 lbs. heavier.

You remember wrong, padewan. The 4th gen was maybe 15 lbs lighter, largely from dropping the centre stand.

And the '86 had skinny-mini 37 mm forks, skinny wheels, and skinny tires. And a forked swing arm.

Tanstaafl

good stuff!

Lorne

mcrwt644

that is seriously sexy with the white rims...how is handling vs the 4th?

I've never ridden a 4th gen but by all accounts there is no significant difference when ridden on the street. Don't forget, 3rd & 4th gens were ranked as top sport-tourers throughout the 1990's.

Fwiw, I think the 5th & 6th gen 800s are better handlers but not by a lot. And a good suspension update to an older bike would do wonders.

if the 5th gens were better handling, I'll stick with the 3rd and 4th. I did NOT like my 5th gen. So, this bike being sans center stand due to the exhaust, the 3rd and 4th would be comparable in weight then.

Manufacturers like Michelin officially recommend both 3rd (90-93) and 4th gen (94-97) rear as 170/60

But the 3rd gen takes a 180/55 gladly.

The 4th Gen took its styling queus from the NR. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..

The 3rd gen (at least in the EU) will produce a bit more power; because the noise/pollution regulation will have been a bit more relaxed when it was homologated. Not much in it though since the 3rd gen is a bit heavier.

So what you really want is a 4th Gen with a 3rd gen rear wheel.....

[image: post-8974-0-92163300-1379580454.jpg]

Only owned a 3rd gen and 6th gen and of course there's a world of difference but after 5 years I have to say the 6th gen has won me over even with its stator problems . I always thought the 3rd gen had more power when the carbs were right.

Lorne

rangemaster

IF I remember correctly, the 3rd GENs are about 50 lbs. heavier.

You remember wrong, padewan. The 4th gen was maybe 15 lbs lighter, largely from dropping the centre stand.

4th gen still had the center stand.

3rd gen = red line

5th gen = green line

6th gen = yellow line

These are EU/German models/measurement

[image: IM000015.jpg]

I don't think D&D ever made anything other than a slip-on. Probably a D&D end can on a Yoshimura half-system, but could be a Kerker half-system or something else, like a TBR full system or a Sebring...

OEM rear tires were indeed 170x60 Bridgestone Cyrox (not quite as highly regarded as the company's later offerings!), though most probably sport 180s on those 5.5" rear rims by now.

The US-spec 3rd gens did not have center stands at all, but this was a Hondaline option (which weighed a ton, due to a heavy cast iron bracket). The 4th-gens all had center stands, but by that time Honda had figured out how to mount them directly to the engine, so no heavy bracket was used. Accordingly, a comparably equipped 3rd gen would weigh a fair bit more than a 4th gen.

I've ridden both, though I've only owned a 3rd gen (since new), and I'd say the 4th gen feels a little bit lighter and more nimble, but these are things that can be changed on both bikes, depending on your budget and interest. They're essentially the same frame, swing arm and engine, but everything was slightly changed on the 4th gen. Even the headlight unit is almost the same, but slightly different.

When the 4th gen came out, I accepted that it was an improved bike, but not sufficiently so to warrant my switching over to one. Which one is "better" depends mainly on what you like, and can afford!

Let me know if any more 3rd-gen trivia is required!

Ciao,

Dutchy

Manufacturers like Michelin officially recommend both 3rd (90-93) and 4th gen (94-97) rear as 170/60

But the 3rd gen takes a 180/55 gladly.

The 4th Gen took its styling queus from the NR. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..

The 3rd gen (at least in the EU) will produce a bit more power; because the noise/pollution regulation will have been a bit more relaxed when it was homologated. Not much in it though since the 3rd gen is a bit heavier.

So what you really want is a 4th Gen with a 3rd gen rear wheel.....

[image: attachicon.gif]small.jpg

that fourth gen is tits. care to talk about that rear wheel? i noticed the single nut ;)

CandyRedRC46

that fourth gen is tits. care to talk about that rear wheel? i noticed the single nut ;)

fooled you, eh!? its just a spiffy cover. :happy:

>:(

what I want is a 4th gen, but can't necessarily afford one at the moment. I have a line on one with 14k on it, but no way to get to it. This 3rd gen is much closer and I can get it for 3 digits vs 4 and I've never owned a 3rd gen. I'm hoping to pick her up this week. I see the 3rd gen weighed in at 15lbs heavier than a 4th...not terrible by any means and a bit of trimming can fix that...

You will not be disappointed, nor short changed with a 3rd gen.

mcrwt644

if the 5th gens were better handling, I'll stick with the 3rd and 4th. I did NOT like my 5th gen. So, this bike being sans center stand due to the exhaust, the 3rd and 4th would be comparable in weight then.

Yeah, the weight difference favours the 4th gens but isn't significant.

As Dutchy says, you won't be disappointed with the 3rd gen.

Fwiw, contemporary magazine road tests only noted slight differences between these models.

Dutchy

Manufacturers like Michelin officially recommend both 3rd (90-93) and 4th gen (94-97) rear as 170/60 But the 3rd gen takes a 180/55 gladly.

All the early 1990's sport 750s used 5.5" rear wheels and 170/60 tires. By the time the VFR800 arrived a 180/55 was the new standard. The 4th gen saved a few grams by going to a 5" rear which limits it to a 170/60. But again, this is of no significance to the street rider.

Another difference with the carbs was the 4th gen used semi-flat slide CV carbs as was used on the latest CBRs back then. The 3rd Gen used more conventional round slide CV carbs. The smaller throat size on the semi-flat slide carbs supposedly helps the engine develop more torque ealier in the rev curve compared the the ones on the 3rd gens.

With the modest HP the two gens made, I don't think the wider rim and tire on the 3rd Gen makes for any real advantage, except for looks, It's more likely that the heavier rear wheel and tire on the 3rd gen can slow down the bikes turning a little bit, but most likely only be noticable at the more extreme turning or directional transition by advanced riders.....

Beck

...It's more likely that the heavier rear wheel and tire on the 3rd gen can slow down the bikes turning a little bit,

Funny thing is, dutchy weighed the two wheels he had, both with PR2 tires, and the 8 spoke with the 180 tire was a touch lighter.

mcrwt644

I see the 3rd gen weighed in at 15lbs heavier than a 4th...not terrible by any means and a bit of trimming can fix that...

If that 3rd Gen has a full header system (as the pic seems to indicate) it is already line-ball with a 4th Gen on weight. The collector header system on the 3rd Gen is the most significant part of the weight difference.

Grab it! You won't regret it.

apexandy

Beck

...It's more likely that the heavier rear wheel and tire on the 3rd gen can slow down the bikes turning a little bit,

Funny thing is, dutchy weighed the two wheels he had, both with PR2 tires, and the 8 spoke with the 180 tire was a touch lighter.

a 1993 8 spoker freshly powdercoated with a 180 PR2 weighs 11.7 kilo

a 1997 OEM wheel with a 170 PR2 weighs 11.9 kilo

:cool:

^^wow, never would have thought!!

and a 5th/6th gen to please?! lol

A few updates...I pick up the bike on Sunday

Should I immediately go to the vfrness on this bike, are they as bad with R/R's as the 4th gen?

D and D tech support wrote me back and said they never made any left hand exhaust for that bike...that is until I sent a pic to them...then they said they never made a header for it....so not sure where that leaves that portion of it.

Yes, 3rd gens are known to eat RRs as much as 4th and early 5th gen VFRs.....

Change it and lessen the chances of getting stranded....but still not a 100% guarantee, as other stuff upstream and downsteam the RR is kinda marginal......

Unfortunately, Honda seemed to have wanted to emulate British electrics for the past with their VFR charging systems. The Japanese must have their own "Prince of Darkness"..... :rolleyes:

It's been too long, what do I need to do and with what r/r to replace this one?

I found a smokin hot deal on a set of new dunlop q2s, that I get today....

How much do you want to do? There's a whole list of stuff you 'could' do. You could change the oil and tires and go, or rebuild everything front to back. Matter of time and money.

Minimum I would do is oil and filter, bleed brake and clutch. You're getting new tires, so check the chain and sprockets too.

I wouldn't lose sleep over the R/r. Mine died out slowly when I was out in Colorado for Summer Summit. After it cooled off and I bumb started it, it was fine the rest of the day. There was an active thread a bit ago about new aftermarket R/r replacements I'll try and dig up. Some have replaced with R1 and GSXR R/rs with a bit of wiring. The VFRness isn't a requirement, but if you have a bit of extra cash it's a good investment.

the bike will get a full going over, I use to work in a race shop in San Diego and all bikes I get go to the 'dr'. Oil, filter, chain clean and lube, anti freeze drain and fill, gas treatment after fresh gas, complete and utter detail, charging system check, change brake and clutch fluid and bleed, probably new ebc hh pads up front....that'll get me started :)

I haven't done a rewire on a r/r before...I know I have a ninja 650 r/r out in the garage that I know is good...I had one r/r go out on me once out of 3 fourth gens and 1 fifth gen, so I am not too terribly worried there, not yet anyway.

I got the tires and they are brand spankin new and I got them for a song...can't buy the rear for what I got the set for.

I'll post pictures as I get them of the bike and her progress. Sunday can't get here soon enough

I just went out, bought the proper gage and color wires needed, added connectors, and made a little taped up bundle of wires to go between harness and R/r.

if your worried about being stuck on the road. by a spare R/R and keep it on the bike. :fing02:

The best $20 I spent on my bike was for an onboard voltmeter. Talk about piece of mind. Run through a relay, I know exactly what the state of my recharging system is, and I can identify issues before I get stranded.

The second best investment was for the VFRness. I ride at a solid 14.5V all day. A load off my mind.

Congratulations on the aquisition. D&D never made a full system, odds are you have either a TBR or Hindle full system with a D&D canister on it.

would someone do me the dubious honor of sending me directions on how to wire up an r1 r/r ?

mk2, what relay did you run the voltmeter off of? can you send photos to me or post them up? Thanks all

http://roadstercycle.com/

3 yellow wires from the stator to the rr, soldered directly. two rr output wires from the rr to the battery (fused in between). ignore all the honda wiring and connections along the way. they are garbage. voltage gauge its basically a necessity and a vfrness is almost too.

mcrwt644

would someone do me the dubious honor of sending me directions on how to wire up an r1 r/r ?

mk2, what relay did you run the voltmeter off of? can you send photos to me or post them up? Thanks all

I'm running 3 powerports under my seat through a regular 30amp automotive relay from Pepboys. Relay turns on with a switched power source. My voltmeter taps off from the powerport wiring. I have compared the onboard voltmeter and a DMM directly on the battery, and the read within .1V of each other.

I could draw something up, but pics will be difficult to see. Enough electric tape hides all!

well, I picked the bike up yesterday just outside of Baltimore. Man, I've got to get canyon dancer tie downs...this old fashion way of doing it is for the birds.

I saw a few things immediately not visible in the pics. She had gone down, left side, but not bad, not with these plastics anyway...there is a slight scrape on the swing arm on the left side where maybe the mid pipe hit it. The mid pipe is dented and will not come off the header. The calipers need to be rebuilt, they are STUCK...so, the owner had one hanging, ugh, and one bolted, only the one that was bolted was RUBBING on the rim, pulling paint off as it went. The front tire is toast, I knew that...rear is shot, but I have q2s waiting. It needs a kick stand spring, who knows why that is missing. The exhaust can hanger is missing.

Otherwise, she's complete. yes, a few dings and scratches, a chipped fairing here and or there, but overall not too terrible.

So, I stripped her down yesterday....much further than I had planned on for the first day. She's dirty...hasn't been apart in a LONG time. Whomever told me that there were differences between the 3rd and 4th gens wasn't kidding. extra screws and silly things here and there. I thought the 4th gens had too much holding them together....

Yes, I believe for my online folks, I should've taken pics, but there are hardly any bikes I've owned that after getting them home (unless they run already) I don't take pics of. I usually wait until after they at least crank for that to happen. I'm superstitious about it??

I found a few other things too...I might need fork seals, can't tell just yet....front brakes at a minimum...maybe rear, and a rear rotor. A few small wiring things I see that just need tracking down, like only half a ground wire? The other half mysteriously disappears into the loom? Looks like the r/r may have gotten hot (figure that). Stator appears ok. I need a battery. I pulled the plugs...they reeked of gas...oil fouled.

I dropped the oil....it was almost olive green and just stunk of gas...I'm almost certain the carbs leaked gas into the case. I let the oil drain for about an hour...new filter in, new oil coming.

Carbs fought me big time, but I eventually won out, and they slipped off. They have been soaking now for over 7 hours.

Front wheel was on backwards....I very well may need a front axle as well. The left side is actually mushroomed from being hit back through...ugh. That took a min to get straight as well.

I'm racking my head right now for what else I found....other than the nasty stale gas smell I despise that now dominates my garage. She is getting her second bath here in just a bit. I'll post pics here when I hit a good restarting point.

So how many $100 bills did the previous owner GIVE you to take her off his hands????

:goofy:

apparently, NOT enough. I've seen worse, it's just that I feel I was misled...no, the guy didn't know what he was doing, and yes, I have seen worse, but UGH, the further I dug, the worse it seemingly got. One good thing, no wire hacking involved. And I did probably overdue it yesterday...I didn't get to bed until one thirty am.

ok, so got the plugs back in, carbs cleaned, oil in, anti freeze in...she won't run...fuel pump is funky I think...wires have been cut. She'll run for a min on starter fluid, but when I check to see if there is gas in the bowls, there isn't...disconnect between the tank and carbs somewhere. I haven't had good luck with fuel pumps before...anyone have any suggestions, I'm all ears

I heard the fuel pump come on once for about 15 seconds, and nothing since...

Newton is your friend here, try gravity feeding.... :cool:

You can easily test if the fuel pump is working. Just disconnect the fuel out line and turn the pump on. Not sure if you have to short the switch or if it starts up when you turn the key. It should give very clear instructions in the manual. Just make sure you have something to catch the fuel.

If fuel pumps, then check the filter. If filter is fine, then something might be blocking flow to the carbs.

I got her running! I'm not really surprised, but happy. LOTS of time on her today, like 9 hours or so. The fuel pump I believe was working the whole time. I think that the PO had the in and out hoses swapped. Wires were cut. I re soldered them, put the cover back on, hooked her up, and she cranked and a few seconds later was running.

Exhaust leak on no 2, but I can't go any tighter on the bolts. I'm going to have to get an exhaust gasket. Calipers are absolutely stuck. I'll soak them for a day or so and see if I can't get the pistons will cooperate.

Tach wasn't working...Ants IN the cluster...LOTS of ants. they were not happy when I dissected the cluster and hundreds came out. A shot of wd and the tach works just fine.

The temp gauge works in REVERSE?? Something is amiss there and I have an 'open/orphaned' plug coming from the loom near the cluster that I can't find a mate for.

She still needs a laundry list of things. I have to stay within my budget though and right now that isn't much. I must get the mid pipe off, it's driving me nuts and that friggin PAIR system is in the way of everything. I have to get block off plates.

One other thing I found I haven't ever seen in 25 years of riding...the front sprocket is CRACKED in five places...so, all new sprockets and chain on the list too. I'll just do a typical 530 replacement.

I can probably start to clean up parts and put fairings back on in a few days. I'd show pics, but really, it looks like any other naked third gen

Sounds like a basket full of fun, but it runs. :cheerleader:

Three pins? That "orphan" connector is probably for the optional digital clock (optional on US-spec bikes), so don't worry about it. Temp sensor wired backwards? Sounds like the bike has had a hard life, but you're getting it sorted.

Ciao,

If the front axle was hammered through-- didn't that destroy the bottom fork leg ( maybe need a machinist to make up a sleeve?

GL,

Jeff

JZH

Three pins? That "orphan" connector is probably for the optional digital clock (optional on US-spec bikes), so don't worry about it. Temp sensor wired backwards? Sounds like the bike has had a hard life, but you're getting it sorted.

Ciao,

Makes sense, I just saw that in the service manual

The temp sensor I believe is bad. 'Thermosensor' as Honda calls it. The manual states that if it does this during their 'test' it's the thermosensor.

I suppose my choice of words wasn't too good. The axle wasn't pushed through, just hit hard enough to actually mushroom the end on the left hand side of the bike as you sit on it.

I'm getting block off plates, I hate this PAIR system. I never knew it was so in the way until I didn't take this one off.

I very well may go looking for a set of calipers since these could be just too far gone. Does anyone have any other tricks for getting them unstuck? I tried the air compressor, but not for long at about 120 psi, but I was nearing the end of my 'shift' and getting too tired.

What were stock main jets in the third gens? This one has 124's in it, but it certainly has adjustable needles in it too.

While the carbs were off, I polished the vacuum slide sleeves ('in' the carbs themselves) and the velocity stacks.

With regard to all of the plastic shielding, are most just overkill from Honda, and which ones, if any, are necessary?

I'll be searching ebay for tank rubbers, block off plates, calipers etc...Until the next update (maybe pics) adios

front two cylinders apparently do not have exhaust gaskets. Missing a exhaust bolt on the right rear cylinder...might as well go ahead and do that when I drop the subframe to do the pair. Right fork seal is leaking. Brake calipers will not come unglued...a set on ebay for $35 usd. Didn't do much on her today. Rinsed the overflow and put it at the right level, took some oil out of the crank case to make the level perfect, put the carb shield back in, dilectric greased all the electronic couplings, and cleaned up a bit.

Prioritizing the purchases. Brake calipers come first and then a slew of other things.

mcrwt644

front two cylinders apparently do not have exhaust gaskets. Missing a exhaust bolt on the right rear cylinder...might as well go ahead and do that when I drop the subframe to do the pair. Right fork seal is leaking. Brake calipers will not come unglued...a set on ebay for $35 usd. Didn't do much on her today. Rinsed the overflow and put it at the right level, took some oil out of the crank case to make the level perfect, put the carb shield back in, dilectric greased all the electronic couplings, and cleaned up a bit.

Prioritizing the purchases. Brake calipers come first and then a slew of other things.

Brake calipers ?? unglued??

all you have to do.. remove the pads.. pump until the pistons come out if that doesnt work.. take off the caliper. and use an air compressor to push the piston out... 100 psi does wonders..

​ just make sure the pistons are facing down on a block of wood or something.

well...... he wrote he did try to 120psi......

Sometimes things really are FUBAR :goofy:

Dutchy

well...... he wrote he did try to 120psi......

Sometimes things really are FUBAR :goofy:

whoops i missed that..

deaf AND blind today!!

too bad he didnt contact me.. i have all the stuff he needs :wink:

I still want to know how he's riding and stopping if the front calipers are that stuck

Dang, that last owner was pretty hard on that bike!..... I hope you did not get her too late.....

Good luck on the re-build!

yeah, brakes I couldn't even squeeze them shut. now they won't come out, at all. set on ebay for $35. PO hadn't ridden it in some time...yes, it's a work in progress for sure and she was neglected big time. I'll post some pics soon, but like I said, it's just a sad looking naked 3rd gen.

Brakes are FREE! rebuild of calipers in progress. missing 'spring' plates too! Clutch is bled...time for bed :)

mcrwt644

front two cylinders apparently do not have exhaust gaskets.

The OEM exhaust gasket is a collapsible copper "donut", which can get flat as a pancake if re-used and the headers are torqued down hard enough. The gasket might be there; you just cannot see it. Feel around the exhaust port with a steel pick; there should be no "lip".

Ciao,

if they are there, they are flatter than any exhaust gasket I've seen and I've seen a ton. I can't even discern a color difference when scratching where they should be with a pick...can't even catch any sort of lip with a pick

Found a good fork seal I believe, so I won't have to buy them, just yet...budget, budget and yes, budget build.

mcrwt644

if they are there, they are flatter than any exhaust gasket I've seen and I've seen a ton. I can't even discern a color difference when scratching where they should be with a pick...can't even catch any sort of lip with a pick

Found a good fork seal I believe, so I won't have to buy them, just yet...budget, budget and yes, budget build.

If you've already investigated and not found any, then that's conclusive. I was just pointing out that if you had expected to see asbestos gasket material, or didn't closely examine the exhaust flange, that the copper gaskets could still be there.

Ciao,

sooo, I went by the local Honda shop today...CLOSED indefinitely...say what?? I was going to get two exhaust gaskets and a fork seal. Wow, building isn't even five years old yet. I got some 6 mm ID bolts for the exhaust today...easier than dealing with the studs from Honda. Put her up on a rear 'stand' and cleaned the chain and sprocket and putzd around a bit. I think I may take the wheels off tomorrow for the new sneakers.

I placed an order today that totaled a hundred bucks for all the parts I need to this point in time to include block off plates. I should have everything by Tues next week. I still have plenty to keep me busy until then.

The wiring for the fuel sensor under the tank needs attention.

I took some pics, nothing great. The D and D pic is after about 30 seconds of polishing....

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[image: post-22672-0-80375800-1380845967.jpg]

Wish I could remember why nearly all exhaust headers use studs, but there is definitely a reason...

Ciao,

when I worked at a shop in San Diego, we replaced Honda's studs with the same thread pitched hex bolts. It is convenient to be able to hang an exhaust on the stud, but we found it easier and neater to just replace them.

That said, I got the calipers completely 're built' using the same seals etc considering the ones I needed were 'unavailable for shipping' and the Honda shop closed nearest me. The calipers themselves are considerably cleaner, the pistons look like pistons and I used caliper lube on them and they go in and out quite nicely.

The wheels are in for their sneakers and come back in tomorrow, the front axle and spacers are all prettied up. I think tomorrow I'll break into pulling the PAIR system off.

JZH

Wish I could remember why nearly all exhaust headers use studs, but there is definitely a reason...

Ciao,

My guess is that it's better to snap a stud at the point where a nut has rusted on, than to have to ezi-out a broken bolt. You can still get something onto what remains of the stud to remove it.

More progress to include;

rebuilt calipers

cleaning,

windscreen revival

PAIR removal

front end detail

new sneakers (q2's)

just waiting on parts

[image: post-22672-0-75874400-1381113878.jpg]

[image: post-22672-0-36934700-1381113899.jpg]

[image: post-22672-0-52557500-1381113913.jpg]

finally got the parts in. New exhaust gasket on no. 2, sub air cleaner, tank rubbers, brake calipers back together and brakes bled. I have an exhaust leak I believe on no 1, but IDK if I can get on the one stud to tighten it. It's so subtle that I'm not sure if it's worth messing with. I have to do the right side fork seal. If it wasn't raining and I had brand new sneakers, I'd take her for a spin. I'll post more pics here soon. I located a 90 for an absolute song, and the bike runs, so we'll see how this goes.

mcrwt644

when I worked at a shop in San Diego, we replaced Honda's studs with the same thread pitched hex bolts. It is convenient to be able to hang an exhaust on the stud, but we found it easier and neater to just replace them.

FYI:

why do we use studs at all? why do we not just use bolts with heads?

A bolt is under both tension and torsion as the components are assembled, while a stud (at least the part in the head) is under tension alone, a subtle but important difference. The torsion in the bolt has the effect of changing the pitch of the bolt thread leading to a massive concentration of forces on the first part of the thread. By eliminating the torsion a stud does not suffer distortion of the thread pitch which then give better distribution of forces within the head. The better distribution of forces allows, either a more economic design resulting in reduced weight, or the use of softer materials.

So where does the torsion go to when you use a stud (I hear you say). Yup there sure is a torsion applied to a stud as you tighten it up but this is transferred from the shoulder of the stud to a seat in the head before the threaded section enters the head so the threads in the stud see only tension.

To get the system to work efficiently:

• The thread cut the head is (usually) machined to a special (very close) tolerance.

• The machining in the head includes a seat for the shoulder of the stud to sit in.

• During assembly the studs need to be inserted into the head finger tight only so the shoulder is seated snug ready and waiting to work as intended.

If a stud unwinds during dismantling, don’t worry, but its best to use new studs rather than salvaging the old, as any old fashion "persuasion" could distort the shoulder of the stud. If the nuts are solidly seized to the stud it is a very bad idea to re-use these studs without removing the nut as the stud could act like a bolt which increases the danger of stripping the threads (in the head), even if you use the correct torque !

If you break a stud and cannot get a grip on it, try and use a stud extractor as a drill and tap is likely to ruin the original machining.

When installing the new studs, remember the short thread goes into the head and run the stud into the head until the shoulder snugs up (finger tight) against its seat.

Source.

Ciao,

I didn't go with the bolts after all. I figured why mess with it? the darn things are hard enough to get in and or out, so leave well enough alone. Bike is virtually done, just the fork seal to do and a good detailing is about all that remains.

JZH

mcrwt644

when I worked at a shop in San Diego, we replaced Honda's studs with the same thread pitched hex bolts. It is convenient to be able to hang an exhaust on the stud, but we found it easier and neater to just replace them.

FYI:

why do we use studs at all? why do we not just use bolts with heads?

A bolt is under both tension and torsion as the components are assembled, while a stud (at least the part in the head) is under tension alone, a subtle but important difference. The torsion in the bolt has the effect of changing the pitch of the bolt thread leading to a massive concentration of forces on the first part of the thread. By eliminating the torsion a stud does not suffer distortion of the thread pitch which then give better distribution of forces within the head. The better distribution of forces allows, either a more economic design resulting in reduced weight, or the use of softer materials.

So where does the torsion go to when you use a stud (I hear you say). Yup there sure is a torsion applied to a stud as you tighten it up but this is transferred from the shoulder of the stud to a seat in the head before the threaded section enters the head so the threads in the stud see only tension.

To get the system to work efficiently:

• The thread cut the head is (usually) machined to a special (very close) tolerance.

• The machining in the head includes a seat for the shoulder of the stud to sit in.

• During assembly the studs need to be inserted into the head finger tight only so the shoulder is seated snug ready and waiting to work as intended.

If a stud unwinds during dismantling, don’t worry, but its best to use new studs rather than salvaging the old, as any old fashion "persuasion" could distort the shoulder of the stud. If the nuts are solidly seized to the stud it is a very bad idea to re-use these studs without removing the nut as the stud could act like a bolt which increases the danger of stripping the threads (in the head), even if you use the correct torque !

If you break a stud and cannot get a grip on it, try and use a stud extractor as a drill and tap is likely to ruin the original machining.

When installing the new studs, remember the short thread goes into the head and run the stud into the head until the shoulder snugs up (finger tight) against its seat.

Source.

Ciao,

hello

try one of these well worth the money

http://eshop.wurth.fr/-/0965%2013%20%20900.sku/fr/FR/EUR/;pgid=hK0gYrRJ3jox6xjMInhwb_cR0000hVDttOJO;sid=1UQ0b12xhSPibwyyYoQqslK7wre14ZQKLHUSdMai?CC=

Ok, 'Butch' as she has so aptly been named is virtually done. Fork seal and side stand spring is what is left. That said, I picked up another 90 today, running, beat up for a little bit of nothing. Have her torn down to the tank only now. I'll need to move some fairings or get lucky and find some. [image: post-22672-0-30289400-1381603652.jpg]

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You'll be happy w/ your 3rd gens. you buy the 2nd one to fix up or for extra parts and cute kid. I have 2 4th gens, 1 heavily modified (VFR from hell) and 1 stock except for penske rear shock, speigler superbike bars, gold valves, braided brake lines, hh pads and corbin seat w/ backrest. love both of them.

the red vfr was just such a steal it wasn't funny, esp for a bike that was already running. If I could find a left upper for it, I could put her on the road. I have a fourth gen headlight left over that I have mounted in there already. I could probably sell the rear wheel off this bike for more than I paid for it :)

I got a mid pipe custom bent for a whopping $5, and after talking to the shop owner, got a lead on material for an exhaust hanger that I fabbed myself...Nothing fancy,but it works.

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Progress is looking good.

Don't mess around and just do both fork seals. You never know what the forks look like until you crack them open. The forks on the F2 weren't leaking, but the seals were rotted almost all the way through.

Detailed out the D and D can on the ends. Ran over the entire bike at about 800 rpms with a new 3M wool pad with Meguiar's cleaner/wax. Went over the bike again by hand with the same, then used Meguiar's Carnuba by hand on it to round it out. Still haven't been on the road yet, just up and down the street. A whopping mile on her since I got her.

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rangemaster

IF I remember correctly, the 3rd GENs are about 50 lbs. heavier.

Not quite. The biggest weight difference came from the exhaust. On the 3rd generation, the 4-into-1 manifold weighed a ton. You can swap out a 3rd generation exaust in its entirety with one from a 4th generation VFR to drop a lot of weight. ...and of course, one can always lose the stock Honda cans for something much lighter.

Remember, the 3rd generation did not come with a center stand as standard, so there's some variability in weight claims.

Nice bikes I saw a few vfr's in Winchester Va when I lived there a few years ago. Man that Eastern Salt really corroded the engine and exhaust.

Looks good, really like the exhaust on that side of the bike ! Just need a fork brace on it and it would be perfect ..