4Th Gen Electrics, So Now What?

Last year, redslut died on me.

It looked like I found the cause and corrected it

http://www.vfrdiscus...hell-part-deux/

Took her out for a few hours ride before putting her in the shed. Ran perfectly as before.

Had her in the shed for a bit over 2 months, hooked up to a charger/conditioner (Optimate, showed green light all along)

Took her out the shed, she fired right up, idling away nicely.

Gently/low rev rolled her out the back.

But as I rode down the pavemenent and revved up a bit, the engine cut out.

Checked all the fuses, it was the "10A FUEL ST IGNITION" that had failed

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Put in a fresh 10A, it failed

Put in a 20A the engine ran, cut the ignition, put in a 10A, the fuse would fail.

As the fuel pump was the last "change", I inspected the fuel pump and noted that the black wire I had (to) solder to the top of the mechanism was "loose"; it could move a bit inside the tiny blob of solder.

So took out the pump altogether and affixed the lines to run on gravity. Unplugged the red connector from the fuel pump.

so the fuel pump is now completely out of the frame

Put in a 10A fuse, turn ignition key. the fuse would fail... FARK!!!!

Put in a 20A, bike would run/idle but after revving the engine a bit, this 20A fuse fails too. 

Not putting in a 30A, might as well use a paperclip then eh?

I now recall that during my last ride the SDC Voltmeter very briefly would flash green which indicate over 15.4 volts I believe. but only briefly during the ride.

My redslut has over 50k miles; so I think "altenator"

If it is farked, would this indeed cause the fuse 10A FUEL ST IGNITION to fail 1st?

all other fuses including the 30A in front of the baterry are good.

Wiring diagrams are gooble-dee-gook to me so my fellow VFRD'ers what do you say???

What can I go next?

(apart from resoldering the black wire on the fuel pump for when the other !@#$% is fixed)

I think I will pay this place a little visit later on tonite.......

I was planning to do a lot of maintenance on my bike next week (my brother away for a week so I can use his garage space). This now looks like a no-no..

[image: drink.jpg]

Liquid Comfort.....

Have a look at the fuel pump relay.  Should be able to put an amp meter on the pump to that should tell if its drawing too much juice. Other places to check are the switch gear for shorts. You may have exposed some wire during your last repair by accident, work backwards from the place you repaired that soldier point. Or burned the insulation away with too much juice?  The Stator would not be on that fuse, the main bus fuse would blow in that case, not the stator.

Dirty on the ouside, inside has green greasy stuff

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looked up the manual

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note are loose or corroded.

The next step baffles me. I have a multimeter somewhere in the shed but have no idea what to do with it  :owned:

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The 1st one, maybe. Bl possibly the end of a blue or black wire and touch the - on the battery termial. I shoudl see voltage. but how to measure continuity on my redslut????

I think Bl is black, Bu is blue. I'll have to look at the full instructions. I think on whatever connector was mentioned before the last instruction you posted, there should be be a red and yellow wire, a black and blue wire, and a black wire. You are checking the wires on the wiring harness only. So you should have voltage between the black wire and any ground point on the bike. You should have continuity (~0 ohms) between the red and yellow wire from the fuel relay plug to the spark unit (not sure if that's one of the coils or what), and continuity between the black and blue wire from the fuel relay to the fuel pump.

I think Bl is black, Bu is blue. I'll have to look at the full instructions. I think on whatever connector was mentioned before the last instruction you posted, there should be be a red and yellow wire, a black and blue wire, and a black wire. You are checking the wires on the wiring harness only. So you should have voltage between the black wire and any ground point on the bike. You should have continuity (~0 ohms) between the red and yellow wire from the fuel relay plug to the spark unit (not sure if that's one of the coils or what), and continuity between the black and blue wire from the fuel relay to the fuel pump.

what he said  :comp13:

I think Bl is black, Bu is blue. I'll have to look at the full instructions. I think on whatever connector was mentioned before the last instruction you posted, there should be be a red and yellow wire, a black and blue wire, and a black wire. You are checking the wires on the wiring harness only. So you should have voltage between the black wire and any ground point on the bike. You should have continuity (~0 ohms) between the red and yellow wire from the fuel relay plug to the spark unit (not sure if that's one of the coils or what), and continuity between the black and blue wire from the fuel relay to the fuel pump.

what he said  :comp13:

The continuity instractions are what puzzle me.

I can and will read up on how to set my multimeter so I can measure 0 ohms.

The plug on the wiring harnass (that clicks onto the relay) will have a red/yellow wire (it started raiing agian and my bike is outside), I will touch that with one of the probes of the multimeter.

But where is this "spark unit"? and where to I touch it with the other probe?

Same for the BL/BU and fuel pump.....  the actual fuel pump has a red plug assembly. I took the pump out so there is a red plug on bike (next to a white plug for the rear lights/indicators you must loosen to be able to remove the tail bodywork....

We're getting there..... 

did you test the relay itself yet? if yes. then..

what you are testing for is "resistance" in the wire. aka that its there and not broken and getting "0.L"

(open line) like on my meter.aka  no power captain!! infinity "

 however if the wire has rubbed through in a spot and is contacting another wire.. (which i bet is the problem )

 you will have continuity.. but is bad as if flowing t something else..

 so. 1st up.

 get a few more fuses or a circuit breaker.. pull the plug on the pump it self. leave the relay in. did the fuse blow?

 if so prepare  a razor blade to slice the black wrap and hunt down rubbing wires.

the spark unit. aka the ECU / cpu/ black box /brain/ thingamajig vooddoo unit.

the red and yellow wire does indeed go from the voodoo magic box to both the relay and the coil.

the black and blue wire goes from the relay to the fuel pump only.

the black wire,, goes from the relay and goes to both the fuse-box and the engine stop switch.

Did the 1st test:

I get 12.38V; measure directly at battery terminals I get slightly higher reading 12.42V

(I had to put in a 30A fuse in place of the 10A since I ran 10 & 20'S.... didnot attempt to start the engine)

So that leaves testing continuity; I learned how to measure this (youtube wahey!!!).

The question remaining is where to measure on the "spark unit" and the "fuel pump".....

set to lowest ohm reading, ready to rock.....

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So there is nothing to test at the actual relay? (other than looking for loose or corroded terminals)

you are checking to see if you can get a reading at the end of the red yellow wire at the voodoo box PLUG. :comp13:

 if no reading or you get infinity.(OL) then its cut.(  on resistance setting)

...does not compute in my head......    

You may be deaf, I'm dumb remember?  :goofy:

The plug that goes into the relay has 3 wires:

red/yellow

black (in the middle; here I measured the voltage from)

blue

With the meter set to measure ohm (see picture)

I put the tip of the red (?) prod on the red/yellow or blue wire (either inside the plug or from "the rear" onto the metal that takes the wire)

and then what?

should the display show zero now? Or must I touch the black prod somewhere?

Man, I can already taste that rye whisky................  :beer:

here is the problem. the red and yellow wire is Y shaped. 1 goes the coil. other to the voodoo box.. the other to the pump relay.

 unplug all 3 an place the red prob on one end and black one on the  the other 2.

Night has fallen so it will be Friday at the earliest (hate it when work gets in the way but that pays the bills......  :goofy: )

The fuel pump is already removed so the red plug that is on the bike (part of the wiring harnass) still should have a blue wire.

I measured between the blue wires.

Same for red/yellow, I will have to follow/find where this plugs into a coil 

There are 4 coils

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and I should look for "number 4" (chow mein noodles), for that one aparently has the red/yellow wire running to it.

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Here's hoping it is easily accesible......

here is the problem. the red and yellow wire is Y shaped. 1 goes the coil. other to the voodoo box.. the other to the pump relay.

 unplug all 3 an place the red prob on one end and black one on the  the other 2.

+1  

Fuel  pump  signal  ...

Yeah  checking  the  fuel  pump  is  easy,  it's  making  the  fuel  pump  work,  thats   the  hard  part..   

Just  bustin  your  balls a little. 

Black wire goes to the engine stop switch. The black white wire from the engine stop switch goes to the ignition coils. The red yellow line goes from the fuel cut relay to ignition coil no 4 and the spark unit.  The black blue line goes from the fuel cut relay to the fuel pump.

The fuel pump is running. But does it run with a 10A fuse connected during testing. If the coils in the pump are damaged. (elektromagnet) then the fuel pump draws to much power and the fuse will blow. If the fuel cut relay itself is gone, the fuse will blow also.

Next saturday i am working for a few hours near Nijmegen and have to deliver some tools in Buren, so i will drive past Utrecht. So if some help needed, let me know.

If the fuseholder is labled "IGN" could it be just a short that might have developed on the wire harness(es) leading to the ignition switch? That harness gets flexed a lot when steering the bike, and I would not be surprised if there might be frayed/damaged wires in there that might be causing the short and the blown fuses......

These  boys  are  on  it  !!!

Box  it  up  and  send  it  to  us or  I  mean  to  them...  

Next saturday i am working for a few hours near Nijmegen and have to deliver some tools in Buren, so i will drive past Utrecht. So if some help needed, let me know.

The coffee and whisky will be waiting......

Will bring the bike round to the back so we have a little shelter; weather is forecated to be bad....

I will buy a bagful of 10A and 20A fuses too......

The 10A would blow upon turning the ignition key as well...

:beer:

Next saturday i am working for a few hours near Nijmegen and have to deliver some tools in Buren, so i will drive past Utrecht. So if some help needed, let me know.

The coffee and whisky will be waiting......

Will bring the bike round to the back so we have a little shelter; weather is forecated to be bad....

I will buy a bagful of 10A and 20A fuses too......

The 10A would blow upon turning the ignition key as well...

shesh.. get CIRCUIT BREAKERS!!

Next saturday i am working for a few hours near Nijmegen and have to deliver some tools in Buren, so i will drive past Utrecht. So if some help needed, let me know.

The coffee and whisky will be waiting......

Will bring the bike round to the back so we have a little shelter; weather is forecated to be bad....

I will buy a bagful of 10A and 20A fuses too......

The 10A would blow upon turning the ignition key as well...

Whisky is not a good idea, since i have to drive home afterwards. :cool:   I will take my wph with elektrical scheme's with me and some measuring tools.

Next saturday i am working for a few hours near Nijmegen and have to deliver some tools in Buren, so i will drive past Utrecht. So if some help needed, let me know.

The coffee and whisky will be waiting......

Will bring the bike round to the back so we have a little shelter; weather is forecated to be bad....

I will buy a bagful of 10A and 20A fuses too......

The 10A would blow upon turning the ignition key as well...

Whisky is not a good idea, since i have to drive home afterwards. :cool:   I will take my wph with elektrical scheme's with me and some measuring tools.

whisky is always a good idea.. you just drink a shot when you START working.. and more after you get home. :beer:

Don't  forget  ear  plugs .

:goofy:

Don't  forget  ear  plugs .

:goofy:

dont need no stinkin earplugs!!! :tongue:

Don't  forget  ear  plugs .

:goofy:

dont need no stinkin earplugs!!! :tongue:

Not  you  VFRBert  ...

Don't  forget  ear  plugs .

:goofy:

I have alway's 2 pair in my van. The Red sluts exhaust is no problem, but when Dutchy starts talking......... :goofy:

Not  you  VFRBert  ...

Don't worry, he is talkative too :biggrin:

Ssttt.. do not tell all my secrets..........  :wacko:

Not  you  VFRBert  ...

Don't worry, he is talkative too :biggrin:

:musik20:

Well, with Bert's help we established that the relay and pump didnot appear to be the problem.

That there had to be a wire somewhere chafed/shorting.

But as we started to follow the wires, Bert noticed that the tip of my middle finger was at an odd angle...

Now I recall earlier bending it but did not look..... no pain.

So the "follow the wire" became a trip to the hospital where they told me the tendon had ripped...

So for the next 6 (yes six) weeks.........

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Back home, knowing what to look for I checked the wiring, rerouting a few that were ok but were chafing/added a bit of tape.

At the front right, the main harness has a branch that leads to a coil where it sits on TOP of the loom.

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On my bike, squeezed under the loom was another "branch"  and I could it see chafed the top part of the frame.

Impossible to see between cable and frame, but I put a bit of cardboard between cable and frame.

No more 10A fuse popping!

Not wanting to take everything apart, I wrapped the cable with insulation tape and put duct tape on the offending frame section.

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Hooked up the fuel pump and everything ran fine.

Darkness feel so more tomorrow.

Drilled a hole in the subframe's side plate as to fit a proper bolt.



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I  know  what  happen  he  now  has  a  sever  oil  leak  .   Some  wheres  around  the  rear  valve  cover .

:cheerleader:   :cheerleader:   :cheerleader:    7000  post     :cheerleader:   :cheerleader:   :cheerleader:    Thanks  Dutchy  !!!

My pleasure!!!!!