I keep reading threads on here stating the VFR800F is only 96bhp. Honda quote 77.9KW= 104.5 bhp at 10,250 rpm
just sayin
105Bhp
33 posts Started 22 Jul 2014 Last recovered post 12 Aug 2014 Wayback Machine snapshot 12 Sep 2017
motor cyclist says 94.3 hp @ 10k RPM and 52.3 @ 8400RPM lol.
Rear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others.
cugRear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others.
yup +1
cugRear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others.
Exactly..... And one guy says this & the other says that...... There can be % error from one dyno to the next. Real comparisons need to be on the same dyno.
mello dudecugRear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others.
Exactly..... And one guy says this & the other says that...... There can be % error from one dyno to the next. Real comparisons need to be on the same dyno.
yup. my local dealer has a dyno that I put my 86 on that made 90hp... I am hoping that when they get a new VFR they will be willing to do it............ but probably not lol
thor294mello dudecugRear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others.
Exactly..... And one guy says this & the other says that...... There can be % error from one dyno to the next. Real comparisons need to be on the same dyno.
yup. my local dealer has a dyno that I put my 86 on that made 90hp... I am hoping that when they get a new VFR they will be willing to do it............ but probably not lol
IMHO if you expect your dealer to put a brand new not run in bike on a dyno and then sell it to someone as a new bike you are likely to be disappointed.....
Why not? They are dyno'd at the factory before they are sent off to the dealer.
Edited July 23, 2014 by Epyon007Yep, every new bike Ive seen on the floor, you can tell by the worn rear tire its been on a dyno? LOL!!!
I'm sure the motor itself is ran for QA before installed in the bike, but the bike actually being dyno'd , never heard of such.
Edited July 23, 2014 by spud786thor294mello dudecugRear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others.
Exactly..... And one guy says this & the other says that...... There can be % error from one dyno to the next. Real comparisons need to be on the same dyno.
yup. my local dealer has a dyno that I put my 86 on that made 90hp... I am hoping that when they get a new VFR they will be willing to do it............ but probably not lol
amazing 1986 90hp---- only 10 more hp and 13k for the new one- brain dead
theelfamazing 1986 90hp---- only 10 more hp and 13k for the new one- brain dead
:beatdeadhorse:
theelfthor294amazing 1986 90hp---- only 10 more hp and 13k for the new one- brain deadmello dudeyup. my local dealer has a dyno that I put my 86 on that made 90hp... I am hoping that when they get a new VFR they will be willing to do it............ but probably not lolcugExactly..... And one guy says this & the other says that...... There can be % error from one dyno to the next. Real comparisons need to be on the same dyno.Rear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others.
When the CBR1000F came out in 1988, it was the fastest production bike ever built.
It had 130HP, and was the first production bike to break 100HP at the rear wheel.
I bought one and was blown away at how fast it was.
My 2001 VFR feels faster up to 180kh. I took the CBR to 255kh and it had more in reserve.
I've never had the VFR over 200kh and probably never will unless I do track days.
There is power, and there is power
I think the VFR's power is more usable in the real world.
According to the french magazine Moto Station which dyno'd the VFR800F, BMW F 800 GT, and Kawasaki Z1000 SX, here are the results.
Power and torque readings to the crankshaft (CE95 / 1 standard):
BMW F 800 GT (blue curves): 97 hp at 8193 rev / min, 9.5 kgm at 5728 rev / min Honda VFR 800 F (green curves): 113 hp at 10,589 rev / min, 8.2 mkg at 8761 r / min
Power and torque returned to the wheel:
BMW F 800 GT (blue curves): 89 hp at 8193 rev / min, 8.8 kgm at 5728 rev / min Honda VFR 800 F (green curves): 103 hp at 10,589 rev / min, 7.6 mkg at 8761 r / min
[image: Honda_VFR_800_F_BMW_F_800_GT_courbes.jpg]
Power and torque readings to the crankshaft (CE95 / 1 standard):
Honda VFR 800 F (green curves): 113 hp at 10,589 rev / min, 8.2 kgm at 8761 rev / min Kawasaki Z 1000 SX (red curves): 116 hp at 9,474 rev / min, 10.2 mkg at 7181 r / min
Power and torque returned to the wheel:
Honda VFR 800 F (green curves): 103 hp at 10,589 rev / min, 7.6 kgm at 8761 rev / min Kawasaki Z 1000 SX (red curves): 106 hp at 9,474 rev / min, 9.3 mkg at 7181 r / min
[image: Honda_VFR_800_F_Kawasaki_Z_1000_SX_courb]
Quite a big difference from Kawasaki's claim of ....
Max power 140 bhp Max torque 82 ft-lb Edited July 25, 2014 by SHvarI wonder if they had the Kwak running on full power with traction control set to off?? T/C on my versys 1000 (3 modes) did make the bike more sluggish depending on which mode you were in
SHvarAccording to the french magazine Moto Station
Power and torque readings to the crankshaft (CE95 / 1 standard):
Honda VFR 800 F (green curves): 113 hp at 10,589 rev / min, 8.2 kgm at 8761 rev / min Kawasaki Z 1000 SX (red curves): 116 hp at 9,474 rev / min, 10.2 mkg at 7181 r / min
Power and torque returned to the wheel:
Honda VFR 800 F (green curves): 103 hp at 10,589 rev / min, 7.6 kgm at 8761 rev / min Kawasaki Z 1000 SX (red curves): 106 hp at 9,474 rev / min, 9.3 mkg at 7181 r / min
[image: Honda_VFR_800_F_Kawasaki_Z_1000_SX_courb]
Quite a big difference from Kawasaki's claim of ....
Max power 140 bhp Max torque 82 ft-lb
Remember that in France all bikes are capped at an actual rear wheel 100ps limit (with fudge factor) so the the Z1000SX is detuned for sale in that market.
I recently read an article about how so many bikes are exaggerated in their HP output, they gave a huge list by manufacturers and years, amazing how shockingly close so many bikes actually performed at the rear wheel when tested on the same dyno regardless of what model and engine from liter bikes, to sport touring bikes, to 600s, regardless of their claimed power outputs.
I have gone in the past to a local dyno shootout a few times and was shocked by how certain bikes actually performed, certain models side by side how greatly 2 almost identical bikes varied so much. I saw an example of 2 GSXR 750s, Both owned by good friends who ride regularly together, both switch bikes regularly and could not tell a difference in the performance of them, both identical mods, both bought in the same dealership around the same time. One bike made 114 hp, one made 77 hp.
I saw some of what they mentioned in that article, I saw 1000 cc V-twins, 750cc in line 4s,1000 cc inline 4s, and 2 VFR800s all very close (give or take a few HP) or right round the 100 hp mark consistently.
One shootout years back on the list I noticed there were alot of GSXR 600s, probably just shy of half of the 600s present, the HP figures ranged among that category from 65-98 hp. Its funny so many comments among people there with yamahas, suzukis, ducatis, etc etc about Hondas, I had the only CBR600 there and got 3rd in the 600 class that day (BMC air filter, rejetted, and Micron slip on, 94.5 hp), one modified R6 (with 95.5 hp) and one ZX-6R with 98 hp.
SHvarI recently read an article about how so many bikes are exaggerated in their HP output, they gave a huge list by manufacturers and years, amazing how shockingly close so many bikes actually performed at the rear wheel when tested on the same dyno regardless of what model and engine from liter bikes, to sport touring bikes, to 600s, regardless of their claimed power outputs.
Frankly that seems absurd. Link to article please.
Ill try to find it again, it was one of those I found while searching for something else.
That article seemed to be using factory pros dyno numbers (their website has very similar results) which read somewhat lower to noticeably lower than dynojets. Of course there are certain bikes that obviously read much higher on the list, but the amount of bikes regardless of engine size, etc and cycle model that all made similar HP readings is pretty amazing (around the 100 HP mark, give or take (90-109). Made me think about the response here concerning the french available bikes being limited in output when I read it.
German bike magazine Motorrad
Measurenent at crank on a Dynojet
[image: post-8974-0-72075400-1406364066.jpg]
Here's the thing.... Almost all modern sport bikes have ram air induction, and most will have individual mapping by gear. So first gear will not have much compensation, but 4th (where a dyno pull is made) will have a decent amount of fueling/ignition compensation for the added ram air. This is why dyno tuning and print out, may not always correct. (Among many other factors). Road tuning with map by gear is the way to go.
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Concerning the result of Moto Station, please be aware that in France there is the limitation of 100 hp.
This is the reason why the Z1000SX hax only 116 hjp at hshaft, quite similar to VFR 800.
Even the VFR 1200 has only 100 hp (engine cut-off at about 7000 rpm).
Club Racer has already explained this point.
CandyRedRC46Here's the thing.... Almost all modern sport bikes have ram air induction, and most will have individual mapping by gear. So first gear will not have much compensation, but 4th (where a dyno pull is made) will have a decent amount of fueling/ignition compensation for the added ram air. This is why dyno tuning and print out, may not always correct. (Among many other factors). Road tuning with map by gear is the way to go.
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Most modern bikes don't. VFR's don't, neither do Z1000sx/Ninja 1000's. Most modern bikes do however have an air box pressure sensor & O2 sensors, so the idea that the fuelling on the dyno is somewhat off the mark is wrong. Kevin Cameron had some figures in one of his books that showed the ram air was a minor gain ( but significant in a race track environment where split seconds matter) at very high speeds. On a road bike however…...
Read what you quoted. "Most modern SPORT bikes" and by "most" I mean about 99% of them.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YZF-R6[image: va2a8aqy.jpg]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YZF-R1[image: equtuzu9.jpg]
Please go on about the negligible affects of ram air....
Edited July 27, 2014 by CandyRedRC46CandyRedRC46Read what you quoted. "Most modern SPORT bikes" and by "most" I mean about 99% of them.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YZF-R6[image: va2a8aqy.jpg]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YZF-R1[image: equtuzu9.jpg]
Please go on about the negligible affects of ram air....
That is two bikes, hardly most. Ironic it is that on the charts you supplied a ram air assisted power figures are not listed from the 08 models onwards for either bike. Did they remove ram air from the later models or just the claims for its effectiveness? Notice that for the ram air assisted power figures no air velocity / road speed analogue figure at which the power measures were taken - something essential to specify if you are claiming a power boost from ram air induction.
Irony can also be found in your choice of a manufactures "at the brochure" power figures in an attempt to support the validity of ram air power gains in a thread discussing the difference between the 8th Gens brochure power & what testers are finding in the rear world on a dyno.
Fortunately the days of "colourful" ram air claims are over thank you EC homologation legislation, most manufactures now use the term "cold air induction" & have left the hyperbole in the cupboard.
But my salient point remains. Most modern bikes are fitted with air box pressure sensors & oxygen sensors, amongst many others. So if there is a discrepancy between the road speed on the dyno drum & the air speed from the cooling fan pointed at the bike during the dyno run it will be of no consequence as the engine management system will accommodate it & continue to fuel it as they intended.
Really?? Really??
What is not computing with you here?
The cbr600/1000
The R6/R1
The gsxr600/750/1000
The zx6r/zx10r
The aprillia rsv4
The BMW s1000rr
The Ducati 1199
That is basically every sport bike available at the moment. They all come factory fitted with ram air and the all benefit greatly from it. The only real sport bike that I can think of that does not is Eric buells new bike and I'm sure there is some specific engineering reason behind it. I can't tell if you are just trolling or you are dense.
Yes a lot of modern motorcycles have manifold absolute pressure sensors and yes some even come with o2 sensors as well, but not all motorcycles are capable of using o2 sensors while under load, (as in our Vfr which only interprets the o2 signal while under light throttle and cruising scenarios). And not all map sensors are going to be capable of reading more than one bar of air pressure.
If the factory engine management system was capable of delivering an ideal air fuel mixture and spark advance at all engine and road speeds the tuning industry would not exist and dynos would become obsolete.
But in reality the factory engine management system is not capable of doing this as it must be more concerned with passing emissions.
Edited July 27, 2014 by CandyRedRC46Both the EBR1190 and the naked version have ram air also.
Their naked version the Typhoon you can actually see the ram air intake behind the steering head.
[image: EBR-1190-Typhon.jpg]
Here is the 1190 Rx with ram air in front.
[image: 2014-Erik-Buell-Racing-1190RX-02.jpg]
Okay sorry. I stand corrected. Lol I can not think of any sport bike with out ram air. It would be ridiculous to not take advantage of that extra 6-8 hp...
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CandyRedRC46Really?? Really??
What is not computing with you here?
The cbr600/1000
The R6/R1
The gsxr600/750/1000
The zx6r/zx10r
The aprillia rsv4
The BMW s1000rr
The Ducati 1199
That is basically every sport bike available at the moment. They all come factory fitted with ram air and the all benefit greatly from it. The only real sport bike that I can think of that does not is Eric buells new bike and I'm sure there is some specific engineering reason behind it. I can't tell if you are just trolling or you are dense.
I'm the dense one? Oh come on.
None, except for the Kawasaki 2014 636cc ZX6R, of the bikes you have listed have claims made by the manufactures for ram air assisted power figures. I also looked up bikes like the Triumph Daytona 675 which has a prominent air inlet in the nose & about which a big play was made about the integration of the cold air intake with the headstock. Triumph do not make any claims of ram air assisted power figures for the Daytona. The ZX6R claim is for 5 hp gain at max revs, with no reference to air velocity equivalence or at what air box pressure (if any!) That unsupported power gain claim is in the order of 3.5%"calculated" :rolleyes: at the crank.
It would be ridiculous to not take advantage of that extra 6-8 hp...
How fast do you think you have to be going for ram air to have any effect? This quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram-air_intake. " At low speeds (subsonic speeds) increases in static pressure are however limited to a few percent." If, taking Kawasakis claims on face value for a minute, ram air is worth a 3.5% power gain @ V-Max. Being mindful that the drop in air pressure is exponential as speeds drop how much of that small percentage is retained at sporting street speeds? Next time you powering from corner to corner on your local twisties just remember ram air has more effect as a tool for advertising copy than as a street performance enhancement.
Thats why they redesign the ram air inlet and make it very noticeable when they update the model every few years. Technically there is no way to measure the actual effect on total HP output aside from comparing the differences on certain race tracks under the right conditions, with the right pilot on board.
DFH, your right, over 5 slight updates in several years with the same race replica model, and minor other changes, how many would sell if they didnt advertise an increase in power because of the new schnozz on the front? Not near as many, in fact the bikes fans would be complaining on forums that the company is not listening to them and not doing more to attract them to upgrade to the newest model, kinda like some VFR800 fans, haha.
in the end... the VFR needs more power :)
Whatever the actual value, it must be sufficient for all the VFR owners to have said "that's the bike for me" (Yes, there's always someone going to bolt on some nitrous or whatever, so it's a generalisation).
It feels like more than enough for me. I'm trading in an SV650S with 65bhp (or whatever) and part of the fun of the Suzuki's extending the engine all the time to make progress and still be at sensible speeds. Personally I like thrashing an engine and on the public roads anything significantly over 100bhp, you simply can't without being a menace to yourself and everyone else. The new VFR800 can be ragged in 2nd and 3rd gears and you're not asking for a term in jail like some of the knocking-on-for 200bhp sports bikes that do more than the speed limit in 1st.
I just went on a week-long ride with my brother. I had to work my 6th Gen's gearbox pretty hard to keep up with his Tuono through the corners. His Aprilia just walked away from me through the apexes and out of the corners unless I paid very close attention to my RPMs. But that's what the transmission is for, I guess. Still, I wish my VFR had about 20 percent more grunt.
spud786Yep, every new bike Ive seen on the floor, you can tell by the worn rear tire its been on a dyno? LOL!!!
I'm sure the motor itself is ran for QA before installed in the bike, but the bike actually being dyno'd , never heard of such.
Yeah the last time I had a vehicle dyno'd I needed new tires after I was done :facepalm:. I have seen it in some films about product but those were about exotic sports cars. So maybe a more average consumer oriented product they don't. It sure seems like a good idea to me though.
Edited August 12, 2014 by Epyon007 End of thread · 33 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 12 Sep 2017