Interested in some feedback on whether a '97 VFR with 26k km's would make a good (recreational, not racing) track bike. I have a 6th gen and I've been looking to spend around $2,500 for a used CBR or R6 to use 2 or 3 times a year for track days.
I came across an ad for a very clean 4th gen VFR and thought that maybe I'd benefit more from using a bike on the track that is closer to what I ride on the street. I'm 50, and the purpose of my track days will be to improve my riding skills while having an opportunity in a safer environment to push the limits. I've take a few racer-development courses already.
CBR's and R6's are pretty close to track ready and parts are plentiful. Not sure about the durability of a 4th gen VFR in this regard.
I don't think you can go wrong with a 600; it's going to be far superior on track as well. Besides, a clean 4th Gen is harder and harder to find these days and I think it would be better served as someone's faithful sport tourer ;)
You can't spit without hitting a 600 these days, they're the better track toy
Go with a CBR or something. Plenty of great finds on the WERA classifieds. For that price, by the time you do some bodywork and suspension on the VFR, you would have had something ready to go for much less.
A friend used his rc24 a few years back on the track for his racing license, on the Zandvoort circuit in the Netherlands. Most other participants used bikes like fireblade's. He had the fourth time all over that day. Maybe aftermarket parts are easier to find in Europe, but for the intended use a not so good looking but complete rc36 could work very good. A scratched fairing is no problem, if engine suspension and brakes are good. Steel belted brake lines and good brakepads are enough. Even my old rc24 with 276 mm fixed disks has enough stopping power, to lift the back of the bike while driving with a passenger. So the 296 mm floating disks should work even better.
Or buy a vfr with damaged fairing for a few bucks and put a cheap racing fairing on it. And its fun to have a track bike different from all the other bike's
I traded a 4th gen for a cbr900, no comparison. The cbr is featherweight by comparison. Also handles better and power is much better. The old 919 engine is bulletproof and torquey to boot.
Go for it, but not with a good bike, buy a bike with a good engine, the rest can be sorted and a cheap race fairing will do. Strip off all the street stuff, like lights etc & fit a light weight battery. As 4th gen is carded, you could go total loss & ditch the genny, which will improve engine response ! The bike will feel closer to your 6th gen & thus instill more confidence in the abilities of the 6th gen.
A well setup VFR will toast most 600 on a track or road. Just make sure you ft the best tyres you can. If you make some basic mods to get the breathing sorted, they will make over 100bhp at the rear wheel. Which when used to its full with the additional torque, will feel so much better when you surprise 600 riders :) Plus you will ahve the coolest sounding bike on the track :)
Newer 600 make better numbers, but they are not very fexible & if you end up in the wrong gear anywhere, they lose drive very badly. The VFR being a very flexible unit with a flat torque curve, just pulls in all gears. It would be interesting to see a back to back or side by side gear by gear run between a VFR & a 600.
If you are still set on a 4th gen as a track bike, send me a PM. I may have something for you, but with a caveat. Cleveland is only 3 hrs from toronto (all canadians speed on the QEW, right?) :wink:
douglasthcook has been on Assen, Spa and the Nurburgring with his (granted) modified 4th gen.
Come on! stand out from the crowd with their stinky i-4's!!!! :goofy:
As for riding in the rain, you donot need specialised rain tires.
You know how to ride with the bow wave slushing over yer boots!!!
Dutchy - 2 years later and my gloves are still wet!
If you are still set on a 4th gen as a track bike, send me a PM. I may have something for you, but with a caveat. Cleveland is only 3 hrs from toronto (all canadians speed on the QEW, right?) :wink:
This decision seems to be one about the head (600) vs the heart (vfr).
Ultimately it may be much more costly (reliability issues, spare parts, etc) to go the Vfr route. I think the video just closed the deal. That was awesome.
Thanks!
I've just finished....(insert almost)...pulling my VFR down to nothing. What's left of it is quite light, and there's a heap of mods you could do to get yours sorted for track use. I reckon a VFR would be awesome as a track bike. Might want to do some work on the suspension, though. In saying that, though. A 600 would set you back a bag of beans, and it wouldn't matter if you killed it. If I were trying to push my limits, i'd much prefer to do it on something disposable. It all depends on the milk you spill, as to how much you can cry over it.
If the 4th gen is inexpensive, I like your logic of riding something similar to what you ride on the street, I'd go w/ the 4th gen. Make sure you take the feelers off the pegs, remove pass. pegs, headlight, turn signals, good plastic fairing pieces( replace w/ scratched up ebay or classified pieces), if you have a rear stand, than you can ditch the center stand , put some hh pads on it,ss brake lines, better shock and gold valves and good tires. Have fun w/ whichever one you decide on., but a 4th gen can be ridden quite fast on the track
Bike is stock. Was off the road for 3 years prior to this past summer. Current owner rides a Harley. Bought the bike from a friend, got it back on the road but says it's too fast for him.
Bike is stock. Was off the road for 3 years prior to this past summer. Current owner rides a Harley. Bought the bike from a friend, got it back on the road but says it's too fast for him.
---David
Lol at least he knows his limitations.
My project bike was purchased from a member here. He hasn't posted recently. Probably having too much fun with his VFR400 track bike. It's a 97 with a CBR900 front. It had the matching 900 swinger on it, but I went back to the stock swinger for ease of exhaust. Low mileage engine in a rolling chassis with a few boxes of necessary parts. Bought another high mileage 94 to ride while my 98 was down for repairs, and to use as an additional donor bike.
Had a lot of other stuff on the plate this year, but after riding the legal 4th gen around this past summer I'm looking forward to getting a 4th gen on the track next year.
Here's my view on it now that I've gone through buying a track bike for a couple track days a year. I bought a track-prepped Honda F2 for $400. It was sitting in a junk yard, but had a lot of goodies on it, like a Fox shock, F3 front and rear, track bodywork, steering damper, .ect. It took me most of the winter, spring, and summer to get it sorted, since it was just one issue after the other. I've still haven't done the track day (once due to bike electrical issue, twice due to life issues). So sorting out a wreck is going to be time consuming.
After all the work I did, for a couple hundred more from what I had put into it (over $1k, including tires, chain, sprockets), I could have bought almost what I had rebuilt, but ready to go with better rearsets and bodywork.
Since you have a 6th gen, I would be more hesitant to take it on the track strictly due to the side mount radiators. I know many people on here have taken their 6th gen to the track without issue, but something to think about.
To me the track isn't about racing, unless you are racing, it's to have a place to ride with less obstacles, distractions, while on surface tailored to motor vehicles so you can improve your skills. What you ride shouldn't be as important as to how you ride, choosing the right lines, braking points, trail braking or what ever other skill you want to improve or practice. So if the bike you ride on the track is similar or identical to the one you ride off the street, even better I say!
The only real issue that one should really be concerned with is repairing a downed vehicle, it can sometimes be a bit harder to repair/replace some things on older bikes, but whether you're on the street or on the track, an accident can happen so I don't see the track as a special consideration as to choosing a particular vehicle, just be cognizant of what you might have to spend to repair your bike if you do go down.
That's my take on on it. Take it from someone who bought a 5 Gen to eventually take to the track.
Yeah - it would be a shame to thrash such a nice looking 4th gen at the track. A suggested previously, at least swap out the plastic for some already thrashed pieces and save it - it's getting pretty rare.
To me the track isn't about racing, unless you are racing, it's to have a place to ride with less obstacles, distractions, while on surface tailored to motor vehicles so you can improve your skills. What you ride shouldn't be as important as to how you ride, choosing the right lines, braking points, trail braking or what ever other skill you want to improve or practice. So if the bike you ride on the track is similar or identical to the one you ride off the street, even better I say!
The only real issue that one should really be concerned with is repairing a downed vehicle, it can sometimes be a bit harder to repair/replace some things on older bikes, but whether you're on the street or on the track, an accident can happen so I don't see the track as a special consideration as to choosing a particular vehicle, just be cognizant of what you might have to spend to repair your bike if you do go down.
That's my take on on it. Take it from someone who bought a 5 Gen to eventually take to the track.
Cheers!
BTW, Merry Christmas everyone!
I agree especially if your only talking about running a few track days a year! It sounds like gaining Street skills is your main goal and like mentioned knowing what your daily ride is capable of is priceless.
I suggest you take that $2500 budget and put good suspension on your VFR and get a set of used or Chinese bodywork to install on your bike for the occasional track day.
Not only will you gain Skills you will learn what your 6th gen is capable of and it will be a safer bike to ride every day! :beer:
Now if you get hooked and end up running a bunch of track days each year like I did then I would suggest buying a nice fully tracked prepped 600 (CBR F2/F3/F4i or RR or R6 or Gsxr) and ride the piss out of it! :wink: I did over 35 A-group track days on an 2002 F4i and it was bullet proof.
Yeah - it would be a shame to thrash such a nice looking 4th gen at the track. A suggested previously, at least swap out the plastic for some already thrashed pieces and save it - it's getting pretty rare.
+1 the bodywork on my 4th gen will be removed, and replaced with cheap aftermarket parts before it goes on the track. It's not pristine, but it would be a shame to destroy it.
"I suggest you take that $2500 budget and put good suspension on your VFR and get a set of used or Chinese bodywork to install on your bike for the occasional track day."
That's an interesting thought. It's just that I've been so careful with keeping my 6th gen in top condition that I'd be afraid of wrecking it if I went down. I'd rather walk away from my investment in another bike than fix the damage on my main ride. That's why I'm so intrigued with the notion of having another VFR for use on the track.
So many ways to go with this question. My take is that you track anything that you can fully except crashing and stay within the expendable income range. That can mean such different things to different people. If your 4th gen is near and dear and you would hate to "alter" it, do not track it. Cbr600's or R6's are the ticket to ride the balls off and put away wet. Dime a dozen and parts galore. I would say 5 times a year is the braking point that you get something track dedicated. Under 5 a road bike will do. I decided to spent a little money and have the dedicated track bike. Always ready to do the track day when I want and can. Very nice luxery.
So many ways to go with this question. My take is that you track anything that you can fully except crashing and stay within the expendable income range. That can mean such different things to different people. If your 4th gen is near and dear and you would hate to "alter" it, do not track it. Cbr600's or R6's are the ticket to ride the balls off and put away wet. Dime a dozen and parts galore. I would say 5 times a year is the braking point that you get something track dedicated. Under 5 a road bike will do. I decided to spent a little money and have the dedicated track bike. Always ready to do the track day when I want and can. Very nice luxery.
After reading all the informative responses to my post, I think this is the most rationale approach; for me anyway.
'sorry' has negative connotations when used in conversation, especially during a sale, or in this case a very important interwebz disagreement. 'i apologize' does not brood negativity, and should be used in sensitive exchanges.
Also, there are so many other good track bikes. Sv650, aprilia milles, any 600, rc51. Really, you can get any bike, any size for 2500. I will also agree, that while the 6th gen can boogie the knee down, I would much rather take another bike if going tracking.
Hell you can pick up a 6th gen for the same or less money especially if you bought a dropped one! :fing02:
Sorry, but tracking a CBR or a R6 is very different from a VFR. All fun but different.
Sorry about what? What is your point? :unsure:
I just think that the 600's are are better choice. Lighter and quicker. Sorry was for the disagreement of the 6th gen mention.
I couldn't agree more that any decent Sport bike would make for a better & cheaper track tool, but I was just responding to the OP(David's) comments:
That's an interesting thought. It's just that I've been so careful with keeping my 6th gen in top condition that I'd be afraid of wrecking it if I went down. I'd rather walk away from my investment in another bike than fix the damage on my main ride. That's why I'm so intrigued with the notion of having another VFR for use on the track.
---David
In a earlier post I suggested the following:
Now if you get hooked and end up running a bunch of track days each year like I did then I would suggest buying a nice fully tracked prepped 600 (CBR F2/F3/F4i or RR or R6 or Gsxr) and ride the piss out of it! :wink: I did over 35 A-group track days on an 2002 F4i and it was bullet proof.
This is why I'm asking what you were sorry for related to my comments!
Hell you can pick up a 6th gen for the same or less money especially if you bought a dropped one! :fing02:
Sorry, but tracking a CBR or a R6 is very different from a VFR. All fun but different.
Sorry about what? What is your point? :unsure:
I just think that the 600's are are better choice. Lighter and quicker. Sorry was for the disagreement of the 6th gen mention.
I couldn't agree more that any decent Sport bike would make for a better & cheaper track tool, but I was just responding to the OP(David's) comments:
That's an interesting thought. It's just that I've been so careful with keeping my 6th gen in top condition that I'd be afraid of wrecking it if I went down. I'd rather walk away from my investment in another bike than fix the damage on my main ride. That's why I'm so intrigued with the notion of having another VFR for use on the track.
---David
In a earlier post I suggested the following:
Now if you get hooked and end up running a bunch of track days each year like I did then I would suggest buying a nice fully tracked prepped 600 (CBR F2/F3/F4i or RR or R6 or Gsxr) and ride the piss out of it! :wink: I did over 35 A-group track days on an 2002 F4i and it was bullet proof.
This is why I'm asking what you were sorry for related to my comments!
No worries! :beer:
BR
:beer: Key point is, no matter what, get to the track.
[/quote]
:beer: Key point is, no matter what, get to the track.
[/quote]
You got that right. My beautiful and thoughtful wife bought me a track day for Christmas. Never was the saying "it's the thought that counts" more true!
I'm making the rationale decision and going 600 route. I need to keep costs I'm check.
As spring approaches I expect that used bike inventory will increase. For my budget, based on what I see out there, I'm looking at a 1997 - 2003 era bike. I'd prefer something with FI, but if the bike's in great condition I'd go carbureted. It seems that you can't go wrong with any of the 600's, but from what I've read, the ergos on the CBR's of that period were a little more relaxed than the others, and that's important to me (I've heard the same about the Kawi's of that period as well). I'll need to buy local in order to have the bike checked out by someone more qualified than me.
Thanks guys.
I highly recommend a 2002-2003 CBR954... it's fuel injected and has a bit more punch than her little sister the CBR929... old enough to come cheap and young enough to stilll have parts available and plenty of second hand stuff to nab cheap on "flea markets". I rode one at the Motorland MotoGP track at Aragon here in Spain and had a blast!! Couldn't quite keep up with my mates' '05 CBR1000 and '04 GSXR1000RR but was way, way more suited to the racetrack than my chubby sluggish (by comparison) 6th gen VFR800... night and day in the difference department. I've had my 6th gen on the track umpteen times and really pushed it to it's very limits and where it maxed out is where the 954 was just getting started.
To OP: Check out this Performance Bike (UK mag) article from 1997 where the editors enter a 4th gen VFR in an endurance race. Mostly stock but it manages a very respectacle finish despite not being the fastest & lightest.
Few years ago now I tracked a gen4 & honestly was way more fun to ride than the CBR1000RR I upgraded too. I was a track day junky for a few years but the best fun was the gen4 because riding it to the limit was rewarding, I never had ambitions to be a racer & yes the CBR1000RR was a buzz but the gen4 was better FUN.
The gen4 I just installed a gen6 shock with a shim so the rear was raised to the max, gen6 forks & removed lights, centre stand, side stand.
This is bad quality video of a VFR trackday I organized & the camera bike is a GSXR1000, I'm the gen4 rider he follows with white shoulders on my leathers.
![[image: 01313_1EH4QI1RDOd_600x450.jpg]](http://images.craigslist.org/01313_1EH4QI1RDOd_600x450.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: double1_zps9fc68242.jpg]](http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/double1_zps9fc68242.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: 5ef80c3256c46f3385fe1f7a8b925a57.jpg]](http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/26/5ef80c3256c46f3385fe1f7a8b925a57.jpg){kind=link}