Stucks At Around 6K

It seems that my baby don't want to go above 6k rpm. I've changed last year the clutch plates (friction and steel) and the springs also. New motor oil with that. I didn't have a chance to ride it last year so I couldn't try it out but it seems that the problem is still existing.

It runs really good, Until 6k the it goes up fast and easy but after that it stucks, and really slowly or not going above. The carbs has been syncronized last year also.

What do you think where should I start searching for the problem solving?

I've tried the secondary air box ( small one that's connected to the carbs) filter and if the air can't go through there. It works OK.

Maybe my fuel pump is not working properly, and it don't provide enough fuel for the higher rpms?

It seems that my baby don't want to go above 6k rpm. I've changed last year the clutch plates (friction and steel) and the springs also. New motor oil with that. I didn't have a chance to ride it last year so I couldn't try it out but it seems that the problem is still existing.

It runs really good, Until 6k the it goes up fast and easy but after that it stucks, and really slowly or not going above. The carbs has been syncronized last year also.

What do you think where should I start searching for the problem solving?

I've tried the secondary air box ( small one that's connected to the carbs) filter and if the air can't go through there. It works OK.

Maybe my fuel pump is not working properly, and it don't provide enough fuel for the higher rpms?

Szervusz Occse (from me & my Hungarian wife),

I would check the fuel filter first. Then check that you do get the specified volume of fuel from the pump - the amount per 6 seconds of pumping should be 90 cc. I'll try to attach the Service Manual page.

[image: Fuel%20Pump%20TS_zps81r587er.jpg]

What else was done to the carbs last year? You should check the slides to see that they all fall slowly and at about the same speed relative to each other after holding them up with your finger. A torn or unseated diaphragm can also cause your symptoms.

Cheers,

Glenn

The above is the 100% accurate way.

What you could also do is by-pass the pump and let gravity do the work (do fill up your tank)

close the fuel petccock and let the engine run a little, as to not have the pump/lines completely full.

Stop engine

disconnect the feule pump eletrics from the harnass (either a red or black plug)

disconnect -outgoing fuel line from the filter

Is the filter fitted the right way? the is an arrow on it that show the flow

disconnect the outgoing fule line from the pump and connet it to the fuel filter.

Remove the pump, open the fuel petconck and go for a ride.

Tell us if there is a difference

while you have the pump off, carefully remove the cap on top and inspect the contact points

http://www.vfrdiscus...-deux/?p=923040

Yep fuel filter .

Roll On  ..

Couldn't try that yet, but if the pump can't pump the required quantity of fuel, can that be adjusted or  I have to buy an other pump?

Well, we will cross that bridge when we get there...

1st check if the pump is the culprit here.............

If I remember correctly  thats  the year that   the fuel  pump  gets a signal  from one the coil packs to fire the relay that  fires  the  fuel pump . 

Roll On  ..

I found when my fuel pump failed, I could easily run it on gravity feed (My tank was near full) to get home - so it's good advice to bypass the pump first to see if it's this and if not go onto other possibilities.

I had a similar problem of the bike not going above around 6,000 rpm after rebuilding my carbs. Turned out one of the diaphragms wasn't seated properly & leaking air, so you may want to try taking off the airbox and making sure they're all fitted properly, especially if you had the carb tops off in recent past.

I found when my fuel pump failed, I could easily run it on gravity feed (My tank was near full) to get home - so it's good advice to bypass the pump first to see if it's this and if not go onto other possibilities.

I had a similar problem of the bike not going above around 6,000 rpm after rebuilding my carbs. Turned out one of the diaphragms wasn't seated properly & leaking air, so you may want to try taking off the airbox and making sure they're all fitted properly, especially if you had the carb tops off in recent past.

The carbs hase been adjusted last year, and the problem was also already existing before that. I had to change the pump electronic last year because that was damaged. 

I will check whether the pump works well, and after that take a look for some air leakage.

Is that has to run well with gravity feed also?

Yes, gravity will work fine 

Yes, gravity will work fine 

Hey Dudes,

It seems that the pump works like hell, it blow so much lifegiving liquid that I could water my garden with this pump.

Here's some pics.

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

I hear some suck-voice if I pull the throttle, but that's because of my K&N air filter.

The diaphragms were OK when the guy was adjusting the carbs. Also the same was the situation before he diassembled them. 

Yes, gravity will work fine 

Hey Dudes,

It seems that the pump works like hell, it blow so much lifegiving liquid that I could water my garden with this pump.

Here's some pics.

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

I hear some suck-voice if I pull the throttle, but that's because of my K&N air filter.

The diaphragms were OK when the guy was adjusting the carbs. Also the same was the situation before he diassembled them. 

OK, so you've seen the diaphragms actually move the same distance at the speed when running? Have you actually lifted the diaphragms yourself and watched them drop at the same speed when released? I ask because you said the problem existed before the carb work, yet the guy released the bike back to you after working on the carbs and not fixing the problem.

Do you have an external fuel filter? If so, was fuel flowing through it when you checked that the correct volume was coming out of the pump? Actually, there should be a filter screen in the tank, so take off any external fuel filter and see if that fixes the problem.

After all that, we can move on.

Cheers,

Glenn

Yes, gravity will work fine 

Hey Dudes,

It seems that the pump works like hell, it blow so much lifegiving liquid that I could water my garden with this pump.

Here's some pics.

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

I hear some suck-voice if I pull the throttle, but that's because of my K&N air filter.

The diaphragms were OK when the guy was adjusting the carbs. Also the same was the situation before he diassembled them. 

OK, so you've seen the diaphragms actually move the same distance at the speed when running? Have you actually lifted the diaphragms yourself and watched them drop at the same speed when released? I ask because you said the problem existed before the carb work, yet the guy released the bike back to you after working on the carbs and not fixing the problem.

Do you have an external fuel filter? If so, was fuel flowing through it when you checked that the correct volume was coming out of the pump? Actually, there should be a filter screen in the tank, so take off any external fuel filter and see if that fixes the problem.

After all that, we can move on.

Cheers,

Glenn

The guy who made it is one of the Hungarian VFR club's member and made a lot of VFR's from the club. He is a motorcycle mechanic. If there would be any problem with the diaghragms he would have said that and would not assemble back that in. I was also next to him so I saw everything. I don't think that the problem would be there. I went to him to adjust the valve clearances and carb cleaning-adjustment. I said to him that " I can't overpass 6k because the clutch slips". 

There is an external fuel filter but in the in line of the pump. If there would be any problems with that, I think I wouldn't have the proper quantity of fuel in it out line. Am I right? To make sure no problem with that, I can try to clean that. 

I've also checked the right back spark plug (just this one) and it seems OK.

If  your bike is in neutral will it rev past 6k?  

The guy who made it is one of the Hungarian VFR club's member and made a lot of VFR's from the club. He is a motorcycle mechanic. If there would be any problem with the diaghragms he would have said that and would not assemble back that in. I was also next to him so I saw everything. I don't think that the problem would be there. I went to him to adjust the valve clearances and carb cleaning-adjustment. I said to him that " I can't overpass 6k because the clutch slips". 

Hey Dudes,

It seems that the pump works like hell, it blow so much lifegiving liquid that I could water my garden with this pump.

Here's some pics.

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

I hear some suck-voice if I pull the throttle, but that's because of my K&N air filter.

The diaphragms were OK when the guy was adjusting the carbs. Also the same was the situation before he diassembled them. 

OK, so you've seen the diaphragms actually move the same distance at the speed when running? Have you actually lifted the diaphragms yourself and watched them drop at the same speed when released? I ask because you said the problem existed before the carb work, yet the guy released the bike back to you after working on the carbs and not fixing the problem.

Do you have an external fuel filter? If so, was fuel flowing through it when you checked that the correct volume was coming out of the pump? Actually, there should be a filter screen in the tank, so take off any external fuel filter and see if that fixes the problem.

After all that, we can move on.

Cheers,

Glenn

There is an external fuel filter but in the in line of the pump. If there would be any problems with that, I think I wouldn't have the proper quantity of fuel in it out line. Am I right? To make sure no problem with that, I can try to clean that. 

I've also checked the right back spark plug (just this one) and it seems OK.

Yes, that would seem to be right, BUT just because the obvious things are not working out it would be good to bypass the fuel filter completely so there is no doubt at all about it.

Are you sure your fuel line is routed to the carbs in such a way that there is no kinking or narrowing that could restrict flow? That very scenario is very common on the Triumph Trophy.

Next steps may be to run it with the fuel pump relay jumpered to ensure continuous operation. That would eliminate the possibility of a bad relay. Then if that doesn't resolve it, you may want to check the float heights.

The classic symptom of a slipping clutch is "free" revving at higher RPM in top gear. Did yours free-rev past 6000 when the clutch started slipping or did it even then not rev past 6000?

Did it ever run correctly for you? Could there be a problem that was caused by a previous owner like the cam timing being off by one tooth, maybe?

Keep us informed, please.

Cheers,

Glenn

To check the diaphragms, remove the airfilter and start the engine, al four should go up completely, when revving full trothlle.

The guy who made it is one of the Hungarian VFR club's member and made a lot of VFR's from the club. He is a motorcycle mechanic. If there would be any problem with the diaghragms he would have said that and would not assemble back that in. I was also next to him so I saw everything. I don't think that the problem would be there. I went to him to adjust the valve clearances and carb cleaning-adjustment. I said to him that " I can't overpass 6k because the clutch slips". 

Hey Dudes,

It seems that the pump works like hell, it blow so much lifegiving liquid that I could water my garden with this pump.

Here's some pics.

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

I hear some suck-voice if I pull the throttle, but that's because of my K&N air filter.

The diaphragms were OK when the guy was adjusting the carbs. Also the same was the situation before he diassembled them. 

OK, so you've seen the diaphragms actually move the same distance at the speed when running? Have you actually lifted the diaphragms yourself and watched them drop at the same speed when released? I ask because you said the problem existed before the carb work, yet the guy released the bike back to you after working on the carbs and not fixing the problem.

Do you have an external fuel filter? If so, was fuel flowing through it when you checked that the correct volume was coming out of the pump? Actually, there should be a filter screen in the tank, so take off any external fuel filter and see if that fixes the problem.

After all that, we can move on.

Cheers,

Glenn

There is an external fuel filter but in the in line of the pump. If there would be any problems with that, I think I wouldn't have the proper quantity of fuel in it out line. Am I right? To make sure no problem with that, I can try to clean that. 

I've also checked the right back spark plug (just this one) and it seems OK.

Yes, that would seem to be right, BUT just because the obvious things are not working out it would be good to bypass the fuel filter completely so there is no doubt at all about it.

Are you sure your fuel line is routed to the carbs in such a way that there is no kinking or narrowing that could restrict flow? That very scenario is very common on the Triumph Trophy.

Next steps may be to run it with the fuel pump relay jumpered to ensure continuous operation. That would eliminate the possibility of a bad relay. Then if that doesn't resolve it, you may want to check the float heights.

The classic symptom of a slipping clutch is "free" revving at higher RPM in top gear. Did yours free-rev past 6000 when the clutch started slipping or did it even then not rev past 6000?

Did it ever run correctly for you? Could there be a problem that was caused by a previous owner like the cam timing being off by one tooth, maybe?

Keep us informed, please.

Cheers,

Glenn

Will check the filter, clean or change that.

As I see no notwanted bend in the fuel lines, I think that's OK.

The rev slowly / not continuosly goes above X (lim                 X>6-7k)

                                                                          0->neverend

Didn't try it in neutral, yes that would be the next. Maybe is not the same case as it under load, but one less possible cause.

It went OK since I've bought it, I don't clearly remember when it gone this way bad, since I havne't used that so much in the past two years.

Bert, 

I will check the diaphragm pistons whether they go parallel, and complete up.

The guy who made it is one of the Hungarian VFR club's member and made a lot of VFR's from the club. He is a motorcycle mechanic. If there would be any problem with the diaghragms he would have said that and would not assemble back that in. I was also next to him so I saw everything. I don't think that the problem would be there. I went to him to adjust the valve clearances and carb cleaning-adjustment. I said to him that " I can't overpass 6k because the clutch slips". 

Hey Dudes,

It seems that the pump works like hell, it blow so much lifegiving liquid that I could water my garden with this pump.

Here's some pics.

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

I hear some suck-voice if I pull the throttle, but that's because of my K&N air filter.

The diaphragms were OK when the guy was adjusting the carbs. Also the same was the situation before he diassembled them. 

OK, so you've seen the diaphragms actually move the same distance at the speed when running? Have you actually lifted the diaphragms yourself and watched them drop at the same speed when released? I ask because you said the problem existed before the carb work, yet the guy released the bike back to you after working on the carbs and not fixing the problem.

Do you have an external fuel filter? If so, was fuel flowing through it when you checked that the correct volume was coming out of the pump? Actually, there should be a filter screen in the tank, so take off any external fuel filter and see if that fixes the problem.

After all that, we can move on.

Cheers,

Glenn

There is an external fuel filter but in the in line of the pump. If there would be any problems with that, I think I wouldn't have the proper quantity of fuel in it out line. Am I right? To make sure no problem with that, I can try to clean that. 

I've also checked the right back spark plug (just this one) and it seems OK.

Yes, that would seem to be right, BUT just because the obvious things are not working out it would be good to bypass the fuel filter completely so there is no doubt at all about it.

Are you sure your fuel line is routed to the carbs in such a way that there is no kinking or narrowing that could restrict flow? That very scenario is very common on the Triumph Trophy.

Next steps may be to run it with the fuel pump relay jumpered to ensure continuous operation. That would eliminate the possibility of a bad relay. Then if that doesn't resolve it, you may want to check the float heights.

The classic symptom of a slipping clutch is "free" revving at higher RPM in top gear. Did yours free-rev past 6000 when the clutch started slipping or did it even then not rev past 6000?

Did it ever run correctly for you? Could there be a problem that was caused by a previous owner like the cam timing being off by one tooth, maybe?

Keep us informed, please.

Cheers,

Glenn

Will check the filter, clean or change that.

As I see no notwanted bend in the fuel lines, I think that's OK.

The rev slowly / not continuosly goes above X (lim                 X>6-7k)

                                                                          0->neverend

Didn't try it in neutral, yes that would be the next. Maybe is not the same case as it under load, but one less possible cause.

It went OK since I've bought it, I don't clearly remember when it gone this way bad, since I havne't used that so much in the past two years.

Bert, 

I will check the diaphragm pistons whether they go parallel, and complete up.

 V4 mates,

I couldn't try it out today, as I've just arrived home and had time to take a look at the diaphregms. One of the carb pistons were not moving while just pulling the throttle a bit, the others were running paralelly.

I've diassembled that carb's head and reinstalled the diaphragm. There was no bent or hole on it. After the assembly it ran like the 3 others. There's a chance that it was not assembled well before. Couldn't try at higher rev that will be tomorrow. I hope that was the problem.

The question that cames into my mind whether do this have any effects on my carb synch? I may have to do that again? 

The guy who made it is one of the Hungarian VFR club's member and made a lot of VFR's from the club. He is a motorcycle mechanic. If there would be any problem with the diaghragms he would have said that and would not assemble back that in. I was also next to him so I saw everything. I don't think that the problem would be there. I went to him to adjust the valve clearances and carb cleaning-adjustment. I said to him that " I can't overpass 6k because the clutch slips". 

Hey Dudes,

It seems that the pump works like hell, it blow so much lifegiving liquid that I could water my garden with this pump.

Here's some pics.

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

I hear some suck-voice if I pull the throttle, but that's because of my K&N air filter.

The diaphragms were OK when the guy was adjusting the carbs. Also the same was the situation before he diassembled them. 

OK, so you've seen the diaphragms actually move the same distance at the speed when running? Have you actually lifted the diaphragms yourself and watched them drop at the same speed when released? I ask because you said the problem existed before the carb work, yet the guy released the bike back to you after working on the carbs and not fixing the problem.

Do you have an external fuel filter? If so, was fuel flowing through it when you checked that the correct volume was coming out of the pump? Actually, there should be a filter screen in the tank, so take off any external fuel filter and see if that fixes the problem.

After all that, we can move on.

Cheers,

Glenn

There is an external fuel filter but in the in line of the pump. If there would be any problems with that, I think I wouldn't have the proper quantity of fuel in it out line. Am I right? To make sure no problem with that, I can try to clean that. 

I've also checked the right back spark plug (just this one) and it seems OK.

Yes, that would seem to be right, BUT just because the obvious things are not working out it would be good to bypass the fuel filter completely so there is no doubt at all about it.

Are you sure your fuel line is routed to the carbs in such a way that there is no kinking or narrowing that could restrict flow? That very scenario is very common on the Triumph Trophy.

Next steps may be to run it with the fuel pump relay jumpered to ensure continuous operation. That would eliminate the possibility of a bad relay. Then if that doesn't resolve it, you may want to check the float heights.

The classic symptom of a slipping clutch is "free" revving at higher RPM in top gear. Did yours free-rev past 6000 when the clutch started slipping or did it even then not rev past 6000?

Did it ever run correctly for you? Could there be a problem that was caused by a previous owner like the cam timing being off by one tooth, maybe?

Keep us informed, please.

Cheers,

Glenn

Will check the filter, clean or change that.

As I see no notwanted bend in the fuel lines, I think that's OK.

The rev slowly / not continuosly goes above X (lim                 X>6-7k)

                                                                          0->neverend

Didn't try it in neutral, yes that would be the next. Maybe is not the same case as it under load, but one less possible cause.

It went OK since I've bought it, I don't clearly remember when it gone this way bad, since I havne't used that so much in the past two years.

Bert, 

I will check the diaphragm pistons whether they go parallel, and complete up.

 V4 mates,

I couldn't try it out today, as I've just arrived home and had time to take a look at the diaphregms. One of the carb pistons were not moving while just pulling the throttle a bit, the others were running paralelly.

I've diassembled that carb's head and reinstalled the diaphragm. There was no bent or hole on it. After the assembly it ran like the 3 others. There's a chance that it was not assembled well before. Couldn't try at higher rev that will be tomorrow. I hope that was the problem.

The question that cames into my mind whether do this have any effects on my carb synch? I may have to do that again? 

Woohoo! Congratulations! I am confident that was the problem.

Carb synch is probably OK as it is done at lower constant RPM.

Cheers,

Glenn

The guy who made it is one of the Hungarian VFR club's member and made a lot of VFR's from the club. He is a motorcycle mechanic. If there would be any problem with the diaghragms he would have said that and would not assemble back that in. I was also next to him so I saw everything. I don't think that the problem would be there. I went to him to adjust the valve clearances and carb cleaning-adjustment. I said to him that " I can't overpass 6k because the clutch slips". 

Hey Dudes,

It seems that the pump works like hell, it blow so much lifegiving liquid that I could water my garden with this pump.

Here's some pics.

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes....ltoltes.hu_.jpg

I hear some suck-voice if I pull the throttle, but that's because of my K&N air filter.

The diaphragms were OK when the guy was adjusting the carbs. Also the same was the situation before he diassembled them. 

OK, so you've seen the diaphragms actually move the same distance at the speed when running? Have you actually lifted the diaphragms yourself and watched them drop at the same speed when released? I ask because you said the problem existed before the carb work, yet the guy released the bike back to you after working on the carbs and not fixing the problem.

Do you have an external fuel filter? If so, was fuel flowing through it when you checked that the correct volume was coming out of the pump? Actually, there should be a filter screen in the tank, so take off any external fuel filter and see if that fixes the problem.

After all that, we can move on.

Cheers,

Glenn

There is an external fuel filter but in the in line of the pump. If there would be any problems with that, I think I wouldn't have the proper quantity of fuel in it out line. Am I right? To make sure no problem with that, I can try to clean that. 

I've also checked the right back spark plug (just this one) and it seems OK.

Yes, that would seem to be right, BUT just because the obvious things are not working out it would be good to bypass the fuel filter completely so there is no doubt at all about it.

Are you sure your fuel line is routed to the carbs in such a way that there is no kinking or narrowing that could restrict flow? That very scenario is very common on the Triumph Trophy.

Next steps may be to run it with the fuel pump relay jumpered to ensure continuous operation. That would eliminate the possibility of a bad relay. Then if that doesn't resolve it, you may want to check the float heights.

The classic symptom of a slipping clutch is "free" revving at higher RPM in top gear. Did yours free-rev past 6000 when the clutch started slipping or did it even then not rev past 6000?

Did it ever run correctly for you? Could there be a problem that was caused by a previous owner like the cam timing being off by one tooth, maybe?

Keep us informed, please.

Cheers,

Glenn

Will check the filter, clean or change that.

As I see no notwanted bend in the fuel lines, I think that's OK.

The rev slowly / not continuosly goes above X (lim                 X>6-7k)

                                                                          0->neverend

Didn't try it in neutral, yes that would be the next. Maybe is not the same case as it under load, but one less possible cause.

It went OK since I've bought it, I don't clearly remember when it gone this way bad, since I havne't used that so much in the past two years.

Bert, 

I will check the diaphragm pistons whether they go parallel, and complete up.

 V4 mates,

I couldn't try it out today, as I've just arrived home and had time to take a look at the diaphregms. One of the carb pistons were not moving while just pulling the throttle a bit, the others were running paralelly.

I've diassembled that carb's head and reinstalled the diaphragm. There was no bent or hole on it. After the assembly it ran like the 3 others. There's a chance that it was not assembled well before. Couldn't try at higher rev that will be tomorrow. I hope that was the problem.

The question that cames into my mind whether do this have any effects on my carb synch? I may have to do that again? 

Woohoo! Congratulations! I am confident that was the problem.

Carb synch is probably OK as it is done at lower constant RPM.

Cheers,

Glenn

Hey V4 hearted brothers!

Did you know how superb is to ride a 3rd gen? I can tell you buddies, it's awesome!

It seems that the diaphragm stuff cured the disease and the Red October is back on the road and in perfect condition! :cheerleader:   :cheerleader:   :cheerleader:   :cheerleader:

I owe you all a beer, you name the place! (please have that close to Hungary)